Rex, Shotty, this offense, this defense, they all lost the game. No finger pointing. They lost as a team.

[Bleedin Green]

Well, if Favre didn't get hurt, we'd have had a strong shot at winning the Super Bowl, but that's neither here nor there at this point.

Schotty sucks. But, when you talk about looking back 6 years, lets look back at Jets recent history with offensive coordinators...

FIRE HACKETT. FIRE HEIMERDINGER. FIRE SCHOTTY.

Being right about Schotty is more about the stopped clock principle than anything else. If we fire Schotty and Sanchez still stinks, then the new guy gets blamed by the more die-hard Sanchez supporters as more and more people realize that regardless of what Schotty did, Sanchez was bad too. So, we get a new QB, and if he's not a great player, then that next OC gets thrown under the bus for him.

In short, it's easy to replace an OC, and it makes us feel better about the team, so Jets fans will continue to do it, ignoring the pink pinata elephant in the room for as long as possible.

Schotty hasn't had to live and die with Sanchez and neither will a new OC. Schotty has gone through 4 starting QBs in his 6 years and at least 2 of them have already proven to have vastly more success immediately before and after playing with him than they did with him, even including that useless bastard Chadwick. For as much as he we both know he completely sucked his entire NFL career, only Schotty was able to make him turnover prone on top of everything else. Not to mention the endless list of young QBs he's had the opportunity to develop but repeatedly failed to make a single thing out of any one of Clemens, Ainge, Ratliff, Sanchez, O'Connell or McElroy. That's a new one for every single year he's been here! Schotty has gotten MORE than his fair share of chances with a whole slew of his own hand-picked guys so regardless of how you want to spread the blame, it all comes back to him in the end. Hell, let's be honest here, this guy has gotten to keep his job for another 3 years after the head coach who originally hired him was fired primarily for the failures of his offense at the end of the 2008 season.

Frankly, I don't get the point. If you really want to apply this logic to the team (and I know that's not your stance), nobody could ever be cut or fired unless every other player and coach they were surrounded with was a future hall-of-famer. You can't cut Sanchez, because it's not his fault that Schotty sucks, and you can't fire Schotty because it's not his fault that Sanchez sucks, so I guess we'll just have to sit around and wait until one of them retires and gets replaced by the league's best so that we can prove that the other really does suck.

Of course none of this means that Sanchez is any good, but that still gives absolutely 0 reasoning whatsoever to excuse anything Schotty has done to even the slightest degree. The only reason anyone would feel the need to do so is if they think Sanchez isn't getting sh*t on enough already. And frankly, with the exception of Chadwick, I'm not sure what makes you think being the Jets QB is historically any better of a position to be in than the Jets OC, as you're likely to feel the wrath of Jets fans sooner rather than later in either scenario. Odds are they just both suck a$$, but the coach is a hell of a lot easier to move on from than the player, particularly when he has a history of failure that's twice as long with numerous other players. Just like the Jets felt they needed to dump Herm's dumb a$$, and deservedly so, first to prove that Chad really did just suck all by himself, the same will need to be done with Sanchez, and deservedly so. Chad sucking never excused Herm's incompetence and Sanchez sucking doesn't excuse Schotty's.

[ZachEY]

The reality is, you'll never know until the change is made. Its quite clear this offense sucks. Scheme, design, play calling, etc. Its all really really bad. Sanchez and Schotty dont scare anyone in this league. In fact, I gaurantee that when an opposing D see's the Jets on the schedule they are licking their chops.

OC's are expendable. You can replace them like the wind. Unfortunately, QB's dont grow on trees. So while it may be obvious that Sanchez sucks, the chances of the Jets finding a better one are slim. And even if that players is better, are they going to be so much better that it makes a difference? I doubt it.

The unfortunate truth is, the Jets have a better chance of succeeding with Sanchez under a new OC than they do finding a major upgrade over Sanchez. If your name is not Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers or Rivers...it really doesnt matter.

Could the Jets get lucky and find the next one...sure. Problem is, 26 other teams are doing the same thing.

