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clayton163v

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Everything posted by clayton163v

  1. Nice to see the family saw the thread. Thanks for your efforts @BP.
  2. The recent passing of Savage69 reminded me of how I came to internet message boards and where this all began. It started with USENET which had a discussion group with a Jet message board. One of the old time posters mentioned the "Green House". Perhaps that was it. I neither posted there nor read it. It took a certain type of computer person back then. I was a Kaypro man back then - ever hunt the Wumpus? - and quite computer literate (Ah, dot commands). But that was not an internet compatible computer. Never once let me down. Fabulous product. But along came Windows and whoosh . . . For me it was the message boards of the NY Times. The old posters on that board - people like Savage69 and many of the posters who have come to pay respects - came from the USENET boards. The legacy of those USENET groups lay in the knowledge that quickly arrived at the NY Times board. It was astonishing and far better than any sports reporting in NYC. That - in turn - led to a thriving daily discussion on the Jets. I discovered it and registered on the same day. Instantly addictive. It is no exaggeration to say that there were more daily posts on that Jet message board than there were on the NY Times entire platform. It grew and grew. Soon the international character of the NY Times audience began to attract Jet fans from all over the world. It included people from all walks of life. Many of whom were highly literate. When a player got hurt, you got a medical opinion. When a player got arrested/sued, you got a legal opinion and the policeman's viewpoint. Everybody was on the board.. Sound familiar? Back then, it was completely new. The internet began to shrink the world and you could see it on that board. Then along came Mia. A NY Times moderator. She wiped it all out by banning poster after poster including Henry Hertz. Last straw, that one. After that the old posters scattered. Some went here, some went there. But together they were the base of knowledge and support which gave strength to every Jets message board that has come since. It is why our message boards blow away the rest of the NFL. Take a look at them, you will see what I mean. When did you start posting on the Jets? Which site? Tell us about your early computer(s). Edit - "Green House".
  3. Now that is a fine thread title. Given team depth at safety, I expect the Jets to continue sorting the cut pile. The bad news is that we lose our #2 waiver claim status after game three. The good news is we will soon be 0-3 and will have #1 priority. I am sure the Jets made it clear that it was the opportunity of his career but it was filled with banana peels. I doubt he will be upset since we brought him back quickly. Too soon to judge since he was thrown to the wolves. Unlike Colbert and Wilson, Redwine is a youngster. But they can help us now. Ah, close but not quite @Larz. First the player has to survive the experience without getting their clothes ripped off. The NFL smells a weak link like a shark smells blood. If they are so putrid that you cannot hide them then you are dealing with busthood. Second, a few snaps is not enough. Half a season as a starting player does the trick. It turns a edge roster player into mediocre starter every time. A mediocre starter means depth and every team needs to field some of them. Bravo. I like this thread.
  4. I love Bien-Aime. The idea of English teachers reading his tweets makes me feel warm inside. And that's "no kizzy". PS - I have noted he is brave (or unwise) - calling out the coach - and hard working. It is hard to contest the "Berrios is not the future" argument. Hey, they freed Britney Spears . . . Nah. Their sights are much higher. WONDERFUL DENZEL!. That is the correct side of the field but next time do not go in motion and the snap is on two, not three. And the pattern was a crosser, not a screen pass. But you're making progress. Not only would I like to see an 2-14 team that has started 0-2 play its tomorrow WRs today, but I would like to see if Moore can master slot and gadget duty. One day, he may be ready to be the Z. But not today. We are much meaner with Davis and Mims on the edges with Moore inside. It is better for running plays and I am certain that Moore will be good at Jet sweeps etc. But as a receiver dealing with NFL corners, Moore is not ready to start outside and does not offer prototype size. And he plays small. I had hoped we were getting Steve Smith. Right now he is not even Santana Moss. At both the Z and X size is necessary. Tyrek Hill is a fine Z but tiny fellas are the exception. Until Moore takes the job, he should be in the slot. Hell, I would rotate the three of them. This is why. When Davis is in the slot, you can call a running play against their nickel and use him like an H-back. When it is Moore, he can use the absence of a sideline to avoid the jam and get into his pattern. When it is Mims, call a spread offense play for him and let him run under it. Herman Edwards had this fault. The refusal to change starters out of some sort of loyalty. I am hopeful that - Lafleur in particular - will see that Mims gives us more favorable matchups because of his prototype size and speed. That we are a better team if we get him going. Hopefully this is all about an immature failure to learn the playbook and some angry coaches who decided to teach him a lesson. I am dismayed to see him languishing when he was so promising in the second half of last season. We are 0-2 and are coming off 2-14. It is hard to argue with the kitchen sink approach.
