Dinger/Can't Vs BB

[Barton]

Not to mention the patsys defense has taken a step back since Dinger faced off with them, with the losses of Ty Law, Bruschi, Ted Johnson, Phifer and Washington.

Dinger and the Jets O should be able to hang at least 25 on that D in foxboro. Heart and Soul of that defense is gone when Teddy Bruschi announced he wont play this season. Monty Beisel is headed for a spot in Canton, but I dont think he can fully replace Bruschi.

[Barton]

Hey don't knock those Draw plays!! They

were the Bread and Butter of a certain Player!!

And how about all those times when it was 3rd and 3, the defense knew what was coming, Hackett called a draw play to Martin and Martin got tackled 2 or 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage! That obviously couldnt have helped out Martins rushing total and YPC!

That happened more often than Curtis gaining 9 yards on a 3rd and 20 draw play. Be fair here Savage, Hacketts draw play did not make Martins season. Gimme a break.

[Savage69]

And how about all those times when it was 3rd and 3, the defense knew what was coming, Hackett called a draw play to Martin and Martin got tackled 2 or 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage! That obviously couldnt have helped out Martins rushing total and YPC!

That happened more often than Curtis gaining 9 yards on a 3rd and 20 draw play. Be fair here Savage, Hacketts draw play did not make Martins season. Gimme a break.

Hey Scottie is the one that said Martin does well

with the Draw Play!! According to him Hackett called

more Draw plays with Jordan last year then Martin!

Tell you what though..If you took just 1 carry Draw

or not away from Cumar does he win the Rushing Title??

[Scott Dierking]

Hey Scottie is the one that said Martin does well

with the Draw Play!! According to him Hackett called

more Draw plays with Jordan last year then Martin!

Tell you what though..If you took just 1 carry Draw

or not away from Cumar does he win the Rushing Title??

Sav-n't resort to making things up just to backpedal your way out of something you can't defend with facts-

Show me where I said Martin had less draw plays than Jordan.

Show me where.

Man, stick to teh truth, will ya

[Garb]

Ted Johnson retiring today all but ensures that Roman Phifer will be re-signed. Still, Phifer's area of expertise was coverage, not run stuffing -which was T. Johnson's forte - just ask Jerome Bettis.

Not to mention the patsys defense has taken a step back since Dinger faced off with them, with the losses of Ty Law, Bruschi, Ted Johnson, Phifer and Washington.

Dinger and the Jets O should be able to hang at least 25 on that D in foxboro. Heart and Soul of that defense is gone when Teddy Bruschi announced he wont play this season. Monty Beisel is headed for a spot in Canton, but I dont think he can fully replace Bruschi.

[SoFlaJets]

Ted Johnson retiring today all but ensures that Roman Phifer will be re-signed. Still, Phifer's area of expertise was coverage, not run stuffing -which was T. Johnson's forte - just ask Jerome Bettis.

whoa wait a minute Garb,Phifer had been playing on the D-line not LBer-he had become too slow-did he get younger and faster somehow?If he is the relacement backer for either Ted I feel even more confident abbout MY team's chances against yours.

[Garb]

Have you watched a Pats game? Have you seen the way the defensive alignments changed on almost every down? Roman at the line, Roman drops into coverage, Roman tackles the TE..... Trust me - Ted was the MLB run-stuffer -sitting behind Wilfork or Traylor- waiting for clean-up duty. Roman was a lb/de who was used more for pass coverage. I know my Patsies, dude.

Anyway, this leaves question marks for MLB. Beisel - who knows - hope he's the answer.

whoa wait a minute Garb,Phifer had been playing on the D-line not LBer-he had become too slow-did he get younger and faster somehow?If he is the relacement backer for either Ted I feel even more confident abbout MY team's chances against yours.

[PatsFanTX]

Not to mention the patsys defense has taken a step back since Dinger faced off with them, with the losses of Ty Law, Bruschi, Ted Johnson, Phifer and Washington.

