Knicks vs Celtics playoff series thread

[Klecko73isGod]

Nice response. Well thought out. Very nice job of addressing my points there.

It's an honest question based on your analysis.

Gallo's no great defender, neither are Chandler or Mozgov. The Knicks were just as defensively deficient with them on the roster. A bigger issue with the Knicks defense is D'Antoni's seeming complete lack of understanding that its half the damn game. The Knicks have never had a defensive plan under his "leadership."

Also, your argument that Melo "only" scores 26 while two of the guys we traded for them were capable of putting up 16 each a night so we were actually worse off offensively with Melo is insanely short sighted. Melo AVERAGES 26 a night. He is capable of blowing up for 40+ as we saw in game 2 - and BTW the Knicks wouldn't have been in the game if not for Melo so suggesting they could have won it without him is just nuts. You take Melo's 26 and if anyone else other than Amare can come up with 10 your already averaging four more points per games than you were with the others.

The Knicks never had any serious aspirations of making any kind of a run this year. At best they may have pulled out one of the first two games had they not made the trade but they'd be much worse off moving forward.

Right now they have two superstars to build around, including the best pure scorer in the league.

You never pass up the opportunity to get a superstar in the NBA - NEVER.

[Barcs]

That's better. Sorry, one of my biggest pet peeves is when I take the time to explain my points in detail, and someone responds to it all with a simple one liner that doesn't do it justice. I just enjoy having debates and discussions on these things, that's all.

Gallo's no great defender, neither are Chandler or Mozgov. The Knicks were just as defensively deficient with them on the roster. A bigger issue with the Knicks defense is D'Antoni's seeming complete lack of understanding that its half the damn game. The Knicks have never had a defensive plan under his "leadership."

Gallo and Mosgov weren't amazingly great on D, but were still better than Melo on the defensive end of the floor.

Also, your argument that Melo "only" scores 26 while two of the guys we traded for them were capable of putting up 16 each a night so we were actually worse off offensively with Melo is insanely short sighted. Melo AVERAGES 26 a night. He is capable of blowing up for 40+ as we saw in game 2 - and BTW the Knicks wouldn't have been in the game if not for Melo so suggesting they could have won it without him is just nuts. You take Melo's 26 and if anyone else other than Amare can come up with 10 your already averaging four more points per games than you were with the others.

It's not short sited. Chandler and Gallinari also are capable of scoring in the high 20s. That doesn't mean jack. What matters for the season is the average, which is why the stat is calculated, rather than "what a player has the potential to do every once in a while". There's no other fair way to compare. Consistency is important. If he's blowing up for 40 point games often, but only averages 26, that means he also has a bunch of bad games, where he scores like 10-15 at most(like the first Celtics game). You can't judge him based on just the high scoring games or just the low scoring ones, but his overall performance. The bolded statement is irrelevant because you're talking about a player scoring that would be there whether we made the trade or not. That person wouldn't make a difference because we're comparing the production of Melo and Billups vs Chandler, Gallo, Mosgov and Felton. They don't even out.

The Knicks never had any serious aspirations of making any kind of a run this year. At best they may have pulled out one of the first two games had they not made the trade but they'd be much worse off moving forward.

And we never will have serious aspirations until we fix the glaring big man in the middle problem, which is what I feel should have been done instead of rushing to get Melo. There's a very good chance we would have gotten him anyway.

You never pass up the opportunity to get a superstar in the NBA - NEVER.

