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James Harrison excused from practice, contemplating retirement


Bergen Jet

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But he really didn't do that at all.

Your point is well taken, but he didn’t leave his feet. That is what they are talking about when they say launch.

And now here's the double standard and why I said Connor would be broke. On the film below, you tell me what Connor does on this block...pay attention to what the announcer says...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81b673eb/LT-20-yard-TD

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Right...and what exactly is James Harrison going to do for a living when he "retires" from the NFL. Give me a friggin break. Unless he's saved every cent he's made so far and is willing to live in the mountains like Ricky Williams then he's not going anywhere.

Exactly. What a bunch of posturing.

Harrison has made 20 mil over the last 3 years and hes going to up and walk away because of a 75k fine. Okaaaay :rolleyes:

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And now here's the double standard and why I said Connor would be broke. On the film below, you tell me what Connor does on this block...pay attention to what the announcer says...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81b673eb/LT-20-yard-TD

He lowered his head but he didn't hit the guy with his head. Connor clearly leads with his shoulder and blocks the guy using proper technique. A huge part of what makes Connor so effective as a blocker is that he employs better technique than most and part of that is NOT leading with his head.

I was always taught that you don't lead with your head to protect yourself first and foremost.

The reason the Eric LeGrand of Rutgers got injured as badly as he did is because he used terrible technique on that play and tried to put his head through the other guy. He wound up compressing his own spine.

The NFL needs to stress that part of the benefit of enforcing this rule is to protect players from themselves. If Harrison keeps hitting the people the way he does, he's gonna end up just like Eric LeGrand.

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He lowered his head but he didn't hit the guy with his head. Connor clearly leads with his shoulder and blocks the guy using proper technique. A huge part of what makes Connor so effective as a blocker is that he employs better technique than most and part of that is NOT leading with his head.

I was always taught that you don't lead with your head to protect yourself first and foremost.

The reason the Eric LeGrand of Rutgers got injured as badly as he did is because he used terrible technique on that play and tried to put his head through the other guy. He wound up compressing his own spine.

The NFL needs to stress that part of the benefit of enforcing this rule is to protect players from themselves. If Harrison keeps hitting the people the way he does, he's gonna end up just like Eric LeGrand.

Wow, you are such a homer you cant even see obvious truth. If this was any other player on any other team, you'd be in 100% agreement with me because only someone looking to turn a blind eye is going to tell me he didnt lead with his helmet. He got through the hole, lowered his head, and went right at the defender's head with his helmet, the announcer even says it dude...you are too much sometimes.

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Wow, you are such a homer you cant even see obvious truth. If this was any other player on any other team, you'd be in 100% agreement with me because only someone looking to turn a blind eye is going to tell me he didnt lead with his helmet. He got through the hole, lowered his head, and went right at the defender's head with his helmet, the announcer even says it dude...you are too much sometimes.

Stop with the homer crap already and open your friggin eyes! Connor turns his head to the side and leads with his shoulder and its as clear as facking day. Watch it again pal and don't listent to a moron like Dan Dierdorf. Connor absolutely does NOT lead with his head. His head clearly goes to the side and he throws his shoulder into the defender.

Again, this has nothing to do with being a homer this has to do with having a sense of vision.

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Stop with the homer crap already and open your friggin eyes! Connor turns his head to the side and leads with his shoulder and its as clear as facking day. Watch it again pal and don't listent to a moron like Dan Dierdorf. Connor absolutely does NOT lead with his head. His head clearly goes to the side and he throws his shoulder into the defender.

Again, this has nothing to do with being a homer this has to do with having a sense of vision.

Then you arent wearing you glasses because its plain to see.

Homer - biggest homer on the planet.

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And now here's the double standard and why I said Connor would be broke. On the film below, you tell me what Connor does on this block...pay attention to what the announcer says...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81b673eb/LT-20-yard-TD

Head Lowered [X]

Helmt to Helmet Collision [X]

Klacko = Homer [X]

Now that this is resolved, I don't understand what you are argueing about. Is someone saying the jets aren't likely to be effected by the new rule for some reason?

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Head Lowered [X]

Helmt to Helmet Collision [X]

Klacko = Homer [X]

Now that this is resolved, I don't understand what you are argueing about. Is someone saying the jets aren't likely to be effected by the new rule for some reason?

