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Like the injury ravaged Jets....the Pats....


Garb

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RS....out of curiosity what in your opinion would the Pats record without Brady and Flutie be?

Same question for Jets with Fiedler?

Well you can't take away Brady and Flutie without giving them back Harrison, Poole and a healthy Seymour for the season. And if that was the case I would say that thier record would be the same as it is now.

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in a word - YES

the QB touches the ball on every offensive play. Every time there is a completed pass it comes from his hands. He calls the plays in the huddle, more than that he looks in everyone's eyes and let's the team know whether they are gonna win or lose that day. When he is in practice you can look at your QB and determine how good you will be that year. It's a game of inches and confidence is paramount. You can take 10 schleps put them with tom brady and they will be more effective than a team of all-pros with Brooks Bollinger.

More than that - if the left guard or the wide reciever misses an assignment or makes a mistake there's a chance either no one will notice or someone else will pick up the slack - when the QB makes mistakes everyone knows, there is no one to pick up the slack and it can be the death of a team.

a great QB makes everyone around them look great. A bad QB is something even great players cannot overcome.

and for those that bring up Dilfer and Johnson make no mistake these guys were leaders and they were good enough to win. They weren't great but they didn't have to be in the light of the HOF caliber defenses on the other side of the ball. Also it goes without saying these men are on a different level than Street free agent Vinny and Brooks last man standing Bollinger. They were starters. They had talent. These men were game managers that didn't kill their teams with mistakes. That's important. Also they are the exception not the rule. The rule is you need a great QB to win the Super Bowl and he better be a pocket QB not a runner.

QB is by far the most important position on the field, which is why in most draft years the top QB in the draft pool is also the first player taken.

Ray Lucas - 6-2

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Trust me on this, if Doug Flutie was our starting QB, we would not win a game. It may as well be Bollinger out there.

Garb like I said give them Harrison and other hurt players on defense back. Not to mention that this team lost two great coordinators.

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Garb like I said give them Harrison and other hurt players on defense back. Not to mention that this team lost two great coordinators.

you sound like a patsie* apologist...give us back Barton, a healthy D-Rob (broken hand in a cast) and a healthy Eric Coleman (broken wrist in a cast)for the year..face it, without Brady the patsies* would be worse off then they already are, just ask Tx

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Ray Lucas - 6-2

what did he win? 6 spoiler games? also taking a bad Qb and having Bill Parcells scream at him nonstop 24 hours a day for 12 weeks isn't exactly the norm.

again you are giving me exceptions not the rule. The rule is the QB is the most important player on the field. Look no further than money - Why are the QB the most highest paid position? because it's the hardest and it's the most important.

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Tx, are you frickin kidding me?

The Pats would be 3-6 at best if they lost Brady and his mainbackup for the season. Please, you guys have been squeaking out those 5 wins because of Tom Bradys play (cant believe i'm giving this fag credit). So yea dooshey, the difference between the pats and the jets record is tom brady and only tom brady. The pats defense has played about 5X worse than the Jets, and Jets special teams have probably been better too.

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also I did a google search "most important position" and "quarterback" and it returned 10000 hits.

among notable ones:

the editor in chief of PFW saying QB is the most important position on the field.

http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives/features_2000/daily_030701.asp

Chris Collinsworth on NFL.com "...the old NFL adage that the most important position on the field is your starting quarterback, and the second-most important position is your backup quarterback.

"

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9021294

Vic Carruci on Jaguars.com

"If quarterback is the most important position in all of sports, and it always has been... "

http://www.jaguars.com/Story/1472.asp

Steve Merrill a sportsbook handicapper on covers.com

"Quarterback is definitely the most important position as he is the only player to touch the ball on every offensive possession of the game, other than QB, most injuries are actually overrated by the oddsmakers and the general betting public. "

http://www.covers.com/articles/articles.aspx?theArt=58161&tid=54

i could go on all day. Yes there are other theories out there but by and large the consensus is that without a QB you are screwed.

