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I can't look in the playoff thread anymore, lol. What do the Yankees do to improve?

CJ Wilson? He has had two really strong years in a row. He is 30 and this is pretty much his first shot at a payday...possibly only. how much money will he get?

CC -- does he opt out? The Yankees will work something out one way or another...CC is coming back.

Posada? Is he gone?

Cashman? Does he get renewed? In a lot of ways I think this was a good season for him. He was right about Soriano. He didn't do anything at the break though and two of the Tigers moves helped knock the Yankees out. Soriano can actually terminate his contract.

Russell Martin is a free agent. He handled the pitchers well this year but that pop up with the bases loaded killed them yesterday. Is it Jesus time?

Swisher - 10.25 million dollar option? That is WAY too much money. I would bring Swish back if he were a 4.5 million dollar player. A few years ago he was a hitter almost out of a job after hitting very close to .200. Popular, very nice guy...just don't see why the Yankees should over pay here.

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Between A-Rod, Texeira and Swisher there was not enough production through out the 5 games. Now Yankees cannot move A-Rod and Texeira for 5-6 years because of their giant contracts. So Swisher is the odd man out. I would be surprised if they bring him back.

If CC opts out the Yankess brass can give him as much money as he wants but there has to be a some physical fitness related clause introduced in the contract with regard to CC's weight. After he balloned up this season he was not an ace and not worth the money anymore. The Yankees don't need an ace from April to July but one that can last all the way through October!

Russell Martin has to be brought back. Sounds like the Yankees are unsure of Jesus Montero's performance potential behind the plate. And even if he was a good they need a veteran around for a couple of years to mentor him to this job much like they did when Posada/Girardi on this team in the mid to late 90s.

My fear is since the free agent market for pitchers is thin the Yanks might over reach and pull up a Burnett move.

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Between A-Rod, Texeira and Swisher there was not enough production through out the 5 games. Now Yankees cannot move A-Rod and Texeira for 5-6 years because of their giant contracts. So Swisher is the odd man out. I would be surprised if they bring him back.

If CC opts out the Yankess brass can give him as much money as he wants but there has to be a some physical fitness related clause introduced in the contract with regard to CC's weight. After he balloned up this season he was not an ace and not worth the money anymore. The Yankees don't need an ace from April to July but one that can last all the way through October!

Russell Martin has to be brought back. Sounds like the Yankees are unsure of Jesus Montero's performance potential behind the plate. And even if he was a good they need a veteran around for a couple of years to mentor him to this job much like they did when Posada/Girardi on this team in the mid to late 90s.

My fear is since the free agent market for pitchers is thin the Yanks might over reach and pull up a Burnett move.

CJ Wilson is going to get more money than he deserves imo. He has been really good the past two years. But he is 30 and has two good years. If someone gives him a 5 year - 50 million dollar plus contract, that is just insane imo.

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CJ Wilson is going to get more money than he deserves imo. He has been really good the past two years. But he is 30 and has two good years. If someone gives him a 5 year - 50 million dollar plus contract, that is just insane imo.

He has only had 2 good years because he has only been a starter for 2 years. Plus he is a lefty and they tend to take a bit longer to develop. I would honestly go 5 years for 60 million (or even a little more) for him.

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He has only had 2 good years because he has only been a starter for 2 years. Plus he is a lefty and they tend to take a bit longer to develop. I would honestly go 5 years for 60 million (or even a little more) for him.

IMHO you are about 20 million (or more) light.

Both Lackey and Burnett pulled 5 years-82.5 million. While both of these tools had shown some ability and for a little longer period of time than CJ, neither was consistently good over two years like CJ.

I think Texas can get away with a 60-80 million contract due to no state tax.

However, a team like Boston or NY have to factor in cost of living and would need to pay in the 100 range.

Edited by PFSIKH
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IMHO you are about 20 million (or more) light.

Both Lackey and Burnett pulled 5 years-82.5 million. While both of these tools had shown some ability and for a little longer period of time than CJ, neither was consistently good over two years like CJ.

I think Texas can get away with a 60-80 million contract due to no state tax.

However, a team like Boston or NY have to factor in cost of living and would need to pay in the 100 range.

I don't think anybody goes close to the 7 years needed to even come close to justifying 100 million. I think his max contract is 5 years. I can see somebody going 5 for 72.5 to 75 if they are desperate. I think his value lies in the 12 to 13.5 year range with some benchmarks that can automatically kick in a 6th year. Lackey and Burnett are two examples as to why to not chase guys like this at huge dollar amounts and contract years.