Isn't every team going to be affected by the new rule?

I think Jiffy's argument is that offensive players are not subject to these rules and his mind they should be. The reality is they really are. Maybe not in the case of Connor's block, which is only helmet to helmet if you are blind and/or retarded and therefore can't tell the difference between a shoulder and a helmet, but if there is a change of possession on a fumble or INT, I am sure if an offensive player takes out a defender with his helmet like Merriweather tried to do with Heap they will be fined and/or suspended.

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Head Lowered [X]

Helmt to Helmet Collision [X]

Klacko = Homer [X]

Now that this is resolved, I don't understand what you are argueing about. Is someone saying the jets aren't likely to be effected by the new rule for some reason?

My point is there is a double standard. Offense doesnt get flagged and if they were to, Connor would get fined and flagged for the plays I've shown where clearly launches at a player to deliver a devastating blow and when he clearly leads with his helmet.

Funny how 2 people see the same thing on film, but homerhead see's it differently. I wonder if we discussing Polite from the Dolphags if he'd be taking the same stance. Me thinks not.

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My point is there is a double standard. Offense doesnt get flagged and if they were to, Connor would get fined and flagged for the plays I've shown where clearly launches at a player to deliver a devastating blow and when he clearly leads with his helmet.

Funny how 2 people see the same thing on film, but homerhead see's it differently. I wonder if we discussing Polite from the Dolphags if he'd be taking the same stance. Me thinks not.

You insist on using this word "launch." To me that means the guy essentially dives at someone, turning their body into a missile while leading with their head. Connor doesn't really leave his feet on either one of those plays and if he does it's barely.

I think the Connor plays are horrible examples of what you are trying to prove because I don't see anything he did on any of them that is remotely objectionable.

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My point is there is a double standard. Offense doesnt get flagged and if they were to, Connor would get fined and flagged for the plays I've shown where clearly launches at a player to deliver a devastating blow and when he clearly leads with his helmet.

Funny how 2 people see the same thing on film, but homerhead see's it differently. I wonder if we discussing Polite from the Dolphags if he'd be taking the same stance. Me thinks not.

If Polite did the same thing Connor did I would be calling you crazy just the same as I am now.

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My point is there is a double standard. Offense doesnt get flagged and if they were to, Connor would get fined and flagged for the plays I've shown where clearly launches at a player to deliver a devastating blow and when he clearly leads with his helmet.

Funny how 2 people see the same thing on film, but homerhead see's it differently. I wonder if we discussing Polite from the Dolphags if he'd be taking the same stance. Me thinks not.

:06 mark and :40 mark.

Polite makes hits that are almost identical to Connor's. Nothing wrong with either of them.

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My point is there is a double standard. Offense doesnt get flagged and if they were to, Connor would get fined and flagged for the plays I've shown where clearly launches at a player to deliver a devastating blow and when he clearly leads with his helmet.

Funny how 2 people see the same thing on film, but homerhead see's it differently. I wonder if we discussing Polite from the Dolphags if he'd be taking the same stance. Me thinks not.

What? This has to be the most misunderstood thing the NFL has ever done. THE RULES HAVENT CHANGED only the punishment has. Conner does not launch himself at a defenseless receiver with the crown of his helmet. That is what the NFL is trying to avoid.

It's obvious its a bye week for us because of how much this topic is throwing people into a little fit on these forums, nothing better to talk about. This is not a big deal and I think it will be better defined once some a$$hole trys to test the league by launching himself with his head first to the head of another player and misses a game.

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My point is there is a double standard. Offense doesnt get flagged and if they were to, Connor would get fined and flagged for the plays I've shown where clearly launches at a player to deliver a devastating blow and when he clearly leads with his helmet.

Funny how 2 people see the same thing on film, but homerhead see's it differently. I wonder if we discussing Polite from the Dolphags if he'd be taking the same stance. Me thinks not.

I don't see Conner launching, and I'd need to see another angle to definitively show that he's leading with his helmet. They don't look like spearing plays to me.