Washington?

He's been gone for 2 friggn' years.

[Barton]

Washington?

He's been gone for 2 friggn' years.

I know that tx. But Dinger faced off against Big Ted in the middle for all of the games the titans have faced the patsys.

Or did the titans and patsys face off last season?

[Savage69]

Sav-n't resort to making things up just to backpedal your way out of something you can't defend with facts-

Show me where I said Martin had less draw plays than Jordan.

Show me where.

Man, stick to teh truth, will ya

Scott your the one that took issue with the Draw

Play comment saying in 04 here's your words..

Martin on carries when the down was 3rd and 6 or longer-6 carries for 58 yards.

Lamont jordan, in those same situations- 7 carries for 35 yards.

All I've ever said was Martin got lots more Draw

plays then Jordan ever got! If we agree what the

Hell were you bitching about?? And I thought all

the Kids were on JI!! Except for EB and some other

banned puppies!!

[Barton]

Theres no debating that Jordan showed flashes of being a great back, and possibly better than Martin.

Facts remain that Jordan never started a single game and always came in during garbage time to "PAD HIS STATS". It will be interesting to see just how well he does in oakland as a feature back. He couldnt have landed in a better situation. Randy Moss on the outside will alone make Jordan a better play.

The draw play to Martin was a double edged sword.

[Savage69]

Theres no debating that Jordan showed flashes of being a great back, and possibly better than Martin.

Facts remain that Jordan never started a single game and always came in during garbage time to "PAD HIS STATS". It will be interesting to see just how well he does in oakland as a feature back. He couldnt have landed in a better situation. Randy Moss on the outside will alone make Jordan a better play.

The draw play to Martin was a double edged sword.

And why do you think he never started a Game in 4

yr's even when Martin was hurt?? If Jordan would

have gone in and played Great you would have had

a RB controversy that Hermie or Hackett couldn't

deal with!! Any Team with a clue doesn't play a back

with 2 sprained ankles as they did in 02!!

[GimmeShelter]

15 more posts about CM.

Someone is in jeopardy of being labeled a agenda post compiler. :wink:

[Savage69]

15 more posts about CM.

Someone is in jeopardy of being labeled a agenda post compiler. :wink:

Actually I didn't even mention a name like you

did!! The arguement was over Draw plays!! The

Agenda as you call it is to defend at any cost

what is considered to be a negative thing about

the Teams Sacred Cow!! And if you want Post

compiling check out Tex!!

[Barton]

And why do you think he never started a Game in 4

yr's even when Martin was hurt?? If Jordan would

have gone in and played Great you would have had

a RB controversy that Hermie or Hackett couldn't

deal with!! Any Team with a clue doesn't play a back

with 2 sprained ankles as they did in 02!!

Then Martin would have demanded a trade and Jordan would have left for free agency anyways, leaving the Jets FO with their dicks in their hands.

[Savage69]

Then Martin would have demanded a trade and Jordan would have left for free agency anyways, leaving the Jets FO with their dicks in their hands.

Why EB are you saying All the Carries Martin

wouldn't have been a Good Soldier for the Good

of the Team?? Martin had a Contact he couldn't

demand anything!! Not to worry even if Jordan

had 4 td's and 200 yds rushing as soon as Martin

was better Hermie and Hackett would have chained

Jordan back on the bench!!

[Barton]

Savage, you have said many times over at JI that Jordan was better than Martin and if he started the Jets would have made it to the AFC Champ Game.

If Martin and Jordan were both healthy, how can you give Jordan the start? Seriously. He's never proven to be a great anything. And Martin, our feature back in case you didnt know, would be so pissed off and angry at Herm and the FO that he would be causing a major clubhouse distraction and demanding a trade/pay raise. It was a sticky situation for Herm, he had to give the ball to Martin.