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Wilson's going to get AJ Burnett/Carlos Zambrano money. MAYBE even 5/100. He'll be more worth it than either one of them.

The Yankees would be lucky to get him, but I don't think he's a NY kind of guy. The Yankees, as usual, will have to way overpay even more than other teams will have to IMO.

Edited by SenorGato
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I don't think anybody goes close to the 7 years needed to even come close to justifying 100 million. I think his max contract is 5 years. I can see somebody going 5 for 72.5 to 75 if they are desperate. I think his value lies in the 12 to 13.5 year range with some benchmarks that can automatically kick in a 6th year. Lackey and Burnett are two examples as to why to not chase guys like this at huge dollar amounts and contract years.

I agree with everything in your post.

The Rangers need him. The Yankees need him. The Red Sox need him.

While his value might lie in the 12 million range, the Sox and Yankees can enter into the bidding and drive him north of that.

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I agree with everything in your post.

The Rangers need him. The Yankees need him. The Red Sox need him.

While his value might lie in the 12 million range, the Sox and Yankees can enter into the bidding and drive him north of that.

The Red Sox don't need him. Unless they can move Lackey. Lester/Beckett/Buccholz/Lackey is the top four right now. 5th will probably be Aceves or Miller or someone of that nature. Don't forget they also have Dice-K coming off of TJ surgery. They already have a ton of money dedicated to the rotation and the bullpen and line-up needs more fixing. Major decisions to be made about RF, SS, DH and catcher and closer etc.

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The Red Sox don't need him. Unless they can move Lackey. Lester/Beckett/Buccholz/Lackey is the top four right now. 5th will probably be Aceves or Miller or someone of that nature. Don't forget they also have Dice-K coming off of TJ surgery. They already have a ton of money dedicated to the rotation and the bullpen and line-up needs more fixing. Major decisions to be made about RF, SS, DH and catcher and closer etc.

The Sox need him, but whether they go after him is an argument in of itself.

Assuming Bucholz comes back healthy, him and Lester are the only two you can count on.

Can you say we will see a return to a consistent form from Beckett? No. We joked about it last off-season how we expected good things from Beckett due to it being an odd year, but it is truth until he proves otherwise. Odd: 50-20 Even: 34-27

Notwithstanding personal issues that have followed Lackey his first two years (wife's cancer and divorce) in Boston, no one can say for certain we should see a return of the sub-4.00 ERA pitcher the Sox signed.

Dice-K had his surgery in June so the earliest he will be back is June 2012 and that could stretch into July and the All-Star break. He can not wait for him for half the season. Even then, he is Dice-K.

Miller? He has been crap in three places. He should only be a "break the glass in case of emergency" starter from AAA.

Aceves? All things being equal, I would rather keep him in his current role. Plus, he was good in his few starts, not a Justin Verlander. I would like to keep as relief especially if Paps goes somewhere else.

And if we see Wake comeback for another season, I am going to pull every hair out of my head. He is done. Finished.

With the Sox ownership saying "free agency hasn't been great", I think RF (Kalish and Reddick), SS (Lowrie and Iglesias), C (Salty, Tek and Lavarnay) and DH (resigned Big Papi and Lavarnaway) and closer (resigned Paps) solutions will come from within.

The Sox lead the league in scoring this year and were second last year.

They need to fix their pitching. They have been in the bottom 10 the last two seasons in runs allows while the Rays and Yankees have been in or very close to the Top 10.

I doubt they go after CJ, but would rather seem them spend on pitching even though they have a $hitload already invested in Lackey, Beckett and Dice-K.

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Again. I repeat. The Sox do not need him. Just like they didn't need Lackey and they didn't need Crawford. CJ Wilson would be in the same ballpark of overpaid and underachieve. The guy probably couldn't handle Boston.

If Aceves comes back he will want to start. We are talking about the 5th starter here. Not a Verlander type. This is what got the Sox in trouble in the first place. Have to wait and see what happens with Wakefield too.

And I would bet they bring back Scutaro on his option because Iggy isn't ready and Lowrie is always hurt.

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Again. I repeat. The Sox do not need him. Just like they didn't need Lackey and they didn't need Crawford. CJ Wilson would be in the same ballpark of overpaid and underachieve. The guy probably couldn't handle Boston.

If Aceves comes back he will want to start. We are talking about the 5th starter here. Not a Verlander type. This is what got the Sox in trouble in the first place. Have to wait and see what happens with Wakefield too.

