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Sperm Edwards

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Posts posted by Sperm Edwards

  1. 2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

      

     

    Per overthecap.com, only 5 teams are dealing with more dead cap than the Jets this year, but keep in mind that all 5 of them were dealing with dead cap from QB contracts (for QB's not on their rookie deals), unlike the Jets.

    You'll also notice a lot of the top teams that are on the top half of the list are dealing with dead cap from quality players, several of whom retired.  Not so with the Jets.  All the players handing us dead cap were just sh*tty/injury prone players given ill-advised contracts.

    As mentioned in the OP's article, the dead money for the Jets was even higher in 2020 ($44.3M), but I don't have the 2020 rankings available.  I'm fairly certain, however, that we were at least in the top 5 that year, if not top 3.  Spotrac.com's has some numbers that are different than what the article states, but we can roughly assume that the Jets, Panthers and Jaguars were likely the 3 worst offenders in that category in 2020, in some order.

    Macc f**king sucked.  

     

    2021 NFL Dead Cap Leaders

    1.       Eagles:  $49.0M (Wentz - $33.8M)

    2.       Lions:  $42.6M (Stafford - $19M)

    3.       Panthers:  $42.5M (Bridgewater - $17M; Kawann Short - $11M)

    4.       Rams:  $39.2M (Goff - $24.7M)

    5.       Saints:  $33.8M (Brees - $11.1M; Janoris Jenkins - $7.2M)

    6.       Jets:  $24.3M

    7.       Steelers:  $24.3M (Pouncey - $6.5M; Steven Nelson - $6.1M; DeCastro - $5.5M)

    8.       Falcons:  $22.0M (Julio Jones - $7.8M)

    9.       Titans:  $21.4M (Adam Humphries - $5M; Isaiah Wilson - $4.8M)

    10.   Bears:  $19.4M (Kyle Fuller - $9M)

    11.   Dolphins:  $17.0M (Ereck Flowers - $8M)

    12.   Raiders:  $16.2M (Rodney Hudson - $12.1M)

    13.   WFT:  $15.6M (Alex Smith - $8.2M)

    14.   49ers:  $14.1M (Kwon Alexander - $6.9M)

    15.   Ravens:  $12.8M (Earl Thomas - $10M)

    16.   Cowboys:  $10.9M (Travis Frederick - $6.1M)

    17.   Giants:  $10.5M

    18.   Chiefs:  $10.1M

    19.   Vikings:  $9.9M

    20.   Bengals:  $9.7M

    21.   Broncos:  $8.1M

    22.   Patriots:  $7.6M

    23.   Jaguars:  $7.1M

    24.   Texans:  $6.7M

    25.   Cardinals:  $6.4M

    26.   Seahawks:  $6.3M

    27.   Packers:  $4.1M

    28.   Bills:  $3.8M

    29.   Browns:  $2.7M

    30.   Buccaneers:  $2.2M

    31.   Chargers:  $2.1M

    32.   Colts:  $0.2M

    I didn't do a close examination of it but I might (yes, it's an exciting home life I lead). Crazy how New Orleans got under the cap. Weren't they over $100MM over with a crazy amount of it in past-paid bonus $ that can't go away by cutting/trading players? Presumably they cleared a huge chunk of it by putting it off for later (meaning they'd still have some cap issues next year, too); I mean there couldn't have been enough room to cut-cut-cut to have all that 'dead cap' space hit this year and still field a team. 

    • Upvote 1
  2. 6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

     

    Maybe I can't.  But you also can't tell me that a season where a rookie WR had:  1) No real offseason, 2) Adam Gase as his coach, and 3) Sam Darnold as his QB didn't have his productivity hindered. 

    Thus, I'll take the positives where I can, because he had a lot working against him.  For those 2 games with Flacco, a decent deep ball thrower, his productivity was good and he passed the eye test.  That's something, not nothing.  So if you want to say "Mims needs to show us something", to that I say, he DID show us something last year.  It doesn't mean he is automatically a stud WR1, but it also doesn't mean he failed to show anything like so many would like to argue. 

