Vlad Ducasse & Kyle Wilson

[Ghost]

Vlad Ducasse is bad and does not deserve a roster spot. He honestly doesn't. He's been getting beat pretty much wherever they line him up. He was the main reason for Powell losing about 6 yards on that one play. We're going to be SCREWED if this guy ever gets to see some action.

Kyle Wilson also looks bad. He's been getting beat most of the time, and I hope this does not hurt his confidence going into week 1.

By the way, why can we never run a screen pass? It feels like the Eagles run one at least every series. One time Schotty, one freaking time.

[ylekram]

wilson is on his guy for most plays, just doesnt have awareness. he seems alittle better than last year. comes with time,hopefully.vlad did pretty good at rg last week.at rt, on the play you mentioned, i dont think he thought it was a running play(language barrier). he basically went into a pass mode and threw the defender 3 yards.he just happened to throw him into powell

[dbatesman]

I still think Wilson will be ok.

[JetsFanFromQueens]

To be fair, lets not mention Kyle Wilson during the same sentence as Vlad Ducasse. Wilson isn't even close to being as bad/non-ready as Vlad. It's sad to see Vlad play like this, he's obviously not ready, but Kyle Wilson is a player with plenty of talent. In my eyes, it's only a matter of time before Wilson is able to turn it up a notch. One thing is for sure in regards to Wilson, he's already shown signs of improvements thus far through the preseason when compared to last season. On a side note, asking for a screen pass, during a prseason game is kind of foolish. Especially considering the fact that play-calling has always been meant and designed to stay as vanilla as possible during meaningless preseason games. Why show a screen play this late into the preseason, when we have the Cowboys coming up next?

[Boozer76]

Ducasse is awful. Just plain awful. Right now with Turner out Ducasse is the next man up if we lose any of our front 5 with the exception of Mangold. That's just not a good scenario. Can you imagine if god forbid Hunter or D'Brick go down at any point? Ducasse will get Sanchez killed. He's just so sloppy out there. He's sloppy with jumping offsides, he's sloppy with his footwork, he's sloppy with his leverage, he's sloppy with upper body control...he's just sloppy. He reminds me of high school football when they try out the clumsy huge guy on the O-Line just because he's big and fat. Ducasse looks like he just plain has no idea how to control his body. They need to scour the waiver wire for someone. Hopefully there's a team that is pretty stacked at OL that might be cutting a decent player.

[Ghost]

To be fair, lets not mention Kyle Wilson during the same sentence as Vlad Ducasse. Wilson isn't even close to being as bad/non-ready as Vlad. It's sad to see Vlad play like this, he's obviously not ready, but Kyle Wilson is a player with plenty of talent. In my eyes, it's only a matter of time before Wilson is able to turn it up a notch. One thing is for sure in regards to Wilson, he's already shown signs of improvements thus far through the preseason when compared to last season. On a side note, asking for a screen pass, during a prseason game is kind of foolish. Especially considering the fact that play-calling has always been meant and designed to stay as vanilla as possible during meaningless preseason games. Why show a screen play this late into the preseason, when we have the Cowboys coming up next?

It's not like we throw screens in the reg. season anyway. I do agree with you on Kyle Wilson. He has improved but he's nowhere near where he should be. His awareness is awful. On the play when Riley Cooper got popped by Brodney Pool, Wilson had tight coverage but failed to turn around. He's been having this problem since he's been drafted.

Our defense would be crazy if we took McCourty.

[ylekram]

Ducasse is awful. Just plain awful. Right now with Turner out Ducasse is the next man up if we lose any of our front 5 with the exception of Mangold. That's just not a good scenario. Can you imagine if god forbid Hunter or D'Brick go down at any point? Ducasse will get Sanchez killed. He's just so sloppy out there. He's sloppy with jumping offsides, he's sloppy with his footwork, he's sloppy with his leverage, he's sloppy with upper body control...he's just sloppy. He reminds me of high school football when they try out the clumsy huge guy on the O-Line just because he's big and fat. Ducasse looks like he just plain has no idea how to control his body. They need to scour the waiver wire for someone. Hopefully there's a team that is pretty stacked at OL that might be cutting a decent player.

i disagree about vlad.when he knows who to block or who to pound, he does it pretty well.his problem,imo, is mental.doesnt have a grasp of the game yet.on complicated assignments, he looks pretty bad.on simple,kill your 1 guy assignments, he actually looks pretty good.just keep him out of the left tackle position.lol

[Boozer76]

i disagree about vlad.when he knows who to block or who to pound, he does it pretty well.his problem,imo, is mental.doesnt have a grasp of the game yet.on complicated assignments, he looks pretty bad.on simple,kill your 1 guy assignments, he actually looks pretty good.just keep him out of the left tackle position.lol

Unfortunately playing offensive line requires a little bit of smarts and footwork. These are UPS drivers that he failing to block.