  5. As I wrote earlier in the thread, the offensive line is the one area where the season is pretty much wasted. "I grow depressed watching the Jets field four starters on the offensive line who are unlikely to start for us next year. They constitute wasted snaps which should have been given to a young draft pick. Fant and McGovern are under contract but can be cheaply bought out and we will. Moses will leave and GVR is a backup. Even if we still had Becton, Lewis, Clark and McDermott we would still be playing two guys - McGovern and Moses/Fant who are almost certainly goners. We needed some more young talent and now we are caught short." I am not saying that this year's line will not improve or even play well. That's not my point. Only that we are unlikely to keep Fant ($10 million - buyout $1 million) or McGovern ($10 million = buyout $1.3 million). They might return but it is more likely they will sign with one of the other 31 teams. Moses can leave and GVR is a backup. We will have to add three decent draft picks next season at center, guard and RT. Two of those players should have been added in this draft. Just poor planning imo. Remember, this is not LT. These are 3d-5th round picks. PS - Grant Hermanns on the PS had a dynamite preseason and is a classic developmental project at RT.
  6. Welp, time for my first warning from the moderators.
  7. Nice to see you posting. I will defend our wild Rex. He won big games repeatedly. It was exciting. He fooled the league for almost two years. Until somebody dethrones ole Rex, he is #3 all time as a Jets coach. I know, those were 9-7 teams. But Rex can point to big wins. Who among us will ever forget the Shawn Ellis game against New England? He squeezed ever drop of juice out of Sanchez. Unlike Geno, Mark never earned backup status after leaving. Namath once said that as a rookie he thought Weeb was the meanest old man he had ever met. As time went on he noted that "old Weeb kept looking smarter and smarter." As for Walt Michaels, he had trained our horses and we were ready to make our run and we canned him . . . then dismantled the team. Why?
  8. As I wrote in another thread on this subject: I cannot believe I am saying this but I am far more optimistic for this season and the rebuild than I was at the beginning of the year. Seriously. I thought that our light fast young defense was going to have serious issues. I doubted that we would be able to stymie power running attacks unless we went heavy and then they are dictating the action . . . and we are off our game. I expected backs to blast right up the middle for scores. So far, I have seen only one and we had lots of chances to stop him. Plus the defense was gassed due to playing - and playing well - the entire first quarter. I honestly thought that installing the matchup zone with so many young players was doomed to horrid results in the short term. I expected lots of blown coverage - so far, I have seen one. I honestly think that Saleh and Ulbright can look us in the face. Truly. I never expected it so early in the season and playing so many late draft picks. He is making a silk purse out of a sows ear and it is highly encouraging. I thought it highly unlikely that Zach would be far better than his scouting report. So far, he is as advertised. An inexperienced gunslinger with a ton of arm talent who is not ready. So far, I see exactly what I expected. So I am not less optimistic there either. Now that I have watched AVT have a decent game, I am calming down a bit about him. As I have said, he had best work out - he was very expensive. Well, he is working out. Remember, when the season began - I had not seen him play. The breakdowns last week on his part were mental and physical. On one play, he got Zach creamed. Not this week. I saw no mistakes and his run blocking was solid. Then there is the undeniable tap dancing whilst the western outlaw shoots at your feet. The repeated injuries - three starters lasted less than one quarter last week - led to a tossed salad defense thrown together on the fly. I got news for you fellas. That defense played well enough to win in both weeks. With triple trash Phillips at the MIKE. From where I stand, the new coach has stood on his head. The play of the young corners Hall, Echols, Carter and Guidry is undeniable. They play with discipline too. Few stupid interference penalties. I try to be fair and all is not roses. I grow depressed watching the Jets field four starters on the offensive line who are unlikely to start for us next year. They constitute wasted snaps which should have been given to a young draft pick. Fant and McGovern are under contract but can be cheaply bought out and we will. Moses will leave and GVR is a backup. Even if we still had Becton, Lewis, Clark and McDermott we would still be playing two guys - McGovern and Moses/Fant who are almost certainly goners. We needed some more young talent and now we are caught short. I worry that the Jets will refuse to sit Zach when he reaches the point I saw with Sanchez and Smith. When I knew we had to get them out of the game or damage them. The scouting report said they were not ready. Said the same about Sam too. Zach really does need to sit. One poster said that last week was Zach's "hot stove" game. That he touched a red hot stove (threw it into coverage) and will not do it again (play boring). I sure hope so. Nevertheless, on the whole I am more optimistic than I was at the beginning of the year. The defense is showing signs it is ready to compete right now and a 5th round pick (Carter) and a 6th round pick (Echols) are holding their own as starters - pinch me). The safeties change like models on the runway yet they hold their own. Some guys who were here are already gone - Redwine - and new dudes off the cut pile are headed into the game. Yet it is winning defense. We are putting up a fight and this bodes well for our coach. This is what he said he would deliver. So far, GREAT! I expected a work in progress and I would like to see some more point scored (wouldn't we all). Do I think we will beat Denver in Mile High? No. 21-10 sounds about right. If you had asked me before game one, I would have guessed 35-14. I had little faith in our defense. That has changed. If the offense plays better - read Zach - we could win 14-13. The defense is competing.
  9. I cannot believe I am saying this but I am far more optimistic for this season and the rebuild than I was at the beginning of the year. Seriously. I thought that our light fast young defense was going to have serious issues. I doubted that we would be able to stymie power running attacks unless we went heavy and then they are dictating the action . . . and we are off our game. I expected backs to blast right up the middle for scores. So far, I have seen only one and we had lots of chances to stop him. Plus the defense was gassed due to playing - and playing well - the entire first quarter. I honestly thought that installing the matchup zone with so many young players was doomed to horrid results in the short term. I expected lots of blown coverage - so far, I have seen one. I honestly think that Saleh and Ulbright can look us in the face. Truly. I never expected it so early in the season and playing so many late draft picks. He is making a silk purse out of a sows ear and it is highly encouraging. I thought it highly unlikely that Zach would be far better than his scouting report. So far, he is as advertised. An inexperienced gunslinger with a ton of arm talent who is not ready. So far, I see exactly what I expected. So I am not less optimistic there either. Now that I have watched AVT have a decent game, I am calming down a bit about him. As I have said, he had best work out - he was very expensive. Well, he is working out. Remember, when the season began - I had not seen him play. The breakdowns last week on his part were mental and physical. On one play, he got Zach creamed. Not this week. I saw no mistakes and his run blocking was solid. Then there is the undeniable tap dancing whilst the western outlaw shoots at your feet. The repeated injuries - three starters lasted less than one quarter last week - led to a tossed salad defense thrown together on the fly. I got news for you fellas. That defense played well enough to win in both weeks. With triple trash Phillips at the MIKE. From where I stand, the new coach has stood on his head. The play of the young corners Hall, Echols, Carter and Guidry is undeniable. They play with discipline too. Few stupid interference penalties. I try to be fair and all is not roses. I grow depressed watching the Jets field four starters on the offensive line who are unlikely to start for us next year. They constitute wasted snaps which should have been given to a young draft pick. Fant and McGovern are under contract but can be cheaply bought out and we will. Moses will leave and GVR is a backup. Even if we still had Becton, Lewis, Clark and McDermott we would still be playing two guys - McGovern and Moses/Fant who are almost certainly goners. We needed some more young talent and now we are caught short. I worry that the Jets will refuse to sit Zach when he reaches the point I saw with Sanchez and Smith. When I knew we had to get them out of the game or damage them. The scouting report said they were not ready. Said the same about Sam too. Zach really does need to sit. One poster said that last week was Zach's "hot stove" game. That he touched a red hot stove (threw it into coverage) and will not do it again (play boring). I sure hope so. Nevertheless, on the whole I am more optimistic than I was at the beginning of the year. The defense is showing signs it is ready to compete right now and a 5th round pick (Carter) and a 6th round pick (Echols) are holding their own as starters - pinch me). The safeties change like models on the runway yet they hold their own. Some guys who were here are already gone - Redwine - and new dudes off the cut pile are headed into the game. Yet it is winning defense. We are putting up a fight and this bodes well for our coach. This is what he said he would deliver. So far, GREAT! I expected a work in progress and I would like to see some more point scored (wouldn't we all). Do I think we will beat Denver in Mile High? No. 21-10 sounds about right. If you had asked me before game one, I would have guessed 35-14. I had little faith in our defense. That has changed. If the offense plays better - read Zach - we could win 14-13. The defense is competing.
