John Clayton on Jet QB SITUATION for 2008

[LWC611]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3151445

Kellen Clemens hasn't distinguished himself in his first opportunity to run with the starting job. At the moment, Clemens' competitor for the 2008 starting job is unknown. But the Jets face a tough decision on Chad Pennington; he is on the books for a $4.8 million salary and an escalator clause could take his salary to $6 million in 2008. Unhappy about his benching, Pennington probably will ask to be traded or released. That would leave the Jets in the market for a veteran to compete against Clemens. It could cost well over $3 million to bring in Grossman, Culpeppper or another veteran free agent, so the Jets have to decide whether they can do better than Pennington before they release him. Pennington lacks Clemens' arm strength, but he can move the chains and help a team get to the playoffs. If he sticks around, he could beat out Clemens.

He appears to be right and if this is the case I think we are in pretty bad shape. What do you think?

[NIGHT STALKER]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3151445

Kellen Clemens hasn't distinguished himself in his first opportunity to run with the starting job. At the moment, Clemens' competitor for the 2008 starting job is unknown. But the Jets face a tough decision on Chad Pennington; he is on the books for a $4.8 million salary and an escalator clause could take his salary to $6 million in 2008. Unhappy about his benching, Pennington probably will ask to be traded or released. That would leave the Jets in the market for a veteran to compete against Clemens. It could cost well over $3 million to bring in Grossman, Culpeppper or another veteran free agent, so the Jets have to decide whether they can do better than Pennington before they release him. Pennington lacks Clemens' arm strength, but he can move the chains and help a team get to the playoffs. If he sticks around, he could beat out Clemens.

He appears to be right and if this is the case I think we are in pretty bad shape. What do you think?

Yep, I basically said the same thing in another thread.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

I dont think Mangini would let Pennington stay with his current salary for next season. But at the same time I dont think Pennington would stay since hes finally healthy and wants to play now. I dont see how their gonna come to an agreement to keep Pennington here, hes definently gone. Now as far as bringing in a veteran I wouldnt mind Culpepper because he probably help Clemens out a lot with his style of play. I just dont want Grossman, hell no.

[BwanaZulia]

We don't need a $5 million dollar backup.

If KC is your guy, go sign some vet to back him up.

If KC isn't your guy, go draft your guy this year with your top 5 pick.

BZ

[NIGHT STALKER]

We don't need a $5 million dollar backup.

If KC is your guy, go sign some vet to back him up.

If KC isn't your guy, go draft your guy this year with your top 5 pick.

BZ

The thing is whether Pennington would want to stay as a backup, not us making that decision. If you listened or watched the Tannenbaum interview on the Mike and his dog show, he said the Jets could afford to keep Pennington.

[CoachTsurfing]

I really wanted Kitna and Garcia over the past few years. I don't think Chad will stay for two reasons. He wants to start and Mangini has lost confidence in him. Clemens really needs more time to evaluate if he can be a starting qb and needs some line help to do it. So either Clemens takes off next season and really starts to bloom or he will be average again and the team will win about 4- 7 games. If there is a QB in the draft this year that you feel is going to be a stud like Manning you take him.

[Barton]

We don't need a $5 million dollar backup.

If KC is your guy, go sign some vet to back him up.

If KC isn't your guy, go draft your guy this year with your top 5 pick.

BZ

The problem with that is, we started Clemens too late in 2007 to find out whether he is or is not our QB of the future. Forget everything else, that was Mangini's biggest mistake this season - not starting Clemens much earlier.

[BwanaZulia]

The problem with that is, we started Clemens too late in 2007 to find out whether he is or is not our QB of the future. Forget everything else, that was Mangini's biggest mistake this season - not starting Clemens much earlier.

That is not true. You can't see what you have in a QB in just one season. You need at least a season and a half and KC has to go into the season as the starter.

Trade away CP.

Pick up a cheap Vet.

Start KC and let it fly.

BZ

[Maxman]

We don't need a $5 million dollar backup.

If KC is your guy, go sign some vet to back him up.

If KC isn't your guy, go draft your guy this year with your top 5 pick.

BZ

I couldn't disagree more. Chad is under contract for next year, so what he wants isn't definitely what he will get. Meaning if they want to bring him back, they can.

And even if Chad and Kellen are both not the answer, no way do I see them drafting a QB with next years first round pick. If they pick 5th they have much bigger needs to fill than QB. They could improve the D Line and O Line through draft and free agency and be in much better shape (even with QB uncertainty).

[Maxman]

The problem with that is, we started Clemens too late in 2007 to find out whether he is or is not our QB of the future. Forget everything else, that was Mangini's biggest mistake this season - not starting Clemens much earlier.

Dude that is insane and you can't be serious. Kellen will have an extended look. He has done some good things, some bad. Regardless it is a terrible offense either way. They fix the line and life will be better all around.