See I don't agree with that at all. Have you watched the Knicks for the past decade? Sprewell, Marbury, etc etc etc, we constantly rearranged the team for superstars and only had one decent run during that entire time period. Most of the time we under achieved. Chemistry is way more important than most make it out to be. We will never have a championship contending team until we have a team that stays together for more than 1 or 2 years. I mean sure, the Knicks PROBABLY have a decent future, but we have the same exact issues we had before the trade and not much has changed overall, except we lost our big man who was just starting to come around and 2 future all stars. I'm not saying the trade was bad, just that we gave up too much, especially when we had all the power. I'm just tired of the Knicks franchise doing the same crap over and over. What about Jamal Crawford and Zac Randolph? David Lee? We HAD superstars but we ditched them all to clear cap room. If we kept Crawford and Randolph, just for another year, we would have most likely had a playoff run. It just gets old after a while, ya know? Like I said, I'm giving them a pass this year because they were kind of thrown to the wolves without being able to develop proper chemistry, but I damn sure better not see this repeat itself yet again. Next year will be the true defining year for our team. If another monster trade happens I stop watching. That's all there is too it. As a fan I purchase jerseys and other memorabilia, but what's the point if the player is off the team in a year, regardless of how well they played? Too much money and emotion invested in a franchise with no player loyalty or respect for its fans. It wouldn't surprise me in the least of Stat or Melo is gone within couple years.

[madmikeisback]

You can't compare Spree and Marbury to Melo. Those guys and Crawford and Lee aren't even close to in his league. Now Randoplh is a very good player but He plays the same position as Amare and he's nowhere near the leader Amare is. Of course they are going to need a big man so Amare can play the 4 and a bunch of role players to fill out the roster.

I don't agree with you calling any of the guys they traded future all stars and Mosgov is hardly a long term solution at C. The knicks won't miss any of those guys.

[jason423]

Gallo and Mosgov weren't amazingly great on D, but were still better than Melo on the defensive end of the floor.

It's not short sited. Chandler and Gallinari also are capable of scoring in the high 20s. That doesn't mean jack. What matters for the season is the average, which is why the stat is calculated, rather than "what a player has the potential to do every once in a while". There's no other fair way to compare. Consistency is important. If he's blowing up for 40 point games often, but only averages 26, that means he also has a bunch of bad games, where he scores like 10-15 at most(like the first Celtics game). You can't judge him based on just the high scoring games or just the low scoring ones, but his overall performance. The bolded statement is irrelevant because you're talking about a player scoring that would be there whether we made the trade or not. That person wouldn't make a difference because we're comparing the production of Melo and Billups vs Chandler, Gallo, Mosgov and Felton. They don't even out.

See I don't agree with that at all. Have you watched the Knicks for the past decade? Sprewell, Marbury, etc etc etc, we constantly rearranged the team for superstars and only had one decent run during that entire time period. Most of the time we under achieved. Chemistry is way more important than most make it out to be. We will never have a championship contending team until we have a team that stays together for more than 1 or 2 years. I mean sure, the Knicks PROBABLY have a decent future, but we have the same exact issues we had before the trade and not much has changed overall, except we lost our big man who was just starting to come around and 2 future all stars. I'm not saying the trade was bad, just that we gave up too much, especially when we had all the power. I'm just tired of the Knicks franchise doing the same crap over and over. What about Jamal Crawford and Zac Randolph? David Lee? We HAD superstars but we ditched them all to clear cap room. If we kept Crawford and Randolph, just for another year, we would have most likely had a playoff run. It just gets old after a while, ya know? Like I said, I'm giving them a pass this year because they were kind of thrown to the wolves without being able to develop proper chemistry, but I damn sure better not see this repeat itself yet again. Next year will be the true defining year for our team. If another monster trade happens I stop watching. That's all there is too it. As a fan I purchase jerseys and other memorabilia, but what's the point if the player is off the team in a year, regardless of how well they played? Too much money and emotion invested in a franchise with no player loyalty or respect for its fans. It wouldn't surprise me in the least of Stat or Melo is gone within couple years.

Those players are not better defenders than Carmelo. Do they maybe try harder on the defensive end? You could argue that, but they are not better defenders. Anthony gives you an option to have a one on one defender down the stretch that can guard another teams best player. Those other guys are completely incapable of doing that.

