Green Jets & Ham Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Three times dingers O has squared off with bellies D In those three games dingers O scored a combined total of 68 Pts That is an average of nearly 22.6 PPG in three games In other words, during an era in which BB's defense has confounded the entire NFL ... as well has Peyton Manning and the high flying Colts ... dingers O has had no such problems with the vaunted BB schemes I have yet to do an extensive study, but I'd wager a nice chuck of change that no other OC in the entire league can match or exceed dingers 22.6 PPG average over a 3+ Game span verses the BB defense The three games break down as follows ... 24, 30 and 14 ... those are the three totals dinger has hung on the Patriots since 2002 when he first matched wits with Belichick Now compare that to our former OC ... he who will remain nameless, fore I dare not speak his name In his 10 encounters with BB since 2000, he who will remain nameless has watched his offense {our offense} average 16 PPG verses the BB defense So under CAN'T HACKETT ... Okay, I had to mention his name ... our offense averaged 16 PPG verses Belichick's defense, whereas dinger has averaged a TD more PG {22.6} verses BB HOWEVER!! If you eliminate 2000 {Belichick's first year in NE} when the Patriots were 5-11 and BB was just beginning to shape their team in his image, and start measuring CAN'T HACKETT Vs BB beginning in 2001 when the Patriots had turned the corner, the gap between dinger {who first met BB in 2002, so it's fair to eliminate 2000} and CAN'T HACKETT gets far more staggering Over that period, 2001-2004, a total of 8 encounters with Belichick, CAN'T HACKETT'S offense averaged a putrid 13.6 Pts PG DINGER Vs BB since 2002 = 22.6 Pts PG CAN'T Vs BB since 2001 = 13.6 Pts PG So following BB's initial season when the Patriots were still a bad football team, dingers O has averaged a full 10 PPG more than Cant Hackett's O verses Belichick's defense And dig this ... I'm actually being generous to CAN'T because I believe further research will show that at least one of our touchdowns during that time span was scored by the defense and/or special teams ... so his PPG average is probably closer to 10 than it is to 13 Anyhow, not that these stats are telling Jet fans anything they didn't already know about CAN'T ... obviously there is barely a Jet fan to be found who didn't already know that CAN'T was a JOKE ... but I did want to point out that we are now in GOOD HANDS with the dinger And more importantly, we are in GOOD HANDS with the dinger verses BB as well ... and there aren't many OC's in the NFL who can SAY THAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 7 ppg is a HUGE turn around for the Jets. Let's hope it all clicks and things continue like that. I know I will have much more confidence in Dinger making half time adjustments than I did in Hackett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted July 28, 2005 Author Share Posted July 28, 2005 Here's what this all means in plain english BB's defensive schemes verses the Jets offensive schemes is no-longer a strategic mismatch Gone are the days when our OC was severely out-witted In that regard, we are now on a far more level playing field from a strategic POV with DINGER Vs BB as opposed to BB Vs a headpiece filled with straw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Here's what this all means in plain english BB's defensive schemes verses the Jets offensive schemes is no-longer a strategic mismatch Gone are the days when our OC was severely out-witted In that regard, we are now on a far more level playing field from a strategic POV with DINGER Vs BB as opposed to BB Vs a headpiece filled with straw Pretty cool when you factor in the loss of Charlie W and Donnie H being in his second year. Certainly is a nice turn around. The Jets have question marks. But everyone has question marks. The Pats won the Superbowl with no corners. I finally feel like the Jets have the staff in place that can really get things done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Ham, I don't know what I'm going to do when the Jets actually throw a pass this year where the receiver catches it in stride with a chance to make a play with the ball. I don't know what I'll do when third and nine comes up and I don't just head to the fridge because I know a draw is coming. The Dinger factor is HUGE here. Now, if Herm can keep his nose out of his business is another question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 i'll miss those draw plays on 3rd and long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Hey don't knock those Draw plays!! They were the Bread and Butter of a certain Player!