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**Official Ladainian Tomlinson Thread** [Merged]

dolphann4life

By dolphann4life
in NY Jets Forum

Should we sign LT?  

1 member has voted

  1. 1. Should we sign LT?

    • Yes, he would fit in nicely as a complementary back
      74
    • No, he's finished.
      29
    • I don't care one way or the other.
      16

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Smashmouth

Smashmouth

Posted
Posted
i have read elsewhere that the jets were given the chance to match tj's 2 year/5 mil contract and refused.seems odd that they wouldnt match considering tj's leadership,locker room presents,experience,and durability.not to mention 1400 yards and 14 td's and the dude rarely fumbles.the jets must have bigger and better plans for the 3rd string back

Was TJ giving out Presents in the Locker room ? :o

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slats

slats

Posted
Posted
i have read elsewhere that the jets were given the chance to match tj's 2 year/5 mil contract and refused.seems odd that they wouldnt match considering tj's leadership,locker room presents,experience,and durability.not to mention 1400 yards and 14 td's and the dude rarely fumbles.the jets must have bigger and better plans for the 3rd string back

I just read that today, too. TJ > LT in my mind, and I'd have to think it would be the same in the minds of the Jets FO. I can't imagine them being willing to pay LT that much.

Thomas Jones has slowed down a bit, but LT looks just about done.

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serphnx

serphnx

Posted
Posted

I do think LT is still better than TJ, but I just don't think either is worth $5M that they'd be looking for, and TJ certainly didn't get it, although I guess he did get a 2 year contract he almost certainly will never see the second year.

Westbrook is another guy that's also done, but his injury problems are even worse.

It's hard for me to truly believe that LT is just so completely done that he is worse than TJ. I think if they swapped teams last year LT does at least as well as TJ but probably better, and TJ maybe gets 3 TDs like he did a few years ago with the Jets, whatever that awful first season stats were.

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slats

slats

Posted
Posted
I do think LT is still better than TJ, but I just don't think either is worth $5M that they'd be looking for, and TJ certainly didn't get it, although I guess he did get a 2 year contract he almost certainly will never see the second year.

Westbrook is another guy that's also done, but his injury problems are even worse.

It's hard for me to truly believe that LT is just so completely done that he is worse than TJ. I think if they swapped teams last year LT does at least as well as TJ but probably better, and TJ maybe gets 3 TDs like he did a few years ago with the Jets, whatever that awful first season stats were.

I strongly disagree. TJ has a couple decent backup years left in him. LT's toast.

Check out the RB #'s at: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb

For all of TJ's woes, he's doing much better than LT at this stage of their careers.

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Biggs

Biggs

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I strongly disagree. TJ has a couple decent backup years left in him. LT's toast.

Check out the RB #'s at: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb

For all of TJ's woes, he's doing much better than LT at this stage of their careers.

I don't think the numbers really show that at all. The Chargers were a bad running team averaging only 3.3 yards a carry. Tomlinson actually over performed that averaging 3.6 yards per carry. He also had 2 less TD's with 12 but he had 108 less carries. Jones on the other hand averaged less YPC than the Jets team average of 4.54 YPC. at 4.2.

You can't look at running production by a back without looking at how the team runs the ball. The Chargers were a terrible running team with an OL clearly designed to pass block. The Jets were a great running team with an OL designed to fire out and create holes for running backs.

Hard to see Jones averaging 4.2 for the Chargers last year or Tomlinson averaging 3.6 for the Jets last year.

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slats

slats

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I don't think the numbers really show that at all. The Chargers were a bad running team averaging only 3.3 yards a carry. Tomlinson actually over performed that averaging 3.6 yards per carry. He also had 2 less TD's with 12 but he had 108 less carries. Jones on the other hand averaged less YPC than the Jets team average of 4.54 YPC. at 4.2.

You can't look at running production by a back without looking at how the team runs the ball. The Chargers were a terrible running team with an OL clearly designed to pass block. The Jets were a great running team with an OL designed to fire out and create holes for running backs.

Hard to see Jones averaging 4.2 for the Chargers last year or Tomlinson averaging 3.6 for the Jets last year.

The neat thing about the people over at Football Outsiders is that they adjust their stats for things like OL strength and strength of opponent. Based on those adjusted numbers, LT was doing a lot worse than Jones last year.

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Biggs

Biggs

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The neat thing about the people over at Football Outsiders is that they adjust their stats for things like OL strength and strength of opponent. Based on those adjusted numbers, LT was doing a lot worse than Jones last year.

What do you think Jones would have done on SD and LT on the Jets? How do you define OL strength. A team that throws the ball needs to protect the QB a completely different skill set and technique from running the ball. The Jets have been mediocre at protecting the QB while the Chargers were pretty good at it. On the other side the Chargers couldn't run the ball at all and the Jets ran the ball well regardless of who was carrying it.

I'm not in favor of replacing toast with toast. I want a young guy who can develop and play specials because that's an area that was at best mediocre for us last year. Reality for me is I don't see anyway that a done LT is worse than a done Thomas Jones for less money. Toast is Toast and both of them looked done to me in the playoffs.

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dbatesman

dbatesman

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Sorry broseph...calling a RB with 1,400 yds. ineffective is ridiculous.

If you're going to join the legions of meatballs whose refrain is that blunt, unadjusted, statistically insignificant numbers "prove" that Thomas Jones is a good player, then this is pointless. I've tried my damnedest to explain this to people in the past and I refuse to give myself a headache trying to do it again.