  10. I too see a 5-12 season coming and worry that the scouting report was right about Zach (not ready - needs to sit a year). I do agree with the opening post that AVT had an excellent game. Zach was clearly off his game. So I spent my time watching the other rookie - AVT. He really did have an excellent game. PFF is fun but I trust my eyes more. We do not have the Washington Hogs but AVT looked like a solid starter yesterday. He has a knack for seal blocks. On one of them, you could see the defensive lineman read the play but AVT turned him anyway. Neither Barmore nor Wise were able to deal with him. Its a shame that Zach did not recover. The defense kept him in the game for the first three interceptions.
  11. Such sad news. While I am not an old poster on JN, I am an old poster on other message boards. Savage69 went back to the old New York Times message board. That was such a different time for the internet. We never met but message boards are one of those things. All dedicated Jet fans can hoist one to Savage69. Rest in peace.
  12. No. It is a supporting cast thing and a game plan that makes sense. We are Jet fans. We know Sam. Ask yourself, will this work: "Sam, throw it to Johnny, if it is not there then throw it to McCaffery." "Sam, throw it to Billy, if it is not there then throw it to McCaffery." Sam - YOU GET THE IDEA. They also have him taking plenty of snaps under center and running play action before they . . . "dump it to McCaffery." I am not surprised that it is working. Sam never had a McCaffery. Sam never had a game plan. Sam never had a coach who realized that he can make all the throws, but is not a rocket scientist. Keep it simple. The Bears should do the same thing with Fields. I got news for you. Matthew Stafford is not a rocket scientist and he was who scouts said reminded them of Sam. As for Zack, Ourlads said he needs to sit for a year. Said the same about Sam and Geno. Mark Sanchez too. Pat Mahomes too. Only one of them sat for a year . . .
  13. Apparently so. He has made the coaching staff forget about them too. All indications were that he had the best camp outside of Moore among the WRs. Yes. It is Smith over Mims. Berrios returns punts and gives you depth. But it is Cole and Smith who have put Mims on the bench. Outright release? Trade? I doubt both for the same reason. Not much is going to come back in return. Mims is still an excellent prospect. But it is a disappointment that he has been unable to learn the playbook well enough to line up correctly and run the proper pattern. He is going to take time but if the light bulb goes on he is still a tremendous talent. As for the players who put him on the bench, both Cole and Smith had excellent camps. And the evidence proves that the Jets protect J. Smith and have refused to waive him for two years now. Remember, J. Smith is a converted college QB who was always a project. It looks like his time is now but given his size speed combination and his plus athleticism, he has real upside and is no slouch. I give Joe D a pass on Mims here. There is no way for Joe D to either just dump him or to know that Mims would be unable to learn the brand new playbook. Remember, Mims is a rookie with that thing. No. But his being inactive might compel another team to make a decent offer. I doubt it is enough to compensate the Jets. Jeff Smith has outperformed Mims. It looked that way in preseason. It became obvious when J. Smith made our final 53 and is now a fact with Mims left inactive. Jeff Smith beat him out. Probably through superior preparation. Crowder is hurt. One of the Jet dynamics that has yet to play out is whether Moore has beaten out Crowder for the starting role in the slot. Until Crowder is active, we do not know. Unless Crowder has beaten out Moore, there is no reason to activate him over more versatile players in Smith and Berrios. Hopefully, the addition of Cole will leave Berrios on the field only to return punts. Last week, Berrios was ahead of Mims on the depth chart. It is why we saw him in the game. This week it should be Davis, Cole and Moore. If we go with a fourth WR, it will be Smith. Agreed. He is betwixt and between in his rookie deal and lengthy development time. It is obvious he has had playbook learning issues. Trading him is not going to magically make his problems disappear.. Yes. I wonder who has won the slot job, Crowder or Moore. I looks like we will have to wait another week to find out. This is the most logical outcome. Unlike Mims, Crowder has value to a needy team. His career stats are impressive and his is a top 15 NFL slot receiver. Is he worth a 2d round pick? No. But you might get a team to give you a 2d round pick for a 3d and Crowder. That would benefit the Jets more than his play this season and is not a high price for a solid contributor. We even reduced his salary to $5 million from $10 which many believe was done so we could trade his contract. FELLAS. While there has been a lot of speculation regarding Mims and his place on the Jets, this is not speculation. We now have evidence that the coaching staff have moved on from Mims. Whether additional practice may improve the coaches' confidence is unknown, but this season appears to be slipping away from Denzel Mims. I try to look at the positive side of things. I offer congratulations to Jeff Smith and wish him well. Go Jets.
