gangreenman
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Posts posted by gangreenman
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Yes next offseason is key, and will give us a clearer evaluation of what kind of GM Idzik is and will be.
The injury-prone, stopgap veterans are by and large on one-year deals and unless they stay healthy and play lights out this year, probably won't be back next year anyway unless it's as backups, and imo doesn't mean that Idzik will feel any extra added pressure in the draft. The Jets will have a LOT of cap room next season, what should be MORE than enough to adequately address any an all positional and depth needs so that Idzik can focus again on BAP. The lone exceptions I'd make to that are again at QB and OLB. Those positions are more important than others, and by virtue of need those two positions should be targeted in the draft next year. That doesn't mean he should "reach" for players at those positions, but by trading down, staying put or perhaps moving up a little, he needs to come away with two excellent prospects at those two positions, unless Smith shows that he is the answer at QB.
I'd say that drafting 3 OL, even if two are project types is a good start for addressing the OL. I truly believe Winters will work out to be a quality starter. There are almost always decent OGs available in FA that could be another one year stopgap, they could draft another in the 3rd round or lower, or sign a quality starter in FA. In FA they can probably add 2-3 quality starters from among the TE, S and RB or OG positions. After FA, they can probably add an OLB (1st or 2nd round), a QB (3rd - 5th round if Smith looks like a keeper), and add quality prospects at 2 of the following 3 positions: ILB, TE, S and RB.
IMO the biggies are QB and OLB. Even if Smith turns out to be a quality starter, they're going to need a solid backup, so they'll need to draft a QB next year even if they sign a decent veteran, unless they really think McElroy can develop. This should definitely be Pace's last season with the team and could be Barnes' only season with the team. I'm hoping that Sapp will continue to develop and solve one OLB spot, but they'll still need another. I've been saying that this needs to be a priority for the last 10 years. IMO Rex and Tanny have gone about things backwards fixing the DL before they do the OLB spot.
Taking a chance on Geno in round 2 is no different than taking a chance on any other position player in the round 2. If he works out great, if not, it hurts and you have to replace him anyway. Getting a potential quality starter in the 2nd round is crazy good value and well worth the shot since it is the most important position on the team and the Jets haven't had topflight quality QB play in forever.
I think we both agree on the main points, but a few counter arguments to some of what you said:
1 - The one year cheap stopgaps to me clearly indicates that Idzik wants to build this team through the draft. He has spent a large part of this offseason trading Revis, cutting Scott, letting Keller, Landry, and Moore walk - all moves intended to cut costs. If we have to spend money to replace the holes he created by making those cuts/deciding to let those guys walk - then everything he did this offseason is pointless. Therefore, drafting guys on the OL and LB (since we are going to lose Harris and Pace) is essential for Idzik's plan to work.
2 - It relates to the above, but taking a chance on Geno in round 2 means he has to work out. You are not going to give up on him regardless after this season, and to draft another QB in the top 4 rounds of next year's draft as well would mean that one of those picks is a waste. You cant have 2 QB's on the field together or sharing time (see: 2012 Jets). Just about every other position (aside from OL) you have the flexibility to have several high picks on the roster without wasting any of them...
If Geno works out and one of the OL drafted this year shows he is capable of starting come 2014, and we draft another one next year as well as a starting caliber OLB - Idzik will be able to use the freed up money to land a few proven players at skill positions (such as WR, TE, and S) in next year's FA.
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I dont know. A lot depends on what he does next offseason. The way Idzik has trimmed the roster and added a lot of injury prone stop gap FA's to fill the voids, hitting on draft picks is a necessity. As I said at the beginning of the offseason that if, going into the 2014 season we have added a legit long term QB, a legit pass rusher, and 2 or 3 competent OL through the draft - he puts himself in a good position. We would be able to dump Sanchez, have enough roster flexibility to make up for the loss of Harris and Pace, and ample money to spend on an experienced #1 WR and some help at the Safety position. He has really yet to address the OL through the draft (drafted 2 project types), and didn'd draft a single linebacker.
Taking a chance with Geno in round 2 instead of one of those positions means that Geno has to work out and that he has to find a good OL and a good LB in next year's draft. He also has to be willing to open the checkbook for a good #1 WR and probably look for some FA help at TE and S as well.
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Because they aren't stupid?
I agree .Calling the Jets stupid would be an insult to the word stupid.
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Beat me to it Greenseed! Had it copied and ready to paste.
What a great write up by KRL! This guy should be the Jets beatwriter and maybe even JetNation can work out a deal with him.
**Nice to hear Marty making adjustments to the pressure and the "O" executing.
** Geno throws a nice deep bawl and has a strong arm
** Allen and even Wilson at S making plays
**From Brian Coz..... Coples down to 278! Awesome! He sounds like he's getting psyched for that OLB position
** Cro is becoming more like Revis with the physical play. Glad to hear it
Go Jets!!!