I think that while I agree with most of what you're saying, there's a mile wide gap between Sanchez and those other guys you mentioned. If without Schotty, Sanchez becomes a 2nd tier QB, then I think we're in good shape. I simply just don't see it.

Sanchez is no Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers or Rivers, but he's also no E. Manning, Schaub, Vick, Ryan, Hasselback, Stafford, Cutler, or Big Ben. He's no Fitzpatrick or Flacco or Bradford, either. He may not even be Jason Campbell or Rex Grossman.

[ZachEY]

Odds are they just both suck a$$, but the coach is a hell of a lot easier to move on from than the player, particularly when he has a history of failure that's twice as long with numerous other players. Just like the Jets felt they needed to dump Herm's dumb a$$, and deservedly so, first to prove that Chad really did just suck all by himself, the same will need to be done with Sanchez, and deservedly so. Chad sucking never excused Herm's incompetence and Sanchez sucking doesn't excuse Schotty's.

This is pretty much all you needed to say, and I agree.

Hopefully I'm wrong about Sanchez and Schotty's public execution turns into all he needed to become a 2nd or even 1st tier QB.

[Bleedin Green]

This is pretty much all you needed to say, and I agree.

Hopefully I'm wrong about Sanchez and Schotty's public execution turns into all he needed to become a 2nd or even 1st tier QB.

Perhaps, but I would think you should know better by now.

[JustInFudge]

I think that while I agree with most of what you're saying, there's a mile wide gap between Sanchez and those other guys you mentioned. If without Schotty, Sanchez becomes a 2nd tier QB, then I think we're in good shape. I simply just don't see it.

Sanchez is no Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers or Rivers, but he's also no E. Manning, Schaub, Vick, Ryan, Hasselback, Stafford, Cutler, or Big Ben. He's no Fitzpatrick or Flacco or Bradford, either. He may not even be Jason Campbell or Rex Grossman.

Thats where I disagree. I dont see anyone of those QB's being that much better than Sanchez. I think they all suck just the same and benefit from playing in a system that doesnt cripple the QB. Big Ben, Stafford...yeah, maybe they get the edge...but I fail to see the difference between him and the other ones you mentioned...and even Stafford has the luxury of being able to lob up a ball into triple coverage and have the best WR in the game go get it.

I'd be shocked if any of them were that much more successful than Sanchez in this system.

[Boozer76]

Then Woody needs to fire Tanny for not firing Rex for not firing Shotty.

Fire em all huh? Give me a break. You don't fire your OC 5 weeks into the season. That's an offseason move that's yet to be made.

At the very least they need to consider removing the playcalling responsibilities. Look, teams across the league are succeeding on offense with the new pussyfoot rules in place. Sanchez has shown in the past plenty of times that he can make plays when they are there for the taking. Our offensive gameplan has been predictable and stale as hell. Receivers are running easy routes, and frankly they are all ending up within a couple yards of each other. I have seen multiple plays where honestly I'm not even sure of what receiver a pass was intended for because they're so close to each other. Coaches have had their playcalling duties removed in season plenty of times. Parcells relieved Charlie Weis, Fassel relieved Sean Payton. It happens, and I'm beginning to think it needs to happen here.

[ZachEY]

Thats where I disagree. I dont see anyone of those QB's being that much better than Sanchez. I think they all suck just the same and benefit from playing in a system that doesnt cripple the QB. Big Ben, Stafford...yeah, maybe they get the edge...but I fail to see the difference between him and the other ones you mentioned...and even Stafford has the luxury of being able to lob up a ball into triple coverage and have the best WR in the game go get it.

I'd be shocked if any of them were that much more successful than Sanchez in this system.

Meh. I'm with you on the Schotty Sucks thing. But, I find it hard to believe he sucks to such epic proportions that Sanchez looks worse all those other QBs. I think it's easy to talk in hypotheticals, but all those guys are more productive, and while you can say we have the worst offense coordinator, we still have a ton of talent, and I refuse to believe that we're just playcalling away from being a top tier offense. That's just too simple.