Most of these hits the league are talking about are on receivers who are unable to protect themselves. Their eyes are on the football, and they need to be in a certain place to make the play, and they're getting walloped while essentially defenseless. A LB isn't in the same position when the Terminator is coming at him on a rushing play. He's fully capable of defending himself there. Same thing with the KO coverage block - he's hitting a player who should be watching the whole field, and should be able to see Conner coming. There are rules against blindside blocks, while defenders are obviously allowed to tackle a ball carrier from his blindside. Offensive linemen can't use their hands, but defenders can. There have always been rule differences for each side of the ball.

I think if you see a pass in the air with a defender in position to catch it and the intended receiver leads with his head to break the play up, you'll see the penalty/fine come down on the offensive player there.

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What? This has to be the most misunderstood thing the NFL has ever done. THE RULES HAVENT CHANGED only the punishment has. Conner does not launch himself at a defenseless receiver with the crown of his helmet. That is what the NFL is trying to avoid.

It's obvious its a bye week for us because of how much this topic is throwing people into a little fit on these forums, nothing better to talk about. This is not a big deal and I think it will be better defined once some a$$hole trys to test the league by launching himself with his head first to the head of another player and misses a game.

I never said the rule changed, its being enforced more than it ever has before and now there are new punishments, which are hypocritical to begin with. You cant fine these players for what you glorify. Also there is double standard and if it was to be policed on offense, Connor would be a victim. I'm basically just trying to show you and homer's like Klacko, that the rule is ridiculous, hard to police and is clearly open for interpretation.

If you don't like the conversation, then bug off and dont join in. IMO its a very serious situation and the NFL is looking like a bunch of assholes right now and the backlash from its players is not one that any organization under the public microscope would chose to have.

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I never said the rule changed, its being enforced more than it ever has before and now there are new punishments, which are hypocritical to begin with. You cant fine these players for what you glorify. Also there is double standard and if it was to be policed on offense, Connor would be a victim. I'm basically just trying to show you and homer's like Klacko, that the rule is ridiculous, hard to police and is clearly open for interpretation.

If you don't like the conversation, then bug off and dont join in. IMO its a very serious situation and the NFL is looking like a bunch of assholes right now and the backlash from its players is not one that any organization under the public microscope would chose to have.

Connor wouldn't and Polite wouldn't. Nobody in their right mind would consider any of the hits by either one of them that are in this thread dirty.

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I never said the rule changed, its being enforced more than it ever has before and now there are new punishments, which are hypocritical to begin with. You cant fine these players for what you glorify. Also there is double standard and if it was to be policed on offense, Connor would be a victim. I'm basically just trying to show you and homer's like Klacko, that the rule is ridiculous, hard to police and is clearly open for interpretation.

If you don't like the conversation, then bug off and dont join in. IMO its a very serious situation and the NFL is looking like a bunch of assholes right now and the backlash from its players is not one that any organization under the public microscope would chose to have.

LOL ok. They're doing whats right and protecting their players from dirty plays that are illegal. Harrison is a douchebag and so is Meriweather and I have no ******* problem with them being fined. If you launch yourself with the crown of your helmet at someone, your suspended. Thats not the way the game has always been played nor is it how the game was intended to be played. The only issue I have with this is hoping that when they review the plays that they do look specifically for intent to injure, which those 2 players I just mentioned CLEARLY had.

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I don't see Conner launching, and I'd need to see another angle to definitively show that he's leading with his helmet. They don't look like spearing plays to me.

Most of these hits the league are talking about are on receivers who are unable to protect themselves. Their eyes are on the football, and they need to be in a certain place to make the play, and they're getting walloped while essentially defenseless. A LB isn't in the same position when the Terminator is coming at him on a rushing play. He's fully capable of defending himself there. Same thing with the KO coverage block - he's hitting a player who should be watching the whole field, and should be able to see Conner coming. There are rules against blindside blocks, while defenders are obviously allowed to tackle a ball carrier from his blindside. Offensive linemen can't use their hands, but defenders can. There have always been rule differences for each side of the ball.

I think if you see a pass in the air with a defender in position to catch it and the intended receiver leads with his head to break the play up, you'll see the penalty/fine come down on the offensive player there.

I have an idea, if you are going to respond to my opinion on the matter, listen what I'm trying to say and instead arguing something I dont even care to debate.