In the NBA you cant compare an elite scorer with guys capable of scoring around 20 on a good night. The 32 points you are giving up is nothing compared to the 26 or 27 you are bringing in. One guy effects the entire team and the way the opposition has to prepare and play defense. Guys like Chandler and Gallo dont do that. Melo makes a defender work hard and that hurts the other team offensively. He draws doubles and triples. Do you think that a guy like Jeffries gets that open under the rim if you have Chandler out on the wing with the ball in his hand? The fact that Jeffries sucks and didnt put up a shot doesnt change the fact that that is a play only a select few guys can create. Its an incredible advantage especially in close basketball games. Kevin Durant just now put on an offensive clinic to carry his team into the next round. You would trade that for two guys that can score 20? No chance. You want players on your team that can go off and win a game basically on their own for you. Melo is one of those rare talents that can do that. You do whatever you can to get a player like that.

You cant compare Spreewell to Melo. Carmelo is a far superior player. Spree was a nice player that was given a superstar tag because he had a name and had the whole incident with PJ. Spree would chuck up a billion shots to average under 20. They didnt bend over backwards to build a team around him. He came off the bench for awhile because they couldnt figure out how to use he and Houston and then he and Camby punched their ticket out of town when Dolan got mad at them. They did make the finals against the Spurs and probably overachieved those years when Van Gundy was coach. I guess the Knicks tried to build around Marbury. Starbury was a joke and so many teams tried and failed (the Nets era with him was so bad) that for the Knicks to do that was such a terrible decision. Those other guys arent superstars. Those are complementary pieces. The Knicks had those guys together and the team stunk. You dont carry a team with David Lee and Zac Randolph. Put them on a good team and they will do very well, just like a Chandler or a Gallo, but you cant build around that. Its like when there were Nets fans or other observers that would insist that the Nets could build around Richard Jefferson. Nice player, not a star. If you watched the Nets day in and out you would realize that he basically had three moves and Kidd made him look like a million bucks. Same went for Kenyon Martin, except he probably had 2 offensive moves.

Nobody should be upset the Knicks got Melo unless you are a Nets fan or a Nuggets fan. The only issue is that the Knicks waited so long. They probably could have gotten him cheaper earlier in the process or paid the kings ransom but had him for a majority of the year to learn the offense and get comfortable with Amare. That also would have taken the pressure off of Amare and allowed him to hold up better as the year went on. But the team dragged their feet thinking they could get him for a bag of chips.

[jason423]

Now Randoplh is a very good player but He plays the same position as Amare and he's nowhere near the leader Amare is. Of course they are going to need a big man so Amare can play the 4 and a bunch of role players to fill out the roster.

Stoudamire is an elite offensive talent. The things he can do with the basketball at his size are amazing. He is still explosive around the hoop, has good range, and can prepare his move with his back to the basket. Randolph isnt even close to that. He hasnt been explosive since his days in Portland. Hes a nice set shooter around the rim that has too much of a tendency to settle for jump shots up at the top. Hes somewhat passive on offense and you really have to push him to put up his best effort.

[madmikeisback]

Stoudamire is an elite offensive talent. The things he can do with the basketball at his size are amazing. He is still explosive around the hoop, has good range, and can prepare his move with his back to the basket. Randolph isnt even close to that. He hasnt been explosive since his days in Portland. Hes a nice set shooter around the rim that has too much of a tendency to settle for jump shots up at the top. Hes somewhat passive on offense and you really have to push him to put up his best effort.

You're underestimating how good he is. He's one of the most consistent 20-10 guys in the NBA

[JohnnyHector]

Stoudamire is an elite offensive talent. The things he can do with the basketball at his size are amazing. He is still explosive around the hoop, has good range, and can prepare his move with his back to the basket. Randolph isnt even close to that. He hasnt been explosive since his days in Portland. Hes a nice set shooter around the rim that has too much of a tendency to settle for jump shots up at the top. Hes somewhat passive on offense and you really have to push him to put up his best effort.

Clearly, Stat is the better player and one of the best at finishing around the basket - in traffic - in league history. I'd like to see him work on playing with his back to the basket more, because it's the one part of his offensive game that is really lacking and takes away the type of inside-out game that could be deadly with him kicking the ball out to Melo. Maybe Hakeem can work with him this offseason, so that his ridiculously fluid post-moves could actually be utilized, unlike when he was trying to teach them to a stiff like Howard.

