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Boston Herald: Theo Epstein on brink of joining Cubs

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Actually, Cashman suckered the entire Red Sox organization on Crawford.

Not really. Crawford was going to get money from someone. And everyone does this. Theo did it to Cashman on Rivera. They've done it a number of times on each other.

Try reading an article not published in NY.

http://www.nesn.com/...l-crawford.html

Cashman's own quotes:

"At the end of the day, I don't know if I had any effect on what took place," he said. "I doubt I did."

"I know Mariano ended up with a second year because they were interested in Mariano," Cashman said. "That's just the way the world works."

Edited by CrazyCarl40

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I'm pretty sure that's not what I said at all. Did you fail reading comprehension in elementary school? No where did I say they didn't care about the money, but not many guys on that team were making gobs of it. A lot of them were barely hanging on in the bigs. Millar, Mueller, Bellhorn. The Sox in 2004 were largely made up of grinders than prima donnas. They were also playing for more in 2004 with the whole curse thing and stuff.

C'mon Dude. The Sox had the 2nd highest payroll in the majors in 2004 at 125 million. No one on that team was eating at soup kitchens pal. You're delusional if you really believe that noble purpose BS.

They were again #2 in 2007 at 143 million, 193 if you include the 50 million they paid to talk to Dice K.

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Not really. Crawford was going to get money from someone. And everyone does this. Theo did it to Cashman on Rivera. They've done it a number of times on each other.

Try reading an article not published in NY.

http://www.nesn.com/...l-crawford.html

Cashman's own quotes:

"At the end of the day, I don't know if I had any effect on what took place," he said. "I doubt I did."

"I know Mariano ended up with a second year because they were interested in Mariano," Cashman said. "That's just the way the world works."

I've read many articles not published in NY. This one is good:

http://www.nesn.com/2011/01/2011-red-sox-will-challenge-1927-yankees-for-title-of-greatest-team-in-major-league-history.html

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Not really. Crawford was going to get money from someone. And everyone does this. Theo did it to Cashman on Rivera. They've done it a number of times on each other.

Try reading an article not published in NY.

http://www.nesn.com/...l-crawford.html

Cashman's own quotes:

"At the end of the day, I don't know if I had any effect on what took place," he said. "I doubt I did."

"I know Mariano ended up with a second year because they were interested in Mariano," Cashman said. "That's just the way the world works."

He was going to bet the money, not sure he would of got the type of money and years he did get though... especially considering the Yankees were not seriously considering signing him.

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I beginning to think Larry Lucchino and Randy Levine are the same person. Major front office douche bags fan bases hate.

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C'mon Dude. The Sox had the 2nd highest payroll in the majors in 2004 at 125 million. No one on that team was eating at soup kitchens pal. You're delusional if you really believe that noble purpose BS.

They were again #2 in 2007 at 143 million, 193 if you include the 50 million they paid to talk to Dice K.

Manny made 22.5 of that 125. Pedro made 17.5. Schilling made 12. Damon 8. Nomar 11.5.

Alot of the 2004 guys were lunch pail guys. I think I know a little bit more about the Sox than you do.

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He was going to bet the money, not sure he would of got the type of money and years he did get though... especially considering the Yankees were not seriously considering signing him.

Well it's not like the Sox were seriously considering Rivera either. He was going back to the Yanks no matter what.

I beginning to think Larry Lucchino and Randy Levine are the same person. Major front office douche bags fan bases hate.

I'd agree with this.

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I beginning to think Larry Lucchino and Randy Levine are the same person. Major front office douche bags fan bases hate.

Words can not express the overwhelming level of misfortune I would like to see heaped upon Randy Levine.

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C'mon Dude. The Sox had the 2nd highest payroll in the majors in 2004 at 125 million. No one on that team was eating at soup kitchens pal. You're delusional if you really believe that noble purpose BS.

They were again #2 in 2007 at 143 million, 193 if you include the 50 million they paid to talk to Dice K.

As CC showed, there were some lunch pail guys much like the late 90s Yankees.