This. Watching last season after Revis went down, Cro stepped right in and was dominant in coverage. I think being traded to the Jets and playing opposite Revis was the best thing to ever happen to his career. He gets to play in a system that suits him better (man coverage), and had the opportunity to learn from and compete agains arguably the best CB in the history of the game for 2 or 3 years -without being in the spotlight.
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1 Send in your Jersey for store credit
2. Replace with a more expensive jersey
3. Profit
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It sums up the Tanny era in the same way the butt fumble gif sums up the Sanchez. Clumsy and inept
He sold out on winning it in 09-10... He knew just as well as anyone that Revis would be hard to resign long term, that Rex was a great D coach and the majority of the defense was at the tail end of its prime (Scott, Pouha, BThomas, S. Ellis, etc). He traded a lot to land Braylon, Cromartie, and Holmes, and signed aging vets like Woody and Faneca to shore up the OL.
He spent the money to win now... And as a result, when they didn't, left the team in horrible shape for the future.
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They werent doubling him, at all.
Again, if you watch the games, they effectively were. They weren't doing it in the traditional sense to force a turnover, but all four defenders had a foot in the lane every time melo touched the ball. In that situation the right play to make is kicking it out to an open 3pt shooter... Which he did. Problem was none of those 3pt shooters could make anything for most of the series.
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Right the offense was stand around and watch Melo and maybe he'll kick it out....its bad basketball.
In basketball you put the ball in the hands of your best playmaker or superstar and run the offense through him.
I agree there was a lot of standing around and holding the ball and not a enough ball movement to misplace the defense first, but eventually you want to get the ball to your best playmaker in a scoring position. We got some really open looks of the kick outs and penetration from Melo - but nobody could hit.
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Melo wasnt facing double teams against the Pacers.
Effectively he was. When he got the ball in the mid post all five defenders had at least a foot in the land ready to help. This clogged the lane for Anthony, as they wanted to force him to take the tough fadeaway shots over George. When Melo passed it out, his teammates were usually wide open for the bricks they proceeded to fire up.
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Daughtry is the biggest Melo apologist of them all.
I dont know if its because a lot of the media guys went to Cuse...but holy hell the amount of Baghdad Bobs the Knicks have defending them tooth and nail...id argue the Knicks are a bigger circus than the Jets.
They just got their ass kicked by a team without a superstar and their gameplan was to let Melo and JR trade shots every time down the floor.
But yeah- its Chandlers fault. The Chandler narrative is coming out now because he crossed Melo....the media is clearly turning on him. Granted he had a terrible game 1 or whatever game it was where Hibbert went off...but he wasnt the main culprit.
Bottom line is the game plan doesn't matter if no one can put the ball in the basket.
Felton, JR, and Kidd all hat terrible series in terms of shooting. Shumpert was streaky (as always). Chandler never was an offensive threat, so hard to blame him for the woes at that side of the court, but for someone who's reputation in the league is that of a defender and rebounder, hard to argue he was of much use out there judging by the way Hibbert scored and rebounded all 6 games.
Melo was the only one on the team (aside from Copeland - who should have played more) that seemed to be able to make a few shots. And given that he was going up against one of the best defenders in the league and drawing double teams and forcing help every time he touched it, hard to ask the guy to be able to put up 40 a night when his supporting cast couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
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I think the great lesson to take from the playoffs for both the Knicks and the Nets is that if you're going to go anywhere in the playoffs, you have to find tough frontcourt players to do it with, even if it means sacrificing some scoring off the wings. The Pacers, Memphis, and Bulls were all allowed to beat the crap out of people in the paint without penalty. If you can't compete physically there, you're going home in early May every year.
Not necessarily. But you do need role players and supporting cast to be able to hit shots and contribute. Cant rely solely on a superstar to do all the scoring.
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Goodson. Both could get fired but one gets paid whereas the other may have to pay money back and end up in jail unless he can prove that he was hunting deer in the middle of route 80 at 3 in the morning. Woodson can just point to the fact that Melo never wins
The only reason Woodson has any shot at being fired is because Dolan is an incompetent sh*tbag. He is a great coach for the Knicks - even if he got out coached this series.
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Id take Gasol over Chandler because he brings more variety to the table. Not Bynum. Bynum is more talented than both but hes always hurt. I cant invest that kind of money in a guy always hurt even knowing the talent he is. As for the others Id say Pierce is going to the HOF and Ray Allen probably is. I dont think Allen deserves it and that coming from a Big East guy but I think hell make it. Pierce I think is alot like Vince Carter except he accepted a role that Vince never did. Parker will probably get in but its for more the later years not the early title runs. Id be surprised if Manu makes it.