But Kellen's problem is not that he didn't play in an extra 2 games.

[Barton]

That is not true. You can't see what you have in a QB in just one season. You need at least a season and a half and KC has to go into the season as the starter.

Trade away CP.

Pick up a cheap Vet.

Start KC and let it fly.

BZ

I agree. But over the course of 16 games, you'd have to see at least SOMETHING out of your young QB, imo. That being said, I think Clemens has shown something already. But it was still pointless to continue w/Chad for as long as Mangini did.

[afosomf]

let me say this

if EM starts CP next year, I am done with this team until EM gets canned

IF he is that stupid, there is no hope for Woody and the Jests.

[#27TheDominator]

I agree. But over the course of 16 games, you'd have to see at least SOMETHING out of your young QB, imo. That being said, I think Clemens has shown something already. But it was still pointless to continue w/Chad for as long as Mangini did.

By SOMETHING you mean the ability to be a high level starter in the NFL? I haven't seen that yet.

[Mavrik]

If we're seriously entertaining the thoughts of making Grossman or Culpepper out QB then we are in for a few years of trouble.

I'm not a Clemens fan, but I'd put him out there ahead of those two.

[JayKwaz]

I couldn't disagree more. Chad is under contract for next year, so what he wants isn't definitely what he will get. Meaning if they want to bring him back, they can.

And even if Chad and Kellen are both not the answer, no way do I see them drafting a QB with next years first round pick. If they pick 5th they have much bigger needs to fill than QB. They could improve the D Line and O Line through draft and free agency and be in much better shape (even with QB uncertainty).

I really dont like any of the first round QB's this year. I would take Andre Woodson or Erick Ainge in the second or third.

[Barton]

Dude that is insane and you can't be serious. Kellen will have an extended look. He has done some good things, some bad. Regardless it is a terrible offense either way. They fix the line and life will be better all around.

But Kellen's problem is not that he didn't play in an extra 2 games.

I'm talking like, we should have started him from week 3 and on, if not last season. So it would have been like an extra 6-12 games. Maybe we beat the Browns and Redskins if Clemens had more previous game experience. It probably means nothing a year from now, but I think the more games Clemens could have played in late 2006 and 2007, the better idea of what we'd have with him at this point. Right now, its just cloudy.

Our little playoff season in 2006 means nothing because we no longer have the same starting QB from that year. We should have spit the bit and started Clemens the last 4 games of 2006 and then all of 2007 because then we would know now if we needed to draft a QB or not in the 2008 draft. Instead we have no idea if Clemens is our QB of the future or not. I am optimistic, but I dont see anything absolutely concrete yet. We should have an answer by now but instead we will have to wait and see on Clemens until this time next year. Basically, we wasted a year here.

[drago]

If clemens isn't the guy, go after brady quinn. Cleveland will be more willing to unload him, and his salary, since they have their guy in Anderson.

[aec4]

If clemens isn't the guy, go after brady quinn. Cleveland will be more willing to unload him, and his salary, since they have their guy in Anderson.

No, they won't.

With the bonus a 1st rounder gets, it's unlikely he'll be unloaded, since the cap hit will be fairly large.

[GimmeShelter]

Dude that is insane and you can't be serious. Kellen will have an extended look. He has done some good things, some bad. Regardless it is a terrible offense either way. They fix the line and life will be better all around.

But Kellen's problem is not that he didn't play in an extra 2 games.

Agree. Barton sure pulls out all stops when it comes to having a excuse ready for why Clemens isn't setting the league on fire.

[#27TheDominator]

Agree. Barton sure pulls out all stops when it comes to having a excuse ready for why Clemens isn't setting the league on fire.

Agreed. Not only isn't he setting the league on fire, he's not setting it on luke warm either. I wouldn't believe Pennington could play this bad if I hadn't seen it with my own two eyes.

[Barton]

Agree. Barton sure pulls out all stops when it comes to having a excuse ready for why Clemens isn't setting the league on fire.

Its not about that AT ALL. The bottom line is here we SHOULD have an answer on Clemens, but we do NOT. Why? Because we waited way too long to start him. Even if he lighted it up in these games, it wouldnt give us an answer. Too small of a sample size.

[bitonti]

We don't need a $5 million dollar backup.

If KC is your guy, go sign some vet to back him up.

If KC isn't your guy, go draft your guy this year with your top 5 pick.

BZ

people forget what backup QBs cost on the open market

'some vet' could easily cost what Chad is costing.

I think they could keep him, whether he wants to be kept or not, especially if all the trade offers are lowball options. if Clemens gets hurt we'd all be psyched to have Chad on the team.

