JTJet
-
Posts
8,986 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
1
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Events
Articles
Posts posted by JTJet
-
-
3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:
Were you able to reach? Don't keep us in suspense like that.
-
4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:
Try their final college seasons, the season that led to their draft rankings. Not 32 starts vs 24
That's just moronic. Why would we selectively choose just a single season where one player played 15 games and the other played half of that (8) due to injury ? .... oh wait, cause it's the only way it will fit your narrative. Their careers are as close to a direct comparison as you can get, 29 vs 32. Get out of here with that nonsense lol
But for the sake of argument, if that's how you want to do it, we are going to adjust Oliver's numbers to fit a full 15 games and the outcome still proves you wrong...
Q Williams
45 Tackles 26 Assisted 71 Total 19.5 For Loss 8.5 Sacks 1 Pass deflected
E Oliver (adjusted from 8 to 15 Games based on his per game production)
55 Tackles 47 Assisted 102 Total 25.5 For Loss 5 Sacks 4 Pass deflected 2 Forced Fumbles
So clearly Ed Oliver was on pace to blow the doors off Q. Numbers dont lie man, and I wish I were wrong.
-
Just now, Jet Nut said:
You might want to stop calling me high, in one season he topped Oliver.
He has topped Oliver exactly one time since they began their college careers...
-Most Sacks in a season
Oliver has put up higher numbers than Q in the following
-Most Tackles in a season
-Most Solo Tackles in a season
-Most Assisted Tackles in a season
-Most Tackles for Loss
-Most Passes Deflected
-Most Forced Fumbles
-Most Fumbles Recovered
And just to put the explanation point on it, Oliver accomplished each of these in only 12 game seasons. The only time Q topped Oliver, he played 14 games lol.
-
2 minutes ago, RobR said:
It sure did, it made you look like the fool that you are. Maybe you can point out the breakdown of someone else, reference their website, and claim it as your own.
Now go search for some film showing QW playing the nose.
Let's all just agree that Oliver was the better college prospect and move back on to arguing about Leo lol
-
13 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:
My preference going into the draft assuming Bosa would be gone and we’d go defensive side of the ball was
Allen
Oliver
Williams
To be honest though, by the time we picked Q, I was resigned to it. Most experts had him in their top 3 and I was hoping to be pleasantly surprised. It just didn’t make sense though, unless we were drafting him as a Leo replacement.
Then reading the reports out of camp, it dawned on me this could become a historically bad draft class for the Jets.
QW and Polite were running with the 2s and 3s, Edoga and Wesco weren’t even doing that, Austin was on the shelf, and the one guy who seemed like he could at least get in the rotation at LB had about 34 prior shoulder injuries coming out of school.
If Quinnen doesn’t pan out, what a waste of an offseason we had.
At least Bless is playing well, thankfully. Cashman showed a ton of promise too.
-
2
-
-
5 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:
He also faced better competition. That argument always goes both ways unless you're talking about somebody who went to Vanderbilt or something.
Oliver was basically the same player he is right now when he walked onto campus. Most people didn't know who Williams was a year ago. Upside vs known commodity is open to debate, but if you're going to have that debate after eleven games obviously it's going to tend to favor the latter.
Which is why the whole debate started in the first place. Oliver had a better resume, it's not something really even up to debate from a pure production/accolades standpoint.
-
2
-
-
1 minute ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:
It's not like this is an apples to apples comparison. Williams is mostly playing nose tackle and Oliver is playing three-technique with the bulk of his snaps coming on passing downs. If the roles are reversed I'm more confident in Williams matching Oliver's performance than vice versa.
I would have taken Oliver at the time and in hindsight I'd take Allen like everybody else but it's kind of curious that Williams doesn't get the same benefit of the doubt that the chosen ginger gets in terms of making allowances for situation.
Personally I care about direct comparisons for numbers regardless of specific scheme. You are what your numbers say you are, same goes for Sammy.
Unfortunately as of right now, Q's numbers say he wasnt the right pick.
-
3 minutes ago, RobR said:
And that is leaving out all of his accolades. He won the Willis trophy as a true freshman, then won the Outland a year later. 3X 1st team AA. Conference player of the year, etc.
The following year QW started at Bama. Then we drafted him.
Exactly. Q did at least win the Outland the year after Oliver, so I think that should be stated in fairness.
And another point is that Q played with some of the absolute best players in the NCAA on his team and maybe the greatest college coach of all time. Oliver had none of that.
-
- Popular Post
- Popular Post
8 minutes ago, RobR said:You're right. Olivers was much better and it's not even comparable.
12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:Olivers college resume wasn't anywhere near what Q's was.
