Until Schottenheimer is fired

[jason423]

Hackett > sh*tty.

Anyone agrees?

Different. Im not sure if he was better. It was a different league back then and he did do what alot of teams were doing, but he also had better talent at the QB position in 2001 and 2002-2004 than the Jets have now and the results were about the same. Schottenhemier does look worse because the league has changed but the Jets offense is stuck in the mud. The league is now downfield pass heavy, but he is still doing this dink and dunk nonsense that is reserved for the worst offenses in the NFL. So I dont know if he is really worse or just looks it because the Jets offense is so far behind the rest of the modern NFL.

[NJ]

he (Hackett) also had better talent at the QB position in 2001 and 2002-2004 than the Jets have now and the results were about the same.

I dont know if he (Schottenheimer) is really worse or just looks it because the Jets offense is so far behind the rest of the modern NFL.

A.) Vinnie was a better QB than Sanchez is now .... but Chad Pennington physically makes all the throws and leads all the comeback drives that Sanchez has in 2 years of final 4 appearances?

B.) If the Jets offense is so far behind the rest of the modern NFL - who's the asshat that's been in charge of the offense for the last 6 years? That statement itself is an indictment.

[SMC]

Last week I conceded the Sanchez sucks argument and won't debate it. But I believe there is a fundamental problem with this team that might not be corrected.

Today, the Jets really lost me. This is the first time since Herm led Jets vs. Ravens (with the Jets starting Bollywood) that I thought the team used a strategy that had absolutely no possibility of being successful.

As Jason stated elsewhere, Rex is under the delusion that the D is 2009 or 2010, which it isn't. It has been bad this season. But the Jets used an offensive gameplan that made no effort to exploit the Pats' bad D, but instead, was to compliment the false notion that the Jets D is what it once was. What I find most troubling is that Sanchez in his presser and Rex in his said they liked the offensive gameplan.

Really? How could they be so ******* clueless? How could they possibly think that gameplan could work? Do they suck that bad at self evaluation?

[jason423]

A.) Vinnie was a better QB than Sanchez is now .... but Chad Pennington physically makes all the throws and leads all the comeback drives that Sanchez has in 2 years of final 4 appearances?

B.) If the Jets offense is so far behind the rest of the modern NFL - who's the asshat that's been in charge of the offense for the last 6 years? That statement itself is an indictment.

Chad clearly did not have the physical tools that Sanchez has, but he also doesnt have the downside that the bad Sanchez has. The bad Sanchez loses a game where the Jets run for 300 yards and give up nothing on defense. The bad Chad loses a game 13-6 with the offense just unable to score. I guess what it comes down to is that Sanchez can lose a game for the Jets while Chad wasnt going to lose a game, he just had no upside to be the reason they won a big game. As for part 2 alot of that answer is dependent on the QB. I dont know if the offense is this bad because the OC stinks or because the OC says the QB stinks so bad that he cant trust him. Hackett could trust Chad---he just chose not to. Maybe Schotty just doesnt trust Sanchez.

I will say this thought the early playcalls on 3rd down were all on a terrible OC. The overall gameplan may have been dictated by a terrible QB.

[greeniemeanie]

I honestly like Sanchez. I think he has the tools to be great. I hate Schotty. I think Schotty has proven with multiple personnel that he simply is not good at his job.

I remain steadfastly on the fire Schotty bandwagon, as I have been for years. I also hold my position that Sanchez is a winner, and will be a successful QB in the NFL.

I just hope it is with the Jets.

I will not have faith, nor be happy, until Schottenheimer is no longer with the Jets.

[jason423]

Last week I conceded the Sanchez sucks argument and won't debate it. But I believe there is a fundamental problem with this team that might not be corrected.

Today, the Jets really lost me. This is the first time since Herm led Jets vs. Ravens (with the Jets starting Bollywood) that I thought the team used a strategy that had absolutely no possibility of being successful.