[Bleedin Green]

Thats where I disagree. I dont see anyone of those QB's being that much better than Sanchez. I think they all suck just the same and benefit from playing in a system that doesnt cripple the QB. Big Ben, Stafford...yeah, maybe they get the edge...but I fail to see the difference between him and the other ones you mentioned...and even Stafford has the luxury of being able to lob up a ball into triple coverage and have the best WR in the game go get it.

I'd be shocked if any of them were that much more successful than Sanchez in this system.

This I do actually agree with. There are a lot of crappy QB's in this league, and Sanchez is without question one of them, but a lot of them aren't nearly as good as they get credit for, and probably not all that much better than our own little mexican. Stafford is perhaps the most hilarious one. If Sanchez makes this very same throw to any of his WRs, not only is it a guaranteed INT, he's getting crucified by every fan and media personality out there, and rightfully so. Because CJ can make that play it becomes the highlight of the week, but it doesn't in any way make Stafford a good QB.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d822c0e99/WK-4-Can-t-Miss-Play-Megatron-out-leaps-Cowboys

[The Crusher]

Ellis rushed for 136 yds with 5 yds per carry.

The O is awful, the Jets D bad

Alot of that came late in the game against a tired defense. Tired of 3 and outs that is.,

[Bleedin Green]

Meh. I'm with you on the Schotty Sucks thing. But, I find it hard to believe he sucks to such epic proportions that Sanchez looks worse all those other QBs. I think it's easy to talk in hypotheticals, but all those guys are more productive, and while you can say we have the worst offense coordinator, we still have a ton of talent, and I refuse to believe that we're just playcalling away from being a top tier offense. That's just too simple.

It's certainly far more than just an OC away, but that doesn't mean you aren't talking a significant difference between an OC who makes a bad situation even worse and an OC who can make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t. There are A LOT of bad QBs in the league these days, yet teams still manage to get something out of them and their offense. Even if a lot of them are better than Sanchez, the difference in their ability doesn't equal the difference in the offenses. Even Sanchez's biggest detractors can't possibly believe the 300 or so yard difference in the Jets and Miami's passing success against NE is really the difference in the sucktitude between him and that steaming pile of crap Henne. Henne isn't even that much better than you as an NFL QB. That's not to say the Jets don't need to be looking for a new QB, it just means that it's not impossible that they might still be able to pull off something remotely NFL-worthy in the meantime with their current one.

[The Crusher]

Thats the problem with the Jets. Rex still thinks this is 2009. His defense is nothing like it was in 2009. Its not even close. They arent as physical. They dont have the depth. But they still treat the offense like its 2009. Thats Rexs fault. He basically said he wont get involved with them except as a sounding board for ideas. Thats just such a bad approach to the team. His directive to his coaches is just "dont screw it up" and you get the horsesh!t we saw on the field today. Its time to let Sanchez sink or swim. You have a defense that cant rush the QB and cant cover for any period of time and you call short timing patterns because its safe. Brilliant. I especially loved the 3rd and 2 empty backfield shotgun passes early when the running game was actually working. It was the same crap they did back in 2009. Its like they need to prove a point that they can take an inaccurate QB and design a passing attack that makes the offense work. It killed the Jets today. Thus far you could make the excuse that the Jets faced some decent defenses, but today it was the same nonsense with an awful one. And the Jets got the same result. 166 passing yards against a team that would give up 300 yards to Rutgers. Either the OC or the QB needs to go. Maybe both have to go. If either was on any other team in the NFL we would pick on them like there was no tomorrow. Just because they wear green jerseys and shirts doesnt make them good.

Stuck out to me more than ever. It's a matter of six inches. Brady throws the ball where the receiver can grab it and run. Sanchez is always a little late and a little off so the receiver has to stop. Of course Brady is worlds better but this little difference hurts us. Our receivers have to stop to catch it.