Millar, Mueller, Bellhorn, Pokey Reese, Mienkewitz and Roberts.

No athlete is starving, but we were not fielding an all-star team either.

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The latest spin: Crawford is the only guy that made an impassioned speech to his teammates during the stretch run...Imploring them to get it together....alas, it fell on deaf ears. I can't make this sh*t up. How can anyone beleive a word that comes out of the front office? Can they suck any worse at spinning a story? This is Boston, not San Diego, azzholes. Anyway, let me interpret for you:

We are stuck with Crawford so lets see if we can sway fan sentiment about him. We are laying the foundation for the exile of said players who were drinking and eating chicken We are especially interersted in tying Epsten and Lacky together so everyone will see Esptein sucks and boy won't he suck worse if he doesn't trade with us for Lacky! It's well known that Youkilis is an arsehole...but we always tried to hide it. We want to get rid of him too....so we leak stories!!! I hope everyone reads the stories on NESN and the Globe. They are impartial. Pay no attention to the fact that Red Sox have a financial partnership with these entities. No....c'mon, we encourage unbiased reporting! :animal0029:

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The latest spin: Crawford is the only guy that made an impassioned speech to his teammates during the stretch run...Imploring them to get it together....alas, it fell on deaf ears. I can't make this sh*t up. How can anyone beleive a word that comes out of the front office? Can they suck any worse at spinning a story? This is Boston, not San Diego, azzholes. Anyway, let me interpret for you:

We are stuck with Crawford so lets see if we can sway fan sentiment about him. We are laying the foundation for the exile of said players who were drinking and eating chicken We are especially interersted in tying Epsten and Lacky together so everyone will see Esptein sucks and boy won't he suck worse if he doesn't trade with us for Lacky! It's well known that Youkilis is an arsehole...but we always tried to hide it. We want to get rid of him too....so we leak stories!!! I hope everyone reads the stories on NESN and the Globe. They are impartial. Pay no attention to the fact that Red Sox have a financial partnership with these entities. No....c'mon, we encourage unbiased reporting! :animal0029:

The New York Times owns the Boston Globe and 7% of the Fenway Sports Group (FSG). FSG owns the Red Sox, Fenway Park and 80% of NESN. The Globe & NESN are basically mouthpieces for Red Sox management.

Needless to say the past 2 weeks have been a trainwreck for the Red Sox. The Globe article that came out the other day has backfired in a big way for Ownership.

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The latest spin: Crawford is the only guy that made an impassioned speech to his teammates during the stretch run...Imploring them to get it together....alas, it fell on deaf ears. I can't make this sh*t up. How can anyone beleive a word that comes out of the front office? Can they suck any worse at spinning a story? This is Boston, not San Diego, azzholes. Anyway, let me interpret for you:

We are stuck with Crawford so lets see if we can sway fan sentiment about him. We are laying the foundation for the exile of said players who were drinking and eating chicken We are especially interersted in tying Epsten and Lacky together so everyone will see Esptein sucks and boy won't he suck worse if he doesn't trade with us for Lacky! It's well known that Youkilis is an arsehole...but we always tried to hide it. We want to get rid of him too....so we leak stories!!! I hope everyone reads the stories on NESN and the Globe. They are impartial. Pay no attention to the fact that Red Sox have a financial partnership with these entities. No....c'mon, we encourage unbiased reporting! :animal0029:

While the ownership clearly have taken on a smear campaign and should be ripped for it, this team collapsed.

Francona is to blame.

Theo is to blame.

The players are to blame.

I do not think it the Boston ownership. Fingers always get pointed.

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2004 they did shots before one game to loosen up. 2011 they drank every day and their guts showed their dedication. No one would ever consider questioning the dedication of the players in 2004.

Believe it or not, I think this team misses a guy like Curt Schilling. Say what you will, but he would not have stood for what happened this season.

If my son and son=in-law were in Iraq, I would be a little tense. This unloading on Francona is disgraceful.