Garnett Allen Pierce and Parker will all be HOFers. Maybe Gasol too. And Artest probably has an outside shot (but I doubt it) - same can be said for Manu. Comparing Gasol to Chandler is a crime against Gasol. He is better at just about every aspect of the game. Thats not a knock on Chandler - I love his toughness and his tenacity - he's just not close to that level. Bynum was healthy for the most part during their championship runs - and he was dominant. Not going to be a HOF guy unless he really stays healthy and gets back to playing at that level..But if he were to maintain the level he played at during those runs for a few years - it wouldn't even be a question.
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Garnett and Pierce werent in their primes. Garnett was probably 3 years removed. He was a dominant player from 2002-2004. By 2007 he was good but if his whole career was 2007 good he wasnt going to the HOF. Im not a big Pierce fan. Maybe that was his most efficient year because of the pieces around him, but in general it was team of good parts. None of the guys could hold a candle at that stage of their careers to Kobe or Melo. It was a slightly better version of the Pistons. Im not sure Id consider Gasol a HOFer. Good player that played better in the playoffs. For the most part I think all those teams were good teams with solid players that complemented each other well. Other than the Celtics nobody at the time was talking about the HOF potential of those other players. It was always about Duncan and "a supporting cast" or Kobe and "a supporting cast". Some of those guys raised it in the playoffs (Parker beat up Kidd in th efinals the one year) but if those individual seasons were their norms I wouldnt consider them for HOF.
FIrst off I disagree. Garnett was incredible that year. Handled Lebron defensively and helped carry that team. He was not at his best, but was more than capable of producing at a high level for 30+ mins per game. Pierce is a surefire HOFer. As is Ray Allen. Rondo has a shot still.
Just because players compliment each other well - doesn't mean they don't deserve to be HOFers. Pippen was on Jordan's "supporting cast" and was still a clear HOFer.
I would still trade Felton and JR for Parker and Ginobli - even at this point in their careers - all day, every day, and twice on Saturdays. And neither are anywhere close to the level they were playing at back in 07 either. Same can be said for my feelings about Tyson Chandler vs. either Gasol or Bynum - Please please please!!
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I think the Copeland point is that his importance came about because he filled a role, just like Sean Williams did a couple years ago rather than it being him as a player. Copeland is older than Melo and JR. Hes only worth the qualifying. Knicks shouldnt pay more than that.
Lets hope Tyson is hurt because if not the Knicks are in trouble.
And I wasn't talking about who to resign. I was talking about the way the series was coached.
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About Copeland; there's reasons he's a rookie at 29. Extrapolating an 82-game successful season after a few good quarters woould be exactly projecting long term success based on a small sample.
Not sure what you mean by this. Copeland was one of the only players on the Knicks this series other than Melo capable of making a 3 and spreading the defense.
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I disagree with that. The Spurs post Robinson didnt have that. The Pistons never one. The Celtics werent HOFers iin their primes. The Kobe Lakers only had 1 HOFer. The Mavs definitely didnt have anything resembling a 2nd HOFer. Maybe you need that 2nd guy if you go up against LeBron and Wade or Durant and Westbrook but you dont need that to beat the Pacers or, in most cases to advance to the Finals.
You can have a star and a competent 2nd/3rd player and win. The issue is your secondary and tertiary players cant just disappear the way Felton, Smith, and/or Chandler did. There really is no reason the Knicks should not have advanced to the Eastern Finals. The Heat are pretty unique but if the Knicks got good efforts out of those 3 players they could beat the Heat every now and then just like the Spurs used to do to LA at times by being a more fundamentally solid team even though they couldnt match option 2 vs Kobe.
You're wrong on almost all counts. Celtics had Garnett and Pierce when they won. 2 HOFers that were capable of playing 30-40 mins a game. Not to mention Ray Allen. And Rondo might be one too before its all said and done if he keeps it up. Kobe lakers only won when they had Shaq (close to his prime) or a mixture of Pau in his prime (definite possibility of HOF), Bynum in his prime (Was the best big man in the league at the time and an All-Star - even if not a HOFer) and Ron Artest in the latter stages of his career.
Spurs the last time they won had Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli all in their primes...
I agree with what you are saying about this particular series though. We did not need a 2nd HOFer to beat the Pacers. If Smith or Felton shot half as well this series as they did the entire regular season Knicks would probably be looking ahead to Miami.
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You're probably correct. The thing that killed me though was that even though Chandler clearly wasn't right, I still think the idea of doubling Hibbert every time he was on the block was one of Woodson's biggest faults. Yes, Chandler's on-ball defense isn't great, but the Pacers were too well-coached and absolutely torched us every time they kicked it out.
Smith was terrible, I've never seen someone shoot so badly for 8 straight games, expect maybe for his performance last year in the playoffs. I'm not sure what they do with him as it's hard to give up the 6th man of the year for nothing, but he had some absolutely back-breaking mental errors.
