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19 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Rick ****ed up.

It's like he was over-reacting to having gotten soft, cozying up to Michone and what-not. Now, the deal gets put on the table to kill the Survivors in exchange for food supply. They made it clear they had a month's worth of food, so there was absolutely no need for haste. He steamrolled Morgan when they voted on it, and he ignored all of the tell-tale signs that their intelligence wasn't up to snuff based on the drawings by the Hilltop guy that helped them.

Lots of action, but it was actually a really annoying episode... because for everything to have gone the way it did, we have to accept that Rick suddenly stopped being the proactive leader that is one-step ahead of us, and instead, he's become a reactive leader that isn't covering all of his bases like we're accustomed to. 

If this attack is so important, and the premise is to kill the Survivors, then why bring so many people that haven't killed anyone? Who clearly aren't going to be shoot-first, ask questions later. There was never a chance that this mission succeeded. Rick, like any bad leader, ignored the bad intel, ignored the basic strategy of covering your backside, brought ill-prepared "soldiers" into a fire-fight. 

 

This is interesting because I think he was trying to be proactive in this approach he just did a poor job of execution.  

Why wouldnt you scout the place for a few days?  That's what made no sense to me.  Get a feel for when they come, when they go, how many people they have, what type of weapons, what type of protection?  They just went.  So un-Rick like. 

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36 minutes ago, JiF said:

This is interesting because I think he was trying to be proactive in this approach he just did a poor job of execution.  

Why wouldnt you scout the place for a few days?  That's what made no sense to me.  Get a feel for when they come, when they go, how many people they have, what type of weapons, what type of protection?  They just went.  So un-Rick like. 

Impulsive is not proactive, that's my take.

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8 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Impulsive is not proactive, that's my take.

Oh I agree.  I'm just saying, I think he thought he was being proactive.  I mean, look at his speech to the group.  It was lets get them before they get us.  He just executed it poorly.

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34 minutes ago, JiF said:

Oh I agree.  I'm just saying, I think he thought he was being proactive.  I mean, look at his speech to the group.  It was lets get them before they get us.  He just executed it poorly.

Good point.

I just wonder if, now that Michone is his ****-buddy, given that the last 2 women he loved are dead, he's acting out of paranoia and justifying it to himself by selling others on this pre-emptive "kill them before they kill us" mindset.

Curious to see how it play out. 

Personally, I'm not Rick "fan", and I believe more often than not his leadership is terrible and culminates in more bad than good... so I wonder if that'll get exposed more now to the broader audience. It sets the table for Negan to be the true great leader, making Rick the bad guy, and Rick's people the unsuspecting accomplices to him.

All speculation of course, I don't read the comics or fanboy theories on the web. I'm just thinking, damn, this show is overdue to be turned on its head.

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4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Good point.

I just wonder if, now that Michone is his ****-buddy, given that the last 2 women he loved are dead, he's acting out of paranoia and justifying it to himself by selling others on this pre-emptive "kill them before they kill us" mindset.

Curious to see how it play out. 

Personally, I'm not Rick "fan", and I believe more often than not his leadership is terrible and culminates in more bad than good... so I wonder if that'll get exposed more now to the broader audience. It sets the table for Negan to be the true great leader, making Rick the bad guy, and Rick's people the unsuspecting accomplices to him.

All speculation of course, I don't read the comics or fanboy theories on the web. I'm just thinking, damn, this show is overdue to be turned on its head.

Possibly...but I feel that would be some serious waste and a deviation from the story and character development if they ended up making Rick the bad guy and Negan the hero. We already know Negan's introduction and how he handles working with other factions.  Rick has never been that nasty.  He's always given people the benefit of the doubt before all else ie: Jesus.  Not introduce himself by bashing someone's skull in with a baseball bat and demanding half of everything.

I dont follow the comics, but ultimately we're going to see Rick defeat Negan.  Me thinks.  I wonder if that's where it ends though. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, JiF said:

Possibly...but I feel that would be some serious waste and a deviation from the story and character development if they ended up making Rick the bad guy and Negan the hero. We already know Negan's introduction and how he handles working with other factions.  Rick has never been that nasty.  He's always given people the benefit of the doubt before all else ie: Jesus.  Not introduce himself by bashing someone's skull in with a baseball bat and demanding half of everything.