So when the Sawx were drinking shots before games 4 to 7 in the 2004 ALCS, that was bad management...by Terry Francona? The same people telling us how great he was(Lupica, Shaughnesssy, Gammons, etc.) are now torching the guy because he (like a lot of people and old athletes in particular) has issues with pain. And his marriage broke up. Good luck filling that job, and hope you are happy poormouthing a man who by most accounts is a nice man, and who helped you break an 86-year drought.

As to starters goofing off during games they don’t start, since SABR data entry became key, starters no longer are trusted to chart pitchers the day after they start. Most next day starters now get sent home early or are flown ahead the day before they pitch. And some ace starters are given a total day off from the ballpark in certain situations. If they have a few ales later in the game when they aren’t pitching, it’s not a big deal at all. Heck, most MLB ballparks are practically 3D beer commercials anyway. And beer is also available-shocking! But when you live in Massholia where you can only get a drink on Sundays and after 1 AM at the Kennedy compound, what can you expect from whiny hypocrites except this.

This bullsh*t image was only an image that the Sawx organization marketed and sold as good for business, and their lackeys in the media pushed. it It’s still 25 pro ballplayers, not a collection of saints. By the same token the media sells every championship team as gritty and having great chemistry.Yet in 2004 Kevin Millar was not an MLBPA union member because he was a scab during a work stoppage. Fair bet some of his teammates did not love him. It’s usually nonsense simply because in any workplace not everyone is friends with everyone else. And we have yet to hear about any last place team with great chemistry. If your choice is a great player who has the personality of a urinal cake and wonderful human being who cannot play, any team is going to choose the a$$hole. A team of 25 Barry Bonds is going to beat the sh*t out of one having 25 David Ecksteins.Billy Martin was quoted as saying he would play an outfield of Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini if they could all hit. It’s closer to the truth than Gammons/Lupica nonsense about gritty chemistry guys.

Again, good luck filling your management positions after taking a torch to Francona's reputation.

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Red Sox reach new lows with Francona

Mark Kriegel

Updated Oct 13, 2011 1:24 PM ET

For generations, Red Sox fans took comfort in the fact that, whatever chronic ills beset their franchise, the men who owned and ran their team comprised an entity more benign and virtuous than that Evil Empire, the Yankees.

Now it turns out the guys who run the Red Sox are even worse.

At least George Steinbrenner had the decency (a term used advisedly in this context) to belittle and badmouth his recently departed managers on the record. I recall, most famously, the press release in which Steinbrenner wished the very best for Buck Showalter — the manager who guided the Yankees back to the postseason after a 13-year hiatus — and his “fine little family.”

Unfortunately, what the Red Sox have just done to Terry Francona lacks the unintended, over-the-top hilarity that characterized so much of George Steinbrenner’s regime. Rather, this is mere treachery.

An article in Wednesday’s edition of the Boston Globe quoted unnamed sources saying that Terry Francona — who only managed Boston to a couple of World Series titles after, oh, an 86-year drought — “appeared distracted during the season by issues related to his troubled marriage and to his health.”

More specifically, and insidiously, it says “team sources” — those famously enlightened owners, you think? — “expressed concern that Francona’s performance may have been affected by his use of pain medication.”

The manager has had several knee surgeries, and at least five procedures to drain blood from the joint since surgery last October. That much is public knowledge. But the anonymous sources could not offer a single fact — much less an anecdote — to support the implication that Francona is addicted, or that his baseball judgment was impaired.

Francona lost control of his clubhouse; that much is obvious. I’m not arguing he shouldn’t have been let go or forced to resign after a historic collapse. After all, his $161 million team enjoyed a nine-game lead over the Rays on Sept. 3. Nor am I not endorsing that artificial distinction between what happens on the field and off. If the Red Sox collapsed because Francona was a popping pills or reeling from his divorce, then the issue is germane and he had to go. But lacking proof, the mere suggestion of a scandal is, in effect, scandalous.