[ZachEY]

This I do actually agree with. There are a lot of crappy QB's in this league, and Sanchez is without question one of them, but a lot of them aren't nearly as good as they get credit for, and probably not all that much better than our own little mexican. Stafford is perhaps the most hilarious one. If Sanchez makes this very same throw to any of his WRs, not only is it a guaranteed INT, he's getting crucified by every fan and media personality out there, and rightfully so. Because CJ can make that play it becomes the highlight of the week, but it doesn't in any way make Stafford a good QB.

http://www.nfl.com/v...t-leaps-Cowboys

I watched that whole game. Of course that's the play that will get remembered, but Stafford looks good otherwise. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

[The Crusher]

Something in spanish, so.....getting rid of Sanchez? Nah. I want to see what the kid does with a competent offensive gameplan first. If he still sucks chuck him to the curb.

His accuracy blows. You look nice today.

[JustInFudge]

Meh. I'm with you on the Schotty Sucks thing. But, I find it hard to believe he sucks to such epic proportions that Sanchez looks worse all those other QBs. I think it's easy to talk in hypotheticals, but all those guys are more productive, and while you can say we have the worst offense coordinator, we still have a ton of talent, and I refuse to believe that we're just playcalling away from being a top tier offense. That's just too simple.

Never said that...and I agree...its not just play calling. Do I think it could make difference. Yes. I do. I think the scheme of this offense is awful. It doesnt make any sense. You typically compliment a power running game with a vertical offense. Not compliment it with an short to intermediate pass attack that shortens the field and makes the defense only have to defend on 10-20% of the field on any given play.

And while Sanchez sucks, I truly dont think any of those other guys are that much better or even that more productive. Just because they have better stats, doesnt necessarily mean they were more productive. I think this is just a tough offense for a QB to thrive in. Bottom line and all those other guys that may be better than Sanchez, would probably have very similar issues in this offense.

This I do actually agree with. There are a lot of crappy QB's in this league, and Sanchez is without question one of them, but a lot of them aren't nearly as good as they get credit for, and probably not all that much better than our own little mexican. Stafford is perhaps the most hilarious one. If Sanchez makes this very same throw to any of his WRs, not only is it a guaranteed INT, he's getting crucified by every fan and media personality out there, and rightfully so. Because CJ can make that play it becomes the highlight of the week, but it doesn't in any way make Stafford a good QB.

http://www.nfl.com/v...t-leaps-Cowboys

Absolutely. The reality is, a couple of those Stafford TD's were literally moronic throws made great by an amazing WR.

[DT42]

This team is looking like a sub .500 team. They lost their identity on both sides of the ball.

[Sperm Edwards]

This I do actually agree with. There are a lot of crappy QB's in this league, and Sanchez is without question one of them, but a lot of them aren't nearly as good as they get credit for, and probably not all that much better than our own little mexican. Stafford is perhaps the most hilarious one. If Sanchez makes this very same throw to any of his WRs, not only is it a guaranteed INT, he's getting crucified by every fan and media personality out there, and rightfully so. Because CJ can make that play it becomes the highlight of the week, but it doesn't in any way make Stafford a good QB.

http://www.nfl.com/v...t-leaps-Cowboys

But when Sanchez has his numbers skewed after only 2-3 weeks because of two long plays on dumpoffs to LT, it is lumped with other averages to show how much Sanchez has improved.

I will say this: get rid of Schottenheimer. If Sanchez improves greatly it will bring me immense pleasure as a Jets fan. Even if he only improves due to experience and not due to the new OC, I have reached the point where I don't care.

They are both bad. Very bad. I would give Sanchez more slack because he's young and hasn't had nearly the years of opportunity Schottenheimer has. Also, one can always out-bid other teams for an OC upgrade. For QB you either have to luck into draft position or luck into a mediocre (or worse) prospect being better than anyone envisioned.

I don't see how a new OC is going to suddenly make Sanchez hit guys where he's supposed to, or cause receivers to catch easy passes (even if they're not thrown with great accuracy) but I would be willing to give that a shot. Sanchez is not improving under BS despite all the people claiming how "obvious" it was that he's made such strides, and with so much invested in him - not to mention what seems to be poor team morale as it pertains to the "system" - I think it's worth a shot.

