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Good post, but I think you missed the biggest issue of all: Cons He has lost control of the locker room and it is clear that there is no discipline, no self-respect, and no passion for the game of football or the New York Jets as an organization from the players on the roster. From nasty tweets to media boycott's to admission of being "old" to DL coaches giving one word answers on media day, to no-show performances on MNF, the list is endless, there clearly is a dysfunctional and toxic environment in Florham Park that players and assistants want to demonstrate against and that's on the head coach. We can live with the rest of the pro's and con's you list above. The pro's can be built upon, the con's can improve over time. But if 52 guys don't respect you now they never will. SAR I

No way. CLE management is useless, but not that useless. If you're trading the #1 pick, you're getting a game-changer, not Jimmy f'ing Garoppolo.

"If Jimmy Clausen is not a successful NFL QB, I'm done. That's it. I'm out." -Mel Kiper

Woody should just hand the keys to the franchise over to Mel Kiper while he's off in the UK. At least if we're going to suck anyway we can prove this guy doesn't know what the **** he's talking about

That roster is a real who's who of people that are gonna lose to Calder.

Growing up in Palm Beach and NYC, I've learned how those with both wealth AND class carry themselves. Bragging about how much your wristwatches cost on an internet board is bearded-stockbroker guy in Die Hard Level Douchebaggery. Regardless of whether it's true. Because honestly, aside from 15 year old kids, nobody gives a ****. Just saying.

2010-2014. 5 NFL drafts with a total of 37 picks. STARTERS OFFENSE: 2 1 a 6th round WR (Enunwa) 1 a 3rd round G (Winters) DEFENSE: 3 2 DT's (Mo and Richardson) 1 average (being generous) S (Pryor) PLAYERS STILL ON TEAM (Including those starters) 8 But yet Mac was suppose to turn this team into the Patriots in two years (one of which he was Executive of the Year nominated by the Pro Football Writers Association) and now an alarmingly high number of fans want him replaced. AND the funny thing about it is, we wonder why this team is mired in mediocrity (which, BTW is inaccurate......we have been quite successful for the past decade by NFL standards)

Just more proof that you guys are the most passionate fans in the world...I just checked and Nov 2016 was the 3rd busiest month in our forums ever. The only two months to beat it? Nov and Dec with Mangini and Favre. Herm Edwards never beat last month. Rex Ryan never beat last month. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Darrelle Revis and Todd Bowles have everyone talking. Pretty impressive since it has been such a tough year on the field. I seriously believe that Jets fans are the most loyal in sports. Sure there are some complaints in with all those posts. But they Jets were winless in November and it was one of our busiest months ever. Totally random I know, but thanks for making JetNation your home. We do appreciate it.

LOL Woody / Multi-millionaire. FWIW, We gave up 4 good seats 3 years after the move to Jersey and never regretted it. Now we buy tix a few times per season or just stay home to boycott a season like this one. If I had a PSL I would be livid.

only because I love all you idiots

By the way, stating that Todd has "held players accountable" makes me question my understanding of the word "accountable". Fitz, worst QB in the league. Todd Bowles reaction? "Ryan is our Quarterback". Revis comes in fat, out of shape, and not giving a crap. Todd's reaction? Keep throwing him out there. Mo Wilk has mailed it in immediately upon signing his deal. Todd's reaction? None. Sheldon Richardson going off the rails, committing personal foul after foul, smoking weed and speeding with a gun and a kid in the car. All good. Just because the man sat Skrine after a performance not half as damaging as any number if Fitzpatrick, and then sat guys who respect him so little they blow off meetings doesn't show accountability, it shows an inconsistent, knee jerk reaction to some situations, while ignoring others. Time for Todd to GO.

