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THE BARON

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Posts posted by THE BARON

  1. 1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

    I should have know.  I thought this was a GAS (Guitar Acquisition Syndrome) thread, but I knew if it were SJ or JGB, it would just be regular gas.  

    I have been considering:

    1_Full_Straight_Front_NA-ec7069218f39d78

    I am not much of a player, but I have a pretty nice collection, but it is mostly Fender based.  Figured I would try a lower end Epi.  I have been shying away from this one because I don't think I like the one piece bridge.  Even some of the cheaper ones have a tune-o-matic.  Then I saw that the Gibson P-90 version is $1,400 and has the same bridge.  I am overly concerned with looks, Thoughts? 

    Angus would approve of the SG... 

    • Upvote 1
  2. 1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

    I should have know.  I thought this was a GAS (Guitar Acquisition Syndrome) thread, but I knew if it were SJ or JGB, it would just be regular gas.  

    I have been considering:

    1_Full_Straight_Front_NA-ec7069218f39d78

    I am not much of a player, but I have a pretty nice collection, but it is mostly Fender based.  Figured I would try a lower end Epi.  I have been shying away from this one because I don't think I like the one piece bridge.  Even some of the cheaper ones have a tune-o-matic.  Then I saw that the Gibson P-90 version is $1,400 and has the same bridge.  I am overly concerned with looks, Thoughts? 

    I'm always wondering when the guitar player I see without a Strat or the bass player I see without a P-Bass will finally see the light.  

  3. 26 minutes ago, David Harris said:

    Peyton Manning won one game his rookie year.  I'll enjoy these reports for sure.  But we'll see 3 years from now.

    True, we have to wait it out to see how things play out, but early on, QB's like Elway, both Mannings etc clearly had the tools while QBs like Sanchez and Sam Darnold clearly had issues.  I think with both Lawrence and Wilson. we will know within three games which of those two groups they will most likely end up in.  Both will make rookie mistakes, but we really will know early on what the future looks like with those two. 

  4. Do it.  Get him.  Pay him.  They need all the protection they can get to keep Pretty Boy Wilson upright and clean.  The entire management structure depends on what Pretty Boy does.  If Wilson flames out, JD is toast and so his is scouting department, his HC and the HC's entire staff.

    You can never have too much quality help on the offensive line circa 2021 especially if a rookie QB's development and career are dependent upon it. 

    Keep Pretty Boy safe and sound. 

    • Upvote 1
    • Thumb Down 3
  5. On 6/5/2021 at 8:14 PM, doitny said:

    and he brought some new friends. Vera Tucker, Michael Carter....and our favorite beer drinking nut....Feeney!!!

    "Pretty Boy" Wilson enjoying himself to the full.  So much for the idea that he would have any issues adjusting to the NYC Metro area.  Looks like he was made for it. 

    Gotta love Pretty Boy Wilson ! 

    • Upvote 1
  6. 3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

    Maybe.  I think the Johnson's have no interest in having to hit the reset button again any time soon.  Even in 3 years, which seems like a while but really isn't for this ownership group, considering how many times they've had to hire a new GM/HC.

    Douglas is the first halfway decent GM we've had since maybe Tannenbaum.  And he's probably better than Tannenbaum, and not by a slim margin either.  They think so much of him that they've basically handed him the keys to the franchise, something they've been unwilling to do with prior GM's.

    I think if the team is competitive but Wilson sucks, Douglas will get another crack with a different QB.  There's not going to be some playoff mandate if the rest of the roster as a whole is moving in the right direction but merely held back by having taken the wrong QB.

    Makes sense... Lets see how things play out.  I'm still suffering the aftershocks of the Jets needlessly missing out on Trevor Lawrence.  I hope Wilson cures me. 

    • Upvote 1
  7. 7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

    I guess it depends on what you mean by "flops." 

    Mark Sanchez sucked and we were one game from the Super Bowl twice.

    I absolutely think we can make the playoffs without Zach Wilson "panning out" so to speak.

    Sancez didnt suck.  He could suck, but he didn't suck all the time.  His problem was always concentration.  He had all the tools.  His head was often not in the game.  Almost like he was someplace else in his mind.  Hence, all the head scratching interceptions and the butt-fumble.  When his head was in the game, he was very good.  Lots of late come backs due to some outstanding QB play.   When there was the more intense level of pressure in the playoffs, it caused Sachez to concentrate more and he played some of his best football.  In short, he didn't suck all together.  He sucked often.

    Sam Darnold did not suck and does not suck. He is a stylist that was never put into an offensive system that would allow him to thrive.  I've outlined that many times here and detailed the type of offence that suits his skill set.

    Wilson is going to be brilliant or he is going to flame out obviously and quickly.

  8. 39 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

    Nick friggin Mullens had success in this system as a rookie, and Garappolo who is very limited has done well. It is a great system for a rookie QB and Zach already played basically the same system in college. It would be shocking for Wilson to not at least be decent even in his first year. He is a far better prospect than Sam, in a dramatically better situation.

    Could be, yes.  I still look at Wilson as a major crap shoot.  

     

     

  9. 16 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

    I actually don't really agree with this. If they successfully build up the team, improve the roster, change the culture, etc. but Wilson is only "okay" they'll get a chance to replace him.

    I don't think so.  If the Douglas regime does not make the playoffs in three years time, they are done.  If Wilson flops, forget about playoffs for the next three years and forget about Douglas. Even if you have an 8-8 team for three years, Douglas will be written off as another "also-ran" Jets coach and run out of town. 

