Rex, Shotty, this offense, this defense, they all lost the game. No finger pointing. They lost as a team.

[T0mShane]

In my vast experience, when even the homers struggle to pinpoint where the blame lies week-to-week, your team's got some deep, deep issues.

That said, forget about catching the Pats this year. If they can line up an pound the rock at will like they did tonight, it's over unless you can score 36 points.

[T0mShane]

Yahtzee. Kid threw for 166 against a defense giving up 369 a game. Give me a break with this nonsense. Sanchez and Schott, the defense is a distant 3rd.

Brrap brrrrrap. I'm thinking the pro-Sanchez crowd is a little less vociferous this week, even when (all things considered) it was probably his best game of the season.

[RutgersJetFan]

Brrap brrrrrap. I'm thinking the pro-Sanchez crowd is a little less vociferous this week, even when (all things considered) it was probably his best game of the season.

Without question. And that's the problem.

[ZachEY]

Brrap brrrrrap. I'm thinking the pro-Sanchez crowd is a little less vociferous this week, even when (all things considered) it was probably his best game of the season.

Without question. And that's the problem.

Yup. This is about as good as you'll get. And, as you say, that's the problem.

[Bugg]

Rex is a very different person than Mangini or Edwards. But one thing all share is a deeply-held belief that with a good defense, you canwin a lot of games if your offense doesn't make a whole lot of mistakes.

That mindset in 2011 NFL terms is DEATH.And it tends to push the OC and the entire offense to being total pussies. The rules beg you to try to score; look at that PI call today, or the one Wekler got. Good things happen when you throw the ball upfield effectively. It would appear Ryan has learned NOTHING on the sidelines for 3 consective AFC title games where his defense wasn't enough to cover for pussified offense while the opponent dictated the tempo when it matterd by trying to score. The Jets were not going to beat the Pats today scoring 3TDs nor having 8 of 11 drives be 3 and outs. And it leaves the defense on the field way too much sucking wind.

If Schitty thought he was going to have a shot with that gaemplan today he needs to be fired. And if Ryan agrees or proposed it, Tanny needs to have a talk with him. Might also mention the jets have a lot of cap room devoted to WRS that the OC is barely using. This is officially a crisis.

[jgb]

you think the rumors of locker room discord were bad this week... just wait

[jason423]

So they need the D to win every game, every week, including the 2 times they actually get the luxury of playing the worst defense in the league. That sounds fair.

Thats the problem with the Jets. Rex still thinks this is 2009. His defense is nothing like it was in 2009. Its not even close. They arent as physical. They dont have the depth. But they still treat the offense like its 2009. Thats Rexs fault. He basically said he wont get involved with them except as a sounding board for ideas. Thats just such a bad approach to the team. His directive to his coaches is just "dont screw it up" and you get the horsesh!t we saw on the field today. Its time to let Sanchez sink or swim. You have a defense that cant rush the QB and cant cover for any period of time and you call short timing patterns because its safe. Brilliant. I especially loved the 3rd and 2 empty backfield shotgun passes early when the running game was actually working. It was the same crap they did back in 2009. Its like they need to prove a point that they can take an inaccurate QB and design a passing attack that makes the offense work. It killed the Jets today. Thus far you could make the excuse that the Jets faced some decent defenses, but today it was the same nonsense with an awful one. And the Jets got the same result. 166 passing yards against a team that would give up 300 yards to Rutgers. Either the OC or the QB needs to go. Maybe both have to go. If either was on any other team in the NFL we would pick on them like there was no tomorrow. Just because they wear green jerseys and shirts doesnt make them good.

[jason423]

you think the rumors of locker room discord were bad this week... just wait

Jets benched Mason to try to send a message to the team to limit the backstabbing in the media. Wouldnt be stunned if they cut him this week to reinforce the message. As things turned out they did lose to 3 pretty good teams these past three weeks and I think the staff needs to keep them focused on the fact that the worst is over with the schedule and if they beat the teams they are supposed to beat all it takes is a few wins against equal quality teams to make the playoffs. That wont happen with guys spouting off to the papers.