[bitonti]

Even if he lighted it up in these games, it wouldnt give us an answer. Too small of a sample size.

somehow i doubt if Clemens had 8TD and 4INt instead of the other way around we'd be having this conversation.

it's not about sample size it's about the relative youth of the player. Clemens could have played all 16 games and we still could hold out hope he's just displaying rookie (or second year) jitters.

also I think it's about optimism. We want to believe Clemens is great but maybe, just maybe he isn't. I said to posters earlier in the year who demanded Clemens, be careful what you wish for, cause you just might get it. and here we are...

[Damaged89]

I think it is still a tad bit too early to criticize Clemens for not setting the league on fire. He's had what, 5 starts? It seems his big issues are accuracy and blitz recognition- two things that can definitely be improved in the offseason. He improved dramatically from his rookie season to this year so hopefully there will be more progression.

[GimmeShelter]

Its not about that AT ALL. The bottom line is here we SHOULD have an answer on Clemens, but we do NOT. Why? Because we waited way too long to start him. Even if he lighted it up in these games, it wouldnt give us an answer. Too small of a sample size.

Possibly he wasn't ready to start before he did. Everyone should be patient with him.

If he's in a battle next TC so be it.

[Barton]

somehow i doubt if Clemens had 8TD and 4INt instead of the other way around we'd be having this conversation.

it's not about sample size it's about the relative youth of the player. Clemens could have played all 16 games and we still could hold out hope he's just displaying rookie (or second year) jitters.

also I think it's about optimism. We want to believe Clemens is great but maybe, just maybe he isn't. I said to posters earlier in the year who demanded Clemens, be careful what you wish for, cause you just might get it. and here we are...

Considering he's already won more games than Chad did this year (and doing it vs better teams), I dont regret anything. We'll probably win at least 1 more game too.

[BwanaZulia]

people forget what backup QBs cost on the open market

'some vet' could easily cost what Chad is costing.

I think they could keep him, whether he wants to be kept or not, especially if all the trade offers are lowball options. if Clemens gets hurt we'd all be psyched to have Chad on the team.

I agree that if there is no offer good enough (4th or above) and if there is nobody out there worth it, Chad is a good option to back up Kellen.

If he doesn't want to earn the $5 million to sit on the bench, he can work his own story.

I really like Chad, but his time to be the leader of this team has passed. It is time for KC get a shot.

BZ

[SouthernJet]

We don't need a $5 million dollar backup.

If KC is your guy, go sign some vet to back him up.

If KC isn't your guy, go draft your guy this year with your top 5 pick.

BZ

agree bz,,its a nobrainer,,we cant put chad back in now,,too late,,

KC / vet backup or draft a QB..

tradeup for matt ryan if the pick 2nd option

[BwanaZulia]

agree bz,,its a nobrainer,,we cant put chad back in now,,too late,,

KC / vet backup or draft a QB..

tradeup for matt ryan if the pick 2nd option

Don't agree with me. It makes my brain explode!

BZ

[BP]

Don't agree with me. It makes my brain explode!

BZ

[Jetfan13]

Considering he's already won more games than Chad did this year (and doing it vs better teams), I dont regret anything. We'll probably win at least 1 more game too.

you are such a knucklehead...they both beat the Dolphins and if you think Clemens won the Steeler game then whatever credibility you once had (none) is truly gone now

btw, it amazes me how you bash anything not named Clemens both still use Barton as your avatar...makes me wonder...

[BwanaZulia]

Good call BP!

The minute I typed that, I thought about those sigs.

Someone should post all 5 in a little series for viewing!

BZ

[BP]

Good call BP!

The minute I typed that, I thought about those sigs.

Someone should post all 5 in a little series for viewing!

BZ

How's this?

sorry for the hijack.

That was pretty much what happened, the board switched to the new software, and BZ got his sig blocking. So for a wee laugh I did this one:

The main thing was "How long before he notices?" because he wouldn't see it.

It took him a month.

Then he switched to a slightly new avatar, with lightning and stuff, so I decided to try again, with this one:

He was picking up much quicker, only took him a week.

To be honest, that would have been it, but I was approached by another member who asked to see his head explode, which coincided with the time TX had said he was going to be nice (Like that lasted long)

And then the award celebration.

The thing is, he no longer posts here, and I do feel a little guilty, so if the sigs are contributing, I'll happily stop it.

[SouthernJet]

Don't agree with me. It makes my brain explode!

BZ

hey,,,

u have actually always been one of my favorite posters,,

[Barton]

you are such a knucklehead...they both beat the Dolphins and if you think Clemens won the Steeler game then whatever credibility you once had (none) is truly gone now

btw, it amazes me how you bash anything not named Clemens both still use Barton as your avatar...makes me wonder...

Here's the thing about the Steelers game: Clemens didnt throw a pick six to end the game on the final drive (like Chad). He drove the team down the field and tied it up. I know it is hard for you to take, but Clemens has been an upgrade over Chad.