I dont follow the comics, but ultimately we're going to see Rick defeat Negan.  Me thinks.  I wonder if that's where it ends though. 

 

 

In the scene where they were choosing which head to use as teh fake head, the Hilltop guy says "The Saviors are crazy, but they ain't got nothing on you" to Rick. Or something to that effect. Anyway, I think that was very intentional.

I also disagree, we've seen Rick bounce from "give everyone a chance" to "blood lust" to "kill first, ask questions later" throughout his arc. I don't think I'm right in my prediction, but I do think they opened the door to the possibility... which is a credit to the writers, imo. They aren't boxing themselves into an obvious and forced way to resolve the open story lines. They have options.

Ultimately, neither of them are "good"... but it becomes about righteousness. If Negan emerges as the guy with the group's best interests in mind, while Rick is driven by his selfish, stubborn, and paranoid state of mind, then I do believe the writers have an opportunity to challenge the audience with a dilemma of admitting Rick may not be the hero anymore... and that's what AMC shows are all about, moral dilemma. It's not something Rick couldn't come back from either. Which is what's so cool about it.

Also, they've spent 2 seasons building up to Negan. Do you really think they kill him right after they introduce him in this season's finale? I don't. I think Negan is this season's cliffhanger, I think he takes the upper hand, we're going to lose a well-liked character, and then next season will be all about who wins: Rick or Negan?

 

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15 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

In the scene where they were choosing which head to use as teh fake head, the Hilltop guy says "The Saviors are crazy, but they ain't got nothing on you" to Rick. Or something to that effect. Anyway, I think that was very intentional.

I also disagree, we've seen Rick bounce from "give everyone a chance" to "blood lust" to "kill first, ask questions later" throughout his arc. I don't think I'm right in my prediction, but I do think they opened the door to the possibility... which is a credit to the writers, imo. They aren't boxing themselves into an obvious and forced way to resolve the open story lines. They have options.

Ultimately, neither of them are "good"... but it becomes about righteousness. If Negan emerges as the guy with the group's best interests in mind, while Rick is driven by his selfish, stubborn, and paranoid state of mind, then I do believe the writers have an opportunity to challenge the audience with a dilemma of admitting Rick may not be the hero anymore... and that's what AMC shows are all about, moral dilemma. It's not something Rick couldn't come back from either. Which is what's so cool about it.

Also, they've spent 2 seasons building up to Negan. Do you really think they kill him right after they introduce him in this season's finale? I don't. I think Negan is this season's cliffhanger, I think he takes the upper hand, we're going to lose a well-liked character, and then next season will be all about who wins: Rick or Negan?

 

Great take.  And I dont disagree at all now that you've broke it down like that...you're probably right.  Someone they love is going to die because of this and there is going to be a conversation for sure about who has everyone's best interest in mind...Rick or Negan?

I guess I was thinking about the Rick that always asks, how many walkers have you killed, how many people have you killed?

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16 minutes ago, JiF said:

Great take.  And I dont disagree at all now that you've broke it down like that...you're probably right.  Someone they love is going to die because of this and there is going to be a conversation for sure about who has everyone's best interest in mind...Rick or Negan?

I guess I was thinking about the Rick that always asks, how many walkers have you killed, how many people have you killed?

Yeah, interesting that he doesn't really ask anymore.... because, sh*t, look at his body count. He has become what he was trying to protect his group from. Didn't someone this week or last week begin asking the "how many..." questions, and Rick stopped them from asking and said, "no, not this guy" or something like that?

Rick's the biggest monster on the show... but the writer's are toying with the fans, making him the anti-hero that we've been with since the opening scene, you don't want to abandon what hope and goodness you projected into his character, despite that fact that he's become pretty deplorable. 

AMC's recipe for great TV: moral dilemma.

If every character is bad, then you have to choose which of your own ethics/morals you are willing to compromise in support of your "favorite". It worked with Don Draper. It worked with Walter White, Mike, Jesse Pinkman.