Its all up for INTERPRETATION, thats all I'm saying. I view it this way, you view it that way, he views it this way, they view it that way. Too hard to police, hypocritical and there is a double standard. You guys are acting like I'm the only one that views it this way. Take a listen to the league and the players...90% of them agree with what I'm saying. There really shouldnt be this much opposition, its pretty plain to see.

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I have an idea, if you are going to respond to my opinion on the matter, listen what I'm trying to say and instead arguing something I dont even care to debate.

Its all up for INTERPRETATION, thats all I'm saying. I view it this way, you view it that way, he views it this way, they view it that way. Too hard to police, hypocritical and there is a double standard. You guys are acting like I'm the only one that views it this way. Take a listen to the league and the players...90% of them agree with what I'm saying. There really shouldnt be this much opposition, its pretty plain to see.

But to criticize this rule right now at this point is crazy. Lets see what they suspend someone for and then decide if they're "destroying the NFL". If they do a good job of policing it then its a smart plan and I see no issue with it. Players shouldnt be using their helmets as weapons, it was put their to protect them.

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LOL ok. They're doing whats right and protecting their players from dirty plays that are illegal. Harrison is a douchebag and so is Meriweather and I have no ******* problem with them being fined. If you launch yourself with the crown of your helmet at someone, your suspended. Thats not the way the game has always been played nor is it how the game was intended to be played. The only issue I have with this is hoping that when they review the plays that they do look specifically for intent to injure, which those 2 players I just mentioned CLEARLY had.

Great. I'm not arguing that...jeeezus. Leading with your helmet is wrong and shouldnt be legal. You are making me repeat myself by not reading what I've said.

The whole point is way beyond the fines. It effects play on the field. Jim Leonhard got flagged for a hit interpreted to be against the rules. That flag resulted in a extended drive that led to a go ahead TD. It could have cost the Jets the game and it was the wrong call because of how hard these hits are to police.

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Great. I'm not arguing that...jeeezus. Leading with your helmet is wrong and shouldnt be legal. You are making me repeat myself by not reading what I've said.

The whole point is way beyond the fines. It effects play on the field. Jim Leonhard got flagged for a hit interpreted to be against the rules. That flag resulted in a extended drive that led to a go ahead TD. It could have cost the Jets the game and it was the wrong call because of how hard these hits are to police.

Now you've got a valid argument.

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Great. I'm not arguing that...jeeezus. Leading with your helmet is wrong and shouldnt be legal. You are making me repeat myself by not reading what I've said.

The whole point is way beyond the fines. It effects play on the field. Jim Leonhard got flagged for a hit interpreted to be against the rules. That flag resulted in a extended drive that led to a go ahead TD. It could have cost the Jets the game and it was the wrong call because of how hard these hits are to police.

Ok I got ya, man. I didnt realize thats all you were arguing thats what I responded to above. It's really gonna depend on how they police this and what they say is suspendable and what is not. I dont think what theyre doingis a bad idea though, theyre in a tough spot because they want to keep the game the same but at the same time have an image that they have to deal with. I forget who it was on ESPN radio the other day but he listed two good reasons for this change outside of player protection. The first was that the NFL has had a growing number of female viewers and is trying to continue that growth and those illegal hit, which can lead to devastating injuries do not help draw them in. The second was that if a parent is watching with their kids and they see a hit like that Harrison hit, how many parents will want or allow their kids to play this sport?

I know both issues dont matter much to us as fans but unfortunately as a league those issues are important.

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Ok I got ya, man. I didnt realize thats all you were arguing thats what I responded to above. It's really gonna depend on how they police this and what they say is suspendable and what is not. I dont think what theyre doingis a bad idea though, theyre in a tough spot because they want to keep the game the same but at the same time have an image that they have to deal with. I forget who it was on ESPN radio the other day but he listed two good reasons for this change outside of player protection. The first was that the NFL has had a growing number of female viewers and is trying to continue that growth and those illegal hit, which can lead to devastating injuries do not help draw them in. The second was that if a parent is watching with their kids and they see a hit like that Harrison hit, how many parents will want or allow their kids to play this sport?

I know both issues dont matter much to us as fans but unfortunately as a league those issues are important.