And I would bet they bring back Scutaro on his option because Iggy isn't ready and Lowrie is always hurt.

You really cannot go into a season with rotation spots 3-5 being question marks. You also have no idea what Bucholtz comes back as health wise. Can you wait until spring to be sure he is the pre-injury pitcher he was?

As good as Beckett is, he is always a question mark. It's time to agree that Lackey's days as a top starter are over. Miller sucks and Aveves is just a spot starter who occassionaly looks like he can be a steady starter but never really cements that job. Sox need C.J. Wilson.

To be honest if the Rays ever could afford to spend money on some offense and a closer they would be head and shoulders ahead of the rest of the AL East due to their SP depth.

The Yanks and Sox have to get a SP this off season mainly due to the multiple question marks in their current rotations. The Yanks at least have some highly thought of kids waiting in the minors but after the Hughes-Joba-Kennedy misuse/impatience, babying etc, I am not sure they ever go the homegrown youth route again.

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Buchholz will be fine. Might as well spell the name right.

It's the thinking like the Sox need every big name out there that has them in trouble. The Sox don't need him. Period.

Wouldn't you agree that the complete collapse of the pitching staff is what derailed the Sox season? I will be shocked if the Sox go into next season with no changes to that staff.

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Wouldn't you agree that the complete collapse of the pitching staff is what derailed the Sox season? I will be shocked if the Sox go into next season with no changes to that staff.

Yes. I agree and Buccholz wasnt a part of that. They are settled on 4 spots in the rotation. They aren't going to overpay again for CJ Wilson.

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I'd like to take Andrew Miller off the Sox's hands. Not for the Yankees, because god forbid Yankee fans have to see a project pitcher. The Cubs could use a high upside guy who's throwing a whole lot better with new mechanics than he has in a long time...even if the results aren't there yet.

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Again. I repeat. The Sox do not need him. Just like they didn't need Lackey and they didn't need Crawford. CJ Wilson would be in the same ballpark of overpaid and underachieve. The guy probably couldn't handle Boston.

If Aceves comes back he will want to start. We are talking about the 5th starter here. Not a Verlander type. This is what got the Sox in trouble in the first place. Have to wait and see what happens with Wakefield too.

And I would bet they bring back Scutaro on his option because Iggy isn't ready and Lowrie is always hurt.

And not over spending for bats? :confused0088:

The Sox do need him. They dropped 142 million on a 2nd CFer; they can drop some coin on another FA pitcher.

Again, the Sox have been 1st and 2nd in scoring the last two seasons. It might not be pretty but they are scoring.

They have been the bottom 10 in runs allowed the last two years. This is what is killing them the last two years.

The Rays and Yankees have claimed a division in wildcard the past two seasons. Both teams have allowed less runs then the Sox. The Rays have 8 more wins then the Sox, but have done it by giving up over 200 less runs.

The Sox do not need more bats. They need pitching. That is what killed them for 86 years as they tried to outhit everyone. It failed them and it is failing now.

You really cannot go into a season with rotation spots 3-5 being question marks. You also have no idea what Bucholtz comes back as health wise. Can you wait until spring to be sure he is the pre-injury pitcher he was?

As good as Beckett is, he is always a question mark. It's time to agree that Lackey's days as a top starter are over. Miller sucks and Aveves is just a spot starter who occassionaly looks like he can be a steady starter but never really cements that job. Sox need C.J. Wilson.

To be honest if the Rays ever could afford to spend money on some offense and a closer they would be head and shoulders ahead of the rest of the AL East due to their SP depth.

The Yanks and Sox have to get a SP this off season mainly due to the multiple question marks in their current rotations. The Yanks at least have some highly thought of kids waiting in the minors but after the Hughes-Joba-Kennedy misuse/impatience, babying etc, I am not sure they ever go the homegrown youth route again.

Word.

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I never said the Red Sox needed more bats. But they now have openings at DH, RF, SS etc. They need to address those before the rotation.

So you want to give CJ Wilson 100 million to be the 4th starter? Really? Unless they can move Lackey and his bloated salary they won't bring Wilson in. He's good but not worth overspending for. It's asinine. Who knows if mr. Straightedge could even handle Boston. I'd rather see them fix the bullpen and use the money to bring back Papi than for CJ Wilson.

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Yanks need to not pick up swisher's option and replace him with anything. A mailbox would not be as popular but you would get more production out of it. Wilson and the Japanese pitcher should be looked at the better one should be signed. Find a better upgrade than a mailbox to replace swisher.