As far as Randolph, I wouldn't, in a million years, have given him that contract extension, but I don't know if I could refer to someone who is an absolute beast on the offensive glass as being passive. He'd make a great second fiddle on any team with either an elite wing or PG, provided he doesn't have any further personality issues.

[Barcs]

Great points there, Jason. Yes, I wasn't trying to say that Zac Randolph or David Lee is better than Stat or Melo, or trying to compare a 20 point scorer to Melo. I was saying that 3 guys had more statistical contributions put together than Melo did alone, same with Felton over Billups. I was just demonstrating how the Knicks have been down this road before, getting rid of future all stars and completely rearranging the team. It just gets old after a while. That's why I hope it's DONE. I'd think building a team around 2 all stars like Lee and Randolph would produce decent results, at least a few years of making the playoffs, but then again you don't need to arrange the entire team to do it. Signing 2 mega stars you ensure that most important role players are scrubs, and while Stat and Melo are amazing players, you can tell the chemistry isn't there. BTW I never said we shouldn't have gotten Staudamire. He was the best signing the Knicks have made in 10+ years. Staudamire, David Lee, Gallinari, Chandler and Fields is a great start to any team, and the chemistry was there. My main point about the trade is that there was a very good chance we'd have signed him anyway. If you really don't think we gave up too much, then hey, I don't know what to tell you. The stats paint the picture for me and that's really all that matters. Nuggets get better, Knicks stay the same.

Those players are not better defenders than Carmelo. Do they maybe try harder on the defensive end? You could argue that, but they are not better defenders. Anthony gives you an option to have a one on one defender down the stretch that can guard another teams best player. Those other guys are completely incapable of doing that.

How does Melo give you that option when his defense is far from great? Remember what happened in the clutch of game 2? He lost his man and that was all she wrote. I don't remember Gallo ever doing something that blatantly bad.

The knicks didn't overachieve under Van Gundy, besides during the playoff run where they were 8th seed and made it to the finals. Other than that fluke run, they under achieved considering the talent they had on that team.

I'm not upset that we got Melo, I'm upset that we gave up too much. Melo was destined to head our way during the off season. What could have stopped him?

[RutgersJetFan]

I'm not upset that we got Melo, I'm upset that we gave up too much. Melo was destined to head our way during the off season. What could have stopped him?

Sixty million dollars?

[jason423]

How does Melo give you that option when his defense is far from great? Remember what happened in the clutch of game 2? He lost his man and that was all she wrote. I don't remember Gallo ever doing something that blatantly bad.

The knicks didn't overachieve under Van Gundy, besides during the playoff run where they were 8th seed and made it to the finals. Other than that fluke run, they under achieved considering the talent they had on that team.

I'm not upset that we got Melo, I'm upset that we gave up too much. Melo was destined to head our way during the off season. What could have stopped him?

Just because a player doesnt play defense for a full game does not mean they are incapable of playing defense. Melo didnt lose his guy on that play, he lost his head about the way an inbounds play works. Thats totally different than getting in a guys face and playing defense. The guy can play defense, he just needs a coach to tell him to do it. Right now he can do whatever he wants because his coach doesnt care about that aspect of the game. I dont watch Gallo play all the time but I always saw him as a flat footed type of defender.

Those Knicks teams in the late 90s werent good. They had an aging Ewing. Allan Houston. A broken down LJ that probably couldnt even dunk anymore. Charlie Ward and Chris Childs at the point. John Starks and Charles Oakley. On what planet is that a good team? They ran that team out there for two years, got robbed against the Heat one season and lost to a better Pacers team. The bench was awful. Guys like Chris Dudley and Buck Williams were on those teams. It was a miracle they made the finals when the Spree/Camby run began. They made it to the conference finals the next year despite the fact that Ewing and Johnson were basically done. His final year they replaced Ewing with Glen Rice who didnt fit at all, though that was the one year where even with that team they never should have lost to Toronto. I think that was the series where Carter went off in the final 2 games after Oakley basically called him out and said he was a baby and things like that and it actually worked to motivate him to play well. Van Gundy wisely bailed the next year and the playoffs became a thing a of the past.

