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THE BARON

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Posts posted by THE BARON

  1. On 7/3/2021 at 9:18 AM, slats said:

    From the article: “Yates notes that there’s a similar situation playing out with New York Jets’ No. 2 pick Zach Wilson. Both should resolve themselves, but it may be ‘closer to training camp,’ which opens later this month.”

    This is normal. It’s a matter of how hardass the teams want to be vs. their willingness to let their rookie starting QBs sit out any of training camp. It doesn’t hurt anyone to dig in at this time as long as they’re able to be flexible when push comes to shove. If the Jets and Jags believe that these guys are their FQBs, they should just dump the offset language, imho. They’ll talk about about setting bad precedents, but that really shouldn’t be an issue with the first or second pick in the draft that you’re hoping/expecting these QBs to keep you from drafting again during their careers. 

    Joe Douglas is not going to make any final decisions on Zach Wilson until he sees just how good his Mom looks in a Macarana line... 

  2. 3 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

    Jeff George had a prototypical delivery and a cannon for an arm and could not play the position.  Rivers throws like a shot putter and had a great career.  There are numerous variables that go into QB success and many of them are not physical and are not evident after one start or a season - or sometimes two seasons - intelligence and decision making, heart and courage, ability to deal with adversity, ability to perform under pressure (not pass rush pressure - game situation pressure), leadership etc.  

    Yep.  Agree fully. 

  3. 1 minute ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

    Fair enough Carnac the Magnificent. I'll take out "end of discussion, " but your participation trophy point is still nonsensical as is your contention that you can tell if a QB will not pan out based on his first start.  There are just too many variables - play calling, protection, game script, surrounding talent, skill player performance, etc.  I still  claim you can't tell much of anything from the first start, let alone 3-4 starts, or the entire rookie season.  And years of performances and facts bear that out.  So proclaim away, and award yourself your "scout of the year" trophy in advance of the September 12 Carolina game.  I know I am on the edge of my seat for your decision on Wilson's career based on his first 25-30 passes.  

    All good points.  Well taken. Never any need to take my ribbing seriously.  I'm just being a weeny.  I will have my crystal ball out for both Wilson and Trevor Lawrence's first starts and I will post my findings.   

    On another note.  I was totally flamed that the Jets blew their shot at TL and had torched a bunch of my Jets stuff in my fire pit.  I'm not so sure now that the Jets settled for who will be the second best QB in the draft.  I *REALLY* like Wilson's delivery.  He may have the fastest release in the league.  He is also massively powerful below the waist and he puts that to good use.  From the highlights I have seen, he looks over the entire field very quickly before making a throw.  I see one and only one possible deficiency.  He has a relatively low release point.  That should not be much of a problem due to his mobility, field vision and amazingly fast throwing motion.  Compared to Wilson, Lawrence throws like a mummy. 

  4. 21 hours ago, JiFapono said:

    Crazy that BB got rid of him.  He's basically Wes Welker all over again.

    Welker had natural stick-um on his hands especially in critical times.  Berrios is not sure handed like Welker.  Not even close.  Berrios runs precise, crisp routs, but his hands are questionable. 

    • Upvote 1
  5. 3 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

    This post makes no sense whatsoever.  It has absolutely nothing to do with my contention that you can't predict a QBs career success or failure based on his first game.  What that has to do with your participation trophy is baffling.  Good try though. 

    Part of your previous statement is true and part is not.  While you can't be sure if a given QB will be ultimately successful after one game... *I* CAN BE SURE if a given QB will NEVER pan out after only one game *IF* I see certain things that QB does or does not.  True, a rookie will be a rookie and learning the position takes time to master, but there are things you may see in a first outing that indicate your shiny new QB is *NEVER* going to make it.

    If you end your comment with "END OF DISCUSSION", it is there that you have officially awarded yourself a participation trophy.  It's only the end of the discussion within your limitations.  Not mine. 

    Ya dig ? 