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also I did a google search "most important position" and "quarterback" and it returned 10000 hits.

among notable ones:

the editor in chief of PFW saying QB is the most important position on the field.

http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives/features_2000/daily_030701.asp

Chris Collinsworth on NFL.com "...the old NFL adage that the most important position on the field is your starting quarterback, and the second-most important position is your backup quarterback.

"

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9021294

Vic Carruci on Jaguars.com

"If quarterback is the most important position in all of sports, and it always has been... "

http://www.jaguars.com/Story/1472.asp

Steve Merrill a sportsbook handicapper on covers.com

"Quarterback is definitely the most important position as he is the only player to touch the ball on every offensive possession of the game, other than QB, most injuries are actually overrated by the oddsmakers and the general betting public. "

http://www.covers.com/articles/articles.aspx?theArt=58161&tid=54

i could go on all day. Yes there are other theories out there but by and large the consensus is that without a QB you are screwed.

If QB is so important than why do the Jets have 4 first rounders on the D-Line and one late first spent on a QB? And it is acutally 5 firsts when you consider it took 2 to get D Fat.

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what did he win? 6 spoiler games? also taking a bad Qb and having Bill Parcells scream at him nonstop 24 hours a day for 12 weeks isn't exactly the norm.

again you are giving me exceptions not the rule. The rule is the QB is the most important player on the field. Look no further than money - Why are the QB the most highest paid position? because it's the hardest and it's the most important.

Spoiler games? hahahahaha. You are reaching.

QB is the highest paid because they attract the most fans - not because it is the most important.

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you sound like a patsie* apologist...give us back Barton, a healthy D-Rob (broken hand in a cast) and a healthy Eric Coleman (broken wrist in a cast)for the year..face it, without Brady the patsies* would be worse off then they already are, just ask Tx

Why what has a healthy D Fat, Barton or Coleman ever done? We are talking about pro bowlers on the Pats and you are comparing them to guys that have yet to even prove themselves.

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Tx, are you frickin kidding me?

The Pats would be 3-6 at best if they lost Brady and his mainbackup for the season. Please, you guys have been squeaking out those 5 wins because of Tom Bradys play (cant believe i'm giving this fag credit). So yea dooshey, the difference between the pats and the jets record is tom brady and only tom brady. The pats defense has played about 5X worse than the Jets, and Jets special teams have probably been better too.

Once again the younster is 100% correct.

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If QB is so important than why do the Jets have 4 first rounders on the D-Line and one late first spent on a QB? And it is acutally 5 firsts when you consider it took 2 to get D Fat.

Jets havent exactly had top 5 draft picks to draft a franchise QB - something they thought they had in Pennington.

Barton is proven. Very good player, borderline probowler type IMO. Coleman has been anything the FO and the fans can dream about. He had a very good rookie season and is having an even better sophmore season.

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Jets havent exactly had top 5 draft picks to draft a franchise QB - something they thought they had in Pennington.

Barton is proven. Very good player, borderline probowler type IMO. Coleman has been anything the FO and the fans can dream about. He had a very good rookie season and is having an even better sophmore season.

None of these players are Pro Bowlers.

Jets could have traded up several times to get a franchise QB but never did. The game is won and lost in the trenches. It would be hard for any QB to throw from his backside - no matter how good he is. It is the ultimate team sport and no one player makes that big of a difference. Maybe a player could mean the difference between 3 or 4 close games in a season but the Jets are not losing close games. They are getting blown out and quitting with 7 minutes left in games.

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When can the Jets have traded up for a franchise QB?

2001? mike vick?

2002? david carr? joey harrington?

2003? not after Chads 2002 season they're gonna trade up for a QB

Jets drafted Pennington in 2000. They werent gonna draft a QB the next year or the year after that or the year after that. Not until this season have the Jets had to consider maybe trading up for a franchise QB.

Tom Brady is a probowl QB, he's been the key why the Patriots are still in playoff contention. I think you get that though.

Barton is a very good player, and 1 of the main reasons our run defense isnt as good this year is because Barton isnt their to limit the run to 2 or 3 yards, instead of 5 or 6 like Mark Brown. Not to mention the energy he brings on the field.