I am loath to police other sportswriters, particularly men and women who, as opposed to columnists like myself, still do actual reporting for a living. Truth is, I’m sure I’d have gone with the story, too. My only real beef with the reporter, Bob Hohler, (though perhaps his editors bear some responsibility, too) is his ranking of Francona’s possible “distractions.” The “troubled marriage” is first mentioned in the eighth paragraph. “Pain medication” surfaces in the 11th. But it’s not until way down in the 35th paragraph where you finally learn that Francona’s son and son-in-law are serving in Afghanistan. That’s another possible distraction, of course. It’s just not as sexy as divorce and pill-popping.

Fact: Francona’s knee had been bothering him all season.

Fact: Francona spent the entire season living in a hotel.

Fact: As of late August, the Red Sox were still a first-place team on pace for a 100-win season.

So what happened? Did the players suddenly start taking advantage of a guy who had been going through a divorce? Did the frontline starting pitchers — Josh Beckett, Jon Lester and John Lackey — start eating fried chicken and drinking beer during games because they suddenly realized their pill-popping manager had no authority? (I love that one, as ballplayers eat fried stuff and guzzle beer every season). Of course not. The manager didn’t help things, of course. But that’s not why the Red Sox didn’t make the playoffs. The Red Sox lost because most of their expensive players choked.

The Globe cites the fried chicken and the beer as examples of overindulged, overpaid, underpoliced stars (a former star in Lackey’s case). Just the same, what was a manager to do when an owner like John Henry is trying to appease the players with $300 headphones and a night on his yacht?

If only Francona’s guys could have been more like, say, Jonathan Papelbon, whom Hohler notes as being “among the team’s hardest workers.”

Then again, the last time I saw Papelbon he was blowing a save on the last night of the regular season.

A bad night. Could have been worse. Most of Boston’s other stars had a bad month. Lackey had a 9.13 ERA in September. Carl Crawford hit .264, and J.D. Drew hit .267. David Ortiz managed all of one home run.

Steinbrenner might not have fired them. But at least he would have called them out by name.

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While the ownership clearly have taken on a smear campaign and should be ripped for it, this team collapsed.

Francona is to blame.

Theo is to blame.

The players are to blame.

I do not think it the Boston ownership. Fingers always get pointed.

Everyone is to blame - ESPECIALLY THE OWNERS! It baffles me how fans can continually be okay with being made fools of by Larry Lucchino and company. The owners have been manipulative, underhanded, greedy, creepy pukes since the day they were approved - actually hand picked by the commisioner. It stunk from the beginning and it stinks now. They are despicible. Period.

And Bugg, these digusting "leaks" (by design to their favorite mouth pieces) have been going on since they became owners. The blind RSN faithful just didn't get it. Some of them do now. Good. They are despicible.

Edited by Garb

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As CC showed, there were some lunch pail guys much like the late 90s Yankees.

Millar, Mueller, Bellhorn, Pokey Reese, Mienkewitz and Roberts.

No athlete is starving, but we were not fielding an all-star team either.

A huge payroll is a huge payroll

You can't pick out a few players and say "they made all the $$$$$"

You Sawx fans sure can spin

Lunch pail team my a$$$, 2nd highest payroll in the major leagues is more like it

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...and don't forget, Manny, Pedro, Wakefield, Lowe, Veritek, Damon, Garciaparra, Youkilis (countless of guys that were traded away) - were Duquette guys! Duquette has as much to do with the 2004 Championship as Esptein, Lyin' Larry, Stick Nerd Henry and gay-boy Werner.

Every team could use those grittty "lunch pail" guys....and every team needs the Manny's, Pedros and Curts too.

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John Henry called in to 98.5 and is getting crushed by the hosts. He is making excuses for everything. For those of you not in Mass, 98.5 is the sports radio station in town that doesn't carry the Red Sox.

Edited by Gainzo

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The ownership just needs to STFU already. At least a lot of the "fans" will fall of the bandwagon with some of this BS.

You should be thankful you don't live in Boston. Henry showing up at the radio station was embarrassing. He was on air for nearly 2 hours and sounded like an idiot. As you said, ownership just needs to STFU.

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Henry said "I didn't want to sign Carl Crawford"

Carl should feel warm and fuzzy back at 'ol Fenway next spring....hahahahahahahahaha

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