  10. 3 hours ago, OilfieldJet said:

    Bring in a vet and sit Zach the first 8 games. Allow the line to gel. Let him watch. This season isn’t about wins, it’s about building for a run in 2022-23.

    The CS will have to evaluate his ability to start during camp/preseason.  If he looks up to it, he starts.  If he looks shaky, bring in a vet, any vet available and sit Wilson for how ever long he has to sit until he is ready. 

    • Upvote 1
  11. 2 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

    Wilson’s chances of success exponentially better with all the improvements made. A competent OC ( vs. Duggins) in a system that limits Qb reads to a few quick reads, a WR group that provides size, straight  speed and quick twitch off the line and an OL that is strong off the blind side  

    Just a couple of tweaks prior to camp at CB, backup Qb and CB and we should be the best we can actually be by game 1. Whether that translates to wins will be the question 

     

    Agree fully.  CB is the obvious weak spot.  BUT... QB is still the big mystery.   No QB = No Team.  Great QB = Competitive team regardless of a few soft spots in the roster.  With Wilson, I think we'll know rather quickly.  Any new QB will take some time to fully learn the position, but we'll have a lot to go on after a single game.  Either he's going to be fantastic, or he wont be able to play in the NFL.  I don't think there will be lingering questions for very long with this fellow. 

    • Upvote 2
  12. 2 hours ago, Bronx said:

    https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/86731/resetting-the-new-york-jets-roster-two-years-after-the-big-shake-up

    Rich Cimini, ESPN Staff Writer
    FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- The New York Jets have come a long way as an organization. Wrap your brain around this:

    Two years ago this week, Adam Gase was the interim general manager.

    The former coach was handed the title after the firing of GM Mike Maccagnan on May 15, 2019, an abrupt move that plunged the franchise into a state of turmoil. It was bad.

    In some ways, the Jets still are recovering, but they're moving in the right direction. The rebuild started with the hiring of GM Joe Douglas on June 7, 2019, and now they have a new coach (Robert Saleh) and a new quarterback (Zach Wilson).

    Only 14 of the 90 players on the current roster pre-date Douglas' arrival, most notably safety Marcus Maye, defensive tackle Quinnen Williams, linebacker C.J. Mosley and wide receiver Jamison Crowder. The other 10 are marginal starters and backups.

    A stunning transformation.

    To mark the two-year anniversary of The Big Shake-Up, let's take a quick look at the roster.

    QUARTERBACK: Wilson, James Morgan, Mike White

    Douglas inherited Sam Darnold, deciding two years was enough. They haven't revealed their timeline for Wilson, the No. 2 overall pick in the 2021 NFL draft, but know this: If Wilson is healthy, he will be the starter. The only question is the backup plan.

    Neither Morgan nor White has regular-season experience, and it wouldn't be prudent to entrust one of them with the QB2 job. You have to go back to 2013 to find the the last time a team went into Week 1 without a quarterback on the active roster who had played in a game, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. The Buffalo Bills did it with E.J. Manuel and Jeff Tuel. The Jets did it the same season with Geno Smith and Matt Simms. (Mark Sanchez was on the roster, but injured and inactive.)

    Free agent Nick Mullens, along with Chicago Bears backup Nick Foles (who is likely to be released), are options.

    RUNNING BACK: Tevin Coleman, Michael Carter, La'Mical Perine, Ty Johnson, Josh Adams, Austin Walter

    Let's say this: Without Frank Gore, 38, the Jets are a lot younger in the backfield. Coleman has a leg-up because he played in the scheme as a member of the San Francisco 49ers, but the situation screams "running back-by-committee." Carter, their fourth-round pick, will have a chance to show his stuff.

    WIDE RECEIVER: Corey Davis, Crowder, Keelan Cole, Denzel Mims, Elijah Moore, Braxton Berrios, Vyncint Smith, Jeff Smith, Lawrence Cager, Matthew Cole, Josh Malone, D.J. Montgomery, Manasseh Bailey

    This is the most improved position on the team, thanks to the additions of Davis, Cole and Moore. This scheme (a version of the West Coast offense) typically doesn't use four-receiver packages, so it will be interesting to see how the roles are divided. Moore, the Jets' second-round pick, can line up anywhere in the formation, which should allow the coaches to be creative.

    TIGHT END: Chris Herndon, Tyler Kroft, Ryan Griffin, Trevon Wesco, Daniel Brown, Kenny Yeboah

    The Jets are betting on Herndon, hoping his 2020 funk was an aberration. Truth be told, Herndon, one of the Maccagnan holdovers, hasn't been a reliable player since 2018. Griffin, also coming off a lost season, should be better now that he's a year removed from ankle surgery. Wesco will get a look at fullback, although offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur isn't married to a two-back system.

    OFFENSIVE LINE: Mekhi Becton, Alijah Vera-Tucker, Connor McGovern, Greg Van Roten, George Fant, Dan Feeney, Alex Lewis, Chuma Edoga, Cameron Clark, Conor McDermott, Corey Levin, Jimmy Murray, Teton Saltes, Tristen Hoge, Grant Hermanns, Parker Ferguson

    This line is pretty much all Douglas. The only Maccagnan player is Edoga, the Jets' 2019 third-round draft pick who hasn't been good enough to win a starting job. Vera-Tucker, drafted in the first round, should be the Day 1 rookie starter at left guard, creating a potentially formidable left side with him and Becton.

    The most competitive position is right guard, where Van Roten will be challenged by pretty much every guard on the depth chart. Lewis has a steep cap charge ($6.8 million), which could bite him at some point. The 2020 offensive line ranked near the bottom of the league in the key metrics; there's nowhere to go but up.

