Jump to content
Want to remove all ads? ×

Halladay vs. Santana

Otter

By Otter
in Baseball

Who is the best starter in baseball?  

1 member has voted

  1. 1. Who is the best starter in baseball?


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 239
  • Created
  • Last Reply
neckdemon

neckdemon

Posted
Posted
Can you even read? When in 2008 or 2009 had Halladay had a start even close to as bad as the one Santana just had?

lol.......oh i see. limit the years to the ones that work for your argument. you are failing miserably. i don't know why i've even bothered to respond to this........because it doesn't even deserve validation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
neckdemon

neckdemon

Posted
Posted
wtf is wrong with Johan lately

who knows. he may be dealing with some nagging issues. or he may just be going through a bad stretch. a tiny snap shot doesn't take away from what the man has done, consistently, for the past 7 years as monzino would have everyone believe. just real quick i looked and tom seaver had 3 games where he gave up 6 runs and one where he gave up 7 in 1974, an overall down year for him. hardly great games at all. by guido's reckoning he must not have been the best pitcher anymore, it must have been mike marshall. oh, but wait he won the cy young again the next year. his argument is a joke.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Scott Dierking

Scott Dierking

Posted
Posted
who knows. he may be dealing with some nagging issues. or he may just be going through a bad stretch. a tiny snap shot doesn't take away from what the man has done, consistently, for the past 7 years as monzino would have everyone believe. just real quick i looked and tom seaver had 3 games where he gave up 6 runs and one where he gave up 7 in 1974, an overall down year for him. hardly great games at all. by guido's reckoning he must not have been the best pitcher anymore. oh, but wait he won the cy young again the next year. his argument is a joke.

I remember both Seaver and Palmer both had down years in '74, and both came back strong in '75.

I had the Sports Illustrated Cover that told me so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
neckdemon

neckdemon

Posted
Posted
I remember both Seaver and Palmer both had down years in '74, and both came back strong in '75.

I had the Sports Illustrated Cover that told me so.

yeah the point is......mike marshall was a flash in the pan who had a coupla pretty good seasons before he won the cy young and seaver had a down year. monzino would have been sucking him off and proclaiming seaver #2 now. wouldn't have worked out too well now would it have, lol. now i'm not saying that johan is going to become a top 10 all-time while 20 years from now everyone says who the "fu*k is roy halladay"? but until johan proves to be consistently down and halladay proves to be consistently great his proclamation is just premature.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guido Monzino

Guido Monzino

Posted
Posted
lol.......oh i see. limit the years to the ones that work for your argument. you are failing miserably. i don't know why i've even bothered to respond to this........because it doesn't even deserve validation.

Yes, how silly of me to reference the most recent stats when discussing who is the best right now. :rolleyes:

Maybe we should compare which guy had better numbers in high school. Or which guy's father had a better K rate.

Seriously, what's your argument based on? I'm bringing you facts about the 2 guys we're discussing - Johan and Roy. All you guys seem to bring to the thread are insults to me. And the best part is, you think that gives you some kind of edge in the discussion. You can't make this stuff up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guido Monzino

Guido Monzino

Posted
Posted
yeah the point is......mike marshall was a flash in the pan who had a coupla pretty good seasons before he won the cy young and seaver had a down year. monzino would have been sucking him off and proclaiming seaver #2 now. wouldn't have worked out too well now would it have, lol. now i'm not saying that johan is going to become a top 10 all-time while 20 years from now everyone says who the "fu*k is roy halladay"? but until johan proves to be consistently down and halladay proves to be consistently great his proclamation is just premature.

LOL. Halladay hasn't proven to be consistently great? You've proven my point that you have no clue about this guy, therefore don't have a leg to stand on when discussing him.

Try living outside of your little Mets box for once. There are a bunch of other teams too. And I don't just mean the ones you obsessively hate like the Yankees and Phillies. There's lots of baseball to watch, and plenty of players in the league to enjoy. Not just your guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Scott Dierking

Scott Dierking

Posted
Posted
Yes, how silly of me to reference the most recent stats when discussing who is the best right now. :rolleyes:

Maybe we should compare which guy had better numbers in high school. Or which guy's father had a better K rate.

Seriously, what's your argument based on? I'm bringing you facts about the 2 guys we're discussing - Johan and Roy. All you guys seem to bring to the thread are insults to me. And the best part is, you think that gives you some kind of edge in the discussion. You can't make this stuff up.

I , for one, do not believe I have thrown an insult your way.

I also don't believe to claim that I have "proven" the point of the discussion, an unprovable point really, as you have done numerous times.

You, on the other hand, have presumably made up points within this discussion, without proof, and when you get caught on technicalities, either ignore them or change the subject.

This is a chocolate vs. vanilla debate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JohnnyHector

JohnnyHector

Posted
Posted
I remember both Seaver and Palmer both had down years in '74, and both came back strong in '75.

I had the Sports Illustrated Cover that told me so.

Thanks to the power of the Internet, you can save money on buying SI and just have Guido tell you who the best pitcher in baseball is instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
neckdemon

neckdemon

Posted
Posted
LOL. Halladay hasn't proven to be consistently great? You've proven my point that you have no clue about this guy, therefore don't have a leg to stand on when discussing him.

Try living outside of your little Mets box for once. There are a bunch of other teams too. And I don't just mean the ones you obsessively hate like the Yankees and Phillies. There's lots of baseball to watch, and plenty of players in the league to enjoy. Not just your guys.

