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8th District court rules in owners favor


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#1 PatriotReign37

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 06:18 PM

http://theredzone.or...ay/Default.aspx

The lockout continues and this is a good thing IMO.

A lot of players are fast running out of money. They need to return to being a Union and get back to working on a new CBA.
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#2 SoFlaJets

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 06:28 PM

It's getting to the point that I'm starting to not even care anymore if there is or isn't a 2011 season
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#3 JoeC36

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 06:38 PM

It's getting to the point that I'm starting to not even care anymore if there is or isn't a 2011 season


i hear ya on that SoFla. I got enough other stuff im finding i can occupy my time with other than football.
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#4 bobbyjet69

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 07:14 PM

so sick of this crap!!
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#5 Iceman88

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 07:17 PM

This is good news, the players just lost all their leverage. They will cave quickly.
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#6 #27TheDominator

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 07:22 PM

You are all just tools of the Man. If it weren't for this ruling the players would be in minicamp, but this is a good thing?
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#7 Iceman88

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 07:27 PM

You are all just tools of the Man. If it weren't for this ruling the players would be in minicamp, but this is a good thing?


This is the only way there is actually going to be a long term CBA put in place. If the lockout was forced open the league would start but we would still have major labor issues that would not be going away. This is going to force the players (mainly Demaurice Smith the biggest tool ever) to actually negotiate and get a real CBA done which will end labor issues for a few years.
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#8 war ensemble

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 07:32 PM

There's a lot of people that make thousands, hundreds that make millions, and ~32 that make billions. The hundreds are bickering with the 32. Am I the only one that sees no "good thing" with either of the last two parties "winning" this argument, seeing as we all belong squarely in the first category that sees no benefit either way?

I don't understand how people can take sides here. They're arguing over who gets a certain share of our money--and either way, it's not us.

Edited by war ensemble, 16 May 2011 - 07:33 PM.

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#9 Iceman88

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 07:35 PM

There's a lot of people that make thousands, hundreds that make millions, and ~32 that make billions. The hundreds are bickering with the 32. Am I the only one that sees no "good thing" with either of the last two parties "winning" this argument, seeing as we all belong squarely in the first category that sees no benefit either way?

I don't understand how people can take sides here. They're arguing over who gets a certain share of our money--and either way, it's not us.


Eh I think both sides are at major fault but I think this is the best way to get a deal done so its good news in my opinion. I really don't give a sh*t about either side, except for my hatred of Demaurice Smith.
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#10 #27TheDominator

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 07:40 PM

This is the only way there is actually going to be a long term CBA put in place. If the lockout was forced open the league would start but we would still have major labor issues that would not be going away. This is going to force the players (mainly Demaurice Smith the biggest tool ever) to actually negotiate and get a real CBA done which will end labor issues for a few years.


According to you. I don't think the players "folding" will lead to a long term CBA. It's a good way for a fractured season. Demaurice is bigger than Goodell?

There's a lot of people that make thousands, hundreds that make millions, and ~32 that make billions. The hundreds are bickering with the 32. Am I the only one that sees no "good thing" with either of the last two parties "winning" this argument, seeing as we all belong squarely in the first category that sees no benefit either way?

I don't understand how people can take sides here. They're arguing over who gets a certain share of our money--and either way, it's not us.


You are not a real fan.
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#11 Iceman88

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 07:44 PM

According to you. I don't think the players "folding" will lead to a long term CBA. It's a good way for a fractured season. Demaurice is bigger than Goodell?


The players with no leverage realize that what they are getting is their best option, they will sign a CBA giving us at least 5 years probably until a new CBA comes up. And yeah Demaurice is definitely worse then Goodell. Goodell just answers for the owners, especially when it comes to this labor issue he really has no power, Demaurice is the one who has been in charge of the entire players strategy and leading it along with Jeffery Kessler (another giant douche). They never intended to negotiate in faith and always planned on going to the courts.
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#12 #27TheDominator

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 07:55 PM

The players with no leverage realize that what they are getting is their best option, they will sign a CBA giving us at least 5 years probably until a new CBA comes up. And yeah Demaurice is definitely worse then Goodell. Goodell just answers for the owners, especially when it comes to this labor issue he really has no power, Demaurice is the one who has been in charge of the entire players strategy and leading it along with Jeffery Kessler (another giant douche). They never intended to negotiate in faith and always planned on going to the courts.