So I was going to write an article. But I figured I would include all of you in the discussion. I don't think Todd Bowles should be fired. If your reply is going to be irate, anger filled and 2 or 3 words calling for him to go, please do that in one of the other 20 threads on that topic. I think Bowles should stay and have next year be the deciding factor. Here are the pros and cons. Cons He was 100% wrong on Ryan Fitzpatrick. From naming him the starter after the last game last year when he wasn't under contract to handing him the minute he showed up right as camp was starting, it was clearly a mistake. His in game management has left a lot to be desired. This might be an understatement. There is a long list from how Chris Ivory was used late last season, to time outs being thrown away this year. There have been so many "communication issues" on defense that it is clearly a pattern. When that happens it is on the head coach. The message isn't getting across, that is on him. Pros He does what he thinks is right. People consider this a negative, but this is actually his greatest positive. We have been screaming for QB changes because he was wrong on Fitzpatrick. But he did go to Geno earlier in the season. He was slow to go to Petty, but Petty needs work. He didn't listen to the rants calling for him to move, he wanted to make sure Petty was 100% healthy and as close to being ready as possible. The easy way out would have been playing Petty earlier, but that might not have been in Petty's long term best interests. So he held off. Really have to commend him for that because you watch your head coach to not be reactionary. Accountability. There is more work to be done here, but he does hold players accountable. Wilkerson and Richardson were benched. Sheldon is seeing his snap count decrease. This is a coach that isn't afraid to send a message to his star players. The guy knows the game. Everyone will laugh at this because it is easy to say otherwise. But he played in the league. He has coached since then and he has been a successful coordinator in the league. He has the experience, yet he is young enough to still learn more and improve. There are obviously more pros and cons, feel free to add your thoughts. But my Conclusion is that: Bowels should come back and be graded on next season. The demise of Ryan Fitzpatrick was easy to see coming. Big hit on Bowles and Macc for not being on the right side of that decision. What wasn't as easy to see coming was the complete drop off of Darrelle Revis. He wasn't Revis Island last season, but aside from his wrist injury he was still good. This season is a different story and there was no way to see this drop off coming all in one season. Factor in the lack of depth in the secondary behind him and you have a cornerback problem of epic proportion. He should get another shot to prove that he can build a top defense here. Kacy Rodgers has to be fired. It isn't working out. He was never a Defensive Coordinator before he got here and this defense has so many issues. You have to make a change here. Let's see how the QB situation plays out. We will know a lot more about Petty after the next four weeks. Is he in the mix for next season? Is he not in the mix? Is Hackenberg progressing? We don't know those answers right now, but pulling the plug on this rebuilding process would be a mistake. Yes, this has been a rebuilding process even thought they have signed free agents. There haven't been many contracts that Macc has handed out that will really cripple the Jets Mike Tannenbaum style long term. Wilkerson has to improve. Revis won't have the same salary next year, or he won't be back. But this has been a rebuilding process, they just got slightly sidetracked with a 30 plus TD season from Fitzpatrick last year. The easy way didn't work out but they are in this for the long haul. We should give them some time, switching coaches and GMs every few years isn't working out. Bowels can improve, he can learn from this. Let's see how we feel next year, let's see if they can collectively develop a QB. Because let's be truthful, not much is going to matter until they solve that problem. Thoughts? Again, I am trying to move beyond the "He has to go". Or "The stadium has $6 seats, we are a joke" kind of posts. Let's dig deep here and make your case, good or bad, for Todd Bowles.

Ape does not have time for teh mafia. Yep.."Hey Glenn, Pete here.. So any who I was sitting back sipping a White Russian, cranking Santana on my Onkyo deck, chilling with only my Sanchez jersey on and stroking my...... Chad Pennington Pez dispenser. Thinking to myself it's been awhile since we internetted. Fat, Twink, Ape, virgin, and Smash all give their best. Fat agree to as long as he wasn't given anything he could eat. Miss you.

Darron Lee was selected right where he was "slated" by most draft "experts". You can try and discredit the selection of Leo all you want. A better example of GM's who f*cked up that draft would be the two other teams you listed because they did exactly what you're implying Mac does. They reached on talent and passed on the BPA that provided the most value . This is not "a matter of opinion". You are flat out wrong. We had a bigger need and and the question posed was whether or not he could differentiate BPA/Need/Value. He did. He doesn't "lose" credit because you're mad and need something or someone to blame. Hackenberg is the only prospect that he probably reached on and most of us here know that. That said, if you like a QB (and I personally liked the upside of Hack) and you don't think he'll be around the next time you pick, then go get him...a point that contradicts your theory that he doesn't focus or play aggressive when it comes to premium positions. It's a completely different story when it comes to QB. Other than that, there haven't been any reaches.