    DEFENSIVE LINE: Williams, Carl Lawson, Sheldon Rankins, John Franklin-Myers, Vinny Curry, Folorunso Fatukasi, Nathan Shepherd, Jabari Zuniga, Kyle Phillips, Tanzel Smart, Bryce Huff, Jonathan Marshall, Michael Dwumfour, Hamilcar Rashed Jr.

    Saleh's 4-3 system is predicated on the front four generating pressure, which explains why they spent big money on Lawson. Williams and Rankins, another free-agent addition, play the same position (3-technique tackle), but the scheme is built for having two on the field at the same time. Williams is rehabbing from foot surgery, but he's expected for training camp.

    This is a better group than last season, but the fourth starter remains a question mark. You could see a rotation that includes Franklin-Myers and Curry.

    LINEBACKER: C.J. Mosley, Jarrad Davis, Blake Cashman, Jamien Sherwood, Hamsah Nasirildeen, Noah Dawkins, Sharif Finch, Del'Shawn Phillips, Brendon White

    This is probably the weakest area on the team. Mosley returns from his 2020 opt-out, but what kind of player will he be after essentially missing two full seasons? Saleh hasn't settled on Mosley as his middle linebacker -- Davis is an option -- so that's something to watch.

    The Jets believe Davis, a 2017 first-round disappointment with the Detroit Lions, will flourish in their scheme. In the 4-3, it's all about speed and lateral movement. By default, Cashman is the leader for the weak-side spot, but he can't stay healthy. Sherwood, a fifth-round pick, will push for the job.

    CORNERBACK: Blessuan Austin, Bryce Hall, Javelin Guidry, Justin Hardee, Michael Carter II, Jason Pinnock, Brandin Echols, Lamar Jackson, Zane Lewis, Corey Ballentine, Elijah Campbell, Isaiah Dunn

    Everybody wants to know, "Will they sign a veteran? Will it be Richard Sherman?"

    The sense around the team is that Saleh is comfortable with the idea of riding with so many young players. This group has a combined total of 35 career starts. Yeah, that's young. Austin and Hall return as outside starters, with Carter II (fifth-round pick) expected to push Guidry in the slot. This is one area where Douglas has yet to invest significant resources; it could come back to bite the Jets.

    SAFETY: Maye, Lamarcus Joyner, Ashtyn Davis, J.T. Hassell, Bennett Jackson, Jordyn Peters

    The big question here is whether the Jets can get Maye signed to a long-term extension by the July 15 deadline. Don't count on it. He already has signed his franchise-tag tender ($10.6 million), so there's no threat of him boycotting mandatory practices.

    Joyner, a free-agent addition, is the favorite to start opposite Maye. They see him as a post safety whose presence will allow Maye to move around and play strong safety. They have high hopes for Davis, a 2020 third-round pick, but he didn't show enough last season to be handed a starting job. That's one of the reasons why they signed Joyner, a seasoned pro.

    SPECIALISTS: Braden Mann (P), Sam Ficken (K), Thomas Hennessy (LS), Chris Naggar (K)

    Mann and Hennessy are locks. Ficken and Naggar, an undrafted rookie from SMU, will battle for the kicking job. Will the game of musical kickers ever stop?

    Everything and I do mean EVERYTHING hinges on Zac Wilson.  His destiny is now entwined with that of Joe Douglas and Saleh.  If Wilson crashed, do does the Joe Douglas era and subsequently Saleh as well.

    The other pieces of the roster are important of course and Douglas is indeed doing all that can be done to help Wilson succeed, but there is no guarantee that Wilson is going to work out.  

    It it all riding on Wilson.

    • Upvote 2
  13. 3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

    New York Jets all-time 53-man team: From Joe Namath to Wayne Chrebet

     
    New_York_Jets_All_Time_Team.jpg.webp

    The New York Jets are down 20-16. With just 24 ticks remaining on the clock, Joe Namath drops back to pass. Naturally, he first eyes Hall of Fame wide receiver Don Maynard, the man whose numbers might represent the greatest production of any Jet all time.

    Nothing doing. Needing a touchdown to win the content, the defense put one of the two-deep safeties on top of Maynard. He’s doubled in the end zone.

    Knowing the defense, Namath realizes the middle is his best bet—where the fearless roam and earn every penny. Luckily, the slot man (something Namath didn’t experience too much during his day) realizes his quarterback’s in trouble. He breaks off his slant in order to move with a flushing Namath while finding a dead spot in the defense.

    Touchdown. A final score of 23-20 was made possible by a Namath to Wayne Chrebet connection. It was aided by an 11 personnel look that featured Maynard as the Z and Wesley Walker as the X. It was made possible by the imagination of Jets fans everywhere.

    What would a Namath-to-Chrebet connection look like? Better yet, what does an all-time 53-man Jets roster look like?

    Today, Jets X-Factor puts its best foot forward in order to construct the ultimate New York Jets roster.

    Guidelines/Rules:

    • What counts is what the player did for the Jets, not any other NFL franchise. It’s why you won’t see Ronnie Lott, Art Monk, Ed Reed or Michael Vick on the team.
    • Longevity helps, but it’s not a prerequisite. A few NFL seasons are a solid timeframe in sports. Finding a balance between overall impact and longevity is key.
    • The constructed team must be fieldable at each position—in a realistic sense.
    • Each position can carry as many or as few guys as possible, so long as realism is at the forefront.
    • There must be three special teams players involved: one kicker, one punter and either a kick/punt returner, long-snapper or gunner, while relying on the rest of the roster to fill out the rest of the special teams.