  6. 18 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

    On the other side there are innumerable  players who looked great in game1/year 1 and went on to stink - RGIII, Browning Nagle, Glenn Foley.  Just like scouts can't tell if a player will be successful from watching years of college tape, neither you nor anyone else can tell squat from one game. Period. End of discussion.  

    Here we have yet another individual running away with a self awarded participation trophy.  Well done, Ace.  You'll always be a winner in my book.  

     

    6uohbsD.jpeg

  7. 2 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

    I call BS in a big way.  Many great QBs had horrible first games.  The commentary below is from the great Gil Brandt, who I trust more than some guy on an internet team forum. 

    Troy Aikman

    Drafted: No. 1 overall by the Dallas Cowboys in 1989.

    First start: Loss (28-0) to the Saints in Week 1 of 1989; 17 of 35 (48.6 percent) for 180 yards, zero touchdowns, two interceptions, two sacks and a passer rating of 40.2.

    Aikman  finished his first season -- which was interrupted by a broken finger that cost him five games -- with nine touchdowns against 18 interceptions while averaging just 5.9 yards per pass. Those are not very good numbers. In fact, it wasn't until his third year in the NFL that he managed to throw more touchdowns (11) than picks (10).

     

    John Elway

    Drafted: No. 1 overall by the Baltimore Colts in 1983 (traded to Denver Broncos).

    First start: Win (14-10) over the Steelers in Week 1 of 1983; 1 of 8 (12.5 percent) for 14 yards, zero touchdowns, one interception, four sacks and a passer rating of 0.

    Elway's debut was marred by an elbow injury that forced him out of the game, but his second start (9 of 21 for 106 yards, zero touchdowns and three sacks) wasn't much better. He went on to have a relatively rough rookie season -- 7:14 TD-to-INT ratio and 28 sacks in 11 games -- in which he was benched after three consecutive losses.

    Andrew Luck

    Drafted: No. 1 overall by the Indianapolis Colts in 2012.

    First start: Loss (41-21) to the Bears in Week 1 of 2012; 23 of 45 (51.1 percent) for 309 yards, one touchdown, three interceptions, three sacks and a passer rating of 52.9.

    Luck struggled some initially with the speed of the game and maybe tried to force the ball more than he should have. 

    Peyton Manning

    Drafted: No. 1 overall by the Indianapolis Colts in 1998.

    First start: Loss (24-15) to the Dolphins in Week 1 of 1998; 21 of 37 (56.8 percent) for 302 yards, one touchdown, three interceptions, four sacks and a passer rating of 58.6.

    Manning has, of course, become one of the premier quarterbacks in the game, earning 13 Pro Bowl nods and five MVP awards in 14 years with the Colts and two-plus years with the Denver Broncos. And though he set what was then a rookie record with 3,739 yards, he also went 3-13 in his first year with Indy -- and believe me when I tell you that a lot of people were asking whether he was good enough to hack it. In fact, after a less-than-stellar performance in a Week 5 victory over Ryan Leaf's Chargers that season, there were even some folks hollering that Indy should've taken Leaf instead of Manning with the first overall pick in the 1998 NFL Draft. 

    That Manning -- who was very well coached at Tennessee and has such a great understanding of the game -- stumbled out of the gate like that just illustrates how hard it is to start right away as a rookie, especially with the competitive balance being so great in the NFL. 

    Alex Smith

    Drafted: No. 1 overall by the San Francisco 49ers in 2005.

    First start: Loss (28-3) to the Colts in Week 5 of 2005; 9 of 23 (39.1 percent) for 74 yards, zero touchdowns, four interceptions, five sacks and a passer rating of 8.5.

    Smith is very smart, but it took time for that to translate to the NFL gridiron. He had a horrifically bad rookie year, taking 29 sacks and throwing 11 picks in just nine games (seven starts) while posting a sub-40 passer rating four times. Smith didn't find the end zone until the final game of the season, a 20-17 win over Houston. He seemed reluctant to throw downfield and didn't break out of checkdown mode for years.

