Anyone hear what that obnoxious, arrogant prick Schilling said yesterday?

[Klecko73isGod]

He said he'd considering coming back to pitch, but only for a "championship caliber, long suffering franchise."

Yes, Curt, it's all for the glorification of you, you sanctimonious asshead.

Seriously, am I the only person praying to G-d that there is a Schilling/steroid link out there somewhere?

[nyjunc]

Schilling can be annoying but he backs it up. if not for him the Yanks would likely have at least 2 more Championships this decade and in Boston it would be 90 years and counting w/o a title.

[Klecko73isGod]

Schilling can be annoying but he backs it up. if not for him the Yanks would likely have at least 2 more Championships this decade and in Boston it would be 90 years and counting w/o a title.

That's incredibly debateable.

He wasn't their best pitcher either time they won the World Series, hell, during their second run he was barely along for the ride.

The "bloody" sock was nonsense designed to put the spotlight on him and make him appear to be courageous.

[JohnnyHector]

Is this my cue to once again school you in a debate as to why Curt Schilling belongs in the HOF?

[Lil Bit Special]

He said he'd considering coming back to pitch, but only for a "championship caliber, long suffering franchise."

Yes, Curt, it's all for the glorification of you, you sanctimonious asshead.

Seriously, am I the only person praying to G-d that there is a Schilling/steroid link out there somewhere?

Sounds like he wants to pitch for the Yankees... oh wait... they arent championship caliber. Sorry.

[shawn306]

He said he'd considering coming back to pitch, but only for a "championship caliber, long suffering franchise."

Yes, Curt, it's all for the glorification of you, you sanctimonious asshead.

Seriously, am I the only person praying to G-d that there is a Schilling/steroid link out there somewhere?

Well to me that sounds like one team and one team only.

The Cubs

[Klecko73isGod]

Is this my cue to once again school you in a debate as to why Curt Schilling belongs in the HOF?

Your arguments were ridiculously bad. There are 50 pitchers who are eligible who deserve it more and until they all get in, Schilling's gonna have to stand outside whining about it.

[Klecko73isGod]

Well to me that sounds like one team and one team only.

The Cubs

He specifically mentioned the Cubs and the Rays.

[Klecko73isGod]

Sounds like he wants to pitch for the Yankees... oh wait... they arent championship caliber. Sorry.

In your dreams.

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

No offense to the Curt Schilling haters in the room......but say what you about the guy through the view of your rose colored Yankees glasses, the guy is a great American.

You may dislike him from a friendly baseball rivalry point of view, I get that completely. It's natural and I'm not knocking you at all for having some friendly ribbing between Yanks and Red Sox fans, but I happen to know for a 100% fact, that Curt Schilling is a stand up guy.

A few months back he went to Iraq on a USO morale tour and my good dear friend, currently a Major and soon to be LTC, was his military escort during the trip. Mike, the man I consider to be a 2nd brother to me, told me about just how much Schilling went out of his way to be with the troops and lift their spirits. He signed more autographs than any one man would sign in 10 years. He let people play with his WS ring. He watched movies and grabbed chow with the troops. He intentionally turned away media from him because simply, he didn't want it taking away from his time with the troops. He went "off the reservation" on numerous occasions to visit troops stationed in forward bases, away from the comforts of well established bases like Camp Liberty. He pitched batting practice to soldiers ready to go out on patrol and at times, just sat back and watched Christmas Vacation with soldiers. If you wanted a photo with the man, he took it and refused to leave until everyone got one. Simply put, he made it a point to make sure the trip wasn't about him, but that it was about the soldiers, marines and airmen he was visiting and making sure that they knew he appreciate their service.

My friend Mike wrote an Op-Ed for the Washington Times which relays his experience as Schilling's military escort. It's a great read and Mike did a great job in not only writing it, but explaining Schilling's dedication while visiting. I recommend it.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/24/schilling-in-baghdad/

Say what you want about Schilling, but after speaking with Mike, you're not going to convince me that he's a "sanctimonious asshead". Funny, if Favre would have come out of retirement to play for a winner, would you have said the same thing? Doubt it? Getting upset because a veteran with WS titles wants to come back to play for a winner is laughable.

[ZachEY]

Is this my cue to once again school you in a debate as to why Curt Schilling belongs in the HOF?

Is it really that hard to win an argument with regard to the HOF with a guy who's moniker is 'Klecko73isGod'?

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

No offense to the Curt Schilling haters in the room......but say what you about the guy through the view of your rose colored Yankees glasses, the guy is a great American.