[ylekram]

Unfortunately playing offensive line requires a little bit of smarts and footwork. These are UPS drivers that he failing to block.

my argument is the problems are mental. he seems to be a little slow catching on,but,imo, once he gets it,he could be a force. but maybe not

[JoeWillie]

In my opinion, Wilson has talent, but plays very tentatively, afraid to make a mistake.

Seems to lack some confidence, and as a result, is almost always a second late to the ball and the receiver.

Hopefully, the aggresiveness comes with more playing time, but the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned.

Vlad, on the other hand ... Oh boy. The game just seems to move too fast for him to catch up mentally.

Very concerned about the depth on the O-line. If we go into the season with these backups, and somebody gets hurt, we're in trouble.

Look for a FA O-linemen to be picked up after Tuesday.

Edited September 2, 2011 by JoeWillie

[Boozer76]

......once he gets it,he could be a force. but maybe not

You a Peter King fan?

[#27TheDominator]

Teams use a screen pass to negate a pass rush. Let them come in and dump it behind them. Nobody is rushing the Jets helter skelter. They are playing the run. Screen passes are senseless in those circumstances. The board gets upset because they work well against the Jets, but that's because this D is based on pressure.

[Boozer76]

I just took a crap that looked alot like Ducasse. Mostly for the way it let the toilet paper go right on by on its way down the drain.

[Obrien2Toon]

wilson is on his guy for most plays, just doesnt have awareness. he seems alittle better than last year. comes with time,hopefully.vlad did pretty good at rg last week.at rt, on the play you mentioned, i dont think he thought it was a running play(language barrier). he basically went into a pass mode and threw the defender 3 yards.he just happened to throw him into powell

there's just something I don't like about the way Wilson plays. You're right zero awareness, instincts, whatever you want to call it. I see it on running plays too. He zero's in on his receiver and doesn't even realize the back is running right past him.

[JiF]

I think we're going to get good minutes from both players. I see Vlad doing Turner's role pretty well. Bring him in as a would be TE and have him block on thos traps they love to run. See no reason he cant do that.

And Wilson is fine. He's just got to get his eyes on the ball faster, he is in and around plays, but just isnt making it happen. Looks like something needs to click. The beauty is we have Strickland around so it isnt necessary for him to be our slot guy. Just sucks he isnt at this point since we took him in the 1st.

[Ghost]

As much as I think Ducasse sucks and should not be in this league, I think the coaching staff should find a position for him and only play him at that position. He needs to learn all the tricks to get better at that position and that only takes experience. I might be wrong but he played nearly every position on the OL except center.

[Integrity28]

When the Jets drafted Ducasse, they did so with full understanding that he was a project. You cannot coach what he brings to the table as far as physical attributes go, and I fully expect him to eventually get it. Look around the league, its filled with veteran offensive linemen that play their best football in the mid- to late- years of their careers. O-linemen stay in this league a long time, so the sense of urgency being perpetuated by the fans on Ducasse "needing" to be perfect is absurd. Cutting him after one and a half off-seasons is the stupidest thing I've heard on a Jets site since "Brett Ratliffe is the future" "start Clowney" and "trade up for Reggie Bush or Matt Leinart".

If the Jets had an immediate need to address on the O-line, they'd probably have signed a veteran. They don't, so they didn't... which means they can keep developing this kid.

[Integrity28]

As much as I think Ducasse sucks and should not be in this league, I think the coaching staff should find a position for him and only play him at that position. He needs to learn all the tricks to get better at that position and that only takes experience. I might be wrong but he played nearly every position on the OL except center.

Meh, we have a bunch of versatile backup O linemen, capable of playing multiple positions along the line - this is what you want from backup OL.

[ylekram]

You a Peter King fan?

not really. just calls em as i sees em

[Integrity28]

Also, I agree with JIF on Wilson. Light just needs to go on for him... his ceiling is being better than McCourty which is what many thought of him. He might just not be smart enough to get Rex's scheme - and not being sure of scheme is the difference between playing instinctively and being in the play, and being tentative and being behind the play. He'll get it.

Jets fans just need to stop acting like every rookie needs to save our team - we've got a winner, which allows rookies to get coached up the right way, rather than washing out when the ultimately can't help right away.