    Quarterbacks

    1. Joe Namath
    2. Ken O’Brien
    3. Chad Pennington

    Let’s not get into the whole “overrated Namath” debate. Everybody understands that his statistics leave something to be desired—even when compared to his era alone.

    Namath finished his transformative NFL career with 27,663 passing yards 173 passing touchdowns to an overwhelming 220 interceptions (140 games played). Yes, quarterbacks threw more interceptions in those days. The great Johnny Unitas threw 253 interceptions in 211 games. Terry Bradshaw threw 210 picks in 168 games. But Namath’s interception-per-pass percentage of 5.8 ranks near the top of the all-time list. The only greats with a higher percentage include Sammy Baugh, Sid Luckman, Bobby Layne, George Blanda, Norm Van Brocklin, Bob Waterfield and Ken Stabler.

    So, sure, there’s a case to be made that—through the annals of history—Namath is widely overrated. Then again, some individuals create such an impact that “overrated” has to be part of the discussion.

    Namath belongs in the special class of all-time great football player. Not only was he one of the first true athlete celebrities, but he also changed the course of NFL history. His guarantee and subsequent delivery in Super Bowl 3 was the first in many steps that allowed the modern NFL to take shape.

    Prior to the Jets’ stunning 16-7 victory over the Baltimore Colts, the AFL was considered a laughingstock in most authentic football circles. This nonsensical AFL-NFL World Championship Game was nothing more than an NFL talent showcase. That was largely true, of course, until Namath and the Jets did the unthinkable. A Kansas City Chiefs triumph in Super Bowl 4 allowed the merger to become a reality.

    Joe Namath’s cultural and league importance cannot be matched by anybody. For that reason, he is far and away the Jets’ greatest all-time player.

    The team’s backup is sort of an easy call. While Ken O’Brien could never match Dan Marino stride for stride and did come up with some funky games during the 1986 season—eventually leading to his benching prior to the playoffs—No. 7 put up the statistical numbers that put him in the two-hole.

    O’Brien’s 24,386 passing yards rank him second behind Namath’s 27,057. His 124 passing touchdowns also rank him second in team history behind Namath’s 170.

    The really tough call at quarterback comes at No. 3, and quite honestly, there are four throwers who have a legitimate claim.

    Richard Todd ranks third in passing yards all-time and can also claim two playoff victories. Mark Sanchez leads the organization’s history with four tournament wins. Vinny Testaverde will forever remain a fan favorite, as his 29 touchdowns in 1998 broke a single-season record (later broken by Ryan Fitzpatrick in 2015).

    In the end, we went with Chad Pennington. If not for injuries, who knows what some of those Herm Edwards do with the Marshall product at the helm. Though he never reached the AFC championship game, Pennington played in five playoff games, winning two. As part of the magical 2002 season, No. 10’s rise to stardom was something special.

    Snubs: Richard Todd, Vinny Testaverde, Mark Sanchez

     

    Running Backs

    1. Curtis Martin
    2. Freeman McNeil (3DB)
    3. Emerson Boozer

    Curtis Martin is our workhorse, and there’s no question about it. The Jets’ all-time leading rusher (10,302 yards) also holds the record for most rushing touchdowns (58). Martin is fourth all-time in total touchdowns.

    What Bill Parcells did prior to the 1998 season in acquiring Martin is something no general manager would do in today’s value-driven league. Thanks to today’s non-workhorse flavor, the running back position has gone the rotational route. This wasn’t the case in Martin’s day, and his presence helped lift the Jets to their first-ever AFC East division title in 1998 (first division title in the modern era).

    Freeman McNeil was forced to endure boos and jeers on draft day, but the UCLA product was no bust. His 8,074 rushing yards with the Jets is the only number that’s within shouting distance of Martin.

    McNeil will serve as the perfect third-down back when Martin needs a blow. He’s a weapon on the ground as well as through the air.

    The third back on the roster is Super Bowl champion, Emerson Boozer. His 5,135 career rushing yards with the franchise rank him third all-time, while his 52 rushing touchdowns place him second. Interestingly, Boozer’s 65 total touchdowns place him third all-time behind only Maynard’s 88 and Walker’s 71.

    Snubs: Johnny Hector, John Riggins, Thomas Jones, Bilal Powell, Adrian Murrell

    Fullbacks

    1. Matt Snell
    2. Bill Mathis

    The only man to score a Jets touchdown in the Super Bowl is definitely on this team. Matt Snell, a first-team All-Pro in 1969 and three-time Pro Bowler (or AFL All-Star equivalent), ranks fourth in team history with 4,285 yards.

    A man who’s always forgotten manages to sneak on the team as the fifth running back. Yet, there isn’t a soul in the world who’d argue against Bill Mathis making this team.

    Mathis was this organization’s first true star. For the then-New York Titans in 1961, the old-school player put up 846 yards and seven touchdowns in just 14 games in an All-Pro campaign.

    The competition between Mathis and Richie Anderson was a fierce one, but the old vet and Super Bowl champ prevails. I nearly added Anderson to the roster as a third fullback, while removing one of the three tight ends, but held off. Although Anderson could easily play some tight end, holding three fullbacks is too nutty.

    Snubs: Richie Anderson, Brad Baxter, Tony Richardson

     

    Wide Receivers

    1. Don Maynard (Z)
    2. Wesley Walker (X)
    3. Wayne Chrebet (H-SLOT)
    4. Al Toon
    5. George Sauer

    First, Richie Anderson, now Laveranues Coles—it doesn’t get much tougher than that. Of all the snubs on the list, those are the two that sting the most.