You may dislike him from a friendly baseball rivalry point of view, I get that completely. It's natural and I'm not knocking you at all for having some friendly ribbing between Yanks and Red Sox fans, but I happen to know for a 100% fact, that Curt Schilling is a stand up guy.

A few months back he went to Iraq on a USO morale tour and my good dear friend, currently a Major and soon to be LTC, was his military escort during the trip. Mike, the man I consider to be a 2nd brother to me, told me about just how much Schilling went out of his way to be with the troops and lift their spirits. He signed more autographs than any one man would sign in 10 years. He let people play with his WS ring. He watched movies and grabbed chow with the troops. He intentionally turned away media from him because simply, he didn't want it taking away from his time with the troops. He went "off the reservation" on numerous occasions to visit troops stationed in forward bases, away from the comforts of well established bases like Camp Liberty. He pitched batting practice to soldiers ready to go out on patrol and at times, just sat back and watched Christmas Vacation with soldiers. If you wanted a photo with the man, he took it and refused to leave until everyone got one. Simply put, he made it a point to make sure the trip wasn't about him, but that it was about the soldiers, marines and airmen he was visiting and making sure that they knew he appreciate their service.

My friend Mike wrote an Op-Ed for the Washington Times which relays his experience as Schilling's military escort. It's a great read and Mike did a great job in not only writing it, but explaining Schilling's dedication while visiting. I recommend it.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/24/schilling-in-baghdad/

Say what you want about Schilling, but after speaking with Mike, you're not going to convince me that he's a "sanctimonious asshead". Funny, if Favre would have come out of retirement to play for a winner, would you have said the same thing? Doubt it? Getting upset because a veteran with WS titles wants to come back to play for a winner is laughable.

Meh, he's just trying to make up for decades of douchbaggery.

[nyjunc]

That's incredibly debateable.

He wasn't their best pitcher either time they won the World Series, hell, during their second run he was barely along for the ride.

The "bloody" sock was nonsense designed to put the spotlight on him and make him appear to be courageous.

He pitched great in 3 games of a 7 game WS in 2001, w/o him AZ has no chance. In '04 he picked up the slack for that choker Pedro. His ketchup sock won was HUGE in coming back to win that series for Boston.

Schilling absolutely belongs in the Hall. He, along w/ Smoltz, is the best postseason starting pitcher of this generation and he was a huge part of taking down the Yankee dynasty in '01 and doing the unthinkable in leading Boston to a WS title for the first time in 86 years.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

He pitched great in 3 games of a 7 game WS in 2001, w/o him AZ has no chance. In '04 he picked up the slack for that choker Pedro. His ketchup sock won was HUGE in coming back to win that series for Boston.

Schilling absolutely belongs in the Hall. He, along w/ Smoltz, is the best postseason starting pitcher of this generation and he was a huge part of taking down the Yankee dynasty in '01 and doing the unthinkable in leading Boston to a WS title for the first time in 86 years.

Which is why I'll always be gleefully anticipating his slow, painful death.

[Klecko73isGod]

He pitched great in 3 games of a 7 game WS in 2001, w/o him AZ has no chance. In '04 he picked up the slack for that choker Pedro. His ketchup sock won was HUGE in coming back to win that series for Boston.

Schilling absolutely belongs in the Hall. He, along w/ Smoltz, is the best postseason starting pitcher of this generation and he was a huge part of taking down the Yankee dynasty in '01 and doing the unthinkable in leading Boston to a WS title for the first time in 86 years.

I think Andy Pettite has a bit of an argument to make on that one.

[Vicious89x]

As much as I hate the d00sh, he's HoF pitcher. I can't stand the sight of the guy.

[JohnnyHector]

Your arguments were ridiculously bad. There are 50 pitchers who are eligible who deserve it more and until they all get in, Schilling's gonna have to stand outside whining about it.

Start out small and name 10. I'll even start you out:

Clemens, Maddux, Pedro, Randy Johnson, Rivera, Smoltz, Glavine.

That's 7. Name three more pitchers who aren't in that are Hall-worthy. You can move on to the other 40 after that.

I'll refresh your memory with my "ridiculously bad" arguments for Schilling:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Curt Schilling is only getting in the Hall of Fame if he buys a ticket.

He's not even top 10 in his own generation.

Your Yankee bias has gotten the best of you, because you're out of your mind. The only thing that would keep Schilling out of the Hall is his mouth and blatant self-promotion.

He was runner-up in the Cy Young voting three times - twice finishing behind teammate Randy Johnson posting statistics that would make him a runaway winner in other years:

2001 - 22-6, 2.98 ERA, 1.075 WHIP, 293 K's

2002 - 23-7, 3.23 ERA, 0.968 WHIP, 313 K's

He is the all-time leader in career K/BB ratio in the modern era. He is one of the all-time great postseason pitchers, going 10-2 with a 2.23 ERA in 19 career postseason starts.

