Can't blame Sanchez for this loss..

[CTM]

I'll give you the prevent, but discounting the screen yardage is just plain stupid. Seriously. A lot of QBs get big yard totals off of YACs. Brady lives off it.

I'm not discounting it, just adding context when the bloated yards are being used to boast..

sanchez wasn't anywhere near the biggest problem on the field yesterday, but he certainly didn't play well

Edited September 26, 2011 by CTM

[CTM]

Its funny that the Sanchez haters seem to be bitching primarily about his lack of the "I" word.

I don't hate him, I just don't think he's a particularly good qb at this point.. And that's ok..

For all he did well yesterday there were several series where he looked like the worst QB in football... hard to stomach sometimes

[JiF]

I'm nto discounting it, just adding context when the bloated yards are being used to boast..

sanchez wasn't anywhere near the biggest problem on the field yesterday, but he certainly didn't play well

I dunno, he played well consdering all the factors playing against him, IMO. On the road, no running game, offensive line was horrible, the defense couldnt stop me if I were running the Football, our coaching staff had their heads up their a$$, and 1 couldnt adjust to a defense switching to a ******* zone.

Put it this way, if it werent for Sanchez and the pass attack, that game wouldnt have been remotely competitive.

PS - I hope Dez Bryant dies on the first play of the game tonight. <3

[SMC]

I'm not discounting it, just adding context when the bloated yards are being used to boast..

sanchez wasn't anywhere near the biggest problem on the field yesterday, but he certainly didn't play well

They didn't win, so I agree that he didn't play well enough to win.

As to context, Brady passed for 386 yds yesterday, 200+ to Welker and about 150 of those yards were YAC. That's football.

[Vicious89x]

I don't hate him, I just don't think he's a particularly good qb at this point.. And that's ok..

For all he did well yesterday there were several series where he looked like the worst QB in football... hard to stomach sometimes

he makes me more bi-polar than I already am.

[Klecko73isGod]

I don't hate him, I just don't think he's a particularly good qb at this point.. And that's ok..

For all he did well yesterday there were several series where he looked like the worst QB in football... hard to stomach sometimes

And you know what? I don't disagree with that. You've been one of the most level headed posters on here on this subject. My post wasn't directed at you.

[Klecko73isGod]

he makes me more bi-polar than I already am.

YOU WILL NEVER DRINK MY MILKSHAKE AND YOU CANNOT EAT MY PUDDING!!!

[CTM]

They didn't win, so I agree that he didn't play well enough to win.

As to context, Brady passed for 386 yds yesterday, 200+ to Welker and about 150 of those yards were YAC. That's football.

Yes, and if some pats fan after a lost posted his yardage and said he had a good game you can rest assured I'd point things out like that to discount it..

The overarching point is that there wasn't many sustained drives, the last two were against Oakland's stupid prevent that buffalo just tore apart last week.. and prior to that you had the one TD drive with the big screen play, the other was a decent drive but also aided by a 15 yard PF on Oakland, and lastly you had the 10 play FG drive

outside of that you had a whole bunch of 3-6 play drives

1st Quarter

Drive Log: New York Jets @ Oakland Raiders, 1st Quarter

Start Time Time Poss Drive Began # of Plays Yards Gained Result

12:36 2:09 NYJ 20 5 39 Punt

8:30 1:53 NYJ 29 4 71 TD

4:23 0:08 OAK 24 1 0 Int

2:35 4:17 NYJ 21 8 79 TD

2nd Quarter

Drive Log: New York Jets @ Oakland Raiders, 2nd Quarter

Start Time Time Poss Drive Began # of Plays Yards Gained Result

9:55 4:59 NYJ 46 10 51 FG

3:33 1:53 NYJ 20 4 13 Punt

3rd Quarter

Drive Log: New York Jets @ Oakland Raiders, 3rd Quarter

Start Time Time Poss Drive Began # of Plays Yards Gained Result

14:55 3:20 NYJ 21 6 19 Punt

9:34 1:14 NYJ 48 3 -5 Punt

6:45 4:24 NYJ 20 8 43 Downs

4th Quarter

Drive Log: New York Jets @ Oakland Raiders, 4th Quarter

Start Time Time Poss Drive Began # of Plays Yards Gained Result

14:48 4:00 NYJ 20 6 19 Punt

8:31 2:58 NYJ 7 10 93 TD

2:19 1:49 NYJ 42 8 57 Downs

Edited September 26, 2011 by CTM

[Vicious89x]

YOU WILL NEVER DRINK MY MILKSHAKE AND YOU CANNOT EAT MY PUDDING!!!