It's just a winning formula. I love it.

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14 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Yeah, interesting that he doesn't really ask anymore.... because, sh*t, look at his body count. He has become what he was trying to protect his group from. Didn't someone this week or last week begin asking the "how many..." questions, and Rick stopped them from asking and said, "no, not this guy" or something like that?

Rick's the biggest monster on the show... but the writer's are toying with the fans, making him the anti-hero that we've been with since the opening scene, you don't want to abandon what hope and goodness you projected into his character, despite that fact that he's become pretty deplorable. 

AMC's recipe for great TV: moral dilemma.

If every character is bad, then you have to choose which of your own ethics/morals you are willing to compromise in support of your "favorite". It worked with Don Draper. It worked with Walter White, Mike, Jesse Pinkman.

It's just a winning formula. I love it.

No doubt.  They definitely keep you hanging on the edge of your seat. 

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1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Yeah, interesting that he doesn't really ask anymore.... because, sh*t, look at his body count. He has become what he was trying to protect his group from. Didn't someone this week or last week begin asking the "how many..." questions, and Rick stopped them from asking and said, "no, not this guy" or something like that?

Rick's the biggest monster on the show... but the writer's are toying with the fans, making him the anti-hero that we've been with since the opening scene, you don't want to abandon what hope and goodness you projected into his character, despite that fact that he's become pretty deplorable. 

AMC's recipe for great TV: moral dilemma.

If every character is bad, then you have to choose which of your own ethics/morals you are willing to compromise in support of your "favorite". It worked with Don Draper. It worked with Walter White, Mike, Jesse Pinkman.

It's just a winning formula. I love it.

 

AMC seems to love the Heinz dilemma.  I didn't watch Mad Men, but it's the moral storyline of both the Walking Dead and Breaking Bad.

I think that continues more than Rick v. Negan for good guy which would just be another instance of the group doubting Rick and his methods, siding with someone else, and then realizing they need him, and he saves the day but not without significant loss.  We just saw it with Alexandria (peace vs. war) and we'd seen it before that too.

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9 minutes ago, gEYno said:

 

AMC seems to love the Heinz dilemma.  I didn't watch Mad Men, but it's the moral storyline of both the Walking Dead and Breaking Bad.

I think that continues more than Rick v. Negan for good guy which would just be another instance of the group doubting Rick and his methods, siding with someone else, and then realizing they need him, and he saves the day but not without significant loss.  We just saw it with Alexandria (peace vs. war) and we'd seen it before that too.

Oh, this is cool. I had never heard of this before. I've been carrying on for years over this moral dilemma theory,  just as my own observation for the AMC model. This gives me better context for explaining it to folks. Thanks!

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21 hours ago, gEYno said:

 

AMC seems to love the Heinz dilemma.  I didn't watch Mad Men, but it's the moral storyline of both the Walking Dead and Breaking Bad.

I think that continues more than Rick v. Negan for good guy which would just be another instance of the group doubting Rick and his methods, siding with someone else, and then realizing they need him, and he saves the day but not without significant loss.  We just saw it with Alexandria (peace vs. war) and we'd seen it before that too.

Had to google Heinz dilemma - this is a good point on the situation. 

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23 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Oh, this is cool. I had never heard of this before. I've been carrying on for years over this moral dilemma theory,  just as my own observation for the AMC model. This gives me better context for explaining it to folks. Thanks!

 

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Had to google Heinz dilemma - this is a good point on the situation. 

Oh, so I guess I'm the only Psychologist/one studying for the Psychology licensing exam?  Fine.

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57 minutes ago, gEYno said:

 

Oh, so I guess I'm the only Psychologist/one studying for the Psychology licensing exam?  Fine.

I'm only a psychologist when it comes to dressing down insecure putzes on the internet. 

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On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 8:43 AM, Integrity28 said:

In the scene where they were choosing which head to use as teh fake head, the Hilltop guy says "The Saviors are crazy, but they ain't got nothing on you" to Rick. Or something to that effect. Anyway, I think that was very intentional.

