Bryan Thomas the enigma

[stormshadow19]

Hey Bit... didn't they try and convert BT to DT, like they did with Ellis?

[Barton]

Bit, would you agree that Bryan Thomas has packed on too much weight/muscle and is not nearly as quick rushing the passer as he was in college??

[bitonti]

storm they didn't DT convert, they played him as a pass rushing DT on obvious passing downs when the defense would be in nickel or dime packages. This is different then what they tried with Ellis, which was to try and make him an every down DT.

He played well in that role but never had the stat sheer impact.

Incidentally I feel Shaun Cody for the Lions could be a similar type of player, excelling as a 4-3 DE but horrible as a DT.

==

EB to be honest Thomas needed that weight, he was undernourished and small coming out. He isn't going to ever be the pure speed rusher that Abe is but he can still bring it. Also he is tougher in the run game this way.

This player is alot like Ellis in the sense that he has had alot of near misses that would have shown up in the stat sheet - but in terms of stats you don't see, like QB hurries, knockdowns, BT is a great contributor. The sacks will come - whether they come with this team is another story... but he is what he is and that's not a bust.

[Barton]

Lets say the Jets stupidly sign John Abraham to a long term deal this offseason

Bit, would you consider asking BT to drop down to 250 and play some outside linebacker in a 3-4?

[PatsFanTX]

but in terms of stats you don't see, like QB hurries, knockdowns, BT is a great contributor.

That is exactly way DLineman stats are meaningless.

If a DE or DT is getting great pressure and forcing the QB to release the ball earlier than he wants, then he is doing a great job.

Richard Seymour is another example of a player who will never put up big stat numbers. But do you think opposing offenses feel his presence on the football field? You bet.

Like I said earlier, I think Thomas will have a very good year.

[Jetlag]

That is exactly way DLineman stats are meaningless.

If a DE or DT is getting great pressure and forcing the QB to release the ball earlier than he wants, then he is doing a great job.

Richard Seymour is another example of a player who will never put up big stat numbers. But do you think opposing offenses feel his presence on the football field? You bet.

Like I said earlier, I think Thomas will have a very good year.

HAHA! When have you ever been known to give credit to an unproductive Jet or a Jet period???

I can read between the lines. Matt he's just scared of you. Good work. :wink:

[bitonti]

actually i agree 100% with Tex on many issues, this is one of em - Seymour will certainly be missed when he holds out for 10 weeks.

[PatsFanTX]

HAHA! When have you ever been known to give credit to an unproductive Jet

So lag, you weren't pleased with Thomas' play coming down the stretch last season?

Sure, it was just for a few weeks but if he carries that type of play over to this season, he will have a very good year.

And BTW, I always give credit where credit is due regarding the Jets. :wink:

[Jetlag]

I'm still on the fence about the BT bust title. So I wouldn't label him one yet but if he see's quality time this season and can't perform above average then I might start leaning towards the "B" word. His biggest problem in the time he has seen is his lack of consistency. Also he'll never be the type of guy to take over a game. This will be a big season for BT.

Overall a this point with the limited time he's seen he's done well enough to prove that he's the potential to be a good ball player.

[BlackLabelJetsFan]

The way I see BT is that I don't think he'll ever perform at a high enough level to make him worthy of a 1st round pick.

That said, I think he can be a consistant third DE in this defense, and do all the things that, as Bitonti said, DON'T show up in the stat sheets. He did come on in the 2nd half of the season, and I think he can be a solid to very good contributor this year.

[sirlancemehlot]

The way I see BT is that I don't think he'll ever perform at a high enough level to make him worthy of a 1st round pick.

That said, I think he can be a consistant third DE in this defense, and do all the things that, as Bitonti said, DON'T show up in the stat sheets..

Thing is, you could have said the same thing about Rick Lyle back in the day. He played for a ham sandwich and a six pack. And that was for the season. (note: I'm not sure if his contract had a beef jerky incentive clause, so I may be lowballing a bit.)

[Bugg]

I've kinda come around to Bit's way of thinking. Thomas will never be a superstar, but he can be a solid contributor and evena starter in a rotation. His first year was an embarrassment. But since then he's been reasonably solid if unspectacular. The problem is that people bring up Ed Reed and also compare him to Abraham. And he'll never measure up to either through no fault of his own.

[Preston Howley III]

Bryan Thomas is the result of piss poor management. If he had went to a program that actually knew what it was doing when he got there, his development would have been better. He had no foundation when he got here. Think about it, your coach is Herm Edwards, your teammates are Mo Lewis and John Abraham, your line coach is Ruben Carter....