    First, let’s start at the top. Don Mayard is 1B to Namath’s 1A in Jets history. The southern gentleman from Crosbyton, TX is one of just five “full-time” Jets Hall of Famers (Namath, Martin, Winston Hill and Kevin Mawae). His 11,732 receiving yards obviously put him atop the Jets all-time list, but it also places him 30th in league history (still, after all these years of pass-happy rule changes).

    Maynard was the first to ever reach 10,000 receiving yards and retired as the league’s all-time leading receiver until Charlie Joiner passed him in 1986. His 88 touchdowns still stand as the most in Jets history, as do his 627 receptions.

    While Maynard is a breeze at Z, Wesley Walker is just as easy at X. The Cyclops, as he was commonly called, thanks to being legally blind in his left eye, ranks second in team history in receiving yards (8,306) and touchdowns (71).

    After the top two is when it becomes tough. But no matter which direction one chooses, the slot-man is easy to spot.

    Wayne Chrebet takes the No. 3 spot and will play the slot in 11 personnel. The man who ranks second in franchise history with 580 receptions and who had more receptions than anybody over his first two seasons in the league, brings with him a story that’s impossible to beat.

    The long-shot from Hofstra walked on with the Jets during the Summer of 1995 and never looked back. Tough as nails, Chrebet connected with the fanbase unlike anybody prior or since. His workmanlike, blue-collar, underdog-type effort is what has everybody still experiencing a sea of No. 80 jerseys at MetLife Stadium.

    As it relates to Al Toon, “what if?” comes to mind. If not for injuries, what if? Toon might be the most talented player on this roster. He just couldn’t get it done in the most important area in football: availability. Nonetheless, Toon still ranks fourth in receiving yards (6,605) and third in receptions (517).

    When a tiebreaker is needed, the team’s sole championship usually did the talking. It’s probably why George Sauer snagged the final spot. Although he trails Coles by nearly 1,000 yards in the receiving department, Sauer played just six seasons, earning Pro Bowl nods in four and All-Pro selections in two.

    Keyshawn Johnson was another tough cut, but his four years, while impactful, don’t add up to Coles’s production, even. For instance, Coles’s top-two receiving seasons beat out Johnson’s with the Jets.

    The other interesting candidates are Brandon Marshall, the Jets’ single-season receiving yards record holder, and a couple of old-timers in Art Powell and Blake Turner, who both didn’t play long enough with the franchise. Incredibly, Powell put up a 1960 season (the franchise’s first) worth 1,167 yards and 14 touchdowns (tied for the single-season record with Marshall and Maynard). And he did it in just 14 games.

    Snubs: Laveranues Coles, Keyshawn Johnson, Jerricho Cotchery, Art Powell, Blake Turner, Rob Moore, Brandon Marshall

    Tight Ends

    1. Mickey Shuler
    2. Rich Caster
    3. Jerome Barkum

    Tight end isn’t a strong position for the Jets historically. Mickey Shuler is the unchallenged starter, a man who worked so well with O’Brien and those high-flying 1980s offenses.

    Rich Caster and Jerome Barkum, two guys who played a good chunk of their careers together, round out the position. Barkum, a lighter tight end who weighed under 220 pounds, often played wide receiver, which is one of the reasons we felt comfortable rolling with just five wideouts.

    Snubs: Pete Lammons, Dustin Keller, Johnny Mitchell

     

    Tackles

    1. Winston Hill (LT)
    2. Marvin Powell (RT)
    3. D’Brickashaw Ferguson

    Offensive tackle is as cut and dry as any position on the list. New-school Jets fans may yell at D’Brickashaw Ferguson’s reserve status, while old-school fans understand.

    Marvin Powell’s career is still debated among Jets fan circles. Many believe he was as overrated a tackle as any. Others look at the three first-team All-Pro nods and five Pro Bowl selections and understand. Besides, Powell played right tackle, the position we needed opposite Hall of Famer Winston Hill.

    Obviously, Brick shouldn’t be slept on. Although he qualified for just three Pro Bowls, the man never missed a snap. If not for a fluky end-of-season desperation shot at the end of the disappointing 2008 season, Ferguson plays every snap for the green and white.

    Snubs: Sherman Plunkett

    Guards

    1. Randy Rasmussen (LG)
    2. Dave Herman (RG)
    3. Jim Sweeney

    While not as decorated as the tackle group, the Jets’ guard situation is another healthy-looking position room. Both Randy Rasmussen and Dave Herman blocked for the team’s lone Super Bowl champions, and Jim Sweeney was a constant presence for 11 long years.

    An argument could be made for old-timer Bob Mischak. Although he played just three seasons for the organization (1960-62), he made two Pro Bowls (AFL All-Star teams) and two first-team All-Pro squads.

    Big Brandon Moore, a one-time Pro-Bowler himself, also garnered serious consideration for the third spot.

    Snubs: Bob Mischak, Brandon Moore, Alan Faneca

     

    Centers

    1. Nick Mangold
    2. Kevin Mawae
    3. Joe Fields

    In the end, we went with three centers in order to get the offensive line number up to nine. Nick Mangold and Kevin Mawae are unquestioned.

    Mangold’s interesting blend of bubbly personality off the field and nasty demeanor on it paved the way for Rex Ryan’s memorable run. As to who starts, it’s honestly a flip of a coin. Mangold’s accolades include seven Pro Bowls and two first-team All-Pros. Mawae, a now-Hall of Famer, made six Pro Bowls and received two first-team All-Pros while with the Jets.

