TomShane Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 My only question is why JetNation allowed such a whiny, defeatist article to be put on the front page. Most Jets fans are optimistic and with good reason. I guess the fact that there's no way Abraham could have played and if he did, he would have flat out sucked, has no effect on TS. We nearly made it to the AFC Championship Game next year, and now we have a better no.1 WR, a TE who can actually catch, and an OC who can actually coach. Our defense was great last year and now they have a year of playing with each other. Vilma and Coleman have more experience now as well. Is Adrian Jones a question mark? Sure. But could he do well? Absolutely. Come on JetNation, I think we can do better than that defeatist crap. We predict the Super Bowl for the Jets, J-Mac. Keep reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 and now we have a better no.1 WR, a TE who can actually catch, and an OC who can actually coach. And the Jets also have a QB who is coming off major shoulder surgery and a susceptible OLine which now will require them to hold their blocks a little longer. Could be a recipe for disaster. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 and now we have a better no.1 WR, a TE who can actually catch, and an OC who can actually coach. And the Jets also have a QB who is coming off major shoulder surgery and a susceptible OLine which now will require them to hold their blocks a little longer. Could be a recipe for disaster. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardSeymour Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 How is "the core" of this team like the 2002 team which got slapped around by Oakland?!? I know you're gonna say the QB and starting RB are the same but...... Our entire defense aside from J.Abe and Ellis is completely different and far better. Not to mention a better left guard and a better WR corps since adding McCareins. I was talking about heart, and about the deficit of heart the team (a very good one at that point) showed in 2002 against the Raiders. The LEADERSHIP of your team and the PREMIER PLAYERS are the same. Fundamentally in terms of the CORE guys this unit is an evolution of the 2002 one, not a retooled or restructured group. Mawae, Pennington, Coles (again), Martin, Ellis, Abraham.... these guys remain your cornerstone guys. Vilma, D-Rob, and Kendall may have prominent roles now, but only Vilma has really vaulted himself into the true core of your top players, D-Rob's application is on hold for now, and Kendall is very good, but not cornerstone. Bottom line: the 2002 Jets were the Pennington/Coles/Mawae/Martin Jets on offense and the Ellis/Abraham/Slow veteran LB Jets on defense. Subbing Vilma for that SVLB doesn't change this teams beating heart. A heart which beats arrythmatically, faintly, and sometimes not at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardSeymour Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 How is "the core" of this team like the 2002 team which got slapped around by Oakland?!? I know you're gonna say the QB and starting RB are the same but...... Our entire defense aside from J.Abe and Ellis is completely different and far better. Not to mention a better left guard and a better WR corps since adding McCareins. I was talking about heart, and about the deficit of heart the team (a very good one at that point) showed in 2002 against the Raiders. The LEADERSHIP of your team and the PREMIER PLAYERS are the same. Fundamentally in terms of the CORE guys this unit is an evolution of the 2002 one, not a retooled or restructured group. Mawae, Pennington, Coles (again), Martin, Ellis, Abraham.... these guys remain your cornerstone guys. Vilma, D-Rob, and Kendall may have prominent roles now, but only Vilma has really vaulted himself into the true core of your top players, D-Rob's application is on hold for now, and Kendall is very good, but not cornerstone. Bottom line: the 2002 Jets were the Pennington/Coles/Mawae/Martin Jets on offense and the Ellis/Abraham/Slow veteran LB Jets on defense. Subbing Vilma for that SVLB doesn't change this teams beating heart. A heart which beats arrythmatically, faintly, and sometimes not at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Dude, cut the stupid drama posts seymour. Vilma and YES Drob are cornerstone players. We can stop the run these days in case you haven't noticed. Add in the addition of Barton who is the teams real vocal leader along with a fresh young athletic secondary, this team has completely turned around since 02'. Hobson, Vilma, Barton Cowart, Jones, Lewis NO COMPARISON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Dude, cut the stupid drama posts seymour. Vilma and YES Drob are cornerstone players. We can stop the run these days in case you haven't noticed. Add in the addition of Barton who is the teams real vocal leader along with a fresh young athletic secondary, this team has completely turned around since 02'. Hobson, Vilma, Barton Cowart, Jones, Lewis NO COMPARISON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardSeymour Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 EB, who are the 5 cornerstones/biggest leaders on the team? By any reasonable measure 4 of 'em were front and center for 2002. Take a team like Buffalo--- THERE'S a team that has had its core retooled, for better or worse. Bledsoe/Henry/Moulds has become Losman/McGahee/Moulds. Spikes and Milloy are two of the three biggest guys on that defense, both arrived in 2003. There's nothing inherently wrong with having mostly the same core, but I don't think it's true that this Jets teams core is radically different or overhauled from the 2002 era. A few pieces have left, a few have been