They should go to the courts because they should win in the courts. The owners are the greedy douchebags that opted out and couldn't even wait for the deal they were making millions on to expire. Not negotiating in good faith is why the IMO the NFLPA should not be acting as an association, but you don't think that matters. If the players just left it to the courts the owners would have no cause for a stay and the players wouldn't have a rep for the courts to try to force negotiations. IMO that would lead to the owners getting gutted in court.

**excuse the "you think". I thought I was replying to PR37. Sorry to you both. Editing on the phone is a bitch so this is all you get

Edited by #27TheDominator, 16 May 2011 - 07:58 PM.

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#13 Larz

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 08:38 PM

this is good for the fans. What is good for the players is bad for the fans. The players want movement and money. that leads to higher costs and the cowboys become the yankees and the bills and jags go under because they can't compete with no draft or cap.

the next thing we'll see is fractures in the union, then a return to the table, then the owners put the players over their knee and we get football again.

if the players had won, I honestly feel they would have dragged this on into the season, like a hold out of sorts.

now the owners have the hammer, and will use it

this is good for fans
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#14 war ensemble

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 08:40 PM

this is good for the fans. What is good for the players is bad for the fans. The players want movement and money. that leads to higher costs and the cowboys become the yankees and the bills and jags go under because they can't compete with no draft or cap.

the next thing we'll see is fractures in the union, then a return to the table, then the owners put the players over their knee and we get football again.

if the players had won, I honestly feel they would have dragged this on into the season, like a hold out of sorts.

now the owners have the hammer, and will use it

this is good for fans


So let's recap: the players want money. The owners want money.

And whose money do they all want again?
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#15 Larz

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 08:45 PM

So let's recap: the players want money. The owners want money.

And whose money do they all want again?


the networks money, our money is chump change.

this is good for fans because it will lead to a quicker resolution. one side has a big hammer, the other side is a nail. the worst case scenario would have been a stalemate, that could have gone well into october in my opinion. as fans, we also want to keep the draft, the cap, and moderate player movement restrictions. the players did reference in one of thier filings the legality of the draft. that may have been a chip they would have conceded later on, or they may have tried to get rid of it.

update

judge doty will more or less decide how this goes. pray he decides in the owners favor. if he gives the players a war chest, I don't think we see football in 2011

link to story

Edited by Larz, 16 May 2011 - 08:56 PM.

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#16 dbatesman

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 09:08 PM

this is good for fans because it will lead to a quicker resolution.


If the 8th Circuit rules in favor the players, the lockout is lifted immediately and everyone returns to work.
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This is like having a cat with leukemia.


#17 Larz

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 09:11 PM

If the 8th Circuit rules in favor the players, the lockout is lifted immediately and everyone returns to work.



I'll give you a few minutes to catch up
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#18 Iceman88

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 09:15 PM

If the 8th Circuit rules in favor the players, the lockout is lifted immediately and everyone returns to work.


And with the 8th circuit extending the stay that seems extremely unlikely. This quote from tonight's ruling really says it all...

W]e have serious doubts that the district court had jurisdiction to enjoin the League’s lockout, and accordingly conclude that the League has made a strong showing that it is likely to succeed on the merits


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#19 dbatesman

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 09:19 PM

I'll give you a few minutes to catch up


If the lockout is enjoined, the league year begins under the conditions of the last CBA and the two sides work toward a new agreement while football goes on.
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This is like having a cat with leukemia.


#20 flgreen

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 09:28 PM

As a business owner this decision just makes me want to dance. As a NY Jets fan, this is bad news.

The Supreme Court is going to uphold it.