2004 and 2005 he couldn't stay on the field. 2007 he was above average at best. so, no he hasn't proven to be consistently great. as a matter of fact since 2003 (the year he was "the best") he's been inconsistent. you canblame injuries or whaterever you want....but he hasn't been doing it year after year after year like johan has. you sit here and say that we need to get out of our "mets world" but this whole debate is fueled by the fact that the yankees missed out on johan and you're still butt-hurt about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guido Monzino

Guido Monzino

Posted
Posted
I , for one, do not believe I have thrown an insult your way.

I also don't believe to claim that I have "proven" the point of the discussion, an unprovable point really, as you have done numerous times.

You, on the other hand, have presumably made up points within this discussion, without proof, and when you get caught on technicalities, either ignore them or change the subject.

This is a chocolate vs. vanilla debate.

I wasn't specifically referring to you regarding the insults. But you have mastered the "don't touch the subject, instead distract by nitpicking legit points" portion. I haven't seen you give any real data regarding the comparison of the two pitchers for a long while now. Certainly not since all the numbers you previously used have now switched directions for the two pitchers with the lone exception of strikeouts.

Would you mind linking for me posts in which I used the word "proven" in regards to this specific debate? Sure, I've used it in pointing out people's obvious bias, but I don't recall it on the actual debate. Throughout I have simply stated many reasons why I personally believe that Halladay is a better pitcher right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guido Monzino

Guido Monzino

Posted
Posted
2004 and 2005 he couldn't stay on the field. 2007 he was above average at best. so, no he hasn't proven to be consistently great. as a matter of fact since 2003 (the year he was "the best") he's been inconsistent. you canblame injuries or whaterever you want....but he hasn't been doing it year after year after year like johan has. you sit here and say that we need to get out of our "mets world" but this whole debate is fueled by the fact that the yankees missed out on johan and you're still butt-hurt about it.

Thanks for bringing up the Yankees again. As I have said many times, this debate has nothing to do with them. You're the only one that brings them up. Constantly. I'd be making the same exact case if Santana played for the Brewers. Or the Yankees.

What do you not get about the fact that Halladay plays for a division rival of my favorite team and that Santana has almost no impact on my team whatsoever now that he plays in a different league?

I know it is hard for someone like you to believe, but I hate the Blue Jays and am totally apathetic towards your Mets. We're not like you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Scott Dierking

Scott Dierking

Posted
Posted
Please. I already proved to you Halladay was better last season too earlier in this thread about a month ago. You also seem to always conveniently forget that AL pitcher stats can't be directly compared directly to NL stats as one is a much, much tougher league to pitch in.

Talk about track record all you want. Pedro Martinez has a better track record than Zach Greinke. Doesn't even remotely mean he's a better pitcher than him right now.

But whatever. Try to convince yourself that if you had you still wouldn't have made the playoffs last year if you had Halladay instead of Santana. You're still wrong. When your starter goes deeper into games, your bullpen doesn't even get the chance to blow it for him.

Guido "proving" by stats

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Scott Dierking

Scott Dierking

Posted
Posted
Thanks. I conceed a bad choice of words in one post. You claim I do it "multiple times"

And there it is again. Not addressing the topic, you know where I asked you how you present your case. Are you in politics? You should be.

Now that is funny, instead of proven, what choice should you have made there?

I presented that I felt this argument was "splitting hairs"

I presented opinions conducted by scouts and FO personnel

I presented against your AL bias, in counteracting last year's numbers (era)

I didn't claim to "prove" anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zeebers

Zeebers

Posted
Posted
i never had a problem with him....he was cool over at JI when i was there. i mean yeah he's def. a homer and def. gets a littel defensive at times, but so what.

Everyone is a homer to a certain extent, unfortunately there are guys that can never be wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GimmeShelter

GimmeShelter

Posted
Posted
Everyone is a homer to a certain extent, unfortunately there are guys that can never be wrong.

Correct. Tyler knew the game but unfortunately if Yanks were doing well his opinion was the ONLY one. When Yanks were going bad he is first to jump ship.

This Santana thread reminds me of one they had on the other board last year AFTER the Mets traded for him. It listed all sorts of red flag warnings about Johan and how they were glad he wasn't a Yankee. Those "red flags" didn't seem to bother Johan much last season although after these recent rough starts, I am sure they are back to Johan can't dominate the AL even though he has already pissed all over that league like no other pitcher in recent memory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
neckdemon

neckdemon

Posted
Posted
Correct. Tyler knew the game but unfortunately if Yanks were doing well his opinion was the ONLY one. When Yanks were going bad he is first to jump ship.

This Santana thread reminds me of one they had on the other board last year AFTER the Mets traded for him. It listed all sorts of red flag warnings about Johan and how they were glad he wasn't a Yankee. Those "red flags" didn't seem to bother Johan much last season although after these recent rough starts, I am sure they are back to Johan can't dominate the AL even though he has already pissed all over that league like no other pitcher in recent memory.

pedro?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

Content Partnership

Yes Network

Site Sponsor

MILE-Social - NJ Social Media & SEO company

Site Sponsor

MetLife Stadium Tailgate

NY Jets Podcast

NY Jets Podcast

DMCA Page

  • -- DMCA Page
    • ×
    ×
    • Create New...