added, but in terms of the elite guys the song remains the same. and therefore if there was a deficit of heart and leadership in 2002 (not that the team lacked it completely, but the way they ended....) .... you do wonder where this wellspring is this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardSeymour Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 EB, who are the 5 cornerstones/biggest leaders on the team? By any reasonable measure 4 of 'em were front and center for 2002. Take a team like Buffalo--- THERE'S a team that has had its core retooled, for better or worse. Bledsoe/Henry/Moulds has become Losman/McGahee/Moulds. Spikes and Milloy are two of the three biggest guys on that defense, both arrived in 2003. There's nothing inherently wrong with having mostly the same core, but I don't think it's true that this Jets teams core is radically different or overhauled from the 2002 era. A few pieces have left, a few have been added, but in terms of the elite guys the song remains the same. and therefore if there was a deficit of heart and leadership in 2002 (not that the team lacked it completely, but the way they ended....) .... you do wonder where this wellspring is this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Bit, I'll bet you a bottle of Glenfidditch that Seymour plays in week 1 or 2, unless he's injured. the bet is as follows: One bottle of 15 year reserve Glenfiditch Scotch Whiskey to the Winner. Bit wins if Richard Seymour does not play week 1 due to hold out. RS wins if Richard Seymour plays week 1 or is out due to injury. If Seymour's contract is restructured/extended the bet is off. (my bet is predicated on him playing week 1 on his current rookie deal) Is it a bet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Bit, I'll bet you a bottle of Glenfidditch that Seymour plays in week 1 or 2, unless he's injured. the bet is as follows: One bottle of 15 year reserve Glenfiditch Scotch Whiskey to the Winner. Bit wins if Richard Seymour does not play week 1 due to hold out. RS wins if Richard Seymour plays week 1 or is out due to injury. If Seymour's contract is restructured/extended the bet is off. (my bet is predicated on him playing week 1 on his current rookie deal) Is it a bet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Bit wins if Richard Seymour does not play week 1 due to hold out. RS wins if Richard Seymour plays week 1 or is out due to injury. What happens if Seymour is not injured, dresses for the game, but BB holds him out to send a message? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Bit wins if Richard Seymour does not play week 1 due to hold out. RS wins if Richard Seymour plays week 1 or is out due to injury. What happens if Seymour is not injured, dresses for the game, but BB holds him out to send a message? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh <Synchronized snapping> Stay cooooolie, cooooool boy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh <Synchronized snapping> Stay cooooolie, cooooool boy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Biggest leaders on the team Vilma, Barton, Ellis, Chad and Mawae. I just don't consider Martin to be a leader, he never speaks out in teem meetings or in huddles from what I gather, he just leads by example. I know you're gonna say "3/5 of your leaders are leftovers from that 2002 team" I know that, but I just cannot compare or see how these 2 teams are similar. Different coaching staffs, completely different defense, different Olineman, just changed. That 2002 defense had no leader on it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Biggest leaders on the team Vilma, Barton, Ellis, Chad and Mawae. I just don't consider Martin to be a leader, he never speaks out in teem meetings or in huddles from what I gather, he just leads by example. I know you're gonna say "3/5 of your leaders are leftovers from that 2002 team" I know that, but I just cannot compare or see how these 2 teams are similar. Different coaching staffs, completely different defense, different Olineman, just changed. That 2002 defense had no leader on it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 What happens if Seymour is not injured, dresses for the game, but BB holds him out to send a message? by the limited terms of my bet (one which RS would be a fool not to accept) I would lose. Technically the second Seymour reports to camp, I would essentially lose the bet (barring only a sudden re-hold out, an unprecidented move). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 What happens if Seymour is not injured, dresses for the game, but BB holds him out to send a message? by the limited terms of my bet (one which RS would be a fool not to accept) I would lose. Technically the second Seymour reports to camp, I would essentially lose the bet (barring only a sudden re-hold out, an unprecidented move). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I just don't consider Martin to be a leader, he never speaks out in teem meetings or in huddles from what I gather, he just leads by example. So you consider "leaders" the guys with the big mouths? Trust me on this, the best leader (in anything) is one who leads by example. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I just don't consider Martin to be a leader, he never speaks out in teem meetings or in huddles from what I gather, he just leads by example. So you consider "leaders" the guys with the big mouths? Trust me on this, the best leader (in anything) is one who leads by example. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Can't this guy just go back on vacation or wherever he was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Can't this guy just go back on vacation or wherever he was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 the bet is as follows: One bottle of 15 year reserve Glenfiditch Scotch Whiskey to the Winner. Bit wins if Richard Seymour does not play week 1 due to hold out. RS wins if Richard Seymour plays week 1 or is out due to injury. If Seymour's contract is restructured/extended the bet is off. (my bet is predicated on him playing week 1 on his current rookie deal) Is it a bet? RS will get back to you after he finds a job worthy of his unlimited potential and family breeding. That or "the model" needed to use the PC. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 the bet is as follows: One bottle of 15 year reserve Glenfiditch Scotch Whiskey to the Winner. Bit wins if Richard Seymour does not play week 1 due to hold out. RS wins if Richard Seymour plays week 1 or is out due to injury. If Seymour's contract is restructured/extended the bet is off. (my bet is predicated on him playing week 1 on his current rookie deal) Is it a bet? RS will get back to you after he finds a job worthy of his unlimited potential and family breeding. That or "the model" needed to use the PC. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardSeymour Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 RS you talk a mighty big game for a guy who's namesake won't play a down for the Patriots until week 10 unless he reaches a new deal. I missed the extended version of that quote. Tell you what, I'm willing to accept the wuss out clause of "If he gets a new deal" if you're willing to accept Seymour playing in any of the first 3 games if he doesn't. A one week shot across the bow (or even a two weeker) is at least conceivable, week 10 ain't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardSeymour Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 RS you talk a mighty big game for a guy who's namesake won't play a down for the Patriots until week 10 unless he reaches a new deal. I missed the extended version of that quote. Tell you what, I'm willing to accept the wuss out clause of "If he gets a new deal" if you're willing to accept Seymour playing in any of the first 3 games if he doesn't. A one week shot across the bow (or even a two weeker) is at least conceivable, week 10 ain't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardSeymour Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 So you consider "leaders" the guys with the big mouths? Trust me on this, the best leader (in anything) is one who leads by example. :wink: Yep. Like it or not your pro-bowl rushing title future HoFer RB is a leader by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardSeymour Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 So you consider "leaders" the guys with the big mouths? Trust me on this, the best leader (in anything) is one who leads by example. :wink: Yep. Like it or not your pro-bowl rushing title future HoFer RB is a leader by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Yep. Like it or not your pro-bowl rushing title future HoFer RB is a leader by default. He's not half the leader that Vilma, Barton, Ellis, Mawae and Chad are. not even close in comparison. Being great does not make you a leader, a leader inspires his teammates and picks them up, talks them up in the huddle. Curtis doesn't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Yep. Like it or not your pro-bowl rushing title future HoFer RB is a leader by default. He's not half the leader that Vilma, Barton, Ellis, Mawae and Chad are. not even close in comparison. Being great does not make you a leader, a leader inspires his teammates and picks them up, talks them up in the huddle. Curtis doesn't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 The leaders of the Jets are Curtis, Chad and Kevin Mawae. There is a void on defense, but Ellis has stepped up, particularly late last season, and Vilma is working his way into that role. It might take until mid-season before I'd say that he was an unquestioned leader on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 The leaders of the Jets are Curtis, Chad and Kevin Mawae. There is a void on defense, but Ellis has stepped up, particularly late last season, and Vilma is working his way into that role. It might take until mid-season before I'd say that he was an unquestioned leader on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 The leaders of the Jets are Curtis, Chad and Kevin Mawae. There is a void on defense, but Ellis has stepped up, particularly late last season, and Vilma is working his way into that role. It might take until mid-season before I'd say that he was an unquestioned leader on the team. Ellis is the heart and soul of the defense-always ALWAYS giving 110%-Vilma showed signs that he could also be a leader-but since Josh Evans got hurt and then retired the Jets didn't have a leader until Shaun Ellis limped back on the field in the playoffs last year exhausted and holding his side-his ex-roomate #94 should show half the guts he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 The leaders of the Jets are Curtis, Chad and Kevin Mawae. There is a void on defense, but Ellis has stepped up, particularly late last season, and Vilma is working his way into that role. It might take until mid-season before I'd say that he was an unquestioned leader on the team. Ellis is the heart and soul of the defense-always ALWAYS giving 110%-Vilma showed signs that he could also be a leader-but since Josh Evans got hurt and then retired the Jets didn't have a leader until Shaun Ellis limped back on the field in the playoffs last year exhausted and holding his side-his ex-roomate #94 should show half the guts he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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