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonJet Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 i'll miss those draw plays on 3rd and long And the 6 yard passes on 3rd and 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Hey don't knock those Draw plays!! They were the Bread and Butter of a certain Player!! Tsk, Tsk Sav. In an effort to expand upon your own agenda, you have broken your own cardinal rule of "keeping it real" and purporting only "facts" Sav-Want to know the 2004 splits? Martin on carries when the down was 3rd and 6 or longer-6 carries for 58 yards. Lamont jordan, in those same situations- 7 carries for 35 yards. Sorry to call you out Sav, but you are slipping. Sorry to bring facts to your little agenda party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Not for nothin' folks - but the QB in Tennessee was Stave McNair - a scrambler. The Jets do not. The Pats D is systematic and processed - when a "scrambler" improvises the Pats D must react to the situation (and they are the best situational team out there) but they must adjust and they no longer "control" the situation. McNair drove that offense. Can Penny drive as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Tsk, Tsk Sav. In an effort to expand upon your own agenda, you have broken your own cardinal rule of "keeping it real" and purporting only "facts" Sav-Want to know the 2004 splits? Martin on carries when the down was 3rd and 6 or longer-6 carries for 58 yards. Lamont jordan, in those same situations- 7 carries for 35 yards. Sorry to call you out Sav, but you are slipping. Sorry to bring facts to your little agenda party Scottie how about a link from where you got that info?? Also better run over to the JI Board they have Houston getting 10 TD's this season!! Cumar needs your Help!! And when 1 player has over 370 carries and the OC is in love with him I have a bit of trouble seeing those Stats! How about 03 Jordan 4 td's on 46 carries Martin 2 on 323 carries! I'll be waiting for that Link!! Mine is on NFL.com! PS Lets put that stat if it's real for the 4 years Hackett was here and see how that shakes out! I didn't say bread and Butter of just 04 now did I?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor99 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Can Penny drive as well? Of course, he has a '89 Cutlass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 BB's defensive schemes verses the Jets offensive schemes is no-longer a strategic mismatch Come on Hammer, as long as PennyBoy has that "deer-in-the-headlights" look every time he lines up ugainst the Pats, BB and company will always have a strategic mismatch. And to compare what Dinger did with the Titans personnel he had to what you "THINK" he can do with the Jets personnel is ludicrous at best. Players play the games on the field, not offensive coordinators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Scottie how about a link from where you got that info?? Also better run over to the JI Board they have Houston getting 10 TD's this season!! Cumar needs your Help!! And when 1 player has over 370 carries and the OC is in love with him I have a bit of trouble seeing those Stats! How about 03 Jordan 4 td's on 46 carries Martin 2 on 323 carries! I'll be waiting for that Link!! Mine is on NFL.com! PS Lets put that stat if it's real for the 4 years Hackett was here and see how that shakes out! I didn't say bread and Butter of just 04 now did I?? Sav-ESPN.com go to "player splits". Why would I care about Houston? All I am doing, is exactly what you do-Telling people to show the facts in theface of an opinion. I shot yours down. Don't be a "Jordanaire" and try to dance around it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Sav-ESPN.com go to "player splits". Why would I care about Houston? All I am doing, is exactly what you do-Telling people to show the facts in theface of an opinion. I shot yours down. Don't be a "Jordanaire" and try to dance around it So your saying that in 4 years that Jordan has been on the Team he has got more draw plays then Martin?? Note to thickheaded Scottie!!I said bread and butter play not anything about 04..Why must you Martinette's always cloud the Truth?