As Jason stated elsewhere, Rex is under the delusion that the D is 2009 or 2010, which it isn't. It has been bad this season. But the Jets used an offensive gameplan that made no effort to exploit the Pats' bad D, but instead, was to compliment the false notion that the Jets D is what it once was. What I find most troubling is that Sanchez in his presser and Rex in his said they liked the offensive gameplan.

Really? How could they be so ******* clueless? How could they possibly think that gameplan could work? Do they suck that bad at self evaluation?

Thats the worst part about it. There have been times in the past (2004 really comes to mind) where I would get frustrated and say why cant the Jets just call a game to their strengths and force their will on the opposition. Its not that those teams necessarily game-planned for the opponent but they had stretches where they would gameplan based on fear of making a mistake and it would annoy me to no end. When your offense stinks you have to come up with game specific plans and not some universal plan that might work against a man to man, bump and run blitz heavy scheme, but the Jets just use this universal plan that stinks. The Raiders and Patriots made them look so bad because the Jets refused to adjust. They dont have the personnel to just run an offense and assume it will work against anyone. Brady can do that. Sanchez cant. But the Jets adjustments are putrid. You cant win like that unless you have good talent at the QB level. The Jets dont.

[greeniemeanie]

Thats the worst part about it. There have been times in the past (2004 really comes to mind) where I would get frustrated and say why cant the Jets just call a game to their strengths and force their will on the opposition. Its not that those teams necessarily game-planned for the opponent but they had stretches where they would gameplan based on fear of making a mistake and it would annoy me to no end. When your offense stinks you have to come up with game specific plans and not some universal plan that might work against a man to man, bump and run blitz heavy scheme, but the Jets just use this universal plan that stinks. The Raiders and Patriots made them look so bad because the Jets refused to adjust. They dont have the personnel to just run an offense and assume it will work against anyone. Brady can do that. Sanchez cant. But the Jets adjustments are putrid. You cant win like that unless you have good talent at the QB level. The Jets dont.

I agree with what you're saying on the surface, but I disagree with your premise.

What makes Brady so great is that he adjusts. It isn't that he runs the same offense, or rather same game plan every week. He adjusts on the fly. Sanchez doesn't. I believe Sanchez doesn't because he is not allowed to. However, if Sanchez could (were allowed to) adjust, we would see a very different offense. There is also the very real probability that Sanchez doesn't know how to adjust. Well, why would he? Who taught him how to adjust?

Remember Brees had 1 good year in SD when they already drafted his replacement. He exploded on to the scene in NO, after an injury, when Schotty had nothing to do with him.

Our offense sucks, and until schotty is ruled out, we are just regurgitating arguments.

[jason423]

I agree with what you're saying on the surface, but I disagree with your premise.

What makes Brady so great is that he adjusts. It isn't that he runs the same offense, or rather same game plan every week. He adjusts on the fly. Sanchez doesn't. I believe Sanchez doesn't because he is not allowed to. However, if Sanchez could (were allowed to) adjust, we would see a very different offense. There is also the very real probability that Sanchez doesn't know how to adjust. Well, why would he? Who taught him how to adjust?

Remember Brees had 1 good year in SD when they already drafted his replacement. He exploded on to the scene in NO, after an injury, when Schotty had nothing to do with him.

Our offense sucks, and until schotty is ruled out, we are just regurgitating arguments.

Im not sure that Brady really adjusts. The reason we beat them in the playoffs last season is because he refused to adjust. By the time he finally decided to hand the ball off it was too late. That doesnt mean he doesnt look for things to exploit (he was busy looking over photos on the sidelines while our guy just chills out and warms his arm up when the defense looks like it will force a punt), but 90% of the time I think the Pats offense is pretty much standard each and every week. They dare you to stop it and most cant. Teams that believe they have good QBs (Houston, Dallas, Giants, Colts, Eagles) play that way. Teams like the Jets should be game specific because they dont have the ability to be consistent.

[Ghost]

It's NOT Sanchez. Anyone who thinks so is completely blind.