[Gainzo]

Three times dingers O has squared off with bellies D

In those three games dingers O scored a combined total of 68 Pts

That is an average of nearly 22.6 PPG in three games

In other words, during an era in which BB's defense has confounded the entire NFL ... as well has Peyton Manning and the high flying Colts ... dingers O has had no such problems with the vaunted BB schemes

I have yet to do an extensive study, but I'd wager a nice chuck of change that no other OC in the entire league can match or exceed dingers 22.6 PPG average over a 3+ Game span verses the BB defense

The three games break down as follows ... 24, 30 and 14 ... those are the three totals dinger has hung on the Patriots since 2002 when he first matched wits with Belichick

Now compare that to our former OC ... he who will remain nameless, fore I dare not speak his name

In his 10 encounters with BB since 2000, he who will remain nameless has watched his offense {our offense} average 16 PPG verses the BB defense

So under CAN'T HACKETT ... Okay, I had to mention his name ... our offense averaged 16 PPG verses Belichick's defense, whereas dinger has averaged a TD more PG {22.6} verses BB

HOWEVER!!

If you eliminate 2000 {Belichick's first year in NE} when the Patriots were 5-11 and BB was just beginning to shape their team in his image, and start measuring CAN'T HACKETT Vs BB beginning in 2001 when the Patriots had turned the corner, the gap between dinger {who first met BB in 2002, so it's fair to eliminate 2000} and CAN'T HACKETT gets far more staggering

Over that period, 2001-2004, a total of 8 encounters with Belichick, CAN'T HACKETT'S offense averaged a putrid 13.6 Pts PG

DINGER Vs BB since 2002 = 22.6 Pts PG

CAN'T Vs BB since 2001 = 13.6 Pts PG

So following BB's initial season when the Patriots were still a bad football team, dingers O has averaged a full 10 PPG more than Cant Hackett's O verses Belichick's defense

And dig this ... I'm actually being generous to CAN'T because I believe further research will show that at least one of our touchdowns during that time span was scored by the defense and/or special teams ... so his PPG average is probably closer to 10 than it is to 13

Anyhow, not that these stats are telling Jet fans anything they didn't already know about CAN'T ... obviously there is barely a Jet fan to be found who didn't already know that CAN'T was a JOKE ... but I did want to point out that we are now in GOOD HANDS with the dinger

And more importantly, we are in GOOD HANDS with the dinger verses BB as well ... and there aren't many OC's in the NFL who can SAY THAT

Ham I love your optimism for the 2005 season but you have to remember this:

In 2002 the Pats D sucked, especially against the run

In 2003 they played the Titans twice.

The first game the D gave up 30. When BB & Co had the chance to play them again the D only gave up 14.

[Savage69]

Savage, you have said many times over at JI that Jordan was better than Martin and if he started the Jets would have made it to the AFC Champ Game.

If Martin and Jordan were both healthy, how can you give Jordan the start? Seriously. He's never proven to be a great anything. And Martin, our feature back in case you didnt know, would be so pissed off and angry at Herm and the FO that he would be causing a major clubhouse distraction and demanding a trade/pay raise. It was a sticky situation for Herm, he had to give the ball to Martin.

Didn't Mommy ever tell you it's a sin to tell a

Lie?? Show me a post where I ever said that!! Must

have been the same time you came out of the Closet

as a Gay Teenager.. Did I think there

should have been more carries for Lamont? Yes and

I'm not the only one! What I said recently was when

a Poster was trashing Dillon I said at least he had

a TD vs Pitt if Martin had one we would have been

playing the Pats the next week!! Here's a Deal

I don't give the others..Show me the Post where I said

what you said I did and I'll send 100 to your favorite Charity

and 100 to you!! If you can't you

owe me nothing but the Liar Label that will be yours!! :wink:

[Green Jets & Ham]

Ham I love your optimism for the 2005 season but you have to remember this:

In 2002 the Pats D sucked, especially against the run

In 2003 they played the Titans twice.

The first game the D gave up 30. When BB & Co had the chance to play them again the D only gave up 14.