The argument was that he has no idea how to gauge value over need/position/etc. There isn't a universe where what you are saying is correct. We "needed" WR more than DE and passed on Kevin White to take the BPA. Kicking your feet and saying "Leo doesn't count" because you're pissed off at the fact that our team sucks this year and this goes against your feelings doesn't make it true.

It was never this bad under Rex. Ever.

So in other words, no credit for Leo. Blame for a guy who injured himself playing. Gives you the opportunity to make blanket statements that you have no idea have any meaning whatsoever to what he will or wont be. Off a handful of games, most while injurted, with Fitz as his only QB. Congrats. Then some complete nonsense about Lee not turning his head as a way to discredit what is obvious to anyone a talented player with a chance and the usual knock on a guy who hasnt played a snap of NFL football. Nostradamus the GM has spoken. Again, congrats!

I've said it many times. They finally have a GM who is focused on finding the long-term solution at QB. He knew it wasn't Geno so he's drafted two QB's, traded and re-signed another to hold the fort, and explored trade possibilities for other significant upgrades according to reports (Glennon, Couisins) There was never a threat of Fitz being here as a long-term starter. The only thing I wanted to see from Mac was that he knew Geno isn't the answer, and he saw that rather quickly.

Nobody is forcing you to pay for anything. You dont like going to the game or watching the Jets play. Don't pay, don't go. Simple. Complaining about something you willfully do is dumb.

I am bumping up this thread because so many of us are quick to forget that Hack, if given the chance and improves for real, can be our franchise QB. That Jets including Bowles and Mac went out and had a secret viewing of Hackenberg and thought that he was real deal. Some of us thought that Hack was going to the pick and we have to let Bowles have a chnce to get the guy under center whom he truly believes in!!!

If not QB in round 1, I say take advantage of the Chad Kelly injury and grab him in the middle rounds.

how about trading down? package sheldon, wilk, and their first round pick for 2 lower first rounders and maybe a 3rd. get the beef for the oline and also pick up another corner. there are qb's out there who can be traded for or are free agents. or maybe petty or hack for next season. the problem with the jets is that they need to fix both offense and defense. i'm sure most thought the defense was fixed after mac brought in revis, gilchrist, and skrine. it wasn't.

So I'm number 6? I see how it is.

You just can't keep firing coaches and GMs every two years esp after following a good season. It's important to see if he can get these guys to show up and play the rest of the season. Obviously he didn't last Monday. It was a no show. I saw Bowles interviewed on Jets Open Mic a few days ago and he looked like a beaten man. He didn't go off the grid the way Idzik did two years ago at his presser but he looked down and almost out. So let's see what he can do the last 4 games starting tomorrow. If the team mails it in for the rest of the season then you could have a point. But he's respected around the league and has payed his dues.

I'm in.

In

To say that his in-game management has been an issue is an understatement. The biggest problem with Bowles is that he's playing a 1980's version of football in 2016. He has no idea how or when to use timeouts (a running theme in NY for 10+ years) and has punted away potential victories on too many occasions to count. These aren't "mistakes" to Bowles (he's said so); this is his philosophical approach to the game and his way of football life. That's a fine approach in 1980 when teams were running 30 times a game at a clip of 3.5 yards a carry and QBs were completing 55% of their passes, but the game is totally different now. He's made mistakes I have never seen a coach make on any level. Failing to go for two against the Bills, punting against Oakland in 2015 and Pittsburgh in 2016, etc. I can (and have) posted a thread on the number of mistakes he's made that it's not even worth me going through every one of them again. This is a guy who is clearly in over his head. Maybe he gets better, maybe he doesn't, but I see so few positives versus his negatives that I can't justify him getting a third year.