[#27TheDominator]

I came on here and figured I would find this thread, but I'm shocked that it is this unanimous. Did Schottenheimer spit that ball up or was is Conner? Was it Burress? Was it Keller? Two of the first drives were kept from getting first downs because of easy balls that weren't caught. Talent is nice, but production is better and the Conner ball was a gimme. That had nothing to do with Schottenheimer. The Keller ball was a little tougher because it was 5 yards and Sanchez threw it a bit behind and as hard as he possibly could. Sure the team went into a shell after those two. Can you blame them? The punter didn't help much either. I'm about ready to try Matt Dodge.

[SenorGato]

I came on here and figured I would find this thread, but I'm shocked that it is this unanimous. Did Schottenheimer spit that ball up or was is Conner? Was it Burress? Was it Keller? Two of the first drives were kept from getting first downs because of easy balls that weren't caught. Talent is nice, but production is better and the Conner ball was a gimme. That had nothing to do with Schottenheimer. The Keller ball was a little tougher because it was 5 yards and Sanchez threw it a bit behind and as hard as he possibly could. Sure the team went into a shell after those two. Can you blame them? The punter didn't help much either. I'm about ready to try Matt Dodge.

We've seen in his overly long tenure here that his passing game playcalls and designs aren't meant to create completions or points.

[spjets]

I listen to NY am radio during the week; I know a bunch of Jet fans....but the only place I see/hear the fire schotty talk is here.

then you dont listen to NFL on sirius...i hear it all the time...

[GREENBEAN]

What stinks is Sanchez actually thrives with the intermediate type of passing game (12-25 yd passes) The pats have the worst D IN THE LEAGUE and instead of playing to our strengths, we had multiple motions in our backfield more times than I can recall. Fake reverses, throwing to John Connor, handing it to Connor on 2-9, having multiple players running 6 yd patterns on 3rd and 8. It's really quite ridiculous. We did not need trickery to beat this Pats team. We needed to play smashmouth lights out football. The only person Schotty is fooling with his over complicated play calls is himself and the Jets.

[MikeJetsWord]

What stinks is Sanchez actually thrives with the intermediate type of passing game (12-25 yd passes) The pats have the worst D IN THE LEAGUE and instead of playing to our strengths, we had multiple motions in our backfield more times than I can recall. Fake reverses, throwing to John Connor, handing it to Connor on 2-9, having multiple players running 6 yd patterns on 3rd and 8. It's really quite ridiculous. We did not need trickery to beat this Pats team. We needed to play smashmouth lights out football. The only person Schotty is fooling with his over complicated play calls is himself and the Jets.

This is absolutely correct. On every point. This is why the NYJ offense is incompetent.

[slats]

As Jason stated elsewhere, Rex is under the delusion that the D is 2009 or 2010, which it isn't. It has been bad this season. But the Jets used an offensive gameplan that made no effort to exploit the Pats' bad D, but instead, was to compliment the false notion that the Jets D is what it once was. What I find most troubling is that Sanchez in his presser and Rex in his said they liked the offensive gameplan.

Really? How could they be so ******* clueless? How could they possibly think that gameplan could work? Do they suck that bad at self evaluation?

The defense really isn't any worse. There's a symbiotic relationship between the offense and the defense, and this year the offense is not holding up it's end of the bargain at all. While they haven't been a productive unit the last couple years, they have managed first downs, and have done a very good job of churning up clock. That's critical to any defenses' success: keeping them off the field. No one's gaining any yards or scoring any points on you if you're standing on the sidelines. In '09 and '10, the Jets held the ball over 32 minutes a game for one of the best time of possession numbers in the league. This year they're holding the ball just over 28 minutes for one of the worst.

Basically they abandoned the only thing they were doing right in hopes being more explosive, but they've been explosive only in the way one might use that term to describe their irritable bowels.

The 3 & outs this year are an embarrassment. The playcalling is bad, the play designs are worse. Execution is a problem. The drops are a problem. But there's something inherently wrong with your offensive system if everyone of your receivers runs a 4 yard pattern on 3rd & 6.

Callahan's offensive line isn't getting the job done, and neither is Cavanaugh's QB. If they fired Schotty now, I really don't know who's supposed to step in and correct the problems. I'm at the point where I hope they clean house on that side of the ball at the end of the year.