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When can the Jets have traded up for a franchise QB?

2001? mike vick?

2002? david carr? joey harrington?

2003? not after Chads 2002 season they're gonna trade up for a QB

Jets drafted Pennington in 2000. They werent gonna draft a QB the next year or the year after that or the year after that. Not until this season have the Jets had to consider maybe trading up for a franchise QB.

Tom Brady is a probowl QB, he's been the key why the Patriots are still in playoff contention. I think you get that though.

Barton is a very good player, and 1 of the main reasons our run defense isnt as good this year is because Barton isnt their to limit the run to 2 or 3 yards, instead of 5 or 6 like Mark Brown. Not to mention the energy he brings on the field.

EB do some research on the Pittsburgh Steelers - they wanted to trade Bradshaw and practically ran him out of town until they got that defense. Same goes for Simms. Hostetler was a back up with no experience but won a super bowl. Same with Doug Williams. Trent Dilfer should have been a back up and won a super bowl. Steve Young sucked with Tampa Bay - also won a super bowl with the niners. Brett Favre looked like sh*t on Atlanta but looked pretty good winning a super bowl with the Packers. The list goes on and on proving that this is a team sport and no one player makes or breaks either side of the ball. Like I said earlier they may mean the difference in a close game or two a year or maybe even three. But no one player is really that important.

Oh, and Barton makes very, very little difference on defense and thanks to Doug Brien is still on the team.

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EB do some research on the Pittsburgh Steelers - they wanted to trade Bradshaw and practically ran him out of town until they got that defense. Same goes for Simms. Hostetler was a back up with no experience but won a super bowl. Same with Doug Williams. Trent Dilfer should have been a back up and won a super bowl. Steve Young sucked with Tampa Bay - also won a super bowl with the niners. Brett Favre looked like Sh#t on Atlanta but looked pretty good winning a super bowl with the Packers. The list goes on and on proving that this is a team sport and no one player makes or breaks either side of the ball. Like I said earlier they may mean the difference in a close game or two a year or maybe even three. But no one player is really that important.

Oh, and Barton makes very, very little difference on defense and thanks to Doug Brien is still on the team.

Barton makes very little difference on defense? Mark Brown is 1/8 the player Barton is. Sure, the Drew Brees shot to the head was really stupid, but lets not forget Barton was our LEADING TACKLER last season, led the team in tackles for a loss or at the line of scrimmage, he was really our best linebacker last season.

Average QBs might not make a difference, but great ones sure do. Thats all I'm saying is about the patriots this season, they are 5-4 because they have a great QB, if they didnt they'd have a losing record too with the way their defense is playing.

Unless you have some kind of alltime great defense (bears85, ravens2000, steel curtain etc etc etc) you need a top QB to win a superbowl JMO. If you have a great QB, I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say "no one player is that important". Imho, QB is the most important, and the better the QB the better the offense and the better the team.

Football is the ultimate team sport, you need a supporting cast and a tight ship to be a contender, but the QB is the field general out there, the commander in leader.

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Barton makes very little difference on defense? Mark Brown is 1/8 the player Barton is. Sure, the Drew Brees shot to the head was really stupid, but lets not forget Barton was our LEADING TACKLER last season, led the team in tackles for a loss or at the line of scrimmage, he was really our best linebacker last season.

Average QBs might not make a difference, but great ones sure do. Thats all I'm saying is about the patriots this season, they are 5-4 because they have a great QB, if they didnt they'd have a losing record too with the way their defense is playing.

Unless you have some kind of alltime great defense (bears85, ravens2000, steel curtain etc etc etc) you need a top QB to win a superbowl JMO. If you have a great QB, I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say "no one player is that important". Imho, QB is the most important, and the better the QB the better the offense and the better the team.

Football is the ultimate team sport, you need a supporting cast and a tight ship to be a contender, but the QB is the field general out there, the commander in leader.

Sure great QB's make a big difference. Just look at how many rings these record holders have.