Not even Top 10 in his own generation? Aside from Pedro, Randy Johnson, Maddux (all no-brainers for the Hall), and Smoltz (who is on par with Schilling IMO), tell me who is ahead of him in your estimation? Please don't even think of saying Mussina either...

Roger Clemens, Mariano Riviera, Johan Santana (same era if not generation,) Josh Beckett (who also helped put two teams over the top and I don't think we've seen the best of him yet,) Smoltz has been better longer and more versatile with 200 wins and 150 saves.

If you're gonna put people in the Hall based primarily on postseason performance, Bernie Williams should be a first ballot Hall of Famer. Nobody has more postseason homers or RBIs, not to mention a batting title, four Gold Gloves and five All-Star appearances.

It's not the Hall of Very Good.

Plus, he's got a major issue with the writers, who think he is a sanctimonius asshead and rightfully so.

A bit premature on Santana and Beckett, though I agree both are well on their way. The other guys you mentioned are also clear HOF pitchers as well, so I'm not sure how you can say Schilling isn't HOF material. Because he pitched in an era with plenty of great pitchers? Because he won 55 games and K'd over 600 batters in 2 years and didn't win a Cy Young in either one?

It's good of you to conveniently omit that Bernie Williams has one of the highest postseason AB totals of all-time. All those hits translate to an eye-popping .275 BA and .850 OPS. Wow, just wow.

Yes, because the baseball writers, 90% of whom were the last ones picked in a sandlot game as a kid, aren't guilty of the same when they use their "power" to make a statement to one of these players.

You still haven't given a single sound reason as to why Schilling doesn't belong in the Hall, outside of the fact that you hate him because he played for the Red Sox and that he is a self-promoting ass.

He had two 20 win seasons. He was a good pitcher. He is only a Hall of Famer in his mind.

Three 20-win seasons, but who's counting?

20-win seasons by some more recent/potential/fringe HOF pitchers:

6 - Roger Clemens

6 - Steve Carlton

5 - Tom Glavine

3 - Randy Johnson

3 - Phil Niekro

3 - Jack Morris

3 - Curt Schilling

2 - Nolan Ryan

2 - Don Sutton

2 - Greg Maddux

2 - Pedro Martinez

1 - John Smoltz

I suppose that we'll make Jack Morris the cutoff and anyone below him that isn't already in the Hall gets shutout by your standards, unless they have crossed the magical 300-win mark. Sorry, Pedro and Smoltz - you're not worthy. Randy Johnson had better get to 300 wins, or it's going to be a tight squeeze to get him in.

Feel free to continue making embarrassing arguments against Schilling's HOF worthiness if it pleases you.

Jack Morris isn't in the Hall and his career mirrors Schilling's. Morris was 12-2 in the postseason and actually help three different teams win World Series yet I don't hear anyone clamoring for him to be in the Hall.

I'll make you a deal, Schilling can get in, but not until Jack Morris is already.

While I think Jack Morris should be in, if only because I hate that guys like Sutton and Niekro were enshrined, Schilling's career has been clearly superior. As far as him helping Toronto win the '92 Series, I have to disagree by citing his postseason numbers that year:

0-3, 7.43 ERA

Four seasons with an ERA+ over 150 for Schilling, while Morris never posted one above 133. A few other numbers for comparison:

WHIP

Schilling - 1.137

Morris - 1.296

K's

Schilling - 3,113

Morris - 2,478 (in 550+ more IP)

Postseason ERA

Schilling - 2.23

Morris - 3.80

Postseason WHIP

Schilling - 0.9675

Morris - 1.245

Curt Schilling couldn't carry Morris' jockstrap.

Win/Loss record

Morris - 254-186

Schilling - 216-146

Career ERA

Morris - 3.90 (100% in the American League)

Schilling - 3.46 (70% of his career in the National League)

Schilling only topped 200 innings nine times, never pitching more than 268.7 innings. Morris topped 200 innings 11 times, four times going over 266 innings.

Despite pitching more than 600 fewer innings than Morris, Schilling gave up only 42 fewer homeruns.

Both had 3 20-win seasons but Schilling never had more than 17 wins in any other season which he onlt accomplished once. Morris had a 19-win season, two 18-win campaigns and two 17-win years in addition to his 3 20-win years.

In Morris' World Series MVP performance he was 2-0 in three starts with 1.17 ERA in 23 innings. In Schilling's World Series co-MVP campaign he was 1-0 in three starts with a 1.69 ERA in 21.1 inning pitched.