    What decided the starting gig was other clothing. Although Mawae is certainly considered a Jet, he did start in Seattle before Bill Parcells smartly snagged him. He then finished in Tennessee after playing eight years in New Jersey. Mangold, on the other hand, played all of his 11 years with the Jets.

    Mangold gets the start, but if the offense wants to get the screen-game going or start to attack the defense east-west with a pulling center leading the way, Mawae will jump in there. Besides, there’s no question that an attempt to start Mawae at one of the guard spots will be made in training camp.

    From 1975 through the 1987 season, Joe Fields held down the center position. He was at his best in the early 1980s when the New York Sack Exchange was doing its thing and the Jets were shocking teams en route to the 1982 AFC championship game.

    Snubs: N/A

    Interior D-Linemen

    1. Joe Klecko (3-TECH)
    2. Marty Lyons (1-TECH)
    3. John Elliott
    4. Jason Ferguson

    From offensive line to defensive line, Jets history is stacked with quality football players that made their living in the muddy trenches. Playing a 4-3, what the 2021 Jets will feature and what the Super Bowl team did as well, Hall of Fame snub Joe Klecko starts at the 3-technique.

    No Jet has been hurt by the sack department more than Klecko. A Pro-Bowler at three different positions (defensive tackle, defensive end and nose tackle), Klecko’s official sack tally reads 24. In reality, Klecko sacked the quarterback an unofficial 77.5 times. This number would rank him first on the official Jets sack list. Yet, it would most likely second behind the sack numbers that would be tacked onto Mark Gastineau’s 74 official sacks. Klecko’s unofficial sack number includes his monster 1981 season that saw him get to the quarterback 20.5 times.

    That year is when the New York Sack Exchange took shape with Klecko leading the way. He was the third man to have his number retired by the team (Namath and Maynard) and remains one of the most beloved players in franchise history.

    The man who did a lot of the dirty work (alongside Abdul Salaam, who’s a hard-luck cut on this roster), Marty Lyons, will start at the 1-tech. Interestingly, Lyons wasn’t that big of a player. Clocking in around 269, Lyons played both inside and outside, similar to Klecko.

    Starting two “lighter” defensive tackles means we need a big guy in the rotation, and luckily for us, the options are plentiful. Sione Pouha, Damon Harrison and Kris Jenkins are all viable if not overly-deserving options. But a Parcells favorite, Jason Ferguson, gets the nod as our must-have 300+ pound big heavy. Ferguson simply ate up rushing attacks in the late 1990s and did so while following the Big Tuna to Dallas and then Miami.

    With Ferguson snagging the fourth spot, unheralded defensive tackle (another lighter tackle) John Elliott rounds out the group. This three-time Pro-Bowler (three-time AFL All-Star), one-time first-team All-Pro member and Super Bowl champion is yet another guy who can play inside and out.

    Snubs: Sione Pouha, Abdul Salaam, Muhammad Wilkerson, Damon Harrison, Kris Jenkins

     

    EDGE

    1. Mark Gastineau
    2. Gerry Philbin
    3. John Abraham
    4. Shaun Ellis
    5. Verlon Biggs

    With five edge players, the Jets’ all-time team is coming to the party with nine defensive linemen and a lot of versatility. Three of the four defensive tackles can also play outside, while Shaun Ellis can kick inside anytime he’s asked.

    Ellis compiled 72 sacks over the course of his 11-year Jets career. As one of the four first-round picks in 2000, Ellis was a steady hand for the organization over the course of four coaching regimes.

    Obviously, Mark Gastineau is our top dog here. His ridiculous and NFL record-breaking 1984 season that saw him put up 22 sacks complemented his 19-sack 1983 campaign. It made him a household name and a man other teams and other teams’ fans loved to hate.

    The competition at No. 2 is fierce here. Should it be Gerry Philbin, the Super Bowl champ whose sack number remains unknown? Or should it be John Abraham, the last dominant edge rusher the Jets have employed? Abraham’s 53.5 sacks rank him this in Jets history, but his injury worries oftentimes frustrated fans. Meanwhile, Philbin racked up an unofficial 19 sacks during the Jets’ championship 1968 season and qualified for two-straight first-team All-Pros (1968 and 1969).

    Philbin’s championship experience gives him the starting nod, but Abraham will play just as much, especially in the sub-package.

    Lastly, some Jets fans might recoil or squint at the fifth man in the mix here, but he’s deserving of a spot, nonetheless. Verlon Biggs is a man who felt disrespected by the Jets organization following their Super Bowl win. It ultimately led to his final four NFL seasons coming in Washington.

    But make no mistake: Biggs was a dominant defensive lineman. He was a three-time AFL All-Star with the Jets, a Super Bowl champion, and he also became a key component to Washington’s Over The Hill Gang in the early 1970s.

    Snubbing both Dennis Byrd and Calvin Pace was a tough decision. Pace’s sneaky 46 sacks rank him fifth on the Jets all-time leaderboard.

    Snubs: Dennis Byrd, Calvin Pace, Marvin Washington, Jeff Lageman, Bryan Thomas, Hugh Douglas

    Linebackers

    1. Larry Grantham (SAM)
    2. Mo Lewis (WILL)
    3. Al Atkinson (MIKE)
    4. Kyle Clifton
    5. David Harris
    6. Greg Buttle

    New York’s history is loaded at linebacker. First and foremost, Larry Grantham is the top dog yet is oftentimes disrespected. When the Jets asked the fans to vote on the all-time starting team last year, Grantham was nowhere to be found. In the Jets X-Factor world, that’s a football sin.