True Gainzo, but there is another side to that coin as well

1. That Game was played in frigid tempatures, thus points were difficult to come by for both teams

2. Drew Bennett flatout dropped a TD Pass, but dinger called the play that should have given the Titans a 21-17 lead ... I mean, he called a play that resulted in a wide-open WR for a TD, and the pass was right there, but he just flatout dropped it ... the one thing dinger cannot do is catch the ball for his WR's ... he can only put them in position to MAKE A PLAY

Truth is, dinger has not had the same problems with BB other OC's have had throughout the years

Now that doesn't mean he out-wits BB .. Just that he is not subject to a mismatch like Hackett most other OC's

In-effect, he holds his own with BB ... at least ... and his definitely not over-matched

[Jetsfan80]

Ham, I don't know what I'm going to do when the Jets actually throw a pass this year where the receiver catches it in stride with a chance to make a play with the ball. I don't know what I'll do when third and nine comes up and I don't just head to the fridge because I know a draw is coming. The Dinger factor is HUGE here. Now, if Herm can keep his nose out of his business is another question...

Not only that, but this whole offense has to get out of "Hackett mode" and play with some balls. It takes a lot to reverse a trend that continued for 4 years.

[MiamiJet]

Not only that, but this whole offense has to get out of "Hackett mode" and play with some balls. It takes a lot to reverse a trend that continued for 4 years.

Great coaching can change that.

Henderson, along with some new linebackers, and two studs in Coleman and Vilma, was able to completely change the defense.

It can happen. Lovie Smith did so in St. Louis years ago.

Jon Gruden did so in Tampa.

There are examples of this all over in sports.

Great coaches are able to get the most out of their players and put them into positions to succeed. Coaching makes a huge difference in a game in which a little can affect the entire outcome of a game or season.

Believe it or not, I wanted Heimerdinger from the start. I love the man. He was exactly the type of coach I thought could put us over the top, and I still have a hard time believing the heist that Bradway and Herm pulled off in signing him. I just didn't think we could get him.

Heimerdinger is a teacher, someone that has had immense success everywhere he's been. He commands respect, and asks for the most from his personnel.

Driven. Accountable.

For years we were at a distinct disadvantage from a coaching aspect. We now have identical twins at OC and DC, terrific coaching on both lines, and Chad will finally have a QB coach. Compare Hackett to Heimerdinger and it's not even close.

[Barton]

Didn't Mommy ever tell you it's a sin to tell a

Lie?? Show me a post where I ever said that!! Must

have been the same time you came out of the Closet

as a Gay Teenager.. Did I think there

should have been more carries for Lamont? Yes and

I'm not the only one! What I said recently was when

a Poster was trashing Dillon I said at least he had

a TD vs Pitt if Martin had one we would have been

playing the Pats the next week!! Here's a Deal

I don't give the others..Show me the Post where I said

what you said I did and I'll send 100 to your favorite Charity

and 100 to you!! If you can't you

owe me nothing but the Liar Label that will be yours!! :wink:

I dont have access to the JI archives, so I cant search. I was banned.

You're still buddy buddy over there at JI. :wink:

Maybe I'll sign up and look for it later.

I know you expressed your feelings on LaMont being a starter instead of Curtis. Practically common sense.

[Savage69]

I dont have access to the JI archives, so I cant search. I was banned.

You're still buddy buddy over there at JI. :wink:

Maybe I'll sign up and look for it later.

I know you expressed your feelings on LaMont being a starter instead of Curtis. Practically common sense.

Little Eric your confusing getting a start as

opposed to being the Starter over Martin!! I

like a multiple back offense and thought we should

have had a 60/40 split with Martin getting the 60

in order to give the D different looks and keep both

backs in tune with the O and having them less beat

up come playoff time!! No way could you EVER sit

Martin with his huge Salary!! Just as no way should

we have signed Lamont for big Bucks, you can't put

that much money into 1 position!!Now go to your room

for a timeout..Mommy will have Dinner ready soon!!