Morris career was essentially over prior to mid-90s expansion, Schilling's career was spent primarily in the post expansion era with watered down talent.

Schilling is not a Hall of Famer by any reasonable stretch of the imagination.

Morris was a better pitcher over a longer period of time vs. tougher competition who pitched more and was more durable and is not in the Hall.

Get over this BS. Morris>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Schilling.

Then let's use the one statistic that tells the story of how a pitcher performed relative to the rest of the league and adjusted for home ballpark, ERA+.

An ERA+ of 100 is considered average. In seasons in which Schilling started at least 20 games, he had an ERA+ under 100 only once - and it was a 99. His other 20+ start seasons, he posted ERA+ numbers of 150, 134, 143, 134, 135, 124, 157, 142, 159, 150, 120, and 122.

Morris posted a career high of 133 in 1979 - a number that Schilling bested in nine different seasons. His other 20-start seasons: 99, 124, 100, 117, 109, 122, 127, 126, 98, 79, 89, 124, 102, 70, 83. That includes four seasons which were only average relative to the rest of the league and four in which he was clearly below average.

Power pitchers are generally not innings-eaters, due to the fact that they throw more pitches per AB - and while Schilling was clearly a more dominant strikeout pitcher than Morris, he also had much better command:

Morris - 5.83 K/9

Schilling - 8.60 K/9

Morris - 3.27 BB/9

Schilling - 1.96 BB/9

Schilling's high K rate, when paired with his excellent control - especially for a power pitcher - gives him the highest K/BB ratio of all-time.

Morris - 1.78 K/BB

Schilling - 4.38 K/BB

So to your point about IP, Pedro Martinez never had more than 241 IP in a season, a number Schilling eclipsed four times. Is Jack Morris better than Pedro too?

[Otter]

He pitched great in 3 games of a 7 game WS in 2001, w/o him AZ has no chance. In '04 he picked up the slack for that choker Pedro. His ketchup sock won was HUGE in coming back to win that series for Boston.

Schilling absolutely belongs in the Hall. He, along w/ Smoltz, is the best postseason starting pitcher of this generation and he was a huge part of taking down the Yankee dynasty in '01 and doing the unthinkable in leading Boston to a WS title for the first time in 86 years.

Clemens outpitched Schilling in game 7. He left the game losing 2-1 after Soriano hit the home run in the eighth. If the Yanks don't blow the game in the ninth he would have been the losing pitcher. Something that everybody seems to forget.

However, you can't argue with his postseason record 11-2, 2.23 ERA. I don't like the guy, but he has been a clutch pitcher.

[Vicious89x]

^^ JohnnyHector

L O ****ING L.

[JohnnyHector]

I think Andy Pettite has a bit of an argument to make on that one.

I seriously hope that you're not suggesting that Andy Pettitte has been a better postseason pitcher over the course of his career than Curt Schilling.

[Klecko73isGod]

Start out small and name 10. I'll even start you out:

Clemens, Maddux, Pedro, Randy Johnson, Rivera, Smoltz, Glavine.

That's 7. Name three more pitchers who aren't in that are Hall-worthy. You can move on to the other 40 after that.

I'll refresh your memory with my "ridiculously bad" arguments for Schilling:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jack Morris, Jim Kaat, Bert Blyleven.

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

If Schilling had pitched for the Yankees, there'd be riot in Cooperstown if he didn't get in. Yankees fans see only one opinion, their own.

[Vicious89x]

If Schilling had pitched for the Yankees, there'd be riot in Cooperstown if he didn't get in. Yankees fans see only one opinion, their own.

Untrue, I'm a diehard Yankee fan and I admit the Schilling should be in the HoF and that Pedro Martinez is probably the greatest pitcher of all time, if not one of the top 3.

[Klecko73isGod]

I seriously hope that you're not suggesting that Andy Pettitte has been a better postseason pitcher over the course of his career than Curt Schilling.

Considering Pettite has almost twice as many starts in the postseason, the comparison really isn't fair. Give Schilling 16 more postseason starts and see what happens to his numbers.

Pettite has helped pitch his teams into the postseason more often and consistently helped his team go deeper.

Pettite has pitched in 7 World Series as opposed to Schilling's 4.

Oh, and he has as many rings as Schilling and Smoltz combined.

[Zeebers]

That's incredibly debateable.

He wasn't their best pitcher either time they won the World Series, hell, during their second run he was barely along for the ride.

The "bloody" sock was nonsense designed to put the spotlight on him and make him appear to be courageous.

Schilling was brought in to deliver a championship. He did that whether you think he had a major role in it or not. He has backed up everything he has said so far.