[Barcs]

Ducasse was terrible, Wilson wasn't that bad. He did have a mistake or 2, but he was with his man for the most part. Ducasse, however, playing in his most important game as a Jet to make the team, didn't have focus or maybe had too much pressure, and couldn't handle it. I doubt he's going to be cut, but yeah our protection was BAD yesterday and consequently our run game was bad as well.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Barcs

[Vicious89x]

You a Peter King fan?

POSSIBLY

[JiF]

Also, I agree with JIF on Wilson. Light just needs to go on for him... his ceiling is being better than McCourty which is what many thought of him. He might just not be smart enough to get Rex's scheme - and not being sure of scheme is the difference between playing instinctively and being in the play, and being tentative and being behind the play. He'll get it.

Jets fans just need to stop acting like every rookie needs to save our team - we've got a winner, which allows rookies to get coached up the right way, rather than washing out when the ultimately can't help right away.

The beautiful situation that the Jets are in, is they dont need a single solitary player to "save" the team. What our fans dont realize (or at least this board makes you feel that way) is that you dont need the best player in the league at every single position. The Jets are fortunate to have one of, if not the best core group in the league which is still young and all in their prime. That core, is what wins games for the Jets and all the "depth" players that everyone complains about are irrelevant, nice to haves.

Injuries happen, players go down and every year, another player steps up and fill a void for a team. The Packers battled injuries all last season and I'm sure if you analyzed their depth prior to 2010, you'd probably say something like "wow - they are ****ed if _____ goes down". Just like we did with Kris Jenkins and Leon Washington a couple of years back.

[Vicious89x]

I think we're going to get good minutes from both players. I see Vlad doing Turner's role pretty well. Bring him in as a would be TE and have him block on thos traps they love to run. See no reason he cant do that.

And Wilson is fine. He's just got to get his eyes on the ball faster, he is in and around plays, but just isnt making it happen. Looks like something needs to click. The beauty is we have Strickland around so it isnt necessary for him to be our slot guy. Just sucks he isnt at this point since we took him in the 1st.

Couldn't agree more on Wilson. He doesn't seem out matched to me, just a step away from making plays. He's somewhere in between wanting to make plays and being scared of screwing up.

[slats]

When the Jets drafted Ducasse, they did so with full understanding that he was a project. You cannot coach what he brings to the table as far as physical attributes go, and I fully expect him to eventually get it. Look around the league, its filled with veteran offensive linemen that play their best football in the mid- to late- years of their careers. O-linemen stay in this league a long time, so the sense of urgency being perpetuated by the fans on Ducasse "needing" to be perfect is absurd. Cutting him after one and a half off-seasons is the stupidest thing I've heard on a Jets site since "Brett Ratliffe is the future" "start Clowney" and "trade up for Reggie Bush or Matt Leinart".

If the Jets had an immediate need to address on the O-line, they'd probably have signed a veteran. They don't, so they didn't... which means they can keep developing this kid.

^This.

Although I think the Jets would be wise to find a b/u OL on waivers before the regular season, I think the bust talk about this player is ridiculous. He was drafted to be a project. He is a project. The loss of the offseason probably hurt him more than any other player on the team. He comes from a background with no football, and his learning curve is incredibly steep. If you focused on him in last nights game, he blew up his opponent just as often as he blew. Once the light goes on for this kid, he's going to be very good. I'm taking down all your names for my future awesome I told you so manifesto.

I'm more concerned about Wilson, who plays a more instinctual position, and doesn't seem to play it with a lot of instinct. Unlike OL, CB is not a position that generally takes time to develop. You either have it or you don't. Maybe he'll be more effective when the Jets play more zone and he's forced to look at the QB more.

[Vicious89x]

^This.

Although I think the Jets would be wise to find a b/u OL on waivers before the regular season, I think the bust talk about this player is ridiculous. He was drafted to be a project. He is a project. The loss of the offseason probably hurt him more than any other player on the team. He comes from a background with no football, and his learning curve is incredibly steep. If you focused on him in last nights game, he blew up his opponent just as often as he blew. Once the light goes on for this kid, he's going to be very good. I'm taking down all your names for my future awesome I told you so manifesto.

I'm more concerned about Wilson, who plays a more instinctual position, and doesn't seem to play it with a lot of instinct. Unlike OL, CB is not a position that generally takes time to develop. You either have it or you don't. Maybe he'll be more effective when the Jets play more zone and he's forced to look at the QB more.

I said it already, I think he has those instincts... it just seems like he's scared to act on them. He's there, and it'll click. It's like his timing is off, and that can come.