I don’t think the NFLPA (not the players) is going to cave. They are going to continue firing shots, and winning them at lower courts, and losing them in the big courts,

I’m not sure there is going to be football in September
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#21 jason423

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 09:32 PM

Its a big blow for the players since it sounds as if 2 of the 3 basically disagree with almost everything on the initial ruling and lean towards the whole sham decertification and thus see no reason for the courts to even hear this case. I still think the union went about this the wrong way. It was so overtly calculated and you have players all over the internet and in interviews referring to themselves as a union and D and their President. The NFL went through this before and there is language in the CBA about decertifying the union and bringing suit. I understand they wanted to rush into the courts but everything comes across as fake. Had they waited to decertify (and had votes) in March or April I cant see how the NFL could win such a case. But to go on the radio in October and say we have an ace up our sleeve in decertification as a negotiation strategy is just stupid. The players should get the same deal as before minus the top end rookie salaries, but the way they have approached this thing just annoys me to no end and is one of the reasons why nobody cares about the NFL right now.
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#22 Larz

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 09:33 PM

If the lockout is enjoined, the league year begins under the conditions of the last CBA and the two sides work toward a new agreement while football goes on.


I don't think it was ever that cut and dry. Didn't Goodell refuse to rule out the owners simply shutting down all operations if the lockout was lifted ? I don't see 32 billionaires just laying down. I remember being told when this all began the owners had no legal recourse, that the players were going to eat them up and a lock out wouldn't hold.

I still think the quicker resolution is when one side has the big hammer. It will ultimately come down to judge Doty now, if he gives the players a war chest we're screwed, no football this year

If the players can take a year off and still get paid, they will only sign a CBA if they get everything they want, which of course the owners won't do

this is getting depressing
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#23 dbatesman

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 09:38 PM

I don't think it was ever that cut and dry. Didn't Goodell refuse to rule out the owners simply shutting down all operations if the lockout was lifted ? I don't see 32 billionaires just laying down. I remember being told when this all began the owners had no legal recourse, that the players were going to eat them up and a lock out wouldn't hold.

I still think the quicker resolution is when one side has the big hammer. It will ultimately come down to judge Doty now, if he gives the players a war chest we're screwed, no football this year

If the players can take a year off and still get paid, they will only sign a CBA if they get everything they want, which of course the owners won't do

this is getting depressing


I don't know that the owners were ever serious about a full shutdown, and IIRC that would have violated antitrust law anyway. My point was that an injunction gives us football more or less immediately, but the worst-case scenario is the 8th ruling in favor of the owners and Doty ruling in favor of the players, which unfortunately appears is exactly what's going to happen.

Edited by dbatesman, 16 May 2011 - 09:39 PM.

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This is like having a cat with leukemia.


#24 jason423

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 09:45 PM

As a business owner this decision just makes me want to dance. As a NY Jets fan, this is bad news.

The Supreme Court is going to uphold it.

I don’t think the NFLPA (not the players) is going to cave. They are going to continue firing shots, and winning them at lower courts, and losing them in the big courts,

I’m not sure there is going to be football in September


The problem is the players cant hold out like that. This is very different than the original suits where players had real gripes about freedom, pay, treatment, etc...Those players were actually fighting for something. Now you are asking players in a league with big salaries and very short lifespans to possibly miss their last earning year because they feel they deserve a few more dollars that most of these players would never see anyway? Look at a guy like Jamaal Westerman. He is set to make 480K in the last year of his contract. This is probably his last chance to make an impression and earn a contract that goes beyond 2011. Every day that disappears is a day where his window grows smaller and smaller. Essentially the players are asking him to give up $480K so a player like him can earn an extra 10K-50K (depending on what stories about the minimum salaries are true) a year while the big money goes to the stars in the future when he is out of a job in the NFL. That is asking an awful lot when his alternative is likely a 9-5 job paying 30K a year to start so Peyton Manning can earn 23 million per year instead of 20 million per year. There are a ton of guys like him in the NFL and if I was one of them Id be desperate to get back to work and protect my best chance for maximizing my personal earnings.
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#25 jason423

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 09:53 PM

I don't know that the owners were ever serious about a full shutdown, and IIRC that would have violated antitrust law anyway. My point was that an injunction gives us football more or less immediately, but the worst-case scenario is the 8th ruling in favor of the owners and Doty ruling in favor of the players, which unfortunately appears is exactly what's going to happen.


But is the money Doty can possibly give (around 700 million to the entire players association which is a ton of players right now rather than the original award of around 7 million) that much of a help to the players? You are talking about 500K per player max. That might keep the low scale guys on board a bit longer but is going to do nothing for the midwage earners that make over the minimum and have not been careful with their money. Plus by the time the NFL appeals that decision and a final verdict comes down its going to be quite some time before the players see any money at all.
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