Oh. You can still speak after I buried you in my points? POINTSKAKKE ALL OVER YER FACE

[SMC]

Thanks for the breakdown, CTM. An interesting thing out of Bills-Raider game.

Raiders sacked Fitz only once that game (he's been sacked only 1 time this season), while Sanchez was sacked 4 times in 2nd half of the game. That can account for some of the offensive issues.

[Larz]

Thanks for the breakdown, CTM. An interesting thing out of Bills-Raider game.

Raiders sacked Fitz only once that game (he's been sacked only 1 time this season), while Sanchez was sacked 4 times in 2nd half of the game. That can account for some of the offensive issues.

wait, there were other guys out there ? I'm gonna have to watch the replay again to make sure. this could be big

[CTM]

Thanks for the breakdown, CTM. An interesting thing out of Bills-Raider game.

Raiders sacked Fitz only once that game (he's been sacked only 1 time this season), while Sanchez was sacked 4 times in 2nd half of the game. That can account for some of the offensive issues.

word... again... sanchez was almost the least of our problems yesterday.. but he didn't play "good" either... he was ok.. the defense and Oline on the other hand were as bad as Klacko's breath after all you can eat rib night

[ZachEY]

Its funny that the Sanchez haters seem to be bitching primarily about his lack of the "I" word.

Well, in the spirit of true Klacko, you have no understanding of the middle ground, whereas Pennington was killed for having the worst physical tools in the game at that time and Sanchez, while he has the physical tools, really has no mind for the game right now.

[Matt39]

Well, in the spirit of true Klacko, you have no understanding of the middle ground, whereas Pennington was killed for having the worst physical tools in the game at that time and Sanchez, while he has the physical tools, really has no mind for the game right now.

This is a bit exaggerated.

[T0mShane]

This is a great thread. Good shots coming from both sides.

Btw, Twitter reporting that Sanchez has a broken nose. Realize that when you're criticizing him, you're criticizing a broken man.

[ZachEY]

This is a bit exaggerated.

Well, he's not functionally retarded, no. But, his vision is crap and so is decision making. Well beyond "he's a young QB" bad.

[Matt39]

Well, he's not functionally retarded, no. But, his vision is crap and so is decision making. Well beyond "he's a young QB" bad.

The interception there were 3 wr's within 3 feet of each other. The whole offense is a mess.

[Bleedin Green]

I was waiting for it to come to this, and it reeks of immeasurable levels of irony. Yes, because certain people refuse to crap all over every single thing Sanchez does, the Penningtology comparison now rears its ugly head. I was wondering how much longer it would take for this debate to sink to this level. The thing that's so fantastically ironic about it, is that in reality, it's the anti-Sanchez argument which follows the Penningtology argument much more so than the vast majority of the defense (if you can even call it that) of Sanchez. The lack of quantifiable evidence or statistical support, the constant changing of the factors of the argument when a particular one no longer fits their agenda, and a heavy reliance on clearly subjective measures as a means to define their analysis, all while adamantly repeating why their perspective is superior despite little to no reason given to support such claims, are all common threads between these two sides.

Not to mention, once again it seems there is only one side that is willing to recognize both sides of the argument and understand the situation is not simply black and white, while the other refuses to acknowledge anything but the slanted view that fits their agenda. Just as Chad needed to be given credit for everything the Jets ever did, Sanchez must now receive all of the blame. Of course I'll quickly be told why I'm unquestionably wrong about all of this, but if there's anything I know about my own Jets fandom, I have never been one to blindly defend anyone associated with this team, and that certainly hasn't changed now, for Sanchez or anyone else.

