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I have seen this mentioned many times, but it is just not true. Last season, Darnell Wright was the 10th pick in the draft. He signed a 4-year $21M contract. If we pick Bowers at 10, assume his contract will be 4-years $22M-$23M range. Less than $6M per year. That would rank him below 20th among TEs - similar to what Mo Alie-Cox, Gerald Everett and Juwan Johnson are getting paid. And then with the 5th year option and tag being lower for TEs, we could potentially lock him up for 6 years at a favorable contract. I think the better argument against Bowers is need and opportunity cost. I think we are better set at TE right now than WR or OL, although Conklin's contract is up after this season. But a vet starting TE will be a lot less $$ to sign than a comparable vet to start at WR or OL. I am not advocating for Bowers, I would prefer Odunze or OL at 10. But I don't think he would be a bad pick if that is the direction we went.

Oh, I hear you. He sucked last year in an embarrassing fashion. Problem is, he and his $11M guaranteed aren’t going anywhere. He was bad with Zach & Co. playing outside with Corey Davis’ retirement, but I expect a much better performance out of the slot with Rodgers. The good news is that this is essentially a contract year for him. He has no guaranteed money after this season. He’ll be playing for a job in 2025 this year, here or somewhere else.

Moore led the team in Receiving as a rookie. They also had Crowder. Conklin is average at best. Let me put it another way, should the Jets not have drafted Hall because they had Michael Carter? So are you insinuating that the Jets shouldn't draft a WR because they have Williams and Wilson. This logic makes no sense. If you can upgrade a position, upgrade it.

Fair on Kupp, but on the flip side the Rams also used tracking data to identify Nacua, and his numbers were bad across the board, especially his shuttle and 3 cone which were abysmal. None of this is dispositive, but pretty interesting I think. Still, I hear you re the lack of testing. But I guess my point is that while we might not have anything quantifiable, NFL teams have access to a lot more (and arguably more relevant) athleticism data. And I'd also push back against the notion a bit that we don't have anything quantifiable. PFF provides player tracking data to teams, and their athleticism metrics (not their subjective grading system) put him as a 99th percentile athlete (I believe the 3 numbers are junior, sophomore, freshman year): Reel Analytics provides player tracking data to college programs (and maybe NFL? not sure there) and they have him at a 99 athleticism grade, grading out ahead of the average wide receiver in certain metrics while carrying another 40-50 pounds. So there is data, it's just that the inputs aren't widely available to the general public. The teams however have the info. And when I look at the whole picture on Bowers, there is nothing that points to him being anything other than a special athlete other than rank speculation about why he didn't test. I'm comfortable with what's out there to make that assessment absent any real evidence to the contrary. Others may not be without testing data, and I can understand that. But we're not flying completely blind, and the NFL teams that actually have to make the decision aren't really flying blind at all. The smart teams in fact might be flying in clearer skies than they would have been say 15 years ago: with testing data but without player tracking metrics.

That reminds me, did you see that great catch JSN made last season?

Forum Hiccup/Double Post.

I genuinely do not know enough about any of that? When it's cited, I don't know what to say. There are some pretty slow players (Danny Dimes and his 4.8 40) clocking some high MPH. So I have no idea what to make of the GPS data? I do feel comfortable speculating that if Brock ran a 4.8, he's drops pretty far in this draft.

I would love me some Malik Washington. I could see him being a stud

I dont remember him ever sayig that

Was Becton a smart pick? OT bust just as much as QB's do. I'm taking a playmaker all day. Hopefully one of the 3 WR's drop but if not take Bowers.

Jets have had it bad, but remember the Browns.

I thought we were talking about the unofficial 40 you cited from three years ago, or how top speed in MPH does not seem to accurately represent/or be a stand-in for 40 yard dashes? But now we're talking about specific GPS data and how we don't have access to it. I'm aware of that. And, I imagine, so are the scouts quoted in the OP. And some of them seem to think Brock is hiding from workouts, and openly speculate as to why. And to the broader point, I'm not saying I know his speed. I agree with you: none of us on this board know. And that's the issue, isn't it? The idea that "he's fast enough, I've seen it on tape vs SEC defenders" is the reason I cited Najee Harris earlier here - another player that did zero athletic testing, dominated the SEC, and looks pedestrian/slow AF in the pros.

Yeah, but...... You are answering the age-old question of what came first, the chicken or the egg? The stadium was approved before Bill was the coach. As far as a tin cup goes, CT was willing to spend 1 billion dollars to attract the Patriots to Hartford. The status of the Patriots franchise pre-2001-Belichick-Brady, James Orthwein was an interim owner between Victor Kiam and Kraft. Probably in the hopes the team could be moved to St. Louis. I am going to push back on the Patriots Place as well. It does not take a Business Major to see what Kraft is doing. He is trying to get bodies to the area. Would the Patriots be worth 6-7 billion without Brady/Belichick? No.

And if we don't take him and he becomes a solid but unspectacular player for another team, there will be half a dozen people here who will spend the next decade posting videos of him catching 5-yard hitches and saying "well well well I guess a TE is a good value after all..."

@Maynard13 Looks like the Vikings believe they can get into the top 3. You’re good at making bad assumptions. I just keep winning.

How do you guys think Kellen Clemons would’ve done had they not drafted Sanchez and instead gave him an opportunity to start in 2009?

“It would have been stupid” isn’t a fact. It’s an opinion. The facts us he himself said he couldn’t come back even if he wanted to. I don’t know how you are rationalizing that this is a debatable thing. He said it. Not me. It’s not my opinion. It’s an actual thing that happened.

You didn’t make a good point. You were arguing about an adjacent point. I’m making an example if it now. You have only yourself to blame.

I think there is very much an in between option. It is an old comp and different position, but I can see him having a Herschel Walker type career. People think Herschel was a bust, but he is 12th in career all purpose yards. I think he was like 3rd when he retired. He is still top 50 in yards from scrimmage and that is spending his best years and 5500 rushing and 1500 receiving yards in the USFL. The hype was just so great that he never really overcame it in the public perception. I can see that happening if we take Bowers at 10.

If we don't take Bowers and he becomes a dynamic TE for another team it will be: 1) We are idiots for passing on this guy! I told you so! Or 2) Well he would never have been good with us because Hackett/Saleh are terrible. Book it!!

Basically, the NYJ have a brittle OL and play on the worst turf in the league. It's not even an if, it's a when they lose multiple starters on the OL do they have an NFL ready replacement or are they scraping practice squads and street FA's to protect the season which is Rodgers health? Also both OT's are on 1 year deals so getting a swing tackle sets the team up for the future. Bowers doesn't have the athleticism and isn't nearly the mismatch Pitts was/is and he isn't the difference maker people projected him to be, although taking an H back at 10 is the Jetsiest thing I can think of. JD knows this is his last chance, he's moving up for one of the big 3 and this is going to be an explosive offense with 3 players who can score any time they touch the ball. That's a lot to defend and something we haven't seen from the NYJ in my lifetime.

Yes twenty minutes ago. Longest orgasm of my life but I’ve adapted enough to type this