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 i'll miss those draw plays on 3rd and long And the 6 yard passes on 3rd and 9. There were times hackett seemed to call plays like running his offense took precedence over moving the ball and scoring, as if the 1st down marker didn't matter as long as he got to run one of his swing passes short of thr stick or a draw. Heimerdinger has to be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 In his 10 encounters with BB since 2000, he who will remain nameless has watched his offense {our offense} average 16 PPG verses the BB defense and If you eliminate 2000 Hackett was the offensive coordinator from 2001-2004. He wasn't the coordinator in 2000, and has only faced the Pats as Jets OC 8 times.... so your eliminating of 2000 should have happened from the beginning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Sav- In 2003 Martin had 6 carries in thesituation of 3rd and 6+ for 33 yards. In 2002 , same situation 6 carries for 27 yards Yup. "bread and butter" in those impossible 3rd and long give ups, huh? He really padded those stats. Or, are tyou saying the Jets should not run any drw plays at all? Or is it that 19 draw plays in 3 years in a sit of 3rd and 6 or longer is padding stats? Which is it? It is ok to say you were incorrect in an opinion you "thought" to be tyrue. Admitting that you didn't realize something will not turn you into a pillar of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Sav- In 2003 Martin had 6 carries in thesituation of 3rd and 6+ for 33 yards. In 2002 , same situation 6 carries for 27 yards Yup. "bread and butter" in those impossible 3rd and long give ups, huh? He really padded those stats. Or, are tyou saying the Jets should not run any drw plays at all? Or is it that 19 draw plays in 3 years in a sit of 3rd and 6 or longer is padding stats? Which is it? It is ok to say you were incorrect in an opinion you "thought" to be tyrue. Admitting that you didn't realize something will not turn you into a pillar of salt. Scottie your making no sense?? Are you saying just 3rd downs of 6 or longer?? I said Draw plays period! I never said 04 or 3rd down did I..Now If Lamont had more Draw Plays in his 4 years on the Jets I'll say I was wrong and Donate 100 bucks to the Charity of your Choice and the same goes for you!! Just Draw plays now not if the sun was shining on seat 213 or whatever little trick you try..Your saying Lamont Jordan has got more Draw Plays in his 4 years on the Jets then Martin!! Are we on?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Scottie your making no sense?? Are you saying just 3rd downs of 6 or longer?? I said Draw plays period! I never said 04 or 3rd down did I..Now If Lamont had more Draw Plays in his 4 years on the Jets I'll say I was wrong and Donate 100 bucks to the Charity of your Choice and the same goes for you!! Just Draw plays now not if the sun was shining on seat 213 or whatever little trick you try..Your saying Lamont Jordan has got more Draw Plays in his 4 years on the Jets then Martin!! Are we on?? So, you are saying the draw play is a play that should be stricken from the Jet playbook, Gotcha. I don't agree. I thought you were just saying that Martin "compiled" stats on impossible 3rd down draws that had no chance of working. Me, I think draw plays work well for Martin. I don't like them when they are a give up play on a drive, (namely 3rd down), but I think I have proven that the Jets didn't to that a whole lot. You, of course, are entitled to your opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjets Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 youll still find something to complain about!! :wink: Ham, I don't know what I'm going to do when the Jets actually throw a pass this year where the receiver catches it in stride with a chance to make a play with the ball. I don't know what I'll do when third and nine comes up and I don't just head to the fridge because I know a draw is coming. The Dinger factor is HUGE here. Now, if Herm can keep his nose out of his business is another question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 So, you are saying the draw play is a play that should be stricken from the Jet playbook, Gotcha. I don't agree. I thought you were just saying that Martin "compiled" stats on impossible 3rd down draws that had no chance of working. Me, I think draw plays work well for Martin. I don't like them when they are a give up play on a drive, (namely 3rd down), but I think I have proven that the Jets didn't to that a whole lot. You, of course, are entitled to your opinion Here is my exact post!! "Hey don't knock those Draw plays!! They were the Bread and Butter of a certain Player!!" I never said anything about 3rd down or 04..Nor did I say the draw play should be stricken from any playbook..And since you say draw plays work well for Martin wouldn't me saying their his Bread and Butter be in agreement with your belief?? Don't pick fights you can't Win Scottie..And had you stuck to the Facts as I do you wouldn't make silly posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjets Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Here is my exact post!! "Hey don't knock those Draw plays!! They were the Bread and Butter of a certain Player!!" I never said anything about 3rd down or 04..Nor did I say the draw play should be stricken from any playbook..And since you say draw plays work well for Martin wouldn't me saying their his Bread and Butter be in agreement with your belief?? Don't pick fights you can't Win Scottie..And had you stuck to the Facts as I do you wouldn't make silly posts! maybe everyone jumps on ya because youre always bashin martin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Sav-Please-Exactly what FACTS have you provided. All you have done is furthered your agenda. Show me ONE fact you have stated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Sav-Please-Exactly what FACTS have you provided. All you have done is furthered your agenda. Show me ONE fact you have stated Facts about what?? All I said was the Draw Play was a Bread and Butter play of a certain player..Which you agreed was a good play for Martin!! It's not up to me to provide any facts! I said Martin has got more Draw plays then Jordan period..If Jordan had more show me!! PS here's fact I stated..03 Jordan 4 TD's Martin 2..Hows that?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 maybe everyone jumps on ya because youre always bashin martin... Really?? Show me 1 post where I have bashed Martin! I have always said he's a very good back! What pisses people off is I don't say he's the Best Back the Jets ever had!! I never start threads about Martin,I just point out facts instead of making excuses! I'll do the same thing for you I did for Scottie! 100 bucks to your favorite Charity if you can find 1 post anywhere where I bash him!! Saying he has never scored a TD in the Playoffs since Hermie's has been the Coach is NOT a Bash It's called a Fact! We on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Not for nothin' folks - but the QB in Tennessee was Stave McNair - a scrambler. The Jets do not. The Pats D is systematic and processed - when a "scrambler" improvises the Pats D must react to the situation (and they are the best situational team out there) but they must adjust and they no longer "control" the situation. McNair drove that offense. Can Penny drive as well? Steve McNair hasn't been a 'scrambler' for three years. At least not to the point where DC's have to adjust their defenses to account for it. Come on Hammer, as long as PennyBoy has that "deer-in-the-headlights" look every time he lines up ugainst the Pats, BB and company will always have a strategic mismatch. And to compare what Dinger did with the Titans personnel he had to what you "THINK" he can do with the Jets personnel is ludicrous at best. Players play the games on the field, not offensive coordinators. The great Titans personnel? Like Eddie George, Billy Volek and Drew Bennett? Or a crippled Steve McNair? And the back-up starter of the day at RB filling in for Chris Brown? Dinger will have the best overall group of offensive personnel that he's ever had here in NY. The obvious dropoff is at the QB spot, where McNair was special and Penny is, well, not special. BUT if Dinger can light a fire under Penny's ass, this offense has a chance to be one of the top units in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Facts about what?? All I said was the Draw Play was a Bread and Butter play of a certain player..Which you agreed was a good play for Martin!! It's not up to me to provide any facts! I said Martin has got more Draw plays then Jordan period..If Jordan had more show me!! PS here's fact I stated..03 Jordan 4 TD's Martin 2..Hows that?? Sav-It is ok to have an opinion that is incorrect. You are human. I fail to see how Jordan having more TD's in 03 pertains to draw plays. Here is what I assumed-You said "The draw plays was Bread and butter" for a certain back. Am I to assume that you mean that he compiled "garbage yards" as the point of your comment? Or is the problem here, you don't know what your point is, or have the ability to back it up? Again, what was your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Steve McNair hasn't been a 'scrambler' for three years. At least not to the point where DC's have to adjust their defenses to account for it. The great Titans personnel? Like Eddie George, Billy Volek and Drew Bennett? Or a crippled Steve McNair? And the back-up starter of the day at RB filling in for Chris Brown? Dinger will have the best overall group of offensive personnel that he's ever had here in NY. The obvious dropoff is at the QB spot, where McNair was special and Penny is, well, not special. BUT if Dinger can light a fire under Penny's a$$, this offense has a chance to be one of the top units in the league. Good points TS..Penny has everything one could want in a QB except for the Cannon right Arm!! But a 22 can still kill you if used correctly which I think Dinger will do!! :wink: (Ok He's not a Runner either but how many QB's run like McNabb or Vick??