LOL I caught that too....Drink some pepto ... On a serious note, the OP was very well written and though out (sans "Bowels"). My issues are: The team has regressed week in and week out, as though they have given up. They wanted no part of that game Monday, but I will get to that. He is supposed to be a defensive guru and the defense ranks among the worst Jet defenses of all time, so much so that it reminds me of the defenses of the late 70's when they couldn't stop a leak. I have heard on more than 1 occasion that Bowltite is not involved with the offense at all which tome is grounds for termination of any manager. A manager, or Head Coach is supposed to have his finger on the entire team. If he is concentrating on the defense only, that is even more of an indication that he is not able to lead this team. They won 10 games last season, barely and crapped the bed when it mattered. Their record against playoff teams is a disgrace regardless, they beat up on the weak sisters last year. He has zero personality and his team mirrors that. They play boring football, conservative and not to lose, which I have said a few times, they cannot even do that right. This season is second to Kotites 1-15 IMO, they are unwatchable and the lack of fannies in the mausoleum in the swamp is a testament to that. While I did not expect to win Monday night, that was as embarrassed as I can ever recall being watching the Jet organization play. Even under Kotite, the team tried, this guy has lost this team. So if you are ready for another season of this garbage with zero hope for the future, by all means go ahead and bring him back next year. I am 55 years old, running out of time to see my Jets win a SB so the faster we move on to someone who could potentially lead us there, the happier I will be.

So, the biggest positive is that "he does what he thinks is right." I ask you this. What percentage of Bowles' actions can be considered thought-out and logical? With regards to preparation, game planning, in-game adjustments, handling off-field problems, media relations, benchings, etc. In my estimation it is between 10-19%. That is just not good enough. Bowles doesn't motivate. And he doesn't demonstrate enough intelligence to play chess. A 3rd year will not change that. "Doing what he thinks is right" is just another way of saying "stubborn" from a different point of view.

He doesn't adjust when things aren't working. His stubborn to the point of obstinacy. He has lost the locker room. His coaching staff is underperforming. His in game management is terrible. His refusal to bench players that are completely failing is absurd. That He doesn't seem to be improving in any of these areas is a massive red flag. His defensive schemes are being torn to shreds weekly. And on and on. I would have fired him after the Colts debacle.

I wouldn't be surprised if Marvin Lewis is fired.

B******T. You can't look at the performance of a defense as a whole in ONE season and come to the conclusion that individual players are 'busts'. WTF??? Wilk is NOT a bust. He was considered to be one of the top D-linemen in the league before this season. Richardson is FAR from a 'bust'. L.Williams is a rising star. Yes, this season the defense AS A WHOLE has been putrid. And that's not even fair b/c they have been very good at stopping the run. But that does not equate to players being busts. It makes no sense to equate the two. Thank god you are not running the team b/c you would be cutting guys left and right after a bad game. No turnovers since 2005???? How about all the TO's the defense forced, oh, I dunno, LAST YEAR?!! Ugh, I can't even with these kinds of comments. My definition of a 'bust' is a player that does not make an impact given the position at which he was drafted. For example. A first round pick should make a bigger impact on the team than a 2nd or 3rd rounder, the idea being that they are the better talent with bigger upside, which is why they are drafted higher. The timing depends on the player. Some players take longer to develop than others but may still make a big impact eventually. It depends. A player drafted late is expected to have less talent and therefore there are lower expectations. If he can start or even contribute on special teams, you can't really call a late round draft pick a bust. Wilk was a late first rounder. He exceeded expectations as he developed int one of the top D-linemen in the league before his broken leg and poor performance this year. L.Williams was a high first rounder. He is still developing but has already shown sign of stardom. Richardson was a high first round pick (13 overall). He immediately showed promise and signs of stardom. He has been a bit slower in putting up the expected production, but I don't think anyone would call him a bust. In fact, most will agree he is a perfect example of a poorly utilized talent.

BTW. Given the performance on Monday, I think it's important to have players who want to play with effort. And Lee is one of those

Exactly. I mean, in this instance I agree with with him, but Kiper, for the most part, is an arrogant idiot.

Yeah, in history. Of the world or the universe?

Hackenberg will be 23 years old opening day for the 2018 season. So if he doesn't play for his first 2 pro seasons, he will be as old as some of the rookies coming out in the 2018 NFL draft. Bryce Petty is 25 right now. Hack has a lot of time to develop.

Difference is he did it for ethical reasons and is still a Jet fan while you did it becside you are a tightwad who hates everything and everybody involved with the team.....( but Geno of course)

Agree, and did the same damn thing.

Can't say I agree with Sar on a lot of things, but this laundry list is pretty damming. May not agree with all the points, but they are all at least arguable. I've really done a 180 on this over the last few weeks, not quite ready to drop the trap door on Bowles right now, but he must have an impact on the team over the last month to keep his job if I were in charge.

