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Posts posted by Meddle

  1. You want to talk about gay? It's not a chant, but it's the "gayest" traditional whatever it is I have ever seen. Yankee Stadium. The groundskeepers doing some messed up dance routine to the Village People's YMCA. Gay, gay gay! Homo to the extreme. It should be a source of embrassment to all Yankees fans. I remember bursting out laughing the first time I saw it. Absolutely pathetic.

    Is it as "homo" as "BINGO! WE GOT BINGO! WE WIN AGAIN!"?

  2. See here's where you get into Lying to make a

    silly point!! Back up your statement! Show me a

    post where I rip Abe!! I like Abe and have defended

    him on the JI Board and agreed with YJF on this Board

    that he was too hurt to play this past year in the

    Playoffs! Here's a link http://www.jetsinsider.net/forums/showthread.php?t=94087&page=3

    Moreover will you then say George Seifert was a

    great Coach since he won a Super Bowl with the

    49's and never had a record in his 8 yrs worse

    then 10-6?? Or doesn't that count with him?? The

    only people I kill on a regular basis is Martin

    and Hermie!! Hey don't let facts or the Truth get

    in the way when you make a point! And answer the

    Question on Seifert because going on your criteria

    you must think he's a Great Coach record wise!

    Forget when he went to the Panthers he was 8-8

    7-9 then 1-15..Of course 124 thinks the Cats

    were loaded with Talent!! :mrgreen:

    I could swear you were questioning ABE's toughness. I must be wrong. No need to call me a liar. More than ready to admit it if my memory left me.

    I was one of ABE's primary supporters and went at it with 90% of the board with very little back-up, so I am surprised that I forgot you.

    BTW, that was a quote from what, yesterday? You sure you haven't changed your tune at all? 8)

  3. I agree with this. Dinger was very clear that he came to NY for the short term to gain visibility and get a HC gig somewhere. And Donnie, no question IMO, if he repeats last year's performance, will get a gig somewhere. Off the top of my head the jobs that are very likely to open up next year are KC, Detroit, Seattle, Houston, St. Louis, and New Orleans. That's six jobs there, and if the Cowboys back-slide, Parcells will jump ship there.

    Donnie or Dinger, if they do anything here, will be hot names for those jobs.

    I don't discount that they will be looked at if they do well, but Henderson interviewed for nothing off of last year, so it may not be as imminent as you think.

    Dinger has already interviewed for some positions. He has stated his desire to be a HC. I don't know that he'd take any position, but he's a candidate to leave. Still, there will be many hot coordinators apart from our guys, plus hot college coaches and retreads.

    Let's hope our guys do so well that they are both potentially gone.

    For those who hope that Herm expires, at least we have two viable HC candidates around. One potential way to retain some continuity if we think the talent is close but Herm needs to go.

    Could be worse.

  4. How many recieving yards

    How many receptions

    How many touchdowns

    680 yards, 62 receptions, 7 TDs

    Tough to say. I think the key thing with Jolley is that he's just a totally different player than we are used to seeing due to his speed. He'll demand a better defender than Baker or Becht and he will pull coverage away from the receivers. His value will likely transcend his numbers in that regard.

    I'd look for 55 catches, 600 yards and 5 TD's. Not eye popping numbers but a far greater impact than we are used to. In truth, he could do less and still make a big impact. They key thing will be when he makes the catches. Can he convert a lot of big first downs like McCareins did last year and like Lava in 2002? If we could get that then we'd have three solid guys on third and long plus Chrebet.

    He should give us a stronger vertical element when being used in place of the FB.

  5. Tangible results:

    4 seasons: 35-29 record; 2-3 playoff record.

    Treading water defined.

    That's a definite possibility. Though I would caution you from spitting an any winning record, I also agree that you have to have standards.

    They HAVE refaced the team over the last two seasons. I think they deserve to see how their ride works.

    I'm very interested in how this year plays out. I am only a medium fan of Bradway's and though I like Herm, the time has come to open it up.

  6. You know what's great? Herm has '05 to "prove" himself. So far he's a middling coach and a moron. If they win, Herm is a real live coach. If they don't, and they go 9-7, 10-6, then Herm is toast anyway. No longer are people saying "Herm is a bright young coach..." they're saying "Herm is a good coach, but...." It's '05 or bust for the Herm-man. Woody ain't taking no shizzle this year. The first time he has a Ravens-type meltdown, his a$$ will be back on the street.