Peyton Manning

Dan Marino

Fran Tarkenton

Think Elway wins one without TD and that improved defense? I don't.

Bottom line is that you can lose and still look like you are playing hard and the Jets aren't playing hard right now. And you can win with out anything to write home about at QB so long as the rest of your team is coached up and executing well.

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Sure great QB's make a big difference. Just look at how many rings these record holders have.

Peyton Manning

Dan Marino

Fran Tarkenton

Think Elway wins one without TD and that improved defense? I don't.

Bottom line is that you can lose and still look like you are playing hard and the Jets aren't playing hard right now. And you can win with out anything to write home about at QB so long as the rest of your team is coached up and executing well.

Point taken.

God knows that would never happen to the point of a superbowl with Hermy as our head coach.

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If QB is so important than why do the Jets have 4 first rounders on the D-Line and one late first spent on a QB?

Um im gonna go out on a limb here and say because you only start 1 QB?

please re-read this posting you are comparing first round picks to first round picks. Chad _is a first round pick_ and they gave him the world in terms of salary - because he was going to be the face of the franchise for the next 7 years or more. How can you be seriously saying QB isn't the most important position?

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Um im gonna go out on a limb here and say because you only start 1 QB?

please re-read this posting you are comparing first round picks to first round picks. Chad _is a first round pick_ and they gave him the world in terms of salary - because he was going to be the face of the franchise for the next 7 years or more. How can you be seriously saying QB isn't the most important position?

Bit the Qb gets the most money because he is the face of the franchise - not because it is the most important position on the field.

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The Patriots have had 36 different starters this year. NO ONE can cry to me about injuries, especially a Steelers fan who CAN sit out his starting QB this Sunday because they are playing the offensively woeful Ravens. Take a look at the Jets situation at QB and O-line, check out the Pats entire defensive backfield, lack of RB'S and their O-line too......save it, Steelers fan! :wink:

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....have put yet another two on injured reserve. Randall Gay and our center, Dan Koppen.

So, how many layers of Visa protection do we have left? The fraud monitoring guy? Can Pepsi Machine play DB?

If we lose any more metaphors, I'm canceling my Visa account! (stole that line).

:lol:

At least the Patsies have a good QB. The importance of a good QB in the NFL has become painfully apparent for the Jets this season. Even though both the Jets and Pats have been completely ravaged by injuries this year, the Pats still have a QB and are actually able to compete in games.

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EB,

I thought football was the ultimate "team" sport.

Are you saying that "one" player out of a roster of 53 is the difference between 5-4 and 2-7? :shock:

It certainly makes sense. The quarterback is easily the most important position on the football field. You can't honestly tell me Tx that having Brady is what keeps the Pats in games. If Brady goes down the Pats would be no better than the Jets.

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pennington is as important to the jets as mike vick is to the falcons, and as important as brady is to the pats..and if you can say that one player doesnt make that big of a difference then explain how the falcons sucked soo bad the year vick broke his leg or ankle or whatever it was?

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i dont know why we bother with stupid pats fans, until brady goes down and you guys have a season worse than ours is gonna end up being this year you wont ever get it...but as soon as it does happen you'll be whinning, "we lost a h.o.f qb, anyone would struggle without his quality of player"

do us all a favor and shut it

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EB,

I thought football was the ultimate "team" sport.

Are you saying that "one" player out of a roster of 53 is the difference between 5-4 and 2-7? :shock:

Jesus Christ, I am going to laugh my f###ing ass off for weeks when Brady gets injured and done on IR for the season and the pats go 4-12. It will eventually happen in his career. Maybe then you'll understand.

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and one more thing...the reason the qb position is soo important to teams like the jets, falcons, and pats is simple--their qb is the heart and soul of that team. You take ray lewis off that baltimore team, and im aware they had an all around good defense, but they dont make it to the super bowl, PERIOD.

last time i checked...patriots sucked back in 2001 with bledsoe as qb...he gets hurt, brady comes in and changes everything...so you wanna go back in time and exchange brady for bledsoe for the entire year? i dont think so

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