As for Copeland, he's definitely a stretch 4 who brings more to the game than Novak in just about every category, it'd be nice to keep him around, however even though he's from jersey, he clearly wants to get paid after paying his dues in europe for half a decade. Any ideas what they can offer him besides the initial qualifying offer and the extra 200k for some reason I forget?
As good of a job as he's done since he took over for D'Antoni (and he's been great)...Woodson was badly out coached this series. To put Martin and Chandler in the game at the same time for extended periods of time the first four games of this series in an attempt to matchup with Hibbert and West is a matchup Hibbert and West still win at least 8 times out of ten. And then we get zero offense from either. Needed to see more Copeland earlier on and probably could have given more time to Prigioni or Kidd to keep JR's self destruction tour from absolutely killing the Knicks pretty much every time he touched the ball
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It wasn't an attack on Melo, per se. Just that he's Dominique Wilkins and, like Wilkins, his fans will always be wondering why his teammates are never good enough.
Melo has never had another Superstar on his team. Throughout NBA history, you need at least two HOFers in their primes (or at least still young enough to play 30 mins per) to have a realistic shot at winning a championship. Knicks have never had more than 1 since '73. Ewing in the 90's never got the help he needed and now Melo in this era. The only hope is that Amare can get healthy and stay on the court all season - and learn to produce alongside melo.
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LOL, leave it up to JiF. Well at least you and Matt are happy.
Also, JR needs to go. JR, Felton and Tyson killed them this game.
I wish JR was still under contract so we could trade him - would be able to get a lot after winning 6th man of the year.
Felton didn't play well. He was the only Knick (outside of Melo) that did any scoring this series. If he's off (which he was in all four of the Knicks losses)
they have no shot.
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Refs were bad, really bad...But at the end of the day. Pacers were 34-67 and the Knicks were 34-85. If the Knicks were ever to be considered serious title contenders, they need someone other than Carmelo Anthony to be able to consistently put the ball in the basket.
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charged with:
1. possession of marijuana (under 50 grams)
2. possession of drug paraphernalia
3. unlawful possession of a handgun
4. possession of a loaded handgun
5. possession of hollow point ammunition.
BYE BYE.
Likely going to plea out. DA will probably agree to drop the drug possession charges if he cops to the handgun and ammunition.
Likely 12-16 months in jail before he is released on parole.
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Oh I think it might be worst then that Tom.
The next uniform this kid wears might be bright orange.
Doubt it. Don't think he'd be a good fit with the dolphin culture
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But what is it happening right after the draft and not back in Feb or March?
It's a little odd that people are either leaving or being sent packing soon after the draft.
Cleaning house would have been coming in and dumping people back in Feb. Waiting till May ? Something seems to be a bit off. And it's not like you can determine if some scout was good or not in May because nobody has played a game. If the guy was that horrible and had bad recommendations, why wait till May?
That or some people see the Jets as a sinking ship and are bailing as fast as they can. Who knows, maybe some people told them not to draft such and such players and after not being listened to, they bailed.
Actually, in May is when all the movement happens inside FO's typically.
Immediately after the season is when Owners decide to fire GM's. New GM comes in and first thing he does is sort out his coaching staff.
Then the focus becomes the draft. Those scouts and FO workers have been scouting and preparing since September at that point for the draft, and are fully aware of the team's strategies and who they are looking at etc. Considering how secretive these draft boards are, it would be incredibly foolish to start "cleaning house" just a month or two before the draft for that reason alone.
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idziks first draft happy? or no?
in ***Savage69 NY Jets Forum***
Posted · Edited by gangreenman
I think you need to re-read everything I said.
1- Obviously they are not going to give up on Geno after year 1. We all know that. If you find it necessary to bring in competition for him next offseason, you sign a vet on the cheap. To pick one in the top 4 rounds would mean that either that pick or Geno (if he loses the competition) will be sitting on the bench and that pick will be wasted whichever way the competition goes. This team needs young talent in a lot of different places. Backup QB isn't one of them.
2 - I have said from the day Idzik was hired and all of those cuts and trades were made, and replaced with band-aid stopgaps, that for his plan to succeed he needs to successfully draft a QB, a pass-rushing OLB, and 2 or 3 starting caliber offensive linemen. If he can do that, he puts us in position to open the checkbooks to grab some proven talent at skill positions (because he doesnt have to spend it finding a pass rusher, a QB, and offensive linemen that are already not with the team or won't make it through next offseason). He got his QB and hopefully one of those OL in this draft. We also may have gotten an OLB with the drafting of Richardson depending how Coples does - but thats a big if.
3 - I understand the motive behind signing the stopgap players as a way to fill the positions without using up salary cap. My point (as outlined above) is that if he has to spend a lot of $$ in FA to replace guys like Moore, Pace, etc. Then all that money is still tied up in the same positions - therefore making all that salary reduction a moot point.