[Barcs]

Just because a player doesnt play defense for a full game does not mean they are incapable of playing defense. Melo didnt lose his guy on that play, he lost his head about the way an inbounds play works. Thats totally different than getting in a guys face and playing defense. The guy can play defense, he just needs a coach to tell him to do it. Right now he can do whatever he wants because his coach doesnt care about that aspect of the game. I dont watch Gallo play all the time but I always saw him as a flat footed type of defender.

Those Knicks teams in the late 90s werent good. They had an aging Ewing. Allan Houston. A broken down LJ that probably couldnt even dunk anymore. Charlie Ward and Chris Childs at the point. John Starks and Charles Oakley. On what planet is that a good team? They ran that team out there for two years, got robbed against the Heat one season and lost to a better Pacers team. The bench was awful. Guys like Chris Dudley and Buck Williams were on those teams. It was a miracle they made the finals when the Spree/Camby run began. They made it to the conference finals the next year despite the fact that Ewing and Johnson were basically done. His final year they replaced Ewing with Glen Rice who didnt fit at all, though that was the one year where even with that team they never should have lost to Toronto. I think that was the series where Carter went off in the final 2 games after Oakley basically called him out and said he was a baby and things like that and it actually worked to motivate him to play well. Van Gundy wisely bailed the next year and the playoffs became a thing a of the past.

That late 90s team was one of my favorite Knicks teams. Starks, Houston, LJ, B Williams, Oakley, etc were great, especially when Ewing was injured. They weren't the best ever, but they managed to have several 7-8 game winning streaks during a few of those years. Oakley was the friggin man. He contributed in ways that stats don't show. I see shades of him in Fields today. I wasn't a big fan of Ward or Childs (or most Knicks PGs since), but the rest of the team grew on me and Starks is still my favorite Knick of all time. Nobody could turn a game around like he could, even when he was sixth man of the year. Anyways now I feel nostalgic and feel bad for ragging on the Knicks like I did. I mean I still love the Knicks, I just feel management makes too many quick irrational decisions and has done this for a while. We'll be good again, but we aren't getting higher than 6 seed in the playoffs or making any realistic championship run until we fix that glaring rebounding problem and get the defense more focused. I just hope we focus on fixing that instead of going for Chris Paul or some other superstar. I don't agree that D'antoni doesn't care about defense. He does, but he plays an uptempo game that focuses on more scoring. It's not like he tells them to let the guys score. We just need that big man in the middle to get the defense where it needs to be. We need to get a Dennis Rodman type player.

[jason423]

That late 90s team was one of my favorite Knicks teams. Starks, Houston, LJ, B Williams, Oakley, etc were great, especially when Ewing was injured. They weren't the best ever, but they managed to have several 7-8 game winning streaks during a few of those years. Oakley was the friggin man. He contributed in ways that stats don't show. I see shades of him in Fields today. I wasn't a big fan of Ward or Childs (or most Knicks PGs since), but the rest of the team grew on me and Starks is still my favorite Knick of all time. Nobody could turn a game around like he could, even when he was sixth man of the year. Anyways now I feel nostalgic and feel bad for ragging on the Knicks like I did. I mean I still love the Knicks, I just feel management makes too many quick irrational decisions and has done this for a while. We'll be good again, but we aren't getting higher than 6 seed in the playoffs or making any realistic championship run until we fix that glaring rebounding problem and get the defense more focused. I just hope we focus on fixing that instead of going for Chris Paul or some other superstar. I don't agree that D'antoni doesn't care about defense. He does, but he plays an uptempo game that focuses on more scoring. It's not like he tells them to let the guys score. We just need that big man in the middle to get the defense where it needs to be. We need to get a Dennis Rodman type player.