I also disagree, we've seen Rick bounce from "give everyone a chance" to "blood lust" to "kill first, ask questions later" throughout his arc. I don't think I'm right in my prediction, but I do think they opened the door to the possibility... which is a credit to the writers, imo. They aren't boxing themselves into an obvious and forced way to resolve the open story lines. They have options.

Ultimately, neither of them are "good"... but it becomes about righteousness. If Negan emerges as the guy with the group's best interests in mind, while Rick is driven by his selfish, stubborn, and paranoid state of mind, then I do believe the writers have an opportunity to challenge the audience with a dilemma of admitting Rick may not be the hero anymore... and that's what AMC shows are all about, moral dilemma. It's not something Rick couldn't come back from either. Which is what's so cool about it.

Also, they've spent 2 seasons building up to Negan. Do you really think they kill him right after they introduce him in this season's finale? I don't. I think Negan is this season's cliffhanger, I think he takes the upper hand, we're going to lose a well-liked character, and then next season will be all about who wins: Rick or Negan?

I think we will have about two season's of Negan.  That was the arc of the Governor's storyline.  And Negan seems to have a lot more story possibilities.

As far as Rick being seen as evil, I am not quite there.  I could see some blowback as the attack on Negan fails as he under estimates Negan.  Maggie, Daryl, Glen, Michoone and Carol have all 'challenged' Rick in some form.    I think some or all of them will tell him he f'd up badly.

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4 hours ago, PFSIKH said:

If this is legit, sh*ts about to go down.

I am liking the Jeffrey Dean Morgan even more.

very cool, not exactly what I pictured though, In the comics Negan looks younger , he's immature in a way like a real bad ass version of Ben Afflecks character in Dazed and Confused, ..the creator apparently based him on Henry Rollins…its gonna be deep, I could see it covering 3 full seasons.

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21 hours ago, Jolot said:

very cool, not exactly what I pictured though, In the comics Negan looks younger , he's immature in a way like a real bad ass version of Ben Afflecks character in Dazed and Confused, ..the creator apparently based him on Henry Rollins…its gonna be deep, I could see it covering 3 full seasons.

Damn!

That would help the comic separate from the TV series.

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Another great episode.   I knew they'd weasel their way out but I was really thinking that someone would be left behind to tell the story and talk about Rick to Negan.  Though I do love how the two crews are still a bit of mystery to each other. 

So as of now, Rick's crew has completely embarrassed Negan's crew.  Every single run in so far, Rick's crew has just out right owned them.  And now they have their guns too?  But, you have to assume Negan has more.  The writers have really made them look like a bunch of blow hard tough guys with no substance.  I wonder how much of Negan's crew is made up ordinary people (like Alexandria) as opposed to bad ass mofo's who have had to endure to stay alive?  So far, they've portrayed them as mad ass mofo's but Rick's crew keeps getting the upper hand. Each scene, they've talked a tough game but got their ass whipped. 

Carrol is the best character on the show, hands down.  The character building they're doing with her is outstanding.  She's by far had the most complex story line of them all.  You have to wonder how much Morgan's pussification is influencing her. If he never showed, would she just be as ruthless as ever?  I loved when she told the Red Head, "you dont want me to go back to my normal code" or whatever words she used.  So awesome. I want to have her babies. 

It's going to be real interesting to see the following:

- how big is Negan's crew?

- what does their "base" operations looks like, considering they were over a half hour away trying to get to that hide out.

- what's the retaliation

- how is The Hilltop going to respond to Rick's crew?  They obviously know he hasnt killed Negan.  Does Rick's crew?

- how does Negan respond to the Hill Top since they technically dont know about Alexandria.

- who gets the bat treatment and how?

- I wonder how many more factions are out there that Jesus knows about but hasnt shared?

 

 

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9 minutes ago, JiF said:

Another great episode.   I knew they'd weasel their way out but I was really thinking that someone would be left behind to tell the story and talk about Rick to Negan.  Though I do love how the two crews are still a bit of mystery to each other. 