Remember when he said "mystique and aura were cabaret dancers"? That's pretty funny, you have to give him credit for that.

[Klecko73isGod]

If Schilling had pitched for the Yankees, there'd be riot in Cooperstown if he didn't get in. Yankees fans see only one opinion, their own.

Bull.

I was a Roger Clemens fan when he was a Red Sox. Pedro was an absolute beast.

Schilling is an overrated ****sucker.

[JohnnyHector]

Jack Morris, Jim Kaat, Bert Blyleven.

Jack Morris - I think any objective individual would agree than I disproved your claim above

Jim Kaat - Career ERA+ of 107 (barely above average). Never had a season above 131 in which he started 20+ games.

Bert Blyleven - Good pitcher, possibly Hall-worthy...

Even without arguing against Blyleven, you're short of the 10 I asked for, much less the 50 you claimed to be more HOF worthy.

[Klecko73isGod]

Schilling was brought in to deliver a championship. He did that whether you think he had a major role in it or not. He has backed up everything he has said so far.

Remember when he said "mystique and aura were cabaret dancers"? That's pretty funny, you have to give him credit for that.

I started hating Curt Schilling the moment he covered his head while Mitch Williams was pitching in Game 6 of the '93 World Series. Asshead made damn sure the cameras were on him.

Support your teammate for miserable prick!

[Klecko73isGod]

Jack Morris - I think any objective individual would agree than I disproved your claim above

Jim Kaat - Career ERA+ of 107 (barely above average). Never had a season above 131 in which he started 20+ games.

Bert Blyleven - Good pitcher, possibly Hall-worthy...

Even without arguing against Blyleven, you're short of the 10 I asked for, much less the 50 you claimed to be more HOF worthy.

You told me to list three, which I did.

And you arguments against Jack Morris can easily be made against Schilling as they had incredibly similar careers. Morris, however, was better.

Morris was the best pitcher on his team both when he led the Tigers to a championship and when he led the Twins to a championship. Schilling was NEVER the best pitcher on his championship teams.

[JohnnyHector]

Considering Pettite has almost twice as many starts in the postseason, the comparison really isn't fair. Give Schilling 16 more postseason starts and see what happens to his numbers.

Pettite has helped pitch his teams into the postseason more often and consistently helped his team go deeper.

Pettite has pitched in 7 World Series as opposed to Schilling's 4.

Oh, and he has as many rings as Schilling and Smoltz combined.

Curt Schilling - 19 postseason starts, 3 in which he gave up more than 2 ER (15.8%)

Andy Pettitte - 36 postseason starts, 17 in which he gave up more than 2 ER (47.2%)

Give up already.

You're embarrassing yourself.

[Vicious89x]

Schilling excelled in the steroids era where I'm pretty sure as d00shy as he is, he didn't partake in the festivities. That makes the accomplishments of him, Pedro, Maddux, etc., all the more impressive. You can't dismiss era's of the game where certain players played.

[Klecko73isGod]

Jack Morris - I think any objective individual would agree than I disproved your claim above

Jim Kaat - Career ERA+ of 107 (barely above average). Never had a season above 131 in which he started 20+ games.

Bert Blyleven - Good pitcher, possibly Hall-worthy...

Even without arguing against Blyleven, you're short of the 10 I asked for, much less the 50 you claimed to be more HOF worthy.

Jim Kaat won 283 games in a 25 year career, playing primarily on horrible teams. He is also arguably the best fielding pitcher in history.

[Klecko73isGod]

Schilling excelled in the steroids era where I'm pretty sure as d00shy as he is, he didn't partake in the festivities. That makes the accomplishments of him, Pedro, Maddux, etc., all the more impressive. You can't dismiss era's of the game where certain players played.

You also can't punish guys for the era they played in.

[Klecko73isGod]

Curt Schilling - 19 postseason starts, 3 in which he gave up more than 2 ER (15.8%)

Andy Pettitte - 36 postseason starts, 17 in which he gave up more than 2 ER (47.2%)

Give up already.

You're embarrassing yourself.

Gee, I wonder why Pettite has almost twice as many postseason starts as Schilling....

[JohnnyHector]

You told me to list three, which I did.

And you arguments against Jack Morris can easily be made against Schilling as they had incredibly similar careers. Morris, however, was better.

Morris was the best pitcher on his team both when he led the Tigers to a championship and when he led the Twins to a championship. Schilling was NEVER the best pitcher on his championship teams.

So, Schilling should be punished for being the 2nd best pitcher in the NL in 2001 and 2002 because he pitched for the same team as the best pitcher in baseball?