[T0mShane]

I was waiting for it to come to this, and it reeks of immeasurable levels of irony. Yes, because certain people refuse to crap all over every single thing Sanchez does, the Penningtology comparison now rears its ugly head. I was wondering how much longer it would take for this debate to sink to this level. The thing that's so fantastically ironic about it, is that in reality, it's the anti-Sanchez argument which follows the Penningtology argument much more so than the vast majority of the defense (if you can even call it that) of Sanchez. The lack of quantifiable evidence or statistical support, the constant changing of the factors of the argument when a particular one no longer fits their agenda, and a heavy reliance on clearly subjective measures as a means to define their analysis, all while adamantly repeating why their perspective is superior despite little to no reason given to support such claims, are all common threads between these two sides.

Not to mention, once again it seems there is only one side that is willing to recognize both sides of the argument and understand the situation is not simply black and white, while the other refuses to acknowledge anything but the slanted view that fits their agenda. Just as Chad needed to be given credit for everything the Jets ever did, Sanchez must now receive all of the blame. Of course I'll quickly be told why I'm unquestionably wrong about all of this, but if there's anything I know about my own Jets fandom, I have never been one to blindly defend anyone associated with this team, and that certainly hasn't changed now, for Sanchez or anyone else.

Why use the hammer, when it's the feather that's needed?

[CTM]

This is a great thread. Good shots coming from both sides.

Btw, Twitter reporting that Sanchez has a broken nose. Realize that when you're criticizing him, you're criticizing a broken man.

omg... will GQ have him back?

[T0mShane]

Well, he's not functionally retarded, no. But, his vision is crap and so is decision making. Well beyond "he's a young QB" bad.

Slow processor. Cognitive issues. Some Testaverde there.

[T0mShane]

omg... will GQ have him back?

His twink career is in serious jeopardy. Gasp accordingly.

[CTM]

I was waiting for it to come to this, and it reeks of immeasurable levels of irony. Yes, because certain people refuse to crap all over every single thing Sanchez does, the Penningtology comparison now rears its ugly head. I was wondering how much longer it would take for this debate to sink to this level. The thing that's so fantastically ironic about it, is that in reality, it's the anti-Sanchez argument which follows the Penningtology argument much more so than the vast majority of the defense (if you can even call it that) of Sanchez. The lack of quantifiable evidence or statistical support, the constant changing of the factors of the argument when a particular one no longer fits their agenda, and a heavy reliance on clearly subjective measures as a means to define their analysis, all while adamantly repeating why their perspective is superior despite little to no reason given to support such claims, are all common threads between these two sides.

Not to mention, once again it seems there is only one side that is willing to recognize both sides of the argument and understand the situation is not simply black and white, while the other refuses to acknowledge anything but the slanted view that fits their agenda. Just as Chad needed to be given credit for everything the Jets ever did, Sanchez must now receive all of the blame. Of course I'll quickly be told why I'm unquestionably wrong about all of this, but if there's anything I know about my own Jets fandom, I have never been one to blindly defend anyone associated with this team, and that certainly hasn't changed now, for Sanchez or anyone else.

I lack the attention span to read this post, cliff notes por favor?

[HessStation]

Lulz

[T0mShane]

I lack the attention span to read this post, cliff notes por favor?

Pennington is not Sanchez. You are all stupid for saying so. Yadda.

[ZachEY]

The interception there were 3 wr's within 3 feet of each other. The whole offense is a mess.

I saw. In that case, guys were coming towards the ball and to help as he was trying to escape pressure.. Your comment isn't without merit that there often seems to be traffic of WRs.

[Klecko73isGod]

I was waiting for it to come to this, and it reeks of immeasurable levels of irony. Yes, because certain people refuse to crap all over every single thing Sanchez does, the Penningtology comparison now rears its ugly head. I was wondering how much longer it would take for this debate to sink to this level. The thing that's so fantastically ironic about it, is that in reality, it's the oanti-Sanchez argument which follows the Penningtology argument much more so than the vast majority of the defense (if you can even call it that) of Sanchez. The lack of quantifiable evidence or statistical support, the constant changing of the factors of the argument when a particular one no longer fits their agenda, and a heavy reliance on clearly subjective measures as a means to define their analysis, all while adamantly repeating why their perspective is superior despite little to no reason given to support such claims, are all common threads between these two sides.