So as of now, Rick's crew has completely embarrassed Negan's crew.  Every single run in so far, Rick's crew has just out right owned them.  And now they have their guns too?  But, you have to assume Negan has more.  The writers have really made them look like a bunch of blow hard tough guys with no substance.  I wonder how much of Negan's crew is made up ordinary people (like Alexandria) as opposed to bad ass mofo's who have had to endure to stay alive?  So far, they've portrayed them as mad ass mofo's but Rick's crew keeps getting the upper hand. Each scene, they've talked a tough game but got their ass whipped. 

Carrol is the best character on the show, hands down.  The character building they're doing with her is outstanding.  She's by far had the most complex story line of them all.  You have to wonder how much Morgan's pussification is influencing her. If he never showed, would she just be as ruthless as ever?  I loved when she told the Red Head, "you dont want me to go back to my normal code" or whatever words she used.  So awesome. I want to have her babies. 

It's going to be real interesting to see the following:

- how big is Negan's crew?

- what does their "base" operations looks like, considering they were over a half hour away trying to get to that hide out.

- what's the retaliation

- how is The Hilltop going to respond to Rick's crew?  They obviously know he hasnt killed Negan.  Does Rick's crew?

- how does Negan respond to the Hill Top since they technically dont know about Alexandria.

- who gets the bat treatment and how?

- I wonder how many more factions are out there that Jesus knows about but hasnt shared?

I agree and I agree with most of your post.

The part I will disagree with is and it is more a case of semantics is owning Negan's crew. 

They have managed to get the drop on Negan's crew in the first two encounters and trying to cover two people with 3.5 people is not easy when you have to cover so much ground..

I was more impressed with his crew, even given what happened at the 'kill house', they moved and communicated with a military like precision.  They are a lot more organized than Rick's crew.  They had protocols for when communication is compromised.

Negan's crew seems to be pretty vigilant, Rick's tactics are only going to last so long.

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

Another great episode.   I knew they'd weasel their way out but I was really thinking that someone would be left behind to tell the story and talk about Rick to Negan.  Though I do love how the two crews are still a bit of mystery to each other. 

So as of now, Rick's crew has completely embarrassed Negan's crew.  Every single run in so far, Rick's crew has just out right owned them.  And now they have their guns too?  But, you have to assume Negan has more.  The writers have really made them look like a bunch of blow hard tough guys with no substance.  I wonder how much of Negan's crew is made up ordinary people (like Alexandria) as opposed to bad ass mofo's who have had to endure to stay alive?  So far, they've portrayed them as mad ass mofo's but Rick's crew keeps getting the upper hand. Each scene, they've talked a tough game but got their ass whipped. 

Carrol is the best character on the show, hands down.  The character building they're doing with her is outstanding.  She's by far had the most complex story line of them all.  You have to wonder how much Morgan's pussification is influencing her. If he never showed, would she just be as ruthless as ever?  I loved when she told the Red Head, "you dont want me to go back to my normal code" or whatever words she used.  So awesome. I want to have her babies. 

It's going to be real interesting to see the following:

- how big is Negan's crew?

- what does their "base" operations looks like, considering they were over a half hour away trying to get to that hide out.

- what's the retaliation

- how is The Hilltop going to respond to Rick's crew?  They obviously know he hasnt killed Negan.  Does Rick's crew?

- how does Negan respond to the Hill Top since they technically dont know about Alexandria.

- who gets the bat treatment and how?

- I wonder how many more factions are out there that Jesus knows about but hasnt shared?

 

 

Based on what I've read and seen, Negan's base is large and substantial. In the comics I think it was an old high school.

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3 hours ago, Fishooked said:

Based on what I've read and seen, Negan's base is large and substantial. In the comics I think it was an old high school.

Interesting...though it seems the show is deviating from the Comics, no?  I dont read the comics but everything I've heard is while its similar and follows the overall story, the show goes it own way.  

I mean, at this point, how many of the Saviors have they killed?  It has to be at least near 20 people, right?  How big of a crew could it be?

And I think the biggest mystery I have if it is significantly larger, where did they all come from?  Like how did the Saviors find all these people. 

It does appear that they operate in groups though.  