[JustInFudge]

But when Sanchez has his numbers skewed after only 2-3 weeks because of two long plays on dumpoffs to LT, it is lumped with other averages to show how much Sanchez has improved.

I will say this: get rid of Schottenheimer. If Sanchez improves greatly it will bring me immense pleasure as a Jets fan. Even if he only improves due to experience and not due to the new OC, I have reached the point where I don't care.

They are both bad. Very bad. I would give Sanchez more slack because he's young and hasn't had nearly the years of opportunity Schottenheimer has. Also, one can always out-bid other teams for an OC upgrade. For QB you either have to luck into draft position or luck into a mediocre (or worse) prospect being better than anyone envisioned.

I don't see how a new OC is going to suddenly make Sanchez hit guys where he's supposed to, or cause receivers to catch easy passes (even if they're not thrown with great accuracy) but I would be willing to give that a shot. Sanchez is not improving under BS despite all the people claiming how "obvious" it was that he's made such strides, and with so much invested in him - not to mention what seems to be poor team morale as it pertains to the "system" - I think it's worth a shot.

That and I think at the end of the day, the combo of Schotty and Sanchez scares no one. Its awful together. A QB who cant scare defenders out of the box coupled with an OC who doesnt even attempt to scare defenders out of the box...its a combination that equates to the worst offense in the league. There isnt a single offense easier to prepare for than the Jets.

[Sperm Edwards]

That and I think at the end of the day, the combo of Schotty and Sanchez scares no one. Its awful together. A QB who cant scare defenders out of the box coupled with an OC who doesnt even attempt to scare defenders out of the box...its a combination that equares to the worst offense in the league.

I've already seen this offense before. Brooks Bollinger was the QB.

[Bleedin Green]

But when Sanchez has his numbers skewed after only 2-3 weeks because of two long plays on dumpoffs to LT, it is lumped with other averages to show how much Sanchez has improved.

I will say this: get rid of Schottenheimer. If Sanchez improves greatly it will bring me immense pleasure as a Jets fan. Even if he only improves due to experience and not due to the new OC, I have reached the point where I don't care.

They are both bad. Very bad. I would give Sanchez more slack because he's young and hasn't had nearly the years of opportunity Schottenheimer has. Also, one can always out-bid other teams for an OC upgrade. For QB you either have to luck into draft position or luck into a mediocre (or worse) prospect being better than anyone envisioned.

I don't see how a new OC is going to suddenly make Sanchez hit guys where he's supposed to, or cause receivers to catch easy passes (even if they're not thrown with great accuracy) but I would be willing to give that a shot. Sanchez is not improving under BS despite all the people claiming how "obvious" it was that he's made such strides, and with so much invested in him - not to mention what seems to be poor team morale as it pertains to the "system" - I think it's worth a shot.

I wouldn't disagree with this and the point (at least for me) isn't that Schotty's firing will be some sort of magical cure for Sanchez, but I also think it's certainly likely we do see some at least mild improvements across the board with a change at OC. Frankly, it couldn't get any worse. And sure, you cross your fingers and hope that it really suddenly does all come together at this point, but it's already been proven beyond any doubt that Schotty is never going to get it right, and he's already gone through 7-8 QBs on this team, so why the hell would you give him a shot at being anywhere near another one? Even if Sanchez will never be the answer, that doesn't change the fact that first and foremost, Schotty needs to go and needs to go now.

[Bleedin Green]

I've already seen this offense before. Brooks Bollinger was the QB.

Any drive that ends in a punt is a success!!!

[Sperm Edwards]

Any drive that ends in a punt is a success!!!

Please. Not on a Monday.

[Bleedin Green]

Please. Not on a Monday.

Deepest apologies.

[RutgersJetFan]

Stuck out to me more than ever. It's a matter of six inches. Brady throws the ball where the receiver can grab it and run. Sanchez is always a little late and a little off so the receiver has to stop. Of course Brady is worlds better but this little difference hurts us. Our receivers have to stop to catch it.