    Hopefully he builds off of it.  He's certainly in a good system to do it, and just about anyone has to be a better deep ball thrower than Darnold was.

    I don't disagree with any of this. 

    I'm just saying:

    a) he still has a lot to prove, and yes that includes not being handed a starting job again. He should have to beat out Moore for a starting job, seeing how Crowder is more proven as a slot receiver at this level than Moore. Ultimately a team wants its best 3 on the field. If that's Davis-Moore-Crowder, so be it. If it's Davis-Mims-Moore, that would be my preference. But since all are on the roster the starting jobs should be earned, not granted due to draft slot.

    b) you can't ignore all but the 2-3 games you'd like to cherry pick and then extrapolate only those over the rest of the season. Doesn't hold one ounce of additional validity over doing the same with his 2-3 worst games and extrapolating those instead. 

    The "Mims needs to show us something" quote is not mine, nor is any use of the word "nothing" (as in he showed nothing), so I don't know why you're throwing that in my face as though I did. FFS literally my only use of the word in my post you're quoting was when I said "I have nothing against Mims."

  3. 18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

     

     

    meh they were fine. You can't extrapolate a couple games to a whole season by throwing out the games you don't want to count from said extrapolation.

    Know what this is? 

    53/80 (66%) - 5 TDs, 1 INT - 111.8 QB rating - record of 2-1 (a lone 1-point loss against the SB champs)

    That's a cherry-picked 3-game stretch to end Geno Smith's 2014 season. Turns out you can't look at his best 3-game stretch on a per-game basis and extrapolate that over a full season. Not unless you're - as you're putting it - just seeing what you want to see.

    I have nothing against Mims. He was supposed to be a steal, physically he looks the part, and am hopeful he takes a major leap forward. I'm just waiting to see him reach or exceed the production that was scoffed at for players you advocated dumping after categorizing as a #3 WR at best. And until then I can make little wise cracks that don't mean anything anyway ;)

  4. 1 hour ago, Paradis said:

     

    You guys make me not want to come on JN. No hyberbole

    The hype is too much? da fck does that mean. More like he's been loosely panned for not making the pro bowl in his rookie year, led by Adam Gase and Darnold - on a shortened covid offseason with hamstring injurIES... 

    Rookie fcking covid year

    I can't with some of you. 

    Oh come on. I have nothing against Mims. Just waiting for his production to match his hype & that's it. I don't see this as any different than the omg omg wailing when we picked one QB over another. Let's see if Wilson's production matches his hype as well. 

  5. 4 hours ago, slats said:

    Epic stupidity. Drove me nuts. 

    He was a one-read, stare-down QB who threw something on the order 18 dropped interceptions (on top of the 15 that weren't dropped) in 15 games (against a particularly favorable schedule at that, which even included only favorable weather).

    While of course not an official stat, they still happened, and it's foolishness to expect that type of unlikely luck to be repeatable. 

    That off-season was a painful memory of one stupid, avoidable decision after the other (the handling and re-signing of Fitz was just the most clownshoes of the lot). Also a number of us called them out, one after the next, as they were happening; so it's not remotely hindsight talk.

    • Upvote 2
    • Like 1
  6. 18 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

    The day a player signs and 5-10 years later can bring more money in return to the team then its one in the same.  

    When a home is paid, its contract up, you own it and it becomes total equity.  When a players contract is up he has to get a new contract or you lose him.  

    That was my point, theyre nothing alike

    The problem is you're looking at it as a purchase, not a rental. Teams rent players; they don't sign them to lifetime contracts. 

    You sign a player to a term, from year x to year y, just like the rental market.

    Rental real estate market - which is still real estate - it an excellent analogy, as I outlined.