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Watch some of McNair's play the last three years - busted plays, breaking tackles, etc - and get back to me Tommy boy. Interesting - I think this is why BB hired that Flutie Flake migdet. To practice against a "scrambler." A close look at the Pats schedule shows a significant amount of teams that have QB's that can be considered "scramblers." You know, I suspect that the Jets may be one of those teams. What are the chances that Penny will ne healthy for the first Pats/Jets game on Dec 6th? Steve McNair hasn't been a 'scrambler' for three years. At least not to the point where DC's have to adjust their defenses to account for it. The great Titans personnel? Like Eddie George, Billy Volek and Drew Bennett? Or a crippled Steve McNair? And the back-up starter of the day at RB filling in for Chris Brown? Dinger will have the best overall group of offensive personnel that he's ever had here in NY. The obvious dropoff is at the QB spot, where McNair was special and Penny is, well, not special. BUT if Dinger can light a fire under Penny's a$$, this offense has a chance to be one of the top units in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Watch some of McNair's play the last three years - busted plays, breaking tackles, etc - and get back to me Tommy boy. Interesting - I think this is why BB hired that Flutie Flake migdet. To practice against a "scrambler." A close look at the Pats schedule shows a significant amount of teams that have QB's that can be considered "scramblers." You know, I suspect that the Jets may be one of those teams. What are the chances that Penny will ne healthy for the first Pats/Jets game on Dec 6th? 900% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 What are the chances that Penny will ne healthy for the first Pats/Jets game on Dec 6th? Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Sav-It is ok to have an opinion that is incorrect. You are human. I fail to see how Jordan having more TD's in 03 pertains to draw plays. Here is what I assumed-You said "The draw plays was Bread and butter" for a certain back. Am I to assume that you mean that he compiled "garbage yards" as the point of your comment? Or is the problem here, you don't know what your point is, or have the ability to back it up? Again, what was your point? Scottie you have no sense of Humor!! It was you that picked on my post which was meant to be funny! Now show me where I said Garbage yds?? That's a Term Martinette's use to describe Jordan's yd's is it not? According to the Martinette's Martin can't get Garbage yd's because he's the starter!! And you said "Show me 1 fact you have posted..Thus the 4 td's vs 2 Td's..That in 03 was a Fact!! You don't need me for this argument your doing fine by your self assuming things I never even said!! And the point was Hackett was known for the Draw play was he not?? And it's my belief that Martin had more Draw plays then Jordan in the 4 yr's Jordan was a Jet..It's that simple!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Scottie you have no sense of Humor!! It was you that picked on my post which was meant to be funny! Now show me where I said Garbage yds?? That's a Term Martinette's use to describe Jordan's yd's is it not? According to the Martinette's Martin can't get Garbage yd's because he's the starter!! And you said "Show me 1 fact you have posted..Thus the 4 td's vs 2 Td's..That in 03 was a Fact!! You don't need me for this argument your doing fine by your self assuming things I never even said!! And the point was Hackett was known for the Draw play was he not?? And it's my belief that Martin had more Draw plays then Jordan in the 4 yr's Jordan was a Jet..It's that simple!! Ok, I accept that you didn't have a point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Ok, I accept that you didn't have a point My point Scottie was Martin loves the Draw Play just like you say he does!! Quick go back and erase the part where you say he does well with it!! Is it a easy way to compile yardage?? Yeah I guess it would be..Thanks for pointing that out with your Garbage time theory!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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