Pretty much sums it up. Even the gimmie to Kerley sucked a$$. Dude's got two steps, position, and eye contact right off his break, and the guy still had to dive for it. I'm still boggled that people were ripping Holmes for that one drop. The physics on that one seemed simple enough to me.

[SMC]

There is not a single unit that has played consistently well this season. Even ST considering Connelly has been a bad P. That's on Westoff since it was his decision to go elsewhere.

Sanchez sucks and Schitty does too. Schitty has to be fired now to finally decide on Sanchez.

Rex needs to be held accountable because the team facts start with him. D is bad, he's stuck with Schitty and pushed for ground & pound against the worst pass D in NFL

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

There is not a single unit that has played consistently well this season. Even ST considering Connelly has been a bad P. That's on Westoff since it was his decision to go elsewhere.

Sanchez sucks and Schitty does too. Schitty has to be fired now to finally decide on Sanchez.

Rex needs to be held accountable because the team facts start with him. D is bad, he's stuck with Schitty and pushed for ground & pound against the worst pass D in NFL

I really thought he was pushing that ground and pound stuff as part of some reverse psychology bs. I really didn't think we would make the leagues worst defense look legitimate.

[The Crusher]

Pretty much sums it up. Even the gimmie to Kerley sucked a$$. Dude's got two steps, position, and eye contact right off his break, and the guy still had to dive for it. I'm still boggled that people were ripping Holmes for that one drop. The physics on that one seemed simple enough to me.

It was on TV so I could watch and rewind the game for a change. Just amazing how many quick (run after) passes Sanchez put on the back hip. Small difference but six inches in front and a 4 yard catch can become a big play. Brady does alot of things well, but damn he puts it in the breadbasket 90% of the time and let's his receivers go full speed.

[Bleedin Green]

There is not a single unit that has played consistently well this season. Even ST considering Connelly has been a bad P. That's on Westoff since it was his decision to go elsewhere.

Sanchez sucks and Schitty does too. Schitty has to be fired now to finally decide on Sanchez.

Rex needs to be held accountable because the team facts start with him. D is bad, he's stuck with Schitty and pushed for ground & pound against the worst pass D in NFL

Meh, Conley has been fine. Nothing spectacular, but not horrible either. Consider that both he and Weatherford currently have the same exact net punting average (37.6 yds, tied for 20th in the league), so it's difficult to call that any sort of downgrade, and let's not forget that Weatherford has become notorious for late-season sucktitude, so this is him at his best, while it's possible Conley could still improve with time and experience. Not that he couldn't be easily cast aside and replaced, but it's not enough to change the fact that ST is the only unit undeserving of criticism at this point.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Yes, his accuracy isn't always spot on, but that's why you pay holmes $50 million, to make those difficult catches. Running full speed and catching a ball thrown behind you is very difficult, but if you want to be elite you have to make those. I distinctly remember Randy Moss making that catch one-handed even, multiple times. His accuracy hit connor in the hands, on what should have been a guaranteed 10+ yard first down, which would have kept the drive going. His accuracy hit plax right in the hands on what would have been another first down.

I definitely agree his accuracy can be a cause for concern, but when he actually got some time he threw a bullet to holmes on that beautiful td drive. Again, the play-calling has to be more consistent, we didn't see a single play with him rolling out, where he's usually the most accurate. If he were given time like Brady to just stand still flat-footed, we'd clearly be talking a bit differently. He needs work, but his team really needs to give him help and pick him up. Those couple three and out drops may seem like one play, but those are rhythm plays that could change the outlook for the rest of the game. I like the play call to connor if he catches it and he has shown some athletic ability, but it's 3rd and 2 and our ground game had been getting a huge push, stop trying to get cute. It's sh*t like that that annoys the hell out of me, our team clearly has the ability, but it seems as though we only play to 70% of our capability whereas teams like the pats get 100% or even play above their capacity. It's frustrating as hell.