    I think if the Jets are a failure, he ought to go. Not 100% sure that he will. I hope they would can the whole regime if things don't fly this year.

    That said, I can't see them firing them after a ten win season. Ten wins is an accomplishment that gets put down a lot around here, but in reality, it's the stamp of a quality team/season. Of course it's not the SB or even the elite level, but it's a prerequisite for both and an accomplishment in and of itself.

    If, at the end of the year, we are playing well and in the playoffs, I would likely be fine with ten wins. OF COURSE I WANT MORE, but that does not mean 10 wins is insignificant.

    Being fair and rational is generally the way to go. Saying that we haven't won it in thirty plus years and therefore must have higher standards will actually cause grab-bagging and will get you into trouble and a vicious cycle of replacement. What you want are the same standards all the time. Just keep doing the right thing over and over. A totality of good decisions will eventually get you over the hump.

    It's not my call. To me the 2005 season, as you and others have said, a referendum. This is their team, and if it fails to fly, I would can them.

  7. You guys make me laugh. You are so focused on your little cause that you just don't see straight. You've got these apparent demerits, many of which I don't even agree with, that are somehow supposed to outweigh the man's tangible accomplishments.

    What great accomplishments? This is how we judge coaches now? I go by their record.

    Savage rips ABE and Cumar on a regular basis and now we are to accept Herm is blessed by their mere presence when he took over.

    Herm screwed up all the schemes and put players at the wrong positions, but we are suppose to somehow disregard that he won while doing so?

    You guy are entitled to think what you want. I accept it, but see it very differently.


  8. I don't discredit Herm..

    You don't? You claim that his hiring was a PR stunt even after the guy puts out three playoff teams.

    Herm took over a team that was two straight years out of the playoffs, but you continually say he was given a good team. That's a disingenuous way to discredit him.

    When you brush off a guy who has spent his entire adult life in the NFL and has paid all kinds of dues as a guy who was hired based on race, you are discrediting the man.

    TO BE CLEAR - I am not pulling the race card. Full stop.

    It is a discredit to the man.

    He played ten years in this league and played in a SB and for a damn good head coach. He then did some organizational type work in KC (please, no weak coffee jokes) and got into coaching in TB. Of course rather than focus on his exp as a DB coach and an assistant head coach, we focus on the fact that he was not a coordinator.

    Many folks go from coordinator to HC, but we are going to flip out because Herm only coached a position and then went to a leadership position and then a top-level leadership position.

    No credence can be given to the idea that when given his first and potentially his only chance to run a team, Terry Bradway went after who he thought was the best guy. No, we are to believe that he engaged in a PR move as his first order of business rather than a legit head coach.

    This is all discrediting, whether you believe the conspiracy theory or not.

    The Herm hatchet job goes on by angst ridden Jet fans from all corners of the net. And, when folks like me say "hey, this guy has done some good things", we get blasted as homers. A homer - for saying that a winning coach is indeed a winning coach and that there just may be a few reasons that his teams have certain positive characteristics. Characteristics that the belie incompetence.

    I never said the guy was flawless or beyond being replaced or beyond criticism. I just think the man deserves more than a pat on the head and the "Herm's a nice guy - that can't coach his way out of a paper bag" treatment.

    But do what you feel must to keep it real or whatever. All coaches have flaws. Every single one. Torre, Belly, Pat Riley and Bowman all have flaws. When they lose, those flaws start floating towards the surface. Just look at what Torre's endured lately. If the Pats start losing - Belly will start hearing about his gruff attitude and lack of people skills and that he let too many good people go. The critics always find something.

    I thought Belly was the best coach in football before the Pats even won the big game. I was telling my Pat fan buds that they had a legit shot versus the Rams when everyone said they would get blown away. I felt this way because I had seen what Belly can do to an offense when given time to prepare. I put a HUGE value on good coaching. So my support of Herm is not support from soemone who de-values coaching. Quite the opposite.