Thing is, the violence of the sport has always been there. The risk has always been associated. Both my brothers blew their knee's out ending their careers playing Football. My mom, didnt want me to play, she was scared the same thing would happen. I didnt care and played anyway, but there were definitely long talks at the dinner table about should I be allowed to play. In the long run, I quit Football to concentrate on basketball because I was a better basketball player and I didnt want to run the risk of getting injured playing High School Football knowing I wasnt good enough to play at the next level.

Anyone that has ever watched or played the game at any level knows damn well what they are getting into and the allure will always be there. Football is HUGE around this country at the High School level. Some towns thats all they got and kids dream of wearing that Varsity jacket. Throw in the chance for a free education, the potential to play in the pro's and the sports popularity will remain.

The women angle is interesting, but I know girls that get off on the heavy hitting just as much as men.

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I have an idea, if you are going to respond to my opinion on the matter, listen what I'm trying to say and instead arguing something I dont even care to debate.

Its all up for INTERPRETATION, thats all I'm saying. I view it this way, you view it that way, he views it this way, they view it that way. Too hard to police, hypocritical and there is a double standard. You guys are acting like I'm the only one that views it this way. Take a listen to the league and the players...90% of them agree with what I'm saying. There really shouldnt be this much opposition, its pretty plain to see.

You seemed to be pretty upset that defenders would get called, but offensive players wouldn't - which is the point I chose to address. Maybe you missed my point. I don't see the double standard.

Everything I've read suggests that the rules aren't changing, but that penalties will be increasing. I'm not a fan of knee-jerk reactions, and I'm not in support of what the league is doing here, but I also don't think it's going to have a dramatic effect on what we see on the field.

Until they open up every call to replay interpretation there will be judgement calls on the field. The Leonhard hit was a bad call. Bad calls happen. This rule augmentation wouldn't effect the call on Leonhard one way or the other.

I'm not concerned what 90% of the players have to say, really. They're conditioned to be tough guys that say it's a violent game, blah, blah, blah. And it is, and I enjoy the big hits as much as anyone. But a moron like Channing Crowder talking about how he gets knocked out momentarily, wakes up dizzy, and keeps playing is not an ideal testimony for just letting the players play. As more information comes to light about the long term effects of concussions, this will continue to be a bigger and bigger deal.

Here's a five page article from the New York Times about football helmet safety and concussions from the pee-wee level up thru the pros. It's a big deal. I'm not a fan of this commissioner, but I understand him feeling like he needs to do something here.

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Thing is, the violence of the sport has always been there. The risk has always been associated. Both my brothers blew their knee's out ending their careers playing Football. My mom, didnt want me to play, she was scared the same thing would happen. I didnt care and played anyway, but there were definitely long talks at the dinner table about should I be allowed to play. In the long run, I quit Football to concentrate on basketball because I was a better basketball player and I didnt want to run the risk of getting injured playing High School Football knowing I wasnt good enough to play at the next level.

Anyone that has ever watched or played the game at any level knows damn well what they are getting into and the allure will always be there. Football is HUGE around this country at the High School level. Some towns thats all they got and kids dream of wearing that Varsity jacket. Throw in the chance for a free education, the potential to play in the pro's and the sports popularity will remain.

The women angle is interesting, but I know girls that get off on the heavy hitting just as much as men.

You're right, I cant argue with that and I in now way what so ever what it to be less physical or violent but only in a way thats LEGAL. The rules they have in place, which are the same, were fine expect for the fact that players who were making these spearing crown of the helmet hits don't give a sh*t about getting fined but they sure as sh*t will care about missing a game!

And the women thing I agree with too, thats just the leagues veiw on it but theres plenty of girls out there who LOVE seeing a huge hit.

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Great. I'm not arguing that...jeeezus. Leading with your helmet is wrong and shouldnt be legal. You are making me repeat myself by not reading what I've said.

The whole point is way beyond the fines. It effects play on the field. Jim Leonhard got flagged for a hit interpreted to be against the rules. That flag resulted in a extended drive that led to a go ahead TD. It could have cost the Jets the game and it was the wrong call because of how hard these hits are to police.

In reference to this, I was also thinking another thing maybe the league could do is use replay to determine penalties. The only downside is it will slow down the game because refs sometimes take an insane amount of time to review plays. This could have helped with the Leonhard play but that couldnt be overturned, only the catch could which they also got wrong anyway.