Not even close
Just so it's here for review
Williams - 29 Game career
91 Total Tackles (56 Solo/26 For Loss) - 10 Sacks - 1 Pass defense
Oliver - 32 Game career
163 Total Tackles (122 Solo/53 For Loss) - 13.5 Sacks - 11 Pass defense - 5 Forced Fumbles - 1 Fumble Recover
...I'm pretty sure this clarifies that argument.
-
3
-
2
-
1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:
Olivers college resume wasn't anywhere near what Q's was.
Not even close
You're high as a kite lol. Might want to go back and compare. It's not remotely close in favor of Oliver.
-
1
-
2
-
-
10 minutes ago, RobR said:
Don't forget that Williams was redshirted, so you're comparing his RS freshman year compared to Olivers true freshman year.
So a little recap: Oliver was a two time All American and won an Outland Trophy as the best Lineman in the country regardless of offense or defense before QW even became a starter for Bama.
Well that was intentional, just to show that Oliver was making a direct impact at the first available opportunity while Q was buried behind people.
-
46 minutes ago, RobR said:
Some viewed him as the best defensive player in the country as a true freshman.....myself included.
For sure. His Freshman year blew Quinnens Feshman year out of the water, not even remotely close.
54 minutes ago, isired said:59 minutes ago, JTJet said:This is completely subjective. Ed Oliver was viewed the exact same way his sophomore year AND he had far more game tape and production.I liked Oliver and always prefer production to measurables, I'm just saying that it wasn't ridiculous to take Q.
Production is what really matters in the end so yeah, I would prefer that too. I think GMs get caught up in the hype of big name school prospects.
Look at a direct freshman year comparison.
Q Williams 11 Tackles 6 For Loss 2 Sacks... in 14 Games
E Oliver 46 Tackles 22 For Loss 5 Sacks 6 Pass Defense 2 Forced Fumbles... in 2 less games!
People can get caught up in the argument if Q was a starter or not, but if he was more talented at the point of his freshman year, he would have been the starter on his team. Oliver showed consitency for 2.5 years before Injury. William's 2018 was basically what Oliver did in both 2016 and 2017 and was on track to do in 2018.
-
21 minutes ago, isired said:
It wasn't just Kiper. Q was thought of as an instant starter and eventual pro bowler, top 5 on everyone's board.
This is completely subjective. Ed Oliver was viewed the exact same way his sophomore year AND he had far more game tape and production.
-
28 minutes ago, isired said:3 hours ago, JTJet said:Why cant it be that easy?
The point has nothing to do with picking in the 3rd and everything to do with the fact that we could have gotten better production from the 6th overall pick if we just picked the right guy.
Ed Oliver was sitting there with a better college resume than Q... and Mac did typical Mac things, basing his board off of Mel Kiper instead of using his own two eyes.You know that if everybody knew how things were going to turn out, Tom Brady wouldn't have been passed over 6x by every team, he'd have been #1 overall. Etc.
Not even close to the same thing. Nobody had Tom Brady remotely rated to be drafted.
Ed Oliver by some was viewed as the best overall player his sophomore year and even up until draft day, some people were still debating if he or Q were better.
-
1
-
-
Just now, isired said:1 hour ago, JTJet said:Compare first season 11 game production of DTs and toss in Leonard Williams.
Q Williams 21 Tack 1.5 Sack 1 PassD 3 Stuffs (7 Games)
E Oliver 28 Tack 5 Sacks 2 PassD 1 ForceF
C Wilkins 42 Tack 1 Sack 1 PassD 2 Stuffs
D Lawrence 28 Tack 2.5 Sack 1 PassD 1 ForceF 1 BlockedK
J Simmons 17 Tack 1 Sack 1 Stuff (5 Games)
...
Leo Williams 39 Tack .5 Sack 8 Stuffs
...
Now for an actual good 1st round DT through 11 games.
Fletcher Cox 28 Tack 4.5 Sack 4 Stuffs 1 ForceF 4 PassD (10 Games)
...Still think we should have picked Leo or Q at 6th overall?
If its that easy, just tell us who the 3rd round 40 tackle 5.5 sack DT is next year, and we'll pair him with Williams and dominate.
Why cant it be that easy?
The point has nothing to do with picking in the 3rd and everything to do with the fact that we could have gotten better production from the 6th overall pick if we just picked the right guy.
Ed Oliver was sitting there with a better college resume than Q... and Mac did typical Mac things, basing his board off of Mel Kiper instead of using his own two eyes.
-
1 minute ago, T0mShane said:
Why Jim whyyyy
That was just a bad snap, nothing to do with Patterson.
-
I will say this, groin injuries are no joke to come back from, a lot of recovery time.
I wont go into detail with how I pulled mine but it involves olive oil, 3 band-aids, and a copy of "Thrashin" on VHS...
-
2
-
-
Compare first season 11 game production of DTs and toss in Leonard Williams.