  14. I enjoy NFL football and am usually magnanimous towards our opponents in a spirit of sportsmanship and good will. But not when we play New England. I want to win 45-0 sending the home crowd into a frenzy which can be heard in Montana. As for predictions - well - lets just say: "half a league, half a league, half a league onward, all in the valley of death rode the six hundred". I want us to run a conservative offense with a lot of 12 and 13 personnel with run substitutes like screens and Jet sweeps. Hopefully we get up on them early. If not, no heroics.
  15. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Mount_Salak_Sukhoi_Superjet_crash
  16. Me too. WTF? Did you see that clip of Golladay yelling at some equipment guy working on a helmet (presumably his). It looked like it might come to blows. The equipment guy looked like he wanted to be somewhere else. I am not good with the video clips but that one is a doozy.
  17. Well! Look what we have here. After we apply the "off sides" needle (see above) we can say "S--t just be lame to me". Trust me, it will work wonders fellas. I hated it when my Giants fan buddy used to say "six" which was Roger Vick's wonderlic score.
  18. I was astonished how obnoxious he was towards the referees. As if they existed so he could let off steam. I know coaches needle referees, it is part of the job. But I saw behavior that does not win friends and influence people. I instantly disliked him and the WTF coach is a real pro. The Giants are the better team but Coach Rivera got the better of Coach Judge. Judge looked like he had swallowed a sea urchin. Best coach agony face since Coach Nagy of the Bears (when his kicker missed the playoff kick).
  19. Well this week Daniel Jones held onto the ball. And then that happened. That ending was - er - "goatesque". Heh. For the second time, the Giants have given all Jet fans an instantly recognizable method to get under the skin of Giant fans. The Jamal Adams strip sack was the first "hey bro, did Jones fumble that thing or was it taken like a little kid's lollypop" ("and that's when I hit him your honor"). Now all we have to say is "off sides" and the melee will ensue. "Off sides". Heh.
  20. lol. I hate New England too. "as the Patriot O line has our defense line in head locks and suplexing them." An instant classic.
  21. During his rookie year, he got sick and lost weight discipline. He played the second half of the year at 270-280. Other guys would have shut it down. He never let it happen again.
  22. Now, c'mon. Our big guy got rolled up from behind. Can happen to any lineman and does. The real issue was why the interior blocking left its feet and ended up on the ground along with the defender. He got hurt due to poor play inside. I do think the knee is worse than they are letting on. We shall see.