    • Post of the Week 1
  7. 4 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

    Blind Date GIF by Originals-

    Straw-man... sure. The question I posed is Maye elite and in turn deserving of an elite contract? From your response it seems the answer is, no. As for a straw-man you say:

    Only the top 6 average 14-15 per year. Number 7 down is <11.5 per. Maye is number 9 on the list. https://overthecap.com/position/safety/ 

    Either way, is Maye a top 10 safety worthy of top ten money? (because he's making that right now with the tag) Is he a constant difference maker? I noticed you didn't really say much other than make an emotional plea based on the fact that he couldn't negotiate on an open market for his services and that he was the best player on a horrid team. 

    I outlined it earlier in the thread. On top of those 6, there are at least 3 more who are likely (if not clearly) getting extended in that range (e.g. Jamal Adams). 

    It's a straw-man argument because you're arguing against a point no one's making (pretty much the definition of the term): no one  is saying Maye's an elite safety, nor is anyone saying that he should be paid as an elite safety in the $14MM+ range. 

    Also I never said he was the best player on a horrid team. I said he was named the team's MVP.

    Lastly, like with many positions at a given point in time, each of the top 10 safeties aren't always sitting with the top 10 safety contracts. Often a number of the top 10 safeties are still early into or in the middle of their rookie contracts, and when their time comes up they'll also make more than Maye would get even if he was truly able to shop himself around.

    • Upvote 1
  8. On 7/18/2021 at 11:01 AM, Jet Nut said:

    Theyre nothing alike.  A player contract is multiyear and marries you to the player for the length of the deal until you can free yourself of the commitment.  This can limit your roster moves down the road as player contracts are influenced by a moving cap.

    Non of this is like real estate.  

    @kthisguy is totally right, though.

    The day that extension contract was offered, Maye was already under contract for 1 year $10.6MM.

    Douglas then made him a 3-year offer - in its effect, this is an extension for 2 years tagged to the end of the contract he already has - where the additional 2 years were at a rate under $7MM/year. 

    The rental real estate market is actually a really good analogy here:

    Say you've got this one apartment for rent in a property you owned - let's call it the Jet Nut-house just to put a name on it (sorry I couldn't resist lol) - and the going rate in your area for comps is $1100/month. No it's not as nice as a $1500/month apartment but then you're not drawing a line in the sand trying to get $1500/mo rent anyway, and it's certainly nicer than a $400 apartment. If you felt, based on recent comparable rents in the area, that $1100/month was a fair amount would you take $800/month from a new tenant?

    Before you even answer the obvious "no" to that part-- how about if your existing tenant still had a guaranteed lease with 1 year remaining at $1060/month, and then approached you to say yes he's very interested in signing a 2-year lease extension...but at $670/month (also he could reduce it to only a 1-year extension at his own discretion if he decides he doesn't want to live there anymore). And Mr. Tenant portrayed this to you under the guise of, "But Mr. Jet Nut, it's still not that bad of an offer since it averages out to $800/month, and c'mon it's not like this is some $1500/month apartment you've got here." 

    Would you accept that yourself? Then after you told the tenant where he could shove his "offer" would you continue to follow that tenant on Instagram? ;) 

    • Like 3
  9. 2 hours ago, jgb said:

    Thanks. What about a trade package with the pick value being conditional on him getting extended in 2022? This would be a dumb thing for JD to agree to, a team could play all sorts of games (cut and immediately re-sign, tag him again, etc). But is it possible to make such a condition?

    Yes of course. Jets did that with Vilma years ago. You could look it up but I think it was something like it was for a 4th round pick that upgrades to a 2nd round pick if he signs an extension before his contract expires. So they let the contract expire the following March and then he signed a new contract - technically not an extension - like a day later or something.

    • Upvote 1
  10. 26 minutes ago, jgb said:

    Was musing about this in another thread. I'm not sure how extensions work under franchise tag. Teams extend guys during the season all the time -- could the/a team extent Maye for future years but this year's comp is set in stone or are all new deals verboten -- a prohibition that vests to another team if they trade for Maye during the season? I don't know.