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You seemed to be pretty upset that defenders would get called, but offensive players wouldn't - which is the point I chose to address. Maybe you missed my point. I don't see the double standard.

Everything I've read suggests that the rules aren't changing, but that penalties will be increasing. I'm not a fan of knee-jerk reactions, and I'm not in support of what the league is doing here, but I also don't think it's going to have a dramatic effect on what we see on the field.

Until they open up every call to replay interpretation there will be judgement calls on the field. The Leonhard hit was a bad call. Bad calls happen. This rule augmentation wouldn't effect the call on Leonhard one way or the other.

I'm not concerned what 90% of the players have to say, really. They're conditioned to be tough guys that say it's a violent game, blah, blah, blah. And it is, and I enjoy the big hits as much as anyone. But a moron like Channing Crowder talking about how he gets knocked out momentarily, wakes up dizzy, and keeps playing is not an ideal testimony for just letting the players play. As more information comes to light about the long term effects of concussions, this will continue to be a bigger and bigger deal.

Here's a five page article from the New York Times about football helmet safety and concussions from the pee-wee level up thru the pros. It's a big deal. I'm not a fan of this commissioner, but I understand him feeling like he needs to do something here.

Funny how now you dont care what the players have to say now...totally different this offseason ;-).

I'll address you points below because they are similar.

You're right, I cant argue with that and I in now way what so ever what it to be less physical or violent but only in a way thats LEGAL. The rules they have in place, which are the same, were fine expect for the fact that players who were making these spearing crown of the helmet hits don't give a sh*t about getting fined but they sure as sh*t will care about missing a game!

And the women thing I agree with too, thats just the leagues veiw on it but theres plenty of girls out there who LOVE seeing a huge hit.

I'm not condoning dirty play or illegal hits. I think something should be done and I'd actually prefer to see suspensions over fines because I honestly dont know if a team covers that expense to begin with.

Below are my issues...

1) more flags, that shouldnt be flags, changing the outcome of the game

2) some of these hits are not intentional. I dont think Eric Smith intentionally hit Bolden that way, I think Kerry Rhodes knocked him off course which resulted in a helmet to helmet hit.

3) players playing more tentatively, which may actually result in MORE injuries. You can be tentative on the Football field, especially with the size and speed differentials, thats when really bad sh*t happens.

4) it is hypocritical because the league promote big hits and we know damn well the league does nothing for these folks when they retire

5) there is definitely a double standard, offensive players can launch at on coming defenders, they can put their hands on the face of a defender and the defense cant do any of the above

I think these issues are real and serious and the league may be digging themselves into a hole.

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I'm not condoning dirty play or illegal hits. I think something should be done and I'd actually prefer to see suspensions over fines because I honestly dont know if a team covers that expense to begin with.

Below are my issues...

1) more flags, that shouldnt be flags, changing the outcome of the game

2) some of these hits are not intentional. I dont think Eric Smith intentionally hit Bolden that way, I think Kerry Rhodes knocked him off course which resulted in a helmet to helmet hit.

3) players playing more tentatively, which may actually result in MORE injuries. You can be tentative on the Football field, especially with the size and speed differentials, thats when really bad sh*t happens.

4) it is hypocritical because the league promote big hits and we know damn well the league does nothing for these folks when they retire

5) there is definitely a double standard, offensive players can launch at on coming defenders, they can put their hands on the face of a defender and the defense cant do any of the above

I think these issues are real and serious and the league may be digging themselves into a hole.

I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure where this new statement from the commissioner changes anything.

1.) I think the same calls will/should be called on the field, it's just the way the league plans to review and additionally punish players that will change.

2.) I agree, but that occurred before this change. I hope they go after intention, and not incidental hits like that one.

3.) This is a very real issue. I agree 100%.

4.) see #3. The NFL selling pictures of Harrison's hit the day after fining him $75K was the height of hypocrisy.

5.) Don't agree, which is where I got involved here in the first place. You don't see any of these calls in the trenches where everyone is banging heads. If/when you see a receiver lead with his head to break up a catch a defender is about to make - you will see this penalty called on an offensive player.

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