Not to mention, once again it seems there is only one side that is willing to recognize both sides of the argument and understand the situation is not simply black and white, while pthe other refuses to acknowledge anything but the slanted view that fits their agenda. Just as Chad needed to be given credit for everything the Jets ever did, Sanchez must now receive all of the blame. Of course I'll quickly be told why I'm unquestionably wrong about all of this, but if there's anything I know about my own Jets fandom, I have never been one to blindly defend anyone associated with this team, and that certainly hasn't changed now, for Sanchez or anyone else.

Ditto.

[jgb]

It happens to the best of them.

yeah just much more often to medicore qbs like sanchez

[Sperm Edwards]

Damned if you do. He was taking what the defense was giving. The first drives when they were in man, he hit everyone. When they switched to zone and our offense coordinator had no answer...he was hitting the RB's and Mason. Cant kill him for that. Our OC thought it was a good idea to run plays that sent receivers in the heart of the zone, right where they want you to throw. Guy were doubled in a ******* zone because our offense is that easy to read. Couple that with no time, zero running game...what the **** did you expect Sanchez to do? Throw down field for more picks? Please.

Our RBs gaining 100 yards on 22 carries constitutes no running game now?

[jack48]

Bottom line McFadden did to them was what Mendenhall did last year in AFC Chmps game, tore the sh*t out of them. Cromartie screwed them also, DONT TOUCH RECEIVER PAST 5 YRDS RETARD! No pass rush at all & Janokowski hitting 60 yrders all day didnt help. Jets were beat by a bigger line up front, Raiders won the trenches. But I am impressed by the fact they are never out of a game, they didnt tank it after being down 31-17. Sanchez will never be Brady or Manning, but he plays with alot of heart& balls. I think Jets are going to suprise people & upset Ravens next week.

Cromartie is long and lanky and he is always flopping around for the first 5 or 10 yards. Some crews let him get away with it and others do not.

[JiF]

really has no mind for the game right now.

Thats just ridiculous.

Btw, Twitter reporting that Sanchez has a broken nose. Realize that when you're criticizing him, you're criticizing a broken man.

I hope he's still smexy.

[JiF]

Our RBs gaining 100 yards on 22 carries constitutes no running game now?

Gaining 100 yards per game, would have landed us at 25th overall in that category last season. So I'd say yes, that constitutes no run game.

Was this intentional? You know, the way I could swing this back on the Sanchez haters if I really wanted to?

[Sperm Edwards]

Gaining 100 yards per game, would have landed us at 25th overall in that category last season. So I'd say yes, that constitutes no run game.

Was this intentional? You know, the way I could swing this back on the Sanchez haters if I really wanted to?

1) 100 yards on 22 carries is not a non-existent running game. 21 yards on 18 carries, which is what Detroit's ground game generated Sunday, is a non-existent running game.

2) Last season is last season and this season is this season. This season, 100 yards per game would rank #13. The 4.5-4.6 ypc would be in the top-10.

This is about as much of a reach of an excuse as I can imagine, and reaching for excuses means to me that you don't think he measures up to other QBs. In short, you feel he needs to be graded on a curve to get a passing grade instead of asking him to ace a hard test.

I'm increasingly thinking think the "haters" (as you put it) are the people who make every excuse in the world, including inventing new ones like this, to launch attacks upon fellow Jets fans who only want to see the team succeed. I haven't seen anyone here put this loss squarely or primarily on Sanchez's shoulders no matter how many times this straw man argument is made. Poor coaching is ok to call out. Poor tackling is ok to call out. Poor blocking is ok to call out. Yet any criticism of this QB's less-than-stellar play (even on indisputable awful plays, and even when mixed in with praise from the same people making criticisms) is taken as a personal affront.