    I think a team that'd acquire Maye has to play by the same rules the Jets have to right now: the deadline to extend him is over.

    This came up a couple years back when the Steelers were in the same situation with Bell. They had him on the trading block that summer and early fall, but no one bit because he'd be a UFA again after (what became) his holdout season. 

    So another team can't do squat with Maye now to lock him up for future years. Best they can do to control him further is they'd have the option of franchise tagging him next year. That doesn't sound like much incentive to fork over a decent draft pick.

    • Upvote 1
  11. 7 minutes ago, jgb said:

    The Jets can, however, opt to trade Maye. Jets could permit Maybe to seek out a possible trade and then decide whether to accept or not. Not saying they would or should, but there is a way for a team to get Maye without ponying up two #1's.

    Sure the team can accept less if they like, but I imagine it's harder to find a trade partner now who's willing to offer up anything serious.

    I mean, can a new team even award him an extension now that the deadline has passed? I think even a new team would have to wait until 2022 to sign him for the 2022 season & beyond to get anything signed. 

    So how high of a draft pick would another team be willing to fork over for a not-elite safety who's playing under the franchise tag? 

    • Upvote 1
  12. Just now, Embrace the Suck said:

    So, when did M Maye become an elite safety? When has Maye ever shown himself to be worthy of a top 10 safety contract? He isn't young, he hasn't shown a consistently high level of production, he's an average to good strong safety who was over drafted like his former running mate. You don't start a negotiation by overbidding which you are by offering Maye a top ten safety contract. The cap is 182 million this year and it was 198 last year. Maye isn't worth 5%+ of your cap. Not when you have 22 starters to pay (24 if you count K/P), and many of them are far more important position wise than safety. Maye is a classic case of Jets fans overvaluing an average to good player that they like for various reasons (best player on poor team last year, not jamal adams, ect.). He's already apparently disowned the Jets on social media so no one should be getting butt hurt over this guy. He'll be 30 soon enough and those of you clamoring for him now won't miss him for long if some safety talent gets cut loose and he gets traded. They'll draft his replacement next year with a second or third day pick. 

    The point is more that the incumbent team MVP was publicly promised a good faith extension negotiation, and it turns out it was a farce. It's one thing if that happens now & then; it's another if that's 100% been the pattern without exception, since the latter can induce future holdouts and such. Crying wolf and all that.

    This above post misses the point of the discussion and further throws in straw-man arguments as though anyone has made the claim he's an elite safety or should be paid like one. No one has.

    The top 10 safeties either already make (or some, like Adams & at least 2-3 others, are on the cusp of getting the same) in the $14-15MM range. I don't recall any complaints in this thread about the Jets not anteing up $14MM/yr for Maye (let alone more than that). 

    Also he's not going to be 30 soon enough, in terms of age being a concern for the Jets. The day Maye turns 30 he would be well outside the time any and all guaranteed money has ended, so under no scenario would the team have been locked into him on his 30th birthday or beyond (not that there's some track record of safeties, who entered the league as older rookies, hitting a career wall instantly at age 30 like RBs or CBs in the first place). 

    Turning 30 is solely an issue for Maye - not an issue for the Jets - because Maye may never fully reach free agency before then. 

    As far as calling him "butt hurt" - and others have said worse - I'd say many here are pretty generous with other peoples' lost income. You can't seriously expect the player to like this, or even be satisfied with it. Since he can't and couldn't truly negotiate with other teams, and since the Jets aren't offering what would be his going rate, Maye's clearly losing millions off what'd be his one & only veteran contract of substance. 

  13. On 7/18/2021 at 9:47 PM, BCJet said:

    Im really not sure what people expect JD to do.  

    Maye is a good player, not a great player and as a free agent he and his agent are able to search out the best deal possible while also dealing with the franchise tag.  JD's job is to use the franchise tag to the organizations advantage, should he just offer more then $15 million per season to avoid negative press?

