Scott99

good points about Gronk, I believe he had ankle surgery 2 days after the SB against the Giants. He wasn't Gronk as people know him. He just had no explosion running or jumping. He's a huge difference maker.

Have faith Jet's fans, every team has one bad game a year, a head scratcher if you will. Jet's defense had a bad day, I can't see them repeating this type of performance again, they are just too talented. Also 2 terrible non calls, don't think it would've changed the game, but bad non calls nonetheless. The helmet crest to the chest of Geno should've been a personal foul, and that was definitely pass interference on the last pass to Marshall, don't know what the refs were looking at. Keep your heads up Jet's fans, you guys have a good team with a bright future.

Like I said in my original post, some people will have an open mind, others will let their hate guide them. Read the FULL Wells Report and then come back to me. That being said, it's very difficult to get your point across in a message board. I too am tired of typing 800 words to get a reply saying essentially nothing. I tell you what, I live in NY, I'd be glad to meet any Jet's fan for a beer to discuss the subject. I like most Jet's fans, very passionate fans.

Actually, I read the full Wells Report unlike most people. Most people read the ESPN headlines and took them as gospel. I have complete understanding of that report and its complete disregard of the Ideal Gas Law which I hope to learn some day if I ever get to 9th grade. Bottom line is, Deflategate or Framegate, or Stupidgate or whatever you want to call it was a witch hunt which was exposed in a court of law by a judge. The NFL is 0-5 in court, soon to be 0-6. If you can't see that the NFL leadership (what an oxymoron) is corrupt, hell Goodell had to go to another court case during Deflategate for contempt, against HIM. Another funny thing that just kills me, is fans think Goodell is in bed with Kraft, and the Pats get preferential treatment because of it. Goodell has crushed Kraft by taking high draft choices and millions of dollars, and the only reason they got a #1 pick from the Pats THIS time, is because Kraft is a wussy and bent over royally. He knew the NFL had no proof and still backed down. A lot of Pats fans realize it's all because he doesn't want Goodell as an enemy and wants a Super Bowl in Gillette. It's all about not making waves, money, and the SB at Gillette. Goodell obviously hates Kraft and the Pats.

please re-read, you are misquoting me, because I never said "a ball can't decrease 2 pounds per square inch because a ball doesn't even weigh a pound." I said 2 pounds under not 2 pounds per square inch under. Trust me, us Pat's fans understand the difference after 6 months of bullsh*t. I appreciate your response though and if you have any "facts" you can provide that refute the "facts" I've stated, I'd more than welcome them. It would help me get past my 7th grade education level.

You're right, early in his career he was at Russell Wilson caliber, a good game manager with a good running game and defense, especially his first season. But I think he started to become really good in his SECOND season. They drafted Deion Branch who paired up with Troy Brown, and the first 3 games of the 2002 season was a bombs away attitude. Branch got injured and they seemed to go back to being a running team (Brady got hurt too but kept playing and led the NFL in TD passes). 2006 was a pretty amazing season for Brady, horrible weapons and an aging banged up defense, but he still got them to the AFCCG (Colts won). He really took off in 2007.

Good points. Bottom line, the Giants were the better team in both games. In 2007, the attacked the Pat's main weakness, their O-Line. Very smart game plan. In 2011, they were just a better team, the Pats were nowhere as good as in 2007. I was at that Steelers game last year. My mom is a HUGE Jet's fan and I try to take her to a game every year.

Hi ladies and gents, Pat's fan coming in peace. Very interesting thread and some great comments from everyone. Though I'm a Pat's fan, and have been one since 1975, I don't have tunnel vision, I'm a football fan as well and have been watching the NFL for many years. It has always been my contention that Joe Montana is the greatest QB I've ever seen. You can't argue with 4-0 in SBs and 11 tds vs ZERO Ints, that's just incredible. I think the 49ers destruction of the Broncos was the most perfect QB play I've ever seen in the SB by any QB. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, I have to say kudos to Jet's fans, even the haters rank Brady as one of the all time greats (some of you say he's the greatest, mind blown). I have a ton of respect for the Jet's and the Jet's fans. One subject I wanted to bring up is cheating. Regardless of what I say, there will be some who will never change their minds, nor never do the research no matter what. There are others with open minds that may listen. There is a lot of misinformation out there, and I will only try to relate facts. These are facts that I believe can not be refuted, no matter your hatred. The Pats have been penalized for cheating in ONE game. Let's look at that. Spygate. The Pats were penalized for filming the Jet's defensive signals in game 1 of the 2007 season. That is a fact. No ifs ands or buts. Another fact is, this was not AGAINST THE RULES until the 2007 season. Therefore, to say anything the Pats did as far as winning championships from 2001-2004 is tainted is factually incorrect. You can put all the asterisks you want, but if they were filming signals from 2000-2006, there are no penalties for ANY team that did that. Jimmy Johnson claimed he did that his whole career, John Madden mentioned this was common practice (mentioned during one of his game broadcasts). This was normal operating procedure up until the the start of the 2007 season. So let's go to the burning/bombing/incinerating/burying of the tapes by that HUGE Pat's fan Goodell. Those tapes don't matter. Let me repeat that, those tapes don't matter, because it wasn't against the rules until 2007, the investigation happened after game one of the 2007 season. Any tapes prior to the 2007 DON'T MATTER. As far as the alleged taping of the Rams practice prior to the SB, this has been refuted dozens of times, even by the newspaper that started that rumor, and by the so-called source. Ok, let's go to that farce Deflategate. Like I said earlier, there is A LOT of misinformation out there. All you had to do was read what ESPN said (footballs were 2 pounds under), and then read the Wells report to see ESPN was incorrect, yet never corrected their misinformation. Also, in the Wells Report, they show the numbers (which wants 2 pounds under, which is impossible since a football doesn't even weigh a pound). Also, if you take the Wells report as gospel (most people do including ESPN and Goodell), it clearly states they don't have ANY proof anyone deflated any footballs, and NFL's lawyers ADMITTED THIS TO A JUDGE IN A COURTROOM. These are facts. Facts the NFL tried to use, and failed miserably. Wording from the Wells report was used by the Judge to vacate Brady's suspension. Also, the gauge the NFL tried to use that showed Patriot's footballs weren't up to NFL approved levels (11 of 12 footballs) was used to test the Colt's footballs, and 3 out of 4 of THEIR footballs weren't up to approved levels. This is fact according to the Wells report. Question needs to be asked, why weren't the rest of the Colt's 8 footballs checked ? So you can say the Pats and Brady cheated by deflating footballs to get a competitive edge, but the NFL hasn't been able to prove that, and even if you argue Brady's appeal was only about the suspension, I agree with that. But it still came out in a court in front of a judge, as stated by an NFL lawyer, that the NFL has NO PROOF that anyone deflated any footballs. That is a fact that can not be refuted, it is in black and white. I can provide a ton more facts, but this response is long enough. I appreciate any comments, and like I said, respect the Jets and Jet's fans. I've even defended the Jets several times on Pat's boards. In summary, I'll gladly accept Brady as the #2 QB of all time and agree with a lot of you guys that Montana is the best I've ever seen.