I dont think there was anything wrong with those teams I just cant see saying they underachieved. That was the tail end of the real good period for the franchise and Van Gundy pulled a miracle off at the complete end of the Ewing era. Im a Nets fan but always pulled for the Knicks, especially since the Nets were so bad every year and just had guys you could not cheer for in the Coleman and Marbury eras (similar to the Knicks in the Marbury era). My only disdain for the Knicks at all came when the Nets got good with Kidd, beat up on the Knicks that first year and the Knicks fans started getting on the Nets fans. Its like the Celtics fans picking on the Knicks fans now. Why? The team has sucked so long why not let the fans have a little fun with the team. The only Knicks teams that really underachieved were the team that lost to the Pacers (the infamous Ewing finger roll series) and then the year under Don Nelson where the team didnt fit his style and didnt want to play for him. By the time JVG took over the team wasnt in the right shape or frame of mind to play at a high level in the playoffs. The team that got robbed against the Heat with the suspensions was really when the window closed. Everything after that people should have been happy with considering the makeup of the team.

I dont think the coach now really preaches defense. I think in general NBA players are much lazier now when it comes to that part of the game. I dont think you get the Oakley types that have their mind set on one side of the game and playing that side more physical than anyone else in the NBA. Rodman basically said he knew when he was playing that he had almost no offensive ability so he was going to focus on the things he could do (rebound and get under the skin of his opponent on defense) and be the best in the league at it. You had guys like Dale and Antonio Davis as enforcer types. There were plenty others too. Those players more or less dont exist anymore. Guys like to block shots and thats about it. When Martin was on the Nets and people would say he was a great defender they were blind. He had a fast vertical and liked to block shots into the 3rd row. The little things like altering shots, "pop" blocks, and being a nuisance are almost all gone. I think you need the coach to challenge you to do it 24/7 now whereas in the past there were just guys you could sign that would do it for you and hope the team responded as well.

The bad parts about D'antonis system is when he is preaching break, break, break, and that leads to offensive boards for the other team. You have to have designated guys that are going to run and guys that will board. Sending your 3 and your 4 on every break is a problem especially without a true big to battle for the rebound or a guard that can board and run. You need Amare and/or Melo to crash not take off running. I think he also has to tone down his bombs away attack at times, until he gets better shooters. Wild threes usually lead to wild rebounds that are going to lead to an advantage for the defense who can probably come out running with the ball. Against certain teams that have the ability to do that he has to be more reserved in his offense. Phoenix had far better shooters than NY and they also had some guys with the ability to follow their miss and get the ball back. Until he has the talent level up he cant play the same way.

[JohnnyHector]

Starks is still my favorite Knick of all time.

Your favorite Knick of all-time is a guy who almost single-handedly prevented them from beating Houston in Game 7 of the Finals (after he was awful in the Game 1 loss as well)? The same guy who choked in Game 1 of the Indiana series where, after Reggie Miller nailed back-to-back 3's to tie it and Sam Mitchell stupidly fouled him with 13 seconds to go (thinking that Indiana still trailed), he bricked two free throws?

[RutgersJetFan]

Your favorite Knick of all-time is a guy who almost single-handedly prevented them from beating Houston in Game 7 of the Finals (after he was awful in the Game 1 loss as well)?

Almost? ALMOST? Are you kidding me? It gets me so angry just even remembering that ******* game.

[rillo]

Your favorite Knick of all-time is a guy who almost single-handedly prevented them from beating Houston in Game 7 of the Finals (after he was awful in the Game 1 loss as well)? The same guy who choked in Game 1 of the Indiana series where, after Reggie Miller nailed back-to-back 3's to tie it and Sam Mitchell stupidly fouled him with 13 seconds to go (thinking that Indiana still trailed), he bricked two free throws?

**** Starks!

[JohnnyHector]

Almost? ALMOST? Are you kidding me? It gets me so angry just even remembering that ******* game.

The "almost" is because Riley gets part of the blame for leaving him out there to brick shot after shot.