Sanchez is a big boy and shouldn't be any more immune to criticism than anyone else on the team or coaching staff. The most important player on the team should not be the one who needs only soft petting upon his little head. It's a little ironic that people think this team leader needs to be protected like a mama bear protecting her cub, and even more ironic since - from how I've seen him conduct himself in interviews - I doubt very much Sanchez himself feels he's above even sharp or biting criticism of some of his play.

[Aten]

1) 100 yards on 22 carries is not a non-existent running game. 21 yards on 18 carries, which is what Detroit's ground game generated Sunday, is a non-existent running game.

2) Last season is last season and this season is this season. This season, 100 yards per game would rank #13. The 4.5-4.6 ypc would be in the top-10.

This is about as much of a reach of an excuse as I can imagine.

I'm increasingly thinking think the "haters" (as you put it) are the people who make every excuse in the world, including inventing new ones like this, to launch attacks upon fellow Jets fans who only want to see the team succeed. I haven't seen anyone here put this loss squarely or primarily on Sanchez's shoulders no matter how many times this straw man argument is made. Poor coaching is ok to call out. Poor tackling is ok to call out. Poor blocking is ok to call out. Yet any criticism of this QB's less-than-stellar play (even on indisputable awful plays, and even when mixed in with praise from the same people making criticisms) is taken as a personal affront.

Sanchez is a big boy and shouldn't be any more immune to criticism than anyone else on the team or coaching staff. The most important player on the team should not be the one who needs only soft petting upon his little head. It's a little ironic that people think this team leader needs to be protected like a mama bear protecting her cub, and even more ironic since - from how I've seen him conduct himself in interviews - I doubt very much Sanchez himself feels he's above even sharp or biting criticism of some of his play.

You can't blame Sanchez for this loss. Please read thread title before posting and stay on topic.

Last part is dead on. Even Sanchez knows he's blowing it, for god's sake.

[JiF]

1) 100 yards on 22 carries is not a non-existent running game. 21 yards on 18 carries, which is what Detroit's ground game generated Sunday, is a non-existent running game.

2) Last season is last season and this season is this season. This season, 100 yards per game would rank #13. The 4.5-4.6 ypc would be in the top-10.

This is about as much of a reach of an excuse as I can imagine, and reaching for excuses means to me that you don't think he measures up to other QBs. In short, you feel he needs to be graded on a curve to get a passing grade instead of asking him to ace a hard test.

I'm increasingly thinking think the "haters" (as you put it) are the people who make every excuse in the world, including inventing new ones like this, to launch attacks upon fellow Jets fans who only want to see the team succeed. I haven't seen anyone here put this loss squarely or primarily on Sanchez's shoulders no matter how many times this straw man argument is made. Poor coaching is ok to call out. Poor tackling is ok to call out. Poor blocking is ok to call out. Yet any criticism of this QB's less-than-stellar play (even on indisputable awful plays, and even when mixed in with praise from the same people making criticisms) is taken as a personal affront.

Sanchez is a big boy and shouldn't be any more immune to criticism than anyone else on the team or coaching staff. The most important player on the team should not be the one who needs only soft petting upon his little head. It's a little ironic that people think this team leader needs to be protected like a mama bear protecting her cub, and even more ironic since - from how I've seen him conduct himself in interviews - I doubt very much Sanchez himself feels he's above even sharp or biting criticism of some of his play.

Yeah, I realized after I posted it they had a good ypc. I guess I'm just remembering the running game that was getting a 1 ypc toward the end of the game.

Either way, spare me the Sanchez is above criticism lecture. Your lecturing a guy whos been Sanchez's biggest critic. Forgive me for noticing that he's improving in the face of some serious challenges that he's never had to deal with before, bad Oline, horrible OC (thats never changed) and a less than stellar run game. Sanchez last year or the year before playing in this offense would be a complete and utter disaster and he's not really...actually, I'm impressed that he's been as good as he has with all things considered.

If you would have told me that we couldnt run the ball or pass protect prior to the season, I'd have told you we'd be 0-3, Sanchez would be completing 50% of his passes, for 175 yrds per game and he'd have more turnover than TD's.