[Lil Bit Special]

Coaches make the calls, its up to the players to make the plays.

And they arent. O line is getting Sanchez killed every week. O-line isnt opening any holes for the RB.

WR's arent getting open, cant catch, cant keep their feet inbounds. RB's cant find a hole, cant get outside, cant do anything.

And Taco... poor kid... decent talent with moments of greatness...but cant seem to pull it all together.

Plain and simple, our whole offense sucks. Coaching, preparation, execution... its all terrible. And add in our wonderful defense! 3 TD's! Held that potent offense to 30 points! Oh wait... thats not good. 50% 3rd down efficiency. Not good. But lets keep pretending everything wrong is about Shotty and not the entire team sucking and playing well below their talent levels. And that gets right to the core--- the head coach. Big mouth is a great cheerleader but a terrible head coach. We've won in spite of him. But he's got a big mouth so we love him!

[Integrity28]

If you watched the Packers and Falcons last night, you saw both teams, both offense and both defenses making adjustments in-game, on the moment, all game long... it was great.

Clifton goes down, and the Falcons defense immediately starts attacking the pass protection - they had Rodgers reeling for a while, until the Packers made adjustments of their own.

You could see the impact of game planning to exploit specific shortcomings of the opponent. When you watch the Jets play offense, and it goes bad, you can see what? Nothing... they come out, do one thing, then keep doing it and doing it and doing it... and occasionally they'll get a break that pumps up their confidence in what they are doing, but mostly... they keep running into the corner, like in a video game.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

Coaches make the calls, its up to the players to make the plays.

And they arent. O line is getting Sanchez killed every week. O-line isnt opening any holes for the RB.

WR's arent getting open, cant catch, cant keep their feet inbounds. RB's cant find a hole, cant get outside, cant do anything.

And Taco... poor kid... decent talent with moments of greatness...but cant seem to pull it all together.

Plain and simple, our whole offense sucks. Coaching, preparation, execution... its all terrible. And add in our wonderful defense! 3 TD's! Held that potent offense to 30 points! Oh wait... thats not good. 50% 3rd down efficiency. Not good. But lets keep pretending everything wrong is about Shotty and not the entire team sucking and playing well below their talent levels. And that gets right to the core--- the head coach. Big mouth is a great cheerleader but a terrible head coach. We've won in spite of him. But he's got a big mouth so we love him!

If we miss the playoffs the next two years, then ill worry about the HC. Right now we've had schitty around for too long. This offense is a shell of itself. We need some changes. As Optimus Prime said, the packers made adjustments when they needed to. As did the falcon. What adjustments did we make to try and exploit the leagues worst defense? Did we make ant adjustments in game. Outside of the long TD drive I didn't see anything good out of this offense. We don't know how to learn to adjust during the game. It's like we see one drive work so we erase it from our memory and do something terrible.

[JustInFudge]

Cam Newton:

is bigger than Mark Sanchez.

is taller than Mark Sanchez.

is faster than Mark Sanchez.

has a better arm than Sanchez.

is a more versatile offensive talent than Mark Sanchez.

is a national championship winner.

was the bigger half of the two man team (Newton and Fairley) that got Auburn the NC.

played in pro style college offense like Mark Sanchez.

I can probably keep going...Then again, I know people had their questions about Newton as a passer. It was mostly bs, except for your usual QB prospect questions.

Lots of good stuff in this thread...truly a good read...but this? Come'on on man? There was nothing pro-style about Auburns offense with Cam Newton at the helm.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

Lots of good stuff in this thread...truly a good read...but this? Come'on on man? There was nothing pro-style about Auburns offense with Cam Newton at the helm.

He obviously didn't see this:

[Jetsfan80]

Lots of good stuff in this thread...truly a good read...but this? Come'on on man? There was nothing pro-style about Auburns offense with Cam Newton at the helm.

Auburn passing offense:

Step 1: Throw to first read.

Step 2: If first read not open, run.