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I never said the Red Sox needed more bats. But they now have openings at DH, RF, SS etc. They need to address those before the rotation.

So you want to give CJ Wilson 100 million to be the 4th starter? Really? Unless they can move Lackey and his bloated salary they won't bring Wilson in. He's good but not worth overspending for. It's asinine. Who knows if mr. Straightedge could even handle Boston. I'd rather see them fix the bullpen and use the money to bring back Papi than for CJ Wilson.

The Bible thumping Adrian is doing ok.

As I said previously and I agree with your point, but I believe those answers (i.e. C, RF, DH, SS) comes from within.

I think the Sox are going to spend money on pitching irregardless if it is CJ Wilson or not. And likely it is not.

-They need to find a closer whether it is re-singing Paps or finding another. And maybe some else just in case Bard implosion is permanent.

-They need a starter. Aceves is not the answer. Dice-K is not the answer. Wakefield is not the answer. Miller is not the answer. Weiland is not the answer.

Do I think the Sox go after Wilson? No. FO has commented FA is not necessarily the answer. Texas can often him more (i.e. no state taxes), but the Sox need to pick-up a starter to slide behind Beckett and be the 4th or 3rd in case next year is bad Beckett. That is going to require some money.

They have 43 million coming off the books. Assuming they throw a few extra million at Papi (12->15) and Paps (12->15), then they will have 13 million to go after some pitching.

The Sox gave 44 starts to pitchers that do not need to be starting and this list does not include Lackey. Clay's and Dice-K's injuries are a huge factor in this, but the fact remains.

We missed the playoffs by one game because our pitching had no answers and we had pitchers like Miller (2 losses), Weiland (2 losses) and Wakefield (2 losses) starting and losing games in September. Not saying they are the sole reason, but a 160 million dollar pay roll should not allow the Sox playoff hopes coming down to these guys.

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I just think with the money already dedicated to the rotation, the bullpen needs to be addressed more than finding a 4th/5th starter and throwing gobs of money at a guy who doesn't deserve it. I'd rather give Bedard a chance with an incentive laden deal, but some other team will throw real money at him too and he'll go elsewhere.

I'd rather keep Aceves in the pen too, but you risk losing him if you don't tell him he at least has the chance to be a starter. And Miller deserves a legit chance too. He has the arm for it and at times looked pretty good.

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Again. I repeat. The Sox do not need him. Just like they didn't need Lackey and they didn't need Crawford. CJ Wilson would be in the same ballpark of overpaid and underachieve. The guy probably couldn't handle Boston.

If Aceves comes back he will want to start. We are talking about the 5th starter here. Not a Verlander type. This is what got the Sox in trouble in the first place. Have to wait and see what happens with Wakefield too.

And I would bet they bring back Scutaro on his option because Iggy isn't ready and Lowrie is always hurt.

Either the Yanks ro Sawx could find Wilson useful. But both would overpay a guy who will never live up to the premium they pay. And both would probably be as good with a prospect or 2 filling that hole. Plus it would invariably be an overly-long contract. Wilson is basically Derek Lowe-a servicable MLB 2 or 3 on good days, 4 or 5 otherwise.He is probably in line for a big payday because otehr than Oswalt there aren't any other reliable starters in the FA market.
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-I would be interested in C.J. Wilson, but not be interested in paying him $15-16 million a year for 5 years.

-If CC opts out, do not overpay. Pay him what the market sets. Yankees do not need another A-Rod contract on their hands.

-Posada is done, with the Yankees at least.

-Martin isn't a free agent, he's in his last year of arbitration. He'll come back as the starting catcher.

-I'm a big supporter of Cashman, he should be brought back.

-I would like to make a change in RF, but the Yankees need to work from a position of strength. They should pick up Swisher's option and then look to deal him, but not before they find a replacement.

Edited by Holmes Alone
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-I would be interested in C.J. Wilson, but not be interested in paying him $15-16 million a year for 5 years.

-If CC opts out, do not overpay. Pay him what the market sets. Yankees do not need another A-Rod contract on their hands.

-Posada is done, with the Yankees at least.

-Martin isn't a free agent, he's in his last year of arbitration. He'll come back as the starting catcher.

-I'm a big supporter of Cashman, he should be brought back.

-I would like to make a change in RF, but the Yankees need to work from a position of strength. They should pick up Swisher's option and then look to deal him, but not before they find a replacement.

Thanks for the clarification on Martin!

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