 

 

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5 hours ago, PFSIKH said:

I agree and I agree with most of your post.

The part I will disagree with is and it is more a case of semantics is owning Negan's crew. 

They have managed to get the drop on Negan's crew in the first two encounters and trying to cover two people with 3.5 people is not easy when you have to cover so much ground..

I was more impressed with his crew, even given what happened at the 'kill house', they moved and communicated with a military like precision.  They are a lot more organized than Rick's crew.  They had protocols for when communication is compromised.

Negan's crew seems to be pretty vigilant, Rick's tactics are only going to last so long.

Like I said in the post above, the body count is pretty high.  I'd say they've owned them so far.  Both times any of Rick's crew were "caught" by the Saviors, Ricks crew took them ALL out.  No survivors.  I assume they've got a lot more Saviors because otherwise, that type of carnage would have pretty much been the headcount of any other faction they've faced. 

While I agree that Negan's crew seems vigilant and somewhat organized, they're not as savvy when it comes to execution.  I mean, even in the raid...the ones who woke up, got destroyed.  And then the ones that showed up at the place they were holding Maggie and Carol, fell for some stupid sh*t and got burned to death.  The people that found Maggie and Carrol, should have just killed them immediately.  I mean for **** sake, they just murdered an entire camp of people and you trying to do a swap for one person? If they're so cold blooded they wouldnt have dicked around over 1 person.

Or maybe its just the fact they havent faced anything like Rick's crew that has been through hell and back.  It's almost like they're too confident and the second they let down their guard, BOOM (literally), they're all dead.  Maybe some of Negan's influence, I assume?  Like I said, they're kind of blowhards.  Both times they've caught the crew, they tried to be bad ass and talk a big game but got owned by slipping. 

p.s. - I love all the subtle hints at Negan's ways that the writers have been hinting at....the chopped off finger for stealing, killing 1 person upon meeting a new crew, the heads bashed in pictures, "we're all Negan", he only wants pussy that's willing, he owns half of everything you own...just good damn writing. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

Like I said in the post above, the body count is pretty high.  I'd say they've owned them so far.  Both times any of Rick's crew were "caught" by the Saviors, Ricks crew took them ALL out.  No survivors.  I assume they've got a lot more Saviors because otherwise, that type of carnage would have pretty much been the headcount of any other faction they've faced. 

While I agree that Negan's crew seems vigilant and somewhat organized, they're not as savvy when it comes to execution.  I mean, even in the raid...the ones who woke up, got destroyed.  And then the ones that showed up at the place they were holding Maggie and Carol, fell for some stupid sh*t and got burned to death.  The people that found Maggie and Carrol, should have just killed them immediately.  I mean for **** sake, they just murdered an entire camp of people and you trying to do a swap for one person? If they're so cold blooded they wouldnt have dicked around over 1 person.

Or maybe its just the fact they havent faced anything like Rick's crew that has been through hell and back.  It's almost like they're too confident and the second they let down their guard, BOOM (literally), they're all dead.  Maybe some of Negan's influence, I assume?  Like I said, they're kind of blowhards.  Both times they've caught the crew, they tried to be bad ass and talk a big game but got owned by slipping. 

p.s. - I love all the subtle hints at Negan's ways that the writers have been hinting at....the chopped off finger for stealing, killing 1 person upon meeting a new crew, the heads bashed in pictures, "we're all Negan", he only wants pussy that's willing, he owns half of everything you own...just good damn writing. 

I think it is more of this. 

Your second paragraph is a bit of a pet peeve of mine of the show.  For example, Abraham/Sasha/Daryl's encounter. The Saviors have them disarmed and 6-7 other guys.  How about you send more than one guy. I have less of an issue with the group that captured Maggie/Carol.  One guy was wounded.  Moll was coughing blood and looks like she would fall victim to rulle #1 of a zombie apocalypse. 

Notice in the clip above, Negan's bat.  Remember what Jesus said.  Something to the effect of, "he killed a 16 year old right off the bat."

Again, I do not disagree with what you said, I think it is the writer's playing it down.