    It wasn't that Smith, who was neck and neck with Aaron Rodgers in my pre-draft scouting as a prospect, lacked talent. I think a key factor was that he just didn't get as lucky as other guys did in terms of the kind of coaching he received as a rookie. When Jim Harbaugharrived in 2011, he turned Smith into a good quarterback, and the signal-caller has continued to thrive with the Chiefs under Andy Reid. Just look at his numbers since '11: 38-15-1 record with a TD-to-INT ratio of 71:23.

    Fran Tarkenton

    Drafted: No. 29 overall (third round) by the Minnesota Vikings in 1961.

    First start: Loss (21-7) to the Cowboys in Week 2 of 1961; 8 of 24 (33.3 percent) for 117 yards, zero touchdowns, two interceptions, three sacks and a passer rating of 15.5.

    Tarkenton's first official start paled in comparison to what he accomplished in his true debut the week before, when he came off the bench to complete 74 percent of his passes for 250 yards and contribute five touchdowns (four in the air and one on the ground) to a 37-13 win over the Bears -- the first ever victory for the Vikings franchise. The rest of his season was a bit rockier, as he went 2-8 in 10 starts while posting a TD-to-INT ratio of 18:17 over 14 games. He had mixed results over the next few years before being traded to the Giants in 1967. This, he recently told me in a conversation on the phone, is when he turned his career around, installing the offense himself and calling the plays in New York as a 27-year-old quarterback; he credits himself as being the person most responsible for his ascension.

    Steve Young

    Drafted: No. 1 by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the 1984 supplemental draft.

    First start: Win (19-16, OT) over the Lions in Week 12 of 1985; 16 of 27 (59.3 percent) for 167 yards, zero touchdowns, zero interceptions, six sacks and a passer rating of 77.2; 10 carries for 60 yards.

    Young wasn't exactly a rookie when he entered the NFL, having spent two years with the Los Angeles Express of the USFL before going to Tampa Bay. Perhaps Young became used to the lesser competition he saw in his first pro league, because he struggled with the Bucs, compiling a record of 3-16 as a starter while throwing nearly twice as many interceptions (21) as he did touchdown passes (11). Tampa Bay shipped him to San Francisco for a second- and a fourth-round pick in 1987 -- laying the groundwork for his career to take off into the stratosphere. 

     

     

     

    Calling "BS" is an indictment of your limited powers of observation and reasoning.  :-) :-) :-) 

  8. 1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

    lmfao - the response to this is unreal.  She's full on taking advantage of her sons fame to in turn become famous and posting stupid sh*t to get attention, the idea she wont do one of the selfie videos about her son and the NFL, is just unbelievable denial.  

    I don't think that is the case.  Seems she's always been the same person.  What has changed is that her son is now a NY Jet QB and the powerful NY media has their proverbial microscope on her. 

    • Upvote 2
  9. 11 hours ago, JetBlue said:

    Wow, you must be really special to make that judgement from someone having a good time at a wedding party.  It is not like she posted the video herself.  People are allowed to enjoy themselves even if they have famous children.  

    I'm sure Zack could give sh*t, he has more important things to focus on.  His mother is a person in her own right and entitled to live her life the way she chooses.  Nothing to see here, lets just move on.  

    Agree.  None of the videos or stories are mean spirited or destructive in any way.  Most find it entertaining.  It adds to the Jets/Sports spectacle.  Pro sports are about entertainment and fun.  It's not just the purity of the sport that many tune in for.  I like some human interest and fun stuff too.  It is why I loved the Rex era so much.  Non stop entertainment.   If Zach's mom is fun and remains visible,  it is a good part of the Jets mix as long as none of it is mean spirited. 

    • Upvote 2
  10. 3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

    Who cares, Nagle had a bigger arm.  And sucked.  Lots of QBs have the tools a and fail.  Your own example, you thought Allen would fail.  He has an Elway like arm and can run.  