  23. A great read and a good topic. Many want to throw Joe Douglas under the bus for poor draft performance. But I know I speak for many Jet fans who are delighted with his performance thus far. This is why. I have read many posters declare that the only measure of success is player performance. Is the player good or not? I have been watching Jet Gms for more than 40 years. Believe me when I tell you. I think this is WRONG because it is pure hindsight. Hindsight has a place in evaluating management. But so does process and we have lacked an objective process. What I want is an objective assessment of the available talent. Then I want the GM to take players according to value. Sometimes you have to fill a need but you cannot get away from your value board. Then you move around for need and establish relationships with other GMs. Trades must be fairly priced. It drives me nuts to see unforced errors. So far Joe has not only out-drafted me (last season he had me cleanly beat). But even where I would have made a different decision, I had to concede that he did not get ripped off or over-drafted people. Note, out-drafting a fan should happen every year. We have been so BAD that it has been is a rare event. Joe is giving me hope that he gets this basic reality. You cannot get away from the value board. It is not what the team wants. It is not what the team needs. It is what is available on the value board. When he moved up for AVT he violated a cardinal rule of drafting. Bad teams must not move up early in drafts unless it is for a chess piece (QB, LT or Edge) imo. You are what your record says you are and a Guard is not a Chess piece. It was his first unforced error imo. But I cannot complain about the cost. The Bears paid through the nose. Our price was fair. Last year the only player that we over-drafted was Clark (6th round grade). The other guys went where they were rated except Mims (1st), Hall (2d), and Mann (5th) who were objectively bargains as measured against the value board. His two trades back brought solid value. This year everybody went where they were rated except MC2 and Pinnock who lacked draftable grades. Moore (1st) and Nasirildeen (3d) were objective bargains. I attribute the failure to find MC2 and Pinnock to COVID's effect on scouting. Yes, I am making excuses. But COVID qualifies. I have been reading Ourlads for decades and this is the first time they missed our 5th and 6th round picks. Occasionally they miss a 7th but more often they write up an UDFA like they did with Kyle Phillips. I understand that in the end performance has to be evaluated. Joe D will sink or swim on player performance. But process matters and I can fairly judge price based on pre-draft values and trade costs from previous drafts from my CHAIR. I cannot give Joe D any grade but a B. And if he hits on Zack it is an A+. There is nothing wrong with his draft process and it has been a very LONG TIME since I could say that about our GMs. He has made some poor free agent signings but those are the guys whose teams let them walk. Some of them are great players looking to get paid. Most of the time you are HOPING they can hold the fort. Well, the fort burned down. I will continue to judge him on his drafts. So far, I do not have a basis to make a serious argument that his choices were unreasonable or based on wishful thinking. Have some picks failed? Yes. But we did not "reach" for those picks The Jets were not wrong. The whole scouting community was wrong. So long as that is why we miss on picks, we're doing great.
  24. The theme of this post - basically - is "give up and die or we will get Zack killed." It is truly a sad state of affairs when the exact same idea occurred to me and only a little bit different. Instead of mass quantities of holding penalties - face it fellas, we never win the penalty exchange battle with Voldemort - I suggest we bring in two tight ends and run between the tackles with Adams. Will we win? I doubt it. But Zack will live if we limit his throws and run the old Herman Edwards offense. Yes, the draw on third down. Ack! I would suggest Perine but he is banged up again (Ugh - c'mon young man - Carpe Diem!). But I digress. I would like to believe we can match up with New England at the present time. I just don't believe it. It is not dumping on the veteran offensive line or getting gloomy about this season. It is an honest appraisal that last week we could not run the ball well enough to avoid being one dimensional. As a result - to complete passes - Zack was getting popped by free runners. There are only so many of those hits a QB can take. I too want to see Zack's continued development. I thought he played poorly in the first half. He was short-arming his passes and aiming the ball. When he let it fly in the second half, we saw the arm talent that made him the #2 pick. The TD throw after the Brown burping was exciting and encouraging. But I also thought that a magical, mystical force kept him on the field instead of heading to the tent for evaluation after the burping head bounce (hey fellas, where was the "burping" flag?). I note that magical, mystical forces tend to abandon you when you need them. We know Voldemort is going to go after Zack. We also know the offensive line has less than one half of play together. The rookie guard - AVT - took the field with two weeks of practice and zero preseason. Last week's protection breakdowns were both mental and physical. We are not ready for New England. Maybe later in the year when we have eliminated the mental errors and our 1s have had time to play together. The second half last week reminded me of when Baker Mayfield made his debut in the second half against us and kicked our ass. I remembered thinking, "I wish my rookie QB had done that". Last week, Zack gave us that glimpse. But I also saw him getting popped. Let's run a conservative game plan until we can take off the training wheels without getting Zack killed. I remind everybody that Ourlads warned that Zack should hold the clipboard for a year. They sat Pat Mahomes and Ourlads said the same about him. I think that we all sense that the Jets need to be careful with Zack. The Jets might beat the Pats, but nobody is going to out cheat New England.
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