Do these critics still wanna say Sanchez "hasn't improved"?

[SMC]

Well according to FO, Sanchez is now 24th in DYAR and 26th in DVOA. The numbers suggest he hasn't improved. Schottenheimer will be the fall guy this year. We'll see if a change in offensive philosophy can get the most out of Sanchez.

Yes, but I'd like to to wait for FO's numbers at the end of the season. This weekly temperature take means nothing more than a snapshot. After 16 games we'll get a better barometer.

That said, OCs are always the fall guy. It's actually the norm. Again, I go back to Coughlin first stripping OC Hufnagel of his playcalling duty and then firing him because Eli was not playing well.

[CTM]

The bottom line is that the sides have been drawn with Sanchez.

I'm not on a side other then reality.. i like the kid and think he has potential, further, as a jets fan, I'd l<3 to see him lighting up the league a aaron rodgers does.. Unfortunately, the reality is that he's behind where any reasonable person would hope he'd be at this point. Does that mean he sucks and will never be good? Of course not, it just means the potential for some kind of massive turnaround is declining..

[SMC]

I'm not on a side other then reality.. i like the kid and think he has potential, further, as a jets fan, I'd l<3 to see him lighting up the league a aaron rodgers does.. Unfortunately, the reality is that he's behind where any reasonable person would hope he'd be at this point. Does that mean he sucks and will never be good? Of course not, it just means the potential for some kind of massive turnaround is declining..

My problem is with the notion that he needs a "massive turnaround." In Year 3 he'll likely end up with a QBR in the 80s and 20+ TDs, after his 2nd yr with a QBR in the 70s and a high teens TD, following a rookie yr of QBR in 60s and 12 TDs. That's a steady uptick.