[Bugg]

Thats the problem with the Jets. Rex still thinks this is 2009. His defense is nothing like it was in 2009. Its not even close. They arent as physical. They dont have the depth. But they still treat the offense like its 2009. Thats Rexs fault. He basically said he wont get involved with them except as a sounding board for ideas. Thats just such a bad approach to the team. His directive to his coaches is just "dont screw it up" and you get the horsesh!t we saw on the field today. Its time to let Sanchez sink or swim. You have a defense that cant rush the QB and cant cover for any period of time and you call short timing patterns because its safe. Brilliant. I especially loved the 3rd and 2 empty backfield shotgun passes early when the running game was actually working. It was the same crap they did back in 2009. Its like they need to prove a point that they can take an inaccurate QB and design a passing attack that makes the offense work. It killed the Jets today. Thus far you could make the excuse that the Jets faced some decent defenses, but today it was the same nonsense with an awful one. And the Jets got the same result. 166 passing yards against a team that would give up 300 yards to Rutgers. Either the OC or the QB needs to go. Maybe both have to go. If either was on any other team in the NFL we would pick on them like there was no tomorrow. Just because they wear green jerseys and shirts doesnt make them good.

Play action when you don't have nayone far upfield is pointless. Even if the defense bites on the fake, they still can find someone to cover when they KNOW you don't bother with the deep throw. Great, you faked them out for a split second,but they are still within 6 yards or so of the LOS where your receivers all are by your desig. Even if that works for that split second you accomplished nothing.

[jgb]

Jets benched Mason to try to send a message to the team to limit the backstabbing in the media. Wouldnt be stunned if they cut him this week to reinforce the message. As things turned out they did lose to 3 pretty good teams these past three weeks and I think the staff needs to keep them focused on the fact that the worst is over with the schedule and if they beat the teams they are supposed to beat all it takes is a few wins against equal quality teams to make the playoffs. That wont happen with guys spouting off to the papers.

as always you're the voice of reason, jason. i still want schottenheimer's head on a stick though.

[Bugg]

From Jason's summary-

"The Jets play as if they have the personnel of the Cleveland Browns. With the type of playcalls being made the Jets would have been better off letting Holmes walk and having a receiving corps of Jerricho Cotchery, Brad Smith, and Jeremy Kerley. That’s how unimaginative the offense is."

This

[jason423]

as always you're the voice of reason, jason. i still want schottenheimer's head on a stick though.

Ive been on the Fire Schotty bandwagon since 2008, but I actually went off it a bit this year until this game. I can accept the fact that Sanchez' lack of development is hurting the team, but the playcalling in this game is the classic Schotty garbage that reminds me that he is as much a part of the problem as anyone on the team is.

[SenorGato]

Jets benched Mason to try to send a message to the team to limit the backstabbing in the media. Wouldnt be stunned if they cut him this week to reinforce the message. As things turned out they did lose to 3 pretty good teams these past three weeks and I think the staff needs to keep them focused on the fact that the worst is over with the schedule and if they beat the teams they are supposed to beat all it takes is a few wins against equal quality teams to make the playoffs. That wont happen with guys spouting off to the papers.

Speaking of cutting Mason....who here doesn't like Jeremy Kerley as a WR?

I thought/hoped Kerley wold take his spot by the end of the year. Maybe it actually happens.

[SMC]

The Defense won that Cowboy game by forcing the Romo fumble and the Revis Int. And they won it despite the several offensive turnovers giving the Cowboys excellent field position.

Tony Romo won the game for the Jets. The D got shredded for the whole game and Romo drove down the field and got stripped at the 1. Romo then pulled a Romo by having miscommunication with Bryant.

The Jets D has played 2 good games this year, the Jags and Ravens, that's it.

Of course, the offense has been abysmal.

The bottom line is that the Offense AND Defense are worse in 2011 than they were in 2010. That's why the Jets are 2-3. If either unit was just as good or better than last year then the team would have a better record.

[BornJetsFan1983]

Then Woody needs to fire Tanny for not firing Rex for not firing Shotty.