    The five-time Pro-Bowler (AFL All-Star) and five-time All-Pro started his NFL career when the Jets commenced their existence. He was there from the start and it ultimately paid off in the form of a championship.

    Versatile Mo Lewis, who can also drop down on the edge for us, gets the nod at WILL. Fourth all-time in sacks (52.5) and second all-time in tackles (1,011), Lewis remains a fan-favorite today.

    One of the leaders of the Super Bowl 3 team, Al Atkinson, will man down the MIKE. The starting MIKE job came down to Atkinson and another fan-favorite in David Harris, but the former barely edged him out.

    The final two spots belong to old-timer Greg Buttle, Mr. Jet himself, and special teams maniac Kyle Clifton, whose 1,468 solo tackles ranks No. 1 in team history.

    Snubs: Marvin Jones, Lance Mehl, Ralph Baker

     

    Cornerbacks

    1. Darrelle Revis
    2. Aaron Glenn
    3. Bobby Jackson (SLOT)
    4. James Hasty
    5. Antonio Cromartie

    Here comes the challenging part of the roster: the defensive backs. Unfortunately, Jets history isn’t littered with great cornerbacks and safeties. So, while it’s tempting to limit the numbers, keeping the numbers at five apiece is fair.

    There’s really no need to dig into Darrelle Revis’s career. He’s a sure-fire Pro Football Hall of Fame player and might go down as the most dominant cover-corner in NFL history (this side of Deion Sanders). No cornerback in NFL history will ever match what Revis did between 2008 and 2011.

    Aaron Glenn’s No. 2 status is as safe as any position on the roster, but then it’s time to dig deep. Who in the world should be the third corner, a slot corner, no less?

    Ray Mickens was tempting, as we watched his under-the-radar brilliance often during the Parcells, Al Groh and Herm Edwards years. Glenn has the skill set to play slot, but who would start opposite Revis on the outside? James Hasty, maybe?

    We went with Bobby Jackson. A sixth-round pick in 1978, Jackson immediately started and made a significant impact, intercepting five passes. He then followed that All-NFL Rookie Team campaign up with four picks in 1979. Though there wasn’t much slot to be played back then, his 5-foot-9 frame and shifty intangibles should allow him to be our nickel back.

    Hardnosed James Hasty fills in the fourth spot while ultra-talented Antonio Cromartie rounds out the group. A serious battle between Cromartie and Johnny Sample existed, but the former enjoyed a longer, more impactful Jets career and can do so many more things for this team (kick return duties included).

    Snubs: Johnny Sample, Randy Beverly, Dick Felt, Ray Mickens (Slot)

    Safeties

    1. Jamal Adams (SS)
    2. Bill Baird (FS)
    3. Victor Green
    4. Dainard Paulson
    5. Erik McMillan

    Is it actually possible to call Jamal Adams the greatest Jets safety of all time? Yeah, I think it is.

    Most Jets fans won’t want to see this—as the sting of his 2020 offseason actions was too much—but the impact he delivered in just three seasons surpasses anything any other Jets safety has done. Only two Jets’ defensive backs have ever been named a first-team All-Pro. One is named Revis, who accomplished that feat three times. The other is Jamal Adams.

    New-school fans would probably want to see Victor Green start at the other safety spot, but Green and Adams together is a complete no-no. Those are two box safeties who prefer mucking it up in the box over taking single-high duties.

    Super Bowl champ Bill Baird will man down the free safety spot with his franchise-record 34 interceptions. Yes, as previously written, interceptions were more common back in those days, but 34 is quite impressive, nonetheless.

    A guy who played with Baird, Dainard Paulson, is the fourth safety. Paulson’s 29 Jets interceptions place him second all-time, four ahead of Revis and five clear of Green.

    Two-time Pro-Bowler Erik McMillan rounds out the safety room.

    Snubs: Brian Washington, Burgess Owens, Darrol Ray, Ken Schroy

    Special Teams

    • Pat Leahy (K)
    • Curley Johnson (P)
    • Leon Washington (KR/PR)

    In sticking to the guidelines, we must roll with three special teams players. So far, we presented a balanced look: 25 offensive players and 25 on the defensive side. Here, the third special teams guy can come in any form.

    How it could be anybody other than Leon Washington? Sure, Bruce Harper has a legitimate claim. Brad Smith does as well. James Dearth does also—if the long-snapper route is taken.

    It’s Washington in the end for a couple of reasons. Firstly, we’ll get one of the tight ends or offensive lineman to snap the ball. It’s not as easy as one would think, but we’ll return to the old school for our long-snapper. In terms of a gunner, we’re covered with backup corners and receivers. Sauer, Hasty and Cromartie can easily get the job done, as will Clifton and Buttle when running kickoffs down in a maniacal fashion.

    More importantly, Washington is one of the best return men in NFL history. The man snagged first-team All-Pro honors in 2008 when he racked up a league-leading 2,332 all-purpose yards, sported a 25.6 kickoff return average, and took one back to the house. And this season was off the heels of a 2007 campaign that saw him take three kickoff returns for touchdowns.

    The kicking job came down to two guys, Pat Leahy and Jim Turner. Considering Pat Leahy is the organization’s all-time leading scorer by a wide margin (1,470 points to Nick Folk’s 729), he gets the nod.

    Turner’s Super Bowl-winning teammate, Curley Johnson, barely edges out Tom Tupa for the punting job.