    Maye is likely an $11-12 million player, if he wont accept that then we should find another solution.   Paying him $15 million "because we have cap space" isnt a smart way to fun an organization.  

    The bolded part is untrue. I take for granted a team is willing to spend less on a player if they know the prior team is entitled to upwards of two 1st round picks. Some teams - many, I'm sure - wouldn't ante up any draft picks higher than maybe round 3 or 4 for a very good but not great safety, which buys the privilege of offering that player an $11-12MM/year contract.

    So while in the literal sense he could shop himself around, in practical terms he could not. So yeah he signed his tag tender, but he had little other option but to do just that: the Jets were so far under the cap they didn't need to rescind the tag to be able to sign anyone else. 

    As far as the last sentence? Though I've seen more than a few straw-man arguments railing against it, really I can recall zero people in this entire thread suggesting the Jets should have offered Maye $15MM (nor $14MM nor $13MM) per season; most of us don't even believe that the Jets "had to" even offer Maye an extension at all (beyond the franchise tag season). 

    • Upvote 1
  14. 6 hours ago, Mogglez said:

    Did you miss the part where I said that I would give that same deal to Maye but, given what know so far, Maye likely wants north of what Ryan got?

    And what is given that we know so far? From what's been leaked (assuming it's true):

    1. Maye has a contract for 1 year at $10.6MM. (All salary, and all exclusively for the 2021 season alone; any extension talks were effectively for 2022 and beyond.)

    2. Maye rejected a team offer of a 2 year $13.4MM ($6.7MM/yr) extension past 2021.

    Absent a total facepalm of a 2021 season, I think it's unlikely Maye will be in for any "rude awakening" you alluded to where he finds none of the league's safety-needy teams would ante up more than that (if not much more).

    There are presently 6 safeties with contracts of $14MM/yr or more. Then there are at least 4 more likely to be around or above that level in Adams, Minkah Fitz, Derwin James, and Marcus Williams. Also possibly Peppers, Savage, and more when their opportunities arise (they'll get more than $8MM/year). The going rate for an above average veteran safety FA in his prime clearly isn't $8MM. I don't personally value non-omg safeties in that $14MM range, but it's hard to deny many teams do.

    I'd rather they just tagged him and left it at that, with no preseason promises of working out a (fair market) extension. Easy enough to rationalize with a new coaching staff coming in. The player may not like it, but it's clear he really despises the route they did take.

  15. 2 hours ago, Savage69 said:

    So you could want a contract done but if the player want's much more then you want to spend that's on JD?? How about they just disagree on the players worth??

    I said and alluded to nothing of the sort. 

    Wanting a contract extension done at under $7MM/year = not really wanting a contract extension done. 

  16. 5 hours ago, slats said:

    The Jets have a long running reputation in this regard, regardless of who the GM is. They’ve paid big money for other teams’ free agents and low-balled and/or let go of their own. It is part of the culture that I’m sure JD would like to change, but giving an above average 28-year-old safety big money isn’t the place to change that perception. This is a young team by design and Maye is a bridge player. He’s not in their long term plans but is important in the short term, and he’s getting paid. 
     
    This is a huge year for Fatusaki and Herndon. With big seasons, those are two guys I could see getting paid to stay.  
     
    The following year QW is up, then Becton the year after that. These guys play well, they’ll get paid, and the cheap reputation will start to evaporate. 

    I wasn’t at all suggesting they had to ante up huge (per alone top 5 safety $) for Maye. More that Douglas went out of his way publicly fawning what a priority it was to get a contract done to lock him up, that it was nonsense, and it’s starting to look like a pattern.

    That’s more the reputation I was referring to, not some arbitrary, self imposed rule some feel we must adhere to, about taking care of one’s own drafted players even to the point of the team’s detriment. 

  17. This came up with Bell in his sit-out season, but aren't other teams in the same boat as the Jets now? I mean, if they trade for him then he's just playing under the tag and they can't sign him to an extension until the season's over, right?