    I could care less about assessments about QBs after week 1.  Means nothing.  Other than the pick 6, Darnold had a really good first game.  

    Don't miss out.... Tune in for commentary and prognostication that you will find nowhere else.  SAME BAT TIME.  SAME BAT CHANNEL. 

    • Haha 1
  11. 2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

    Elway looked like garbage and Peyton threw most of his passes in the backfield. 

    As I said most QBs fail, seeing a QB like B Quinn, who everyone thought would sucks actually suck in week one isnt a surprise.  Same with Haskins.  Two terrible examples because they were predicted to fail.  

    Elway had amazing mobility and a strong arm.  Peyton was not in synch, but the arm talent was there.  I dont agree with what you saw.   Another example close to home was Kellen Clemmens.  I knew he was going to suck after 1 game as a starter.  

    But that is the past.  

    Tune in when I give my assessment of Wilson and Lawrence after their first starts.  

    I will tell you, here in this very forum... If both of those respective QB's have a shot at becoming productive NFL QB's after one start.  That's right.  I'll be able to tell if either one will suck for ever and ever after just one start. 

     

    • Haha 1
  12. 16 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

    And?

    Peyton Manning threw 3 picks in week 1.

    Elway was 5-16, 49yards and on his way to a benching.  

    While a scrub like Nagle has a big day.

    I can keep going.

    Probably 85% of all QBs never pan out.  You weren't on to something

     

    Elway and Manning both looked very promising in their debut performance despite the numbers.  They passed the eye test.  You could clearly see the toolbox.  It was obvious. 

    I watch ND college football and I thought that Brady Quinn and Jimmy Clausen had a shot at being pro QB's.   UNTIL I saw their debut games.  Quinn looked like a robot and Clausen was clearly strained.  I knew after their first regular season games that they would not pan out.  Same deal with Dwayne Haskins.  I thought he'd be good as pro until I saw his debut.

    The only QB that I thought would SUCK after his first game that wound up improving was Josh Allen. 

    • Haha 1
  13. 3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

    Yeah, no

    Just about every QB will have a "hopeless" type game.  Its not over after week 1, come on.

    And set back 4 years no less.  

    I watch the first Regular season game that Josh Rosen played in.  I knew he was never going to pan out as a starter after that game.  I thought the same for a handful of other QB's their first time out.  And I had it right each time.  

  14. 12 minutes ago, jgb said:

    Jets fans are the most patient fans on Earth. For most of us our best Jets memory is hearing our dads or grandads talk about Joe Willie.

    My grandfather saw them at the Polo Grounds in 1963 and became a fan.  My father had season tickets since 1976 and took me to my first Jet's game in 1980 when I finally showed interest in going to a football game.  I was 13 y/o then. They beat the Houston Oilers with Kenny The "Snake" Stabler in OT.  I took over the season tickets in 2005 and dropped them in 2014.  

    • Sad 1
  15. 1 hour ago, Claymation said:

    But it is the 1st game of his career, I understand people are impatient and want immediate results but call him a bust after 1 game is premature. But then again people are down on Becton because he had a minor condition in minicamp. So that would be par for the course as a Jets fan.

    Agree with your point 100 %.  Still.  I think we will see a lot of clues early on to suggest if Wilson is a rookie with potential or a rookie that shows nothing.  For example.  If you watch the few first games with Josh Rosen you'll see clues that he is going to be a total wash out.  If you watch the early games with Baker Mayfield and or Sam Darnold, you'll see a rookie for sure, but you'll see a lot of potential.  Obviously, Darnold's story is not over yet.  He may just pan out of continue to falter, but at least in Darnold early on you could see some tools vs. Rosen who could do very little to impress at any time.

    Let's hope Wilson's early play point to a bright future. There will be a lot of clues even before the end of his first official regular season start.

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