    Snubs: Jim Turner (K), Tom Tupa (P), Bruce Harper (KRPR), Brad Smith (KR), James Dearth (LS), Tanner Purdum (LS), JoJo Townsell (KR), Justin Miller (KR)

     

    Coaching Staff

    • Weeb Ewbank (HC)
    • Joe Walton (OC)
    • Rex Ryan (DC)
    • Mike Westhoff (STC)
    • Walt Michaels (Assistant HC)

    There’s no question who’s coaching this team. It’s Weeb Ewbank, without discussion or hesitation. Sure, having Bill Parcells run the sideline is any football fan’s dream, but his short three-year tenure that ended in Bill Belichick’s frightening reign of terror in New England sort of dampers the mood for tuna.

    Finding an offensive coach for the offensive coordinator job was a tough chore, as most of the Jets’ best coaches have been defensive-minded guys. Walton’s offense oftentimes underwhelmed, but he’s the de facto offensive play-caller.

    Rex Ryan as the defensive coordinator is a no-brainer. Let him do his thing from the 4-3 (sorry, Rex, not a 3-4 with this squad) with Walt Michaels over his shoulder.

    Lastly, there’s no better special teams coach than Mike Westhoff. There’s also no better personality (pop in the 2010 Hard Knocks tape). From 2001 through the 2012 season, Westhoff brilliantly coached the franchise’s special teams units.

    Front Office

    • Bill Parcells (GM and President)
    • Jim Kensil (Assistant GM and Vice President)
    • Mike Tannenbaum (Salary-Cap Specialist)
    • Eric Mangini (VP of Player Personnel)

    Based on the Jets’ front office history, allowing Parcells to run the show makes the most sense. Who is that great general manager who deserves the job? Ewbank controlled personnel during the golden era. Dick Steinberg in the early 1990s and Dick Haley a little later don’t exactly inspire the masses. Neither does Terry Bradway, a man who inherited Parcells’s roster and didn’t do much with it.

    It has to be Parcells. Jim Kensil can help in the front office as another suit, while Mike Tannenbaum helps on the financial side of things. One of the greatest Jets’ mysteries of all time is Mikey T., a man whose decisions with Eric Mangini were brilliant yet dumbfounding when Rex entered the building. For that, Mangini is tagged with the VP of Player Personnel.

    We could have gone the Bill Belichick route as defensive coordinator but decided to stay away.

    New York Jets All-Time Team At A Glance

    • QB: Joe Namath, Ken O’Brien, Chad Pennington
    • RB: Curtis Martin, Freeman McNeil (3DB), Emerson Boozer
    • FB: Matt Snell, Bill Mathis
    • WR: Don Maynard (Z), Wesley Walker (X), Wayne Chrebet (H-SLOT), Al Toon, George Sauer
    • TE: Mickey Shuler, Rich Caster, Jerome Barkum
    • T: Winston Hill (LT), Marvin Powell (RT), D’Brickashaw Ferguson
    • G: Randy Rasmussen (LG), Dave Herman (RG), Jim Sweeney
    • 😄 Nick Mangold, Kevin Mawae, Joe Fields
    • DT: Joe Klecko (3-TECH), Marty Lyons (1-TECH), John Elliott, Jason Ferguson
    • EDGE: Mark Gastineau, Gerry Philbin, John Abraham, Shaun Ellis, Verlon Biggs
    • LB: Larry Grantham (SAM), Mo Lewis (WILL), Al Atkinson (MIKE), Kyle Clifton, David Harris, Greg Buttle
    • CB: Darrelle Revis, Aaron Glenn, Bobby Jackson (SLOT), James Hasty, Antonio Cromartie
    • S: Jamal Adams (SS), Bill Baird (FS), Victor Green, Dainard Paulson, Erik McMillan
    • ST: Pat Leahy (K), Curley Johnson (P), Leon Washington (KR)
     

    How do you leave out Dan Alexander as interior lineman ??? Was B+ to A- every single game with both pass blocking and run blocking for 13 years and only missed one game his entire career.  

    You cant find too many Jets at any position that contributed as much or was as dependable. 

    • Upvote 2
    • Post of the Week 1
  14. 10 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

    The post I was quoting stated "body is more NFl ready". That's why I asked. I don't know if any pundits talked about Lawrence physique at all, but I didn't hear it.  Wilson, at least around here, definitely had "durability concerns", comments about his size, frame etc.

    I think the talk of durability issues with Wilson stems from the shoulder injury he had.  The labrum on his trowing shoulder required surgery.  The word is he had that injury since high school and he finally decided to get surgery on it in 2019.  Seems to be just fine now. He did his best work at BYU after the surgery.  Wilson is also built like a tank from the waist down.  

    The Jets brass also seem to be taking his protection seriously as they added a prime piece to the offensive line with their second overall pick in this past draft. 

  15. 4 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

    Yes. Elongated throwing motion that requires space in order to create torque for accurate throws. When that space compresses he skies balls and loses accuracy. He faced little pressure over 3 years and unlike Wilson or Fields his performance under pressure is drastically different than his performance in clean pockets.

    Could very well be.  Not like Lawrence has a wind-up like Tim Tebow, but he does have a longer throwing motion than you would like to see.   Wilson has a super compact, super quick delivery.  He also seems to be able to throw the ball accurately from just about any position or any condition.  There is also a lot more examples on tape of Wilson hitting covered receives vs. what the tape there is on Lawrence.

    If Wilson can do in the NFL what he did in college, he will be a very exciting player. 

    • Upvote 2
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