    Especially with the extension deadline now in the past, I can't imagine teams are lining up to give high picks for Maye outright, when he's in need of a big contract, let alone when they can't even offer him a contract until 2022, though a team would still have the option of tagging him again in 2022. I've been surprised plenty of times before, but my gut says Maye's not a big enough name for that to happen like the 5 players they mentioned. 

    If there's even a hint of possibility of the Cowboys' (or anyone's) 2nd round pick for Maye, they should jump on it (and someone like Douglas already would have made that trade if it was possible for a merely pretty-good safety he had no serious interest in extending). The Jets could make a later trade for a different stopgap safety for a lot less than a 2nd round pick (if so desired). I don't even care about the center or any player being thrown in; one more season of Maye at $11MM isn't worth a 2nd rounder to the 2021 Jets.

    • Upvote 3
  18. 5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

    I dont know, its beyond unlikely to me that if he actually got an $8M/yr included a $10-12 mil signing bonus.  That would mean they offered him a $4M/yr deal before the bonus.  Too a players reportedly asking for $14M/yr?  I mean if you want to pay him $4 and he asks for $14, why would you even bother with $8.5M including bonus $$?

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. But to clarify:

    A contract for 3 years $24MM means the $24MM includes not just salary but also all signing bonuses, roster bonuses, option bonuses, workout bonuses, etc. over the life of the contract. It's not just the salary part you look at after the signing bonus.

    There's been no leak of how much of the Jets (alleged 3 yr / $24MM) top offer would have been signing bonus. The only thing I think people are guessing is that perhaps the first 2 years ($16MM, if year 3 is $8MM) is guaranteed; but that's not the same thing as signing bonuses. All signing bonus is guaranteed, but not all guaranteed is in the form of a signing bonus. But years 2 & 3 would have been huge pay decreases, seeing how he's already locked in at $10.6MM for the upcoming season. That makes it really a further 2-year extension at $13.4MM, or under $7MM/yr. There's no way he was locking himself into that, even if another $5MM of it was guaranteed, since he'll still make that anyway unless he gets injured so badly he loses a foot or something.

    Going rates for above average safeties have been at least $11MM as an amortized contract amount, particularly if the 2021 cap hadn't dropped due to covid. The newer franchise tag calculation is lower now than it used to be, so they get to tag him for over $3MM less than they'd have had to before. They've got a lot of young DB bodies and should have enough to fill an extra safety position by next year, plus they've got more than enough picks to take a safety in round 2 (+/- a round) to get a high talent starter at backup/reserve dollars. 

    So I've got no issues paying the franchise amount for 1 year and then reassessing the position after the season. He's very solid, but between the youngsters they have now, the four top-60 picks they have next year, and/or FA in March before that, they'll be able to fill his one safety position (and they could extend him in March as well, if so desired). His age is of no concern to me, so I also would've been ok if they made an offer of a second year at ~$11MM, with half to all guaranteed (less being better), and then a 3rd and/or 4th year could be bloated fluff for all I care (since he'd only see it if he was elite), to bring the 3-4 yr average up to the $12-13MM range (but in effect is 2 yrs $22MM). It wouldn't tie the team to him that much more - one year - and the player's happy. But following spring camp they know what they've got & need better than I do, so I'll defer to their judgment on this. 

    My only real objection is the potentially bad optics of still more unfulfilled promises, in that I hope Douglas isn't getting a reputation among players & agents that could bite the team back in coming off-seasons. Winning cures a lot of that (Pittsburgh and NE had famously been cheapskates for years, but players still want to sign and re-sign there because they're winners). No one wants to play for an over-thrifty loser, unless there aren't any other options offering up ballpark money. So if we fans are still rationalizing Jets' moral victories and the silver linings of seasons that earn still more top 6 draft picks, such a reputation could be a problem.

    If you finish all this I can make more for you. :) 

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