    Losing Belly at that awful PC with HCNYJ note was an awful moment in our history. I knew it at the time. I often get the feeling that Herm Edwards pays for that PC with all the barbs he takes for simply not being Billy B. He's not, but he's a good coach.

    We've been going back and forth on this for like two years (Jet-Zep being my alter Insider ego) and we are simply repeating ourselves at this point.

    At least we still agree on Lamont. Though not on Curtis... :mrgreen:

    Let's end this with substance. Tell me what it is you want. I want Herm to get this year and then be judged WITH BRADWAY on what they have done with five years. If they are headed in the right direction. then great, but if we have another hiccup, I would want total regime change.

    What's your hope?

    BTW, I never answered the question relating to this thread. I have Herm in the middle. I could argue him as high as 7-8 or as low as circa 20, but he's somwhere in the middle third area. But who cares? It's just a qualatative assessment.

    We need some new topics...

  9. The bottom line is that Herm is not a good coach. He's not. The proof is in the pudding. He can win all the easy games, the early games... but he can't win the big games. He has little or no knowledge of how offense is supposed to work. He clearly plays favorites, to the detriment of the team. He can't even manage a game. He's not even a good coach. And, very clearly, not a top ten coach.

    You kill me because up until last year, he was killed for NOT winning the early games even though he beat playoff teams down the stretch.

    Have you no shame? [-X:mrgreen:

  10. Hermie took over a established Winning Team and did

    about the same as Bumblehead Groh!

    Herm took over a team that had missed the playoffs in both years prior to his arrival. Hardly some juggernaut.

    We can bicker this all day. I am not convinced Herm is the answer, but he's far far from the dolt many of you portray him as.

    The body of work is solid. Sorry - but it is.

  11. I did note that you didn't answer the question. Objectionable as those coaches are or have been, NO ONE blames their coordinators. Only Herm gets less blame than his own coordinators. I'm stll waiting for ANYONE to answer:

    Since Herm was made HC of the NYJ...name ONE other team in the NFL (with enough talent to make it) that, when things go wrong, fans/commentators/journalists curse &/or blame the coordinator(s) & not the head coach (or MORE than the HC).

    Your eye is off the ball my friend.

    Blame? Blame for what? Herm ought to fire himself? Should he never make changes beneath him even if he thinks he can improve the team? If he was unwilling to make such changes, wouldn

  12. Quick -

    Since Herm was made HC of the NYJ...name ONE other team in the NFL (with enough talent to make it) that, when things go wrong, fans/commentators/journalists curse &/or blame the coordinator(s) & not the head coach.

    In Miami, it was Wanstadt's fault.

    In Seattle, it's Holmgren's fault.

    In St. Louis, it's Martz's fault.

    In Denver, Shanahan is taking some heat.

    With the NYJ, it was always Cotrell's fault or Hackett's fault. And if not them, then it was Bradway's fault. Teflon Herm was always blameless.

    Teflon Herm is blameless?

    That's funny, because one Herm detractor continually brings up a speech where he blamed himself. Herm has blamed himself for numerous things throughout his tenure.

    The media has taken him to task for a bunch of things. He's regularly ripped on this board.

    Not sure what world you're living in.

    Almost all head coaches are held up to unreasonable levels of scrutiny. Of the coaches you listed, only Martz and Wanny rates as a fool in my book and even Martz gets points for some very innovative offensive ideas. Martz is sort of Herm's opposite in terms of perception. Great at play-calling, but cannot effectively lead men.

    Wanny showed what he was about in Chicago and middled at best in Miami. He's not the worst ever or anything, but he had to go (unfortunately).

  13. I respect your take as well.

    My main problem with the anti-Herm crew is that they focus solely on his flaws and his perceived flaws (many of which I question) while totally (or at least mostly) disregarding what he does well, and the man does a lot of things well.

    Sure, we loons, who spend a sizeable chunk of our everyday deciphering each and every peep uttered by the media and the team, will find every inconsistency that emits itself from our team, but we must remember the relative effect of such scrutiny.

    We can

  14. Add personnel management to that list. You know....the style that gets you into fights with assistants.



    Are you people really that starved for feeling good about this team that you measure backing into the playoffs 2 out of the 3 years a farging success? Did you celebrate when you came in 3rd place for your age group during the middle school potato sack sprint?