[Barcs]

I dont think there was anything wrong with those teams I just cant see saying they underachieved. That was the tail end of the real good period for the franchise and Van Gundy pulled a miracle off at the complete end of the Ewing era. Im a Nets fan but always pulled for the Knicks, especially since the Nets were so bad every year and just had guys you could not cheer for in the Coleman and Marbury eras (similar to the Knicks in the Marbury era). My only disdain for the Knicks at all came when the Nets got good with Kidd, beat up on the Knicks that first year and the Knicks fans started getting on the Nets fans. Its like the Celtics fans picking on the Knicks fans now. Why? The team has sucked so long why not let the fans have a little fun with the team. The only Knicks teams that really underachieved were the team that lost to the Pacers (the infamous Ewing finger roll series) and then the year under Don Nelson where the team didnt fit his style and didnt want to play for him. By the time JVG took over the team wasnt in the right shape or frame of mind to play at a high level in the playoffs. The team that got robbed against the Heat with the suspensions was really when the window closed. Everything after that people should have been happy with considering the makeup of the team.

I dont think the coach now really preaches defense. I think in general NBA players are much lazier now when it comes to that part of the game. I dont think you get the Oakley types that have their mind set on one side of the game and playing that side more physical than anyone else in the NBA. Rodman basically said he knew when he was playing that he had almost no offensive ability so he was going to focus on the things he could do (rebound and get under the skin of his opponent on defense) and be the best in the league at it. You had guys like Dale and Antonio Davis as enforcer types. There were plenty others too. Those players more or less dont exist anymore. Guys like to block shots and thats about it. When Martin was on the Nets and people would say he was a great defender they were blind. He had a fast vertical and liked to block shots into the 3rd row. The little things like altering shots, "pop" blocks, and being a nuisance are almost all gone. I think you need the coach to challenge you to do it 24/7 now whereas in the past there were just guys you could sign that would do it for you and hope the team responded as well.

The bad parts about D'antonis system is when he is preaching break, break, break, and that leads to offensive boards for the other team. You have to have designated guys that are going to run and guys that will board. Sending your 3 and your 4 on every break is a problem especially without a true big to battle for the rebound or a guard that can board and run. You need Amare and/or Melo to crash not take off running. I think he also has to tone down his bombs away attack at times, until he gets better shooters. Wild threes usually lead to wild rebounds that are going to lead to an advantage for the defense who can probably come out running with the ball. Against certain teams that have the ability to do that he has to be more reserved in his offense. Phoenix had far better shooters than NY and they also had some guys with the ability to follow their miss and get the ball back. Until he has the talent level up he cant play the same way.

Good post, man. I agree with just about everything you said. I think the reason the D'antoni system hasn't looked so good lately is because of the lack of the big man that can crash boards and run. Stat isn't always inside to do this. With Gallo, Felton and Chandler, our ball movement was better and we got and made way more open 3 pointers. After the trade, Fields kind of vanished for a while, and the ball movement got a lot worse. Don't get me wrong, Chauncey is amazing, but he seems to shoot more than pass. With Felton he was more of a drive and kickout guy. Anyways, the Nets have a good future, as do the knicks. I look forward to meeting you guys in the playoffs within a couple years.

[Barcs]

Your favorite Knick of all-time is a guy who almost single-handedly prevented them from beating Houston in Game 7 of the Finals (after he was awful in the Game 1 loss as well)? The same guy who choked in Game 1 of the Indiana series where, after Reggie Miller nailed back-to-back 3's to tie it and Sam Mitchell stupidly fouled him with 13 seconds to go (thinking that Indiana still trailed), he bricked two free throws?

I don't judge a guy based on 1 or 2 bad games. Overall his contribution to the franchise was enormous, if not for the pure emotion he brought to the game. Was there anyone on the Knicks that got the crowd more fired up than Starks? You can't completely blame Starks for that game. As I recall Ewing missed a very simple layup as well at the end. If he wasn't on the team, we wouldn't have even gotten to the finals that year. And don't get me started on the infamous knick killer, Reggie miller. He has single handed knocked them out of the playoffs on more than one occasion.

[JohnnyHector]

I don't judge a guy based on 1 or 2 bad games.

How about when he has an all-time horrible performance in the most important game the team played in the last 35 years?

[Barcs]

How about when he has an all-time horrible performance in the most important game the team played in the last 35 years?

Such is life, which is why it was unfair of me to judge Melo as I did. I was just ranting though, and I was wrong. Melo's a great player, better than Starks, etc etc, but I still feel we gave up too much to get him.