[slats]

I said it already, I think he has those instincts... it just seems like he's scared to act on them. He's there, and it'll click. It's like his timing is off, and that can come.

People are talking about a fear of making mistakes with him, and if that's what he's got, it's a problem. The whole CB mentality thing is brushing off every blown play and coming back and playing just as fearless next time around. I'm not sure that can be learned. Like I said, I hope he gets better in zone, when he's forced to look back more. That's his biggest issue by far - learning to turn around.

I haven't given up on the kid, but he's the one I'd expect to be much further along at this point.

[Integrity28]

Wilson looks like a kid overwhelmed with the scheme - the longer he's in it, the more he'll be able to act on instinct. If he has to think about what to do, before doing it... it's always going to make him a nanosecond slow to react. He'll get there....

[Vicious89x]

People are talking about a fear of making mistakes with him, and if that's what he's got, it's a problem. The whole CB mentality thing is brushing off every blown play and coming back and playing just as fearless next time around. I'm not sure that can be learned. Like I said, I hope he gets better in zone, when he's forced to look back more. That's his biggest issue by far - learning to turn around.

I haven't given up on the kid, but he's the one I'd expect to be much further along at this point.

I think it'll happen this year. Less pressure at nickel with Strickland here.

[THE ILK]

Project = Bust

Get with the program!

[DireJet38]

Wilson looks like a kid overwhelmed with the scheme - the longer he's in it, the more he'll be able to act on instinct. If he has to think about what to do, before doing it... it's always going to make him a nanosecond slow to react. He'll get there....

Cover your god damn man.

What's so hard about that?

[Integrity28]

Cover your god damn man.

What's so hard about that?

I hope your just kidding.

[Bleedin Green]

Ducasse was terrible, Wilson wasn't that bad. He did have a mistake or 2, but he was with his man for the most part. Ducasse, however, playing in his most important game as a Jet to make the team, didn't have focus or maybe had too much pressure, and couldn't handle it. I doubt he's going to be cut, but yeah our protection was BAD yesterday and consequently our run game was bad as well.

I'm not saying Ducasse was great yesterday (his biggest issue was numerous penalities), but this mentality that the blocking sucked yesterday therefore Ducasse obviously sucked is beyond flawed and fits back into that line of thinking that Ducasse had a bad game against the Texans, so we'll just forever assume he sucked, regardless of if we ever actually see him sucking. Let's not forget, at any given time, Vlad was on that line surrounded by no less than 3 players who will no longer be in the NFL come tomorrow. He may not have been fantastic, but he was far from the Jets biggest problem on the OL yesterday.

[JiF]

I'm not saying Ducasse was great yesterday (his biggest issue was numerous penalities), but this mentality that the blocking sucked yesterday therefore Ducasse obviously sucked is beyond flawed and fits back into that line of thinking that Ducasse had a bad game against the Texans, so we'll just forever assume he sucked, regardless of if we ever actually see him sucking. Let's not forget, at any given time, Vlad was on that line surrounded by no less than 3 players who will no longer be in the NFL come tomorrow. He may not have been fantastic, but he was far from the Jets biggest problem on the OL yesterday.

Jets fans are the worst at this...at least that I've seen. We either have a future HOF or a complete and utter bust. There is no inbetween. The laughable part, is I've never even heard a late 2nd round pick be referred to as a bust. I mean, how many of those players actually become something in the NFL?

Here's a fun game - for sh*ts and giggle and hopefully to give some perspective; below is a list of the 2010 2nd round in order. You point out the number of world beaters in this group.

Rodger Stafford

Chris Cook

Brian Price

Dexter McCluster

Nathaniel Allen

TJ Ward

Arelius Ben

Koa Misi

Torrel Troupe

Rob Gronkowski

Sergio Kindle

Lamaar Houston

Zane Beadles

Daryl Washington

Jimmy Clauson

Taylor Mays

Javier Arenas

Toby Gerhart

Jason Worilds

Jermaine Cunningham

Carlos Dunlap

Terrance Cody

Ben Tate

Montario Hardesty

Golden Tate

Vlad Ducasse

Brandon Spikes

Pat Angerer

Charles Brown

Then to get a real good laugh, look that options in the 3rd the Jets passed on for Vlad - they are not impressive.

Edited September 2, 2011 by JiF

[crackbackblock]

As much as I think Ducasse sucks and should not be in this league, I think the coaching staff should find a position for him and only play him at that position. He needs to learn all the tricks to get better at that position and that only takes experience. I might be wrong but he played nearly every position on the OL except center.

At this time I think the only position for him is RG. In pass protection he will be able to get some help from C or RT. My God he looked awful last night.