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slats

slats

Posted
Posted
I'm not in favor of replacing toast with toast. I want a young guy who can develop and play specials because that's an area that was at best mediocre for us last year. Reality for me is I don't see anyway that a done LT is worse than a done Thomas Jones for less money. Toast is Toast and both of them looked done to me in the playoffs.

TJ's gone, so that doesn't matter.

I agree that I'd rather not replace him with toast, it's just that I think LT's a little crispier than TJ in that regard. I'd think the Jets would probably think the same way. So if LT is looking for money, I can't imagine that he'd expect the Jets to give him more than they refused to give TJ.

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Biggs

Biggs

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Posted
TJ's gone, so that doesn't matter.

I agree that I'd rather not replace him with toast, it's just that I think LT's a little crispier than TJ in that regard. I'd think the Jets would probably think the same way. So if LT is looking for money, I can't imagine that he'd expect the Jets to give him more than they refused to give TJ.

I was surprised at how slow LT looked against us in the playoffs. He is a shadow of what he was and that was with a pretty light load last year. You can't deny how Jones went off the cliff either.

The thing is you look at Thomas Jones and you see a guy in great shape. LT is also a workout warrior. It doesn't matter. Age impacts everything. Eyesight, reflexes, flexibility the entire package. Fractions matter they are the difference between 20 yards and a stop for no gain. Running backs often don't slow down when they age the fall off the cliff.

I agree with you if the reason to unload Jones was he is toast and not money you don't bring in LT. On the other hand if you can sign LT to a cheap deal that allows us to take a look at a draft pick and see what comes available during TC cuts and if something better comes along cut him, that may make sense.

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neckdemon

neckdemon

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Posted
The neat thing about the people over at Football Outsiders is that they adjust their stats for things like OL strength and strength of opponent. Based on those adjusted numbers, LT was doing a lot worse than Jones last year.

i personally hate any analysis that's based on any of that football outsiders crap. those sort of sabermetrics work alot better for baseball than they do for football......

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Jetsfan80

Jetsfan80

Posted
Posted
i personally hate any analysis that's based on any of that football outsiders crap. those sort of sabermetrics work alot better for baseball than they do for football......

Maybe so, but a lot of their stuff helps confirm the "eye test" better than a simple "Jones rushed for 1400 yds and 4.2 ypc!" could.

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slats

slats

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Posted
i personally hate any analysis that's based on any of that football outsiders crap. those sort of sabermetrics work alot better for baseball than they do for football......

They're far from perfect, but they do try to even the playing field for OL's and defenses. If you go by the straight numbers, then Thomlinson just plain sucks. But even adjusted for a poor OL, he still sucks.

I'm really curious to see what this visit nets.

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neckdemon

neckdemon

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Posted
They're far from perfect, but they do try to even the playing field for OL's and defenses. If you go by the straight numbers, then Thomlinson just plain sucks. But even adjusted for a poor OL, he still sucks.

I'm really curious to see what this visit nets.

i'm really not too keen on bringing LT in here either......he just looks like he's done.

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Integrity28

Integrity28

Posted
Posted

So... I liked Thomas Jones, I thought he was great in pass protection, and did a lot in his time here. Specifically when the O-line really became dominant.

Now... that said, if you are going to have a 30+ RB on your roster... why not have one of the best RBs of all time at 30+???

LT can still pound the ball for 3.0 - 3.5 ypc as the 2nd option behind Greene. He can still catch the ball out of the backfield... so from a pure skill set standpoint... he could be a good contributor.

My only concern is this... Thomas Jones was a heart & soul guy... he was the embodiment of intensity. LT is known as a pouting baby who disappears in the playoffs.

So... I'm truthfully torn on this whole thing. Not sure if I think LT would be an upgrade or not. :confused:

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Jetsfan80

Jetsfan80

Posted
Posted

I'd only want LT as a receiver out of the backfield, really. And we already have one in Leon. Thus, following this logic, LT might be insurance in case we lose Leon, NOT as a replacement for Jones. If we keep Leon, I doubt we see a backfield of Greene, Leon, LT next season. Our 3rd back can either be found on the roster already (Chauncey Washington) or via the draft/UDFA pile.

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Bleedin Green

Bleedin Green

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Between the cutting of TJ, the rumors of them declining to match KC's offer to him and now bringing in another over the hill RB in LT leads you really to one conclusion. Obviously TJ's performance at the end of the year really had a significant impact on the Jets. I'm guessing particularly the AFC Championship game really opened their eyes, as the running game became completely non-existent the second Greene left the game. Clearly, the Jets felt that it was the official end of Jones, and his success earlier in the season was all he had left in him.

I think Jetsfan80 also brings up a good point in that they likely see as Greene as the actual real replacement for Rhodes and LT as a potential replacement for Leon, which would only really need the team looking for a 3rd RB. Remember, its not as if at any point last season the Jets were using 3 RBs together. When Leon was still healthy, Greene hardly ever saw the field and then once Leon did get hurt, its not like Woodhead saw more time or Chauncey Washington ever showed up at all. So as long as they have their top two guys, beyond that all they're really looking for is an insurance policy.

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Maxman

Maxman

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Posted

I am actually warming up to this idea. He would be the 3rd back. Nice insurance. Although they do need a bruiser should Greene get hurt and based on last year, expecting Greene to play 16 games is a stretch.

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