Q Williams 21 Tack 1.5 Sack 1 PassD 3 Stuffs (7 Games)
E Oliver 28 Tack 5 Sacks 2 PassD 1 ForceF
C Wilkins 42 Tack 1 Sack 1 PassD 2 Stuffs
D Lawrence 28 Tack 2.5 Sack 1 PassD 1 ForceF 1 BlockedK
J Simmons 17 Tack 1 Sack 1 Stuff (5 Games)
...
Leo Williams 39 Tack .5 Sack 8 Stuffs
...
Now for an actual good 1st round DT through 11 games.
Fletcher Cox 28 Tack 4.5 Sack 4 Stuffs 1 ForceF 4 PassD (10 Games)
...Still think we should have picked Leo or Q at 6th overall?
-
1
-
-
16 minutes ago, TeddEY said:
Was QW’s tape really better than Oliver’s? I’m not a big CFB guy, but I can’t help but feel if QW plays for a team outside the top 10, everything is different.
Q got placed higher solely off of being an Alabama guy. I still find it amazing anyone valued him over Oliver, in fact a ton of mocks at the beginning of last years college football season had Oliver as the number 1 pick actually.
Oliver had been described as a man amongst boys during his college career and he looks the part, meanwhile Q has been labeled "Baby Williams" and everyone makes the lame excuse the he needs a "full nfl offseason" to come in to his own which is crap. All he did at Bama was work out and play football, then had pre draft prep, nfl offseason, and pre season, yet.. looks like an overgrown high school sophomore.
-
1
-
1
-
-
- Popular Post
- Popular Post
100% agree on this.
I'm a bit torn though, if your return is based off of our wins/losses, and you are getting paid tens of millions to be our defensive leader... you should be out there no matter what.
-
4
-
2
-
1
-
4 hours ago, RonaldJet said:
Guys like David Blough get into the NFL because they are good at playing the position and have what it takes between the ears. Ryan Fitzpatrick is the ultimate example.
Sam has the talent and the smarts, but he’s not advanced at all with regards to the nuances or the QB position. When I start seeing him manipulate the pocket instead of vacating it at the first sign of trouble I will feel better. When do you ever see Darnold hang in the pocket until the last minute? He’s started to do a better job stepping up the past few weeks, but it’s still not where it needs to be.
This is painfully inept.
Using Blough to compare against Darnold in any way, shape, or form is just an insult to intelligence.
If he had 10% of the talent, smarts, football knowledge, or athletic ability that Darnold has, he wouldnt have been 3rd string on the Detroit Lions (his second team in a half year). If he "has what it takes between the ears", he would have been drafted by a single NFL team, he was not.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, Losmeister said:
dude averaged 10 wins his 1st 4 yrs...
i guess 4-7 wins/yr is ok if you're SPECIAL
... yet never won a single playoff game. So...
-
1
-
-
- Popular Post
- Popular Post
1 hour ago, RonaldJet said:The Red Rifle may not have the best arm in the world, but he is an absolute master in the pocket. Sams biggest weakness is the fact that he is terrible in the pocket and his footwork goes to hell when pressure is around him. Hopefully he keeps an eye on Dalton (who owns the Jets), and it motivates him to get better.
Guys like Danny Dimes, Red Rifle, and David Blough don’t have near the arm talent Sam does, but play the position better. I’m seeing Josh Allen improve a lot, but still don’t see enough improvement from Sam in this area (which is an indictment on coaching). Eventually teams are going to make adjustments to keep him in the pocket and he will probably struggle.
-
6
-
Cam Jordan with mouth full of turkey, spewing out of his mouth, dribbling down his chin, choking on a wishbone...
Michelle T: Cam Cam! Answer my question before you get water!
😂
Content Partnership
Site Sponsor
NY Jets Podcast
A bunch of Giants articles about Leonard Williams buyer’s remorse suspiciously published concurrently
in NY Jets Forum
Posted
You're the one comparing a 15 game season to someone's 8 game season, what sense does that make? Of course Quinnen would have better numbers the last year, he played 7 more games than Oliver lol. The only way to fairly compare their last year is to base off of an average/per game basis, so to make it simple, here is "actual per game" instead of adjusted for the whole season...
Q Williams
3 Tackles 1.73 Assist 4.73 Total 1.3 For Loss .56 Sacks .06 Pass Deflects
E Oliver
3.66 Tackles 3.13 Assist 6.8 Total 1.68 For Loss .33 Sacks .26 Pass Deflects .13 Forced Fumbles
If Ed Oliver played 15 games his last year like Q, he would have crushed him. Funny thing is I dont care for either player, and was a Josh Allen guy. The only reason i got in the debate was to show that from a numbers standpoint, saying Q had a better college resume was flat out incorrect.