Nah a 10 and 6 with a easier schedule like us last year as example can be misleading keep it win your division is always the goal

If the Browns give up a number one pick in a deal for him they truly are hopeless

The Cleveland Browns are going to be the next team to over pay for a Pats jag QB that achieves for a short time in New England.

Lynching the mods is never a bad idea in this game imo.

Everyone's in trouble. I'm actually going to pay attention to this game. All 15 of my personalities.

ORLY?

Cons: -In game clock management is one of the worst I've seen (and I watched the Herman Edwards teams) and it's not getting better. -He challenges plays based on prayers and hope, rather than a strong case. It was the same thing with Rex, really disappointed with a play that is close, let's challenge it anyway approach. -Lack of preparation, we see the team come out flat consistently. Furthermore, we see the team come out after calling a time out with a dud play far more often than not. At least two-three times this year, there was a critical drive by the opposing team, where we called time out to regroup, and came out with a horrible play. This also shows in plays where we kick extra points that won't help us, instead of going for two. I was watching a game this weekend (I think Raiders) where they went up 12 points, and instantly everyone on the team holding up two fingers for the conversion? Us? We trot out the kicker because our coach isn't thinking. -I disagree about accountability. I don't think he holds people accountable at all. I think he tries to treat people like "men" approach too much, where he tries to let them figure it out, and he doesn't want to step on veteran toes. There is no way, any accountable coach leaves in Fitzpatrick in for this long. We saw it with Cromartie last year. -No commitment to youth, as he seems to favor the veterans heavily which stunts growth. We see this with the Forte-Powell mix, as well as the lack of Burris/Roberts when we clearly have a struggling defense. His commitment to Fitzpatrick in the off-season was one of the worst example of coaching you will see in the NFL. To all but name a free agent as the starter kills any negotiation leverage for the Jets (worse than Rex blowing smoke up Revis' behind during negotiations) and demoralizes the three young QBs on the roster. In fact, the whole team is constructed for a QB with strong arm and/or legs, which is exactly the opposite of Fitzpatrick. He should have kept his mouth shut, and just dealt with the players on the roster. -Lack of innovation: I don't see anything innovative from him. No up tempo offense (the spread is clearly Gailey's child), very few trick plays, no real identity on defense. With Rex, you knew he was coming up with exotic blitzes or weird coverage to throw off the defense. With Bowles, it feels as if he just puts the base defense in there and hopes things go right. For example, Lee is an A or B gap blitz player that can wreck havoc, but we rarely do it because he has to be the spy on the running back or TE. This is extremely visible in regards to how the corners play off the ball, instead of press coverage. Last year against Buffalo, Watkins made a killing running simple come back routes, and the defense never adjusted. -Lack of aggression- We rarely push the ball before the half, almost always willing to concede the last minute or so. So many other teams push the ball, call time outs to set up chances, but we don't do that. -Lack of improvement- Our young players haven't really improved, sans Enunwa. Everyone else has seemed to plateau or go backwards under Bowles. High draft picks in Pryor/Williams/Wilkerson/Sheldon haven't improved since they've been here. Pro: -He's deaf to the media, which is needed in such an environment. Especially with beat writers that are trying to incite trouble for clicks.

Nah, blaming Zander.

I'm not totally against giving him another year, but I don't think he'll improve. He is not going to fire Kacy Rogers. He is so conservative I think this game has passed him by. His last boss is anything but conservative, but not of that moxy has rubbed off on him. Biggest reason to move on from Bowles (correct spelling) is that this defensive guru's defense sucks.

Who are you referring to? Richardson? He was drafted in 2013 when we only had Wilk. Are you talking about L.Williams? Well he was easily the BPA and looks to be one of the best draft picks the Jets have made in years (since Revis). Not sure why Jets fans complain about this as none of the guys the Jets took turned out to be busts. Since 2004 (like 12 years), the Jets have taken 5 D-linemen in the first round. 1 was a bust (Coples), 2 if you could Gholston (who's a LB). Otherwise, they got Wilk, Richardson and L.Williams. D.Boose was the last D-lineman they took in the second round- in 1998.