Step 3: Profit.

[jason423]

The defense really isn't any worse. There's a symbiotic relationship between the offense and the defense, and this year the offense is not holding up it's end of the bargain at all. While they haven't been a productive unit the last couple years, they have managed first downs, and have done a very good job of churning up clock. That's critical to any defenses' success: keeping them off the field. No one's gaining any yards or scoring any points on you if you're standing on the sidelines. In '09 and '10, the Jets held the ball over 32 minutes a game for one of the best time of possession numbers in the league. This year they're holding the ball just over 28 minutes for one of the worst.

Thats all well and good to explain wearing down late in games, but the Jets first quarter defense has been bad. In 2009 the Jets gave up 2.8 points in the first quarter, with 12 of 16 teams being held to 3 or less. In 2010 it rose to 3.6, with 11 opponents held to 3 or less. In 2011 its 6.2 with 4 of 5 scoring at least 7 on the defense.

In 2009 our first half defense allowed an average of 6.3 points with 9 offenses held to 3 or less points. That rose to 9 points in 2010 and the median was much higher, over 8 points. We are now up to 10.6 points this year and only the Jags have been held under 10.

Thats not just on the offense. Thats a defense that isnt as effective anymore. Its been trending down since 2009. They smothered teams in 2009. They did it enough in 2010 to at least set the stage for a physical game regardless of the offense. But the defense is getting blown off the ball early in games and that has nothing to do with the QB or OC.

[jgb]

Mason Burress and Holmes and Holmes all went to Rex to complain about the ineptitude of Brian Schottenheimer--all at separate times this week. Listen to sportsradio and you'll hear a ton of Jets callers calling for Schotty's head. I always blamed the players and their execution. But now I've seen the light. Schotty has to be called on his horrific scheming and playcalling. Eight three and outs against the statiscally worst defense in the entire NFL. An insane first quarter TD drought that actually broke NFL records. Superstars and 1st rounders galore on his offense. And they grind out play after play of garbage. Brett Favre basically tossed the playbook when he came here. And now three vet receivers have openly questioned the scheme. It's Brian Schottenheimer, folks. That's all there is to it.

i got nothing to add. to the schotty defenders: even if you think he's being unfairly scapegoated, sometimes you just need a change to provide a spark. no matter your feelings on schott, it's time for that change.

[gangreenman]

The defense is still good, but nowhere near the dominant force it was the last two years. The offense? Worst Ive ever seen it, save the '05 season (i think) when we were playing with a backup c, third string qb, and a whole bunch of garbage...

Problem is, we have about 5 pro bowlers on offense, and about 7 or 8 first rounders. And all of them are active and playing, and we're still about just as pathetic. As a general rule, if the talent is clearly there, but the results are the complete opposite, that falls on coaching. Schott needs to go.

[Meshawn Johnson19]

"Haavad" Fitzpatrick > our USC Trojan right now.

[Smashmouth]

If Miami's offense outperforms the Jets' offense next week, Schottenheimer shouldn't be fired - he should be killed.

Post of the year !!

[jgb]

If we miss the playoffs the next two years, then ill worry about the HC. Right now we've had schitty around for too long. This offense is a shell of itself. We need some changes. As Optimus Prime said, the packers made adjustments when they needed to. As did the falcon. What adjustments did we make to try and exploit the leagues worst defense? Did we make ant adjustments in game. Outside of the long TD drive I didn't see anything good out of this offense. We don't know how to learn to adjust during the game. It's like we see one drive work so we erase it from our memory and do something terrible.

it's because the opposing team would expect us to stick with what works and schitty is obsessed with outfoxing everyone even if it means doing stuff that makes no sense to any rational mind.

[jack48]

Jets need an OC that can play to Sanchez strength, he's limited as a QB IMO but the play-calling doesn't help him succeeded

I used to get furious at Hackett until I realized how extremely limited he was by Chad. But I do not feel that way about Schitty. Sanchez can make the throws. Dinking and dunking with him makes no sense. A short QB throwing inside slants will get picked more than if he throws downfield.