 

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13 hours ago, JiF said:

Interesting...though it seems the show is deviating from the Comics, no?  I dont read the comics but everything I've heard is while its similar and follows the overall story, the show goes it own way.  

I mean, at this point, how many of the Saviors have they killed?  It has to be at least near 20 people, right?  How big of a crew could it be?

And I think the biggest mystery I have if it is significantly larger, where did they all come from?  Like how did the Saviors find all these people. 

It does appear that they operate in groups though.  

 

 

The show and comics diverge in & out from each other; the last two episodes were not in the comics at all. The Saviors are a substantially large group, and I suspect they gain members from other communities or folks they find on the road. Join us and we'll offer you protection, but don't expect to have any real civil liberties or freedom. 

Negan and his group will provide, but if you don't follow his rules or dogma you're going to get killed. Most of his group is probably an amalgamation of other people, most of which simply follow along because of fear; fear of Negan, and fear of the outside world or being out on your own. He does have a core group of soldiers if you will whom are fiercely loyal to him, but I don't think the vast majority of his community is on his side. 

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4 hours ago, Fishooked said:

The show and comics diverge in & out from each other; the last two episodes were not in the comics at all. The Saviors are a substantially large group, and I suspect they gain members from other communities or folks they find on the road. Join us and we'll offer you protection, but don't expect to have any real civil liberties or freedom. 

Negan and his group will provide, but if you don't follow his rules or dogma you're going to get killed. Most of his group is probably an amalgamation of other people, most of which simply follow along because of fear; fear of Negan, and fear of the outside world or being out on your own. He does have a core group of soldiers if you will whom are fiercely loyal to him, but I don't think the vast majority of his community is on his side. 

That's what I'm guessing.  Clearly not everyone is into how he leads considering last seasons episode with the defectors from his crew.

So maybe the Negan story arc is about how Rick can tear him apart from the inside out?

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35 minutes ago, JiF said:

That's what I'm guessing.  Clearly not everyone is into how he leads considering last seasons episode with the defectors from his crew.

So maybe the Negan story arc is about how Rick can tear him apart from the inside out?

I don't recall since it had been awhile since I read them. Not exactly, but there are people in Negan's group that aren't happy with the way things are run. 

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20 hours ago, JiF said:

Or maybe its just the fact they havent faced anything like Rick's crew that has been through hell and back.  It's almost like they're too confident and the second they let down their guard, BOOM (literally), they're all dead.  Maybe some of Negan's influence, I assume?  Like I said, they're kind of blowhards.  Both times they've caught the crew, they tried to be bad ass and talk a big game but got owned by slipping. 

p.s. - I love all the subtle hints at Negan's ways that the writers have been hinting at....the chopped off finger for stealing, killing 1 person upon meeting a new crew, the heads bashed in pictures, "we're all Negan", he only wants pussy that's willing, he owns half of everything you own...just good damn writing. 

I think that this is what we're seeing.  They're used to being the bully against little resistance.  Probably haven't been in an all out war - which Rick and co. have.

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3 hours ago, Fishooked said:

I don't recall since it had been awhile since I read them. Not exactly, but there are people in Negan's group that aren't happy with the way things are run. 

Just a thought...who knows.  I'm definitely intrigued.  Like I said, its clear not everyone appreciates his ways based on the run that Darryl had last season with defectors.  I cant remember what they said but it was basically like he's crazy...blah blah blah

7 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I think that this is what we're seeing.  They're used to being the bully against little resistance.  Probably haven't been in an all out war - which Rick and co. have.

That's what I'm thinking.  They've been able to push over anyone they've faced, till now.

Anyone ever wonder how many survivors are in other states?  This has just covered Georgia, right?  haha

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11 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I think that this is what we're seeing.  They're used to being the bully against little resistance.  Probably haven't been in an all out war - which Rick and co. have.

Funny you should mention that phrase, these are the volumes that specifically go into their war with Negan - 

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/walkingdead/images/6/6a/AOW_Part_One_Cover.png/revision/latest?cb=20141021050547

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/walkingdead/images/9/93/Alloutwarpt2.png/revision/latest?cb=20140417222311

 

 

 

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