    This is the NFL and the SOLE mission of an NFL team, regardless of how realistic it may be for said team, is to win the Super Bowl. Herm has done NOTHING with this team that can be guaged as a success. Just because the Jets were the ASSCLOWNS of the NFL for 20+ years until the late 90s doesn't make just making the playoffs a success. Herm backed into a 3 way tie for a division title. And he backed into the playoffs last year. Whoo hooo - we beat the colts and the Chargers - bad news, we lost the next week, one of the games to an embarrasing performance by out $64 million QB and another to complete pu$$y leadership by HERMAN EDWARDS.

    Shove the playoffs 3 out of the 4 years crap up your respective rears Herm lovers, this man has DONE NOTHING for that team. No Super Bowl. No AFC Title...hell No AFC Title game appearance. His best job, being a kick away from the game, a kick that if Edwards would have had some balls in the first place wouldn't have been needed.

    Go celebrate finishing 3rd in the AFC somewhere else.

    I will celebrate what I want where I want. You can't ticket me in NY, ociffer... [-X

    This is the typical response. You don't like Herm so you piss on the valid accomplishments of a good coach and our good players. That's your call, but you'll have to allow me to see it my way.

    So to you, there is a champion and 31 losers. I refuse to view it that way. I would never evaluate ANY team that way, why should I view the Jets that way?

    I guess you think that Parcells never accomplished anything during his Jets tenure. I guess that all us Jets fans have completely wasted our time since SB3.

    I see it differently.

    I am starved for a championship. That does not mean that I choose to view EVERYTHING via that skewed prism.

    You do what you wish.

  15. Meddle, this is what we know: Herm can't manage the clock. He has repeatedly proven this. Herm doesn't know offense. If he could, he wouldn't have been tied at the hip to Hackett. If Herm, who expressed that thing had to change on offense with Hackett, know offense, he would have changed it himself, no? in fact, the classic NFL Network footage of the end of the Ravens game showed what might have been the scariest thing of all--not only does Herman not know offense, he very well may not be able to call a single play. Not one. If Herm could call a play, I'm thinking he would have sent it in to Quincy. But he didn't. Could Herm call a play if he had to? In that footage, he clearly could not. Scary.

    As for defense, here is what we know: he came here as a touted defensive backs coach, having had success with John Lynch and Ronde Barber in Tampa Bay. Since Herm got here our D-backs have consistently been the weak point of the team. Not only that, he jammed the cover-two down Ted Cottrell's throast despite not having the personnel to do it. He had Mo Lewis playing the Derrick Brooks role and he had Sean Ellis playing the Warren Sapp role. I think we both know how that worked out. If you want to blame Cottrell, that's fine, but then don't you dare give Herm an ounce of credit for Donnie Henderson's success.

    See how it works?

    Herm lovers/supporters like to point to Hackett and Cottrell as being "the problem" that have kept the Jets from getting to the bowl, but they never want to blame the boss. You people say "Herm got to the playoffs 3 out of 4 years...blah blah blah," but when you have to explain why the O sucks or the d sucks, it's the coordinators fault. At some point, bro, Herm has to take the hit. This is his last year to prove himself. There are no more excuses. He has the D coordinator and he has the O coordinator. There is no one left to throw under the bus. It doesn't matter if Chad misses two weeks or the entire season. 2005 is Herm's Alamo. Put up or shut up for Hermie-boy.

    This is his last year to prove himself? He's already proven himself. This is not meant to imply that he

  16. No, his clock management, game planning, game management and decision making makes him a bad coach.


    Game management, clock management and decision making sounds like a lot of stuff. Unfortunately - it's all one thing.

    His game planning is poor? That's funny, because most Herm bashers try to claim that he has nothing to do with game planning.

    After listening to the Herm bashing crew, one might be surprised to find that other head coaches also have two coordinators. 8)

    Belly had two of the best and so did Parcells when he was winning bowls. Good coaches surround themselves with good coaches.

    Herm has chosen The Cane, Donnie Hendu and Dinger. Seems pretty solid to me.

    Still, I could swear that some Herm critics expect him to surround himself with unqualified coaches just to prove that he can do it all himself.


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