[PatsFanTX]

Think about it, your coach is Herm Edwards, your teammates are Mo Lewis and John Abraham, your line coach is Ruben Carter....

Absolute classic!

[Preston Howley III]

...And the Center beats you up in practice.

[Preston Howley III]

Damn.

Three pages long... then I killed it.

[MiamiJet]

Bit and I both know how each feels about Bryan Thomas. We'll always disagree, and that's ok.

I still feel he's a bust. Considering he was drafted in the first round, and as a possible replacement for John Abraham, he has disappointed greatly. Were he drafted in round 4 or later, I'd have no problem, but to be drafted as high as he was, and drafted for the purpose he was, he is a bust.

Now, I could also understand Bit's argument, because Thomas did not have the expectations or glory that other players had coming into the draft. Terry did, imho, reach in drafting Thomas, at least in round 1. Was Thomas that highly touted coimg out of college? I don't think so, from what I remember from the player profiles, etc but Bit is far more knowlegeable in that aspect than I. Alex Brown and Charles Grant were drafted after Thomas, and each has improved his play. Each has also endured alot of turnover on their D lines and questionable coaching.

The problem I have with the Thomas pick was that safety and cornerback were greater needs. Sure, Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown had their struggles, but again, they also improved, to the point of making the Pro Bowl. If I were able to see more improvement from Thomas, I'd change my mind, but he has had 18 game starts in his career between 2003-2004 and plays on a line with a Pro Bowler and future Pro Bowler. I expect more than hurries.

Now, I understand that he was not provided with a good coaching staff, and yet, Abraham and Ellis played under these same coaches and produced.

Both made Pro Bowls, with Ellis earing a Pro Bowl berth in 2003. Yes the same 2003 when Thomas started 10 games and did little. The same Ellis that was double teamed, allowing Thomas to line up one on one on his tackle.

Even if you want to argue about his rookie year, and 2003, last year is hard to argue against. DRob came into his own, with Ellis and Ferguson palying at high levels, and Thomas, outside of the Baltimore game, did jack. Yes, he had 6 more starts, with Abe missing time and what did he do? Nothing.

Again, all anyone can tell me is that he hurries the qb, has a good motor, plays the run well, blah blah blah. I understand that there are parts of the game that are never accounted for in a stat line, but Thomas still cannot do what matters most, and that is bring the qb down.

Go ahead and tell me that a hurry is just as good as a sack and I will tend to agree. There are also times that you need to bring his ass down, especially when a team is within field goal range and you need to push them back. Thomas can't provide that for us. Despite a bltizing, attacking defense, and coaching from Denny Marcin, Thomas has still shown little improvement. I've seen other DE's around the league improve, guys like Alex Brown and Charles Grant, two DE's that were drafted AFTER Thomas.

[Preston Howley III]

The problem I have with the Thomas pick was that safety and cornerback were greater needs.

I thought linebacker was a bigger need. Napoleon Harris was grabbed by the Raiders right after the Jets picked The Birmingham Brawler.

[MiamiJet]

So after that long ass post, that's all you could pcik at?

Linebacker was also a need, but Lewis and Jones played well in 2001. We made the Playoffs the year before with both playing well, and we also had James Farrior. After losing him, we brought in Cotrell's man Cowart, busted Achilles and all....

I liked Harris, and would have loved to have him, but imho, Saftey was a HUGE need. Robinson stunk up the joint, and his rifle incident didn't play off too well.

Corner was an area I screamed for, but when Terry picked up Abraham, I felt more at ease.

Imho, I did not think we needed a DE. Yes, Abe became more unreliable, going down in 2000 and 2001, but I still didn't think we should have gone after Thomas, not at that position. Round 2, or after, ok, but not with Ed Reed sitting there.

To sum up my problem with the pick, I know hindsight is 20/20, but Reed was simply the better player, in a position of serious need. When you have a pressing need, you take care of that need first, with the best possible cure. DE was down our list of priorities. The thing is, there were other DE's available that we could have had. There was depth at DE. At safety, there was Reed, and then some also rans. Pig Prather? Lamont Thompson(ok, maybe) Ramon Walker? Jon Glass Jaw McGraw?

Terry would have been wise to select the position of higher need. Which would you rather have? Ed Reed/Alex Brown or BT/Glass Jaw?

[Preston Howley III]

Imho, I did not think we needed a DE.

The only expalanation I could come up with, is Herm actually thought his experiment with Shawn Ellis was a success. Then I thought maybe they were planning to put Abraham back at linebacker, but of course, they didn't.

And then for some strange reason, I thought of Blair Thomas.