Fire em all huh? Give me a break. You don't fire your OC 5 weeks into the season. That's an offseason move that's yet to be made.

I dont know, I think Shotty being fired right now would be great. We are losing winable games right now for no reason...

[ThisYearsModel]

The offense is putrid. The defense cannot stop the run. It is total failure.

[JoeWillie]

I had put this response in another thread, but it's more relevant here.

Let's face it ... the moves we made in the offseason (along with the one we didn't) have not made us better... at least to this point.

We essentially have the same personnel on defense as last year, with the exception of Wilkerson for Ellis. Wilkerson has played pretty well, but Cro' has been worse, and teams now know that our safeties suck in coverage and have a full season to take advantage of them with multiple tight end sets. We failed to get the big pass rusher, which not only continues to force us to blitz to create pressure, but it also makes us incredibly dependant on situational substitutions, and as a result, after two years of running the same schemes, makes us VERY predictable defensively. The situational substitutions also put us at an extreme disadvantage defensively against teams that run the "no huddle". Last but not least, the tackling has been absolutely otrocious.

On offense, replacing Woody with Hunter has been a disaster. Ducasse has turned out to be a huge bust, and the guy where stuck with at LG as a result, hasn't been much better, so what was the team's greatest offensive strength for the past two years, specifically our O-line play, is now a weakness, and the negative effect on the running game has been drastic. The pass protection has been abysmal, and while the receivers we've brought in this year may have been an upgrade in individual talent (that point is arguable), the turnover of almost the entire receiving corps, without the benefit of an offseason camp to build chemistry, has had a negative effect on Sanchez's continued development.

Sanchez and Greene have not showed big improvements, but I must admit, it's hard to really judge them behind this disaster of an offensive line, which is playing considerably worse than the previous two seasons, and the bad offensive game planning.

Special Teams have been OK, and McKnight has been a nice surprise, but let's face it ... is he an upgrade over Brad Smith?

Team discipline has been a huge problem. After the first game where we didn't commit a single penalty, the next 4 have been ugly with tons of penalties, many at incredibly critical times.

And then there is the move that SHOULD have been made, but wasn't ... the boy genius OC, who I have always said (along with many others), is just not the right guy for this job.

I'm not jumping ship, but I must admit, my confidence level about getting all this turned around quickly enough to be a factor in post-season is quickly fading. Gotta get back to 3-3 and go from there.

Back to basics, boys. Football games are won and lost at the line of scrimmage.

Blocking and tackling ... gotta get better at both ... and FAST.

[RutgersJetFan]

Either the OC or the QB needs to go. Maybe both have to go. If either was on any other team in the NFL we would pick on them like there was no tomorrow. Just because they wear green jerseys and shirts doesnt make them good.

Of course they both have to go. I don't even know what else needs to be presented at this point to prove that both are equally and independently bad. You've got an OC drawing up plays where literally every single WR is running a hitch 1 yard short of the marker, and you've got a QB that can't complete the simplest of in and our routes in his third effing year. The former is a problem that's going on almost 6 years now, and the latter is going on 3 years. You don't need that much more time than that to determine that someone sucks.

Mangini for instance. A good amount of people knew he sucked before the end of year 3. OC's and QB's are no different. It's OK to subject them to the same type of scrutiny. Sooner or later you just have to say enough is enough with the context and excuses and just go by results. And the results from both of these guys suck. They suck big donkey balls. And this is a QB's league and you need offense to win a Super Bowl, now more than ever with the new rules. There's really nothing wrong with just saying, 'we tried and we failed, time to go back to the drawing board.' There is, however, a sh*t-ton wrong with holding on too long to a failure.

[BornJetsFan1983]

Sanchez isn't the problem, He's been alot of great throws on the money. The cumberland drop the other week is perfect example. When sanchez is given more than 0.5 of a second to throw he makes some pretty good ones. i think he takes a lot of heat because of the options Shotty gives him.

[dbatesman]

So they need the D to win every game, every week, including the 2 times they actually get the luxury of playing the worst defense in the league. That sounds fair.

The parallels to the classical school of Penningtology have officially passed from "eerily similar" to "tragically ironic" to "holy ******* ****."

[stoicsentry]

you think the rumors of locker room discord were bad this week... just wait

Don't see why, against a QB that hasn't lost at home in the regular season in his past, what, 20+ games? They lost by 9 to that team in that situation? Whatever. This game wasn't a mess, far from it. It was a tough contest and New England just beat us in the end, that's all. But it's clear that we are on their level and can play them tight.

[ZachEY]

The parallels to the classical school of Penningtology have officially passed from "eerily similar" to "tragically ironic" to "holy ******* ****."

Going into this game, the Pats were allowing an average of 477.5 yards per game. The Jets amassed 255 yards.

Schotty needs to call more first downs and more yards! Do it!

[Bleedin Green]

Going into this game, the Pats were allowing an average of 477.5 yards per game. The Jets amassed 255 yards.

Schotty needs to call more first downs and more yards! Do it!

Oh, give me a break. The fact that some people's hatred of Sanchez has gotten so extreme that they feel the need to defend Schotty even slightly is absolutely nauseating. Sanchez deserves no excuses from anyone, but Schotty deserves them even less, his resume of failure is far longer and when you start calling plays that are guaranteed to fail even if you had the best player in the NFL at every single position on your offense, it's time to be dragged out back and shot. I mean hell, for as much as I hated Chad, I was never blinded enough to use it as an excuse to defend that dipsh*t Herm, and that's how bad things are starting to get around here.

[ZachEY]

Oh, give me a break. The fact that some people's hatred of Sanchez has gotten so extreme that they feel the need to defend Schotty even slightly is absolutely nauseating. Sanchez deserves no excuses from anyone, but Schotty deserves them even less, his resume of failure is far longer and when you start calling plays that are guaranteed to fail even if you had the best player in the NFL at every single position on your offense, it's time to be dragged out back and shot. I mean hell, for as much as I hated Chad, I was never blinded enough to use it as an excuse to defend that dipsh*t Herm, and that's how bad things are starting to get around here.

I've said that Schotty needs to be fired for a few weeks now. But extremes are thinking that all of the sudden things are going to get much better. Killing Schotty is just step one in a 2 part plan.

[jgb]

Ive been on the Fire Schotty bandwagon since 2008, but I actually went off it a bit this year until this game. I can accept the fact that Sanchez' lack of development is hurting the team, but the playcalling in this game is the classic Schotty garbage that reminds me that he is as much a part of the problem as anyone on the team is.

the slow starts are more schott's fault than sanchez's

[Bleedin Green]

I've said that Schotty needs to be fired for a few weeks now. But extremes are thinking that all of the sudden things are going to get much better. Killing Schotty is just step one in a 2 part plan.

I agree that firing Schotty won't solve everything, but that still doesn't excuse him even slightly, because for anyone who's been paying attention for the past 6 years it should be pretty apparent by now that nothing ever changes despite the personnel, so it really doesn't even matter anymore how good or bad the players playing for him are, because it's proven to make no difference. It's certainly not going to get any worse and is the one change that can be made now. Although I think that plan of yours is going to need at least a step 3, 4 and 5 the way things are going.

[Jetsfan80]

I've said that Schotty needs to be fired for a few weeks now. But extremes are thinking that all of the sudden things are going to get much better. Killing Schotty is just step one in a 2 part plan.

Step 1: Fire Schotty

Step 2: ??????

Step 3: Profit.

[ZachEY]

Step 1: Fire Schotty

Step 2: ??????

Step 3: Profit.

Here's a hint:

¿¿¿???

[Jetsfan80]

Here's a hint:

¿¿¿???

Something in spanish, so.....getting rid of Sanchez? Nah. I want to see what the kid does with a competent offensive gameplan first. If he still sucks chuck him to the curb.

[ZachEY]

Something in spanish, so.....getting rid of Sanchez? Nah. I want to see what the kid does with a competent offensive gameplan first. If he still sucks chuck him to the curb.

You'll have your shot. But, it's not in the gameplan to throw behind WRs, not see open WRs, not protect the football when you're going to get hit, and throw to defenders inexplicably don't see. Schotty is bad, but he's not calling those plays.

[Larz]

Step 1: Fire Schotty

Step 2: promote callahan

Step 3: score more pts.

fixed !

[Damaged89]

Something in spanish, so.....getting rid of Sanchez? Nah. I want to see what the kid does with a competent offensive gameplan first. If he still sucks chuck him to the curb.

This. I don't think sanchez will ever be more than a competent game manager (and that would be a huge improvement from the liability he is now) but the coordinator is awful. Nacho will probably get a shot with someone different next year and if he continues to suck then we can consider the experiment a failure and shut it down.

[ZachEY]

I agree that firing Schotty won't solve everything, but that still doesn't excuse him even slightly, because for anyone who's been paying attention for the past 6 years it should be pretty apparent by now that nothing ever changes despite the personnel, so it really doesn't even matter anymore how good or bad the players playing for him are, because it's proven to make no difference. It's certainly not going to get any worse and is the one change that can be made now. Although I think that plan of yours is going to need at least a step 3, 4 and 5 the way things are going.

Well, if Favre didn't get hurt, we'd have had a strong shot at winning the Super Bowl, but that's neither here nor there at this point.

Schotty sucks. But, when you talk about looking back 6 years, lets look back at Jets recent history with offensive coordinators...

FIRE HACKETT. FIRE HEIMERDINGER. FIRE SCHOTTY.

Being right about Schotty is more about the stopped clock principle than anything else. If we fire Schotty and Sanchez still stinks, then the new guy gets blamed by the more die-hard Sanchez supporters as more and more people realize that regardless of what Schotty did, Sanchez was bad too. So, we get a new QB, and if he's not a great player, then that next OC gets thrown under the bus for him.

In short, it's easy to replace an OC, and it makes us feel better about the team, so Jets fans will continue to do it, ignoring the pink pinata elephant in the room for as long as possible.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

In short, it's easy to replace an OC, and it makes us feel better about the team, so Jets fans will continue to do it, ignoring the pink pinata elephant in the room for as long as possible.

Except for the Jets. We've gone through 3 QB's while keeping the same OC and his philosophy and not once has this offense been anywhere above mediocre of the pack any of those years.

[JustInFudge]

Well, if Favre didn't get hurt, we'd have had a strong shot at winning the Super Bowl, but that's neither here nor there at this point.

Schotty sucks. But, when you talk about looking back 6 years, lets look back at Jets recent history with offensive coordinators...

FIRE HACKETT. FIRE HEIMERDINGER. FIRE SCHOTTY.

Being right about Schotty is more about the stopped clock principle than anything else. If we fire Schotty and Sanchez still stinks, then the new guy gets blamed by the more die-hard Sanchez supporters as more and more people realize that regardless of what Schotty did, Sanchez was bad too. So, we get a new QB, and if he's not a great player, then that next OC gets thrown under the bus for him.

In short, it's easy to replace an OC, and it makes us feel better about the team, so Jets fans will continue to do it, ignoring the pink pinata elephant in the room for as long as possible.

The reality is, you'll never know until the change is made. Its quite clear this offense sucks. Scheme, design, play calling, etc. Its all really really bad. Sanchez and Schotty dont scare anyone in this league. In fact, I gaurantee that when an opposing D see's the Jets on the schedule they are licking their chops.

OC's are expendable. You can replace them like the wind. Unfortunately, QB's dont grow on trees. So while it may be obvious that Sanchez sucks, the chances of the Jets finding a better one are slim. And even if that players is better, are they going to be so much better that it makes a difference? I doubt it.

The unfortunate truth is, the Jets have a better chance of succeeding with Sanchez under a new OC than they do finding a major upgrade over Sanchez. If your name is not Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers or Rivers...it really doesnt matter.

Could the Jets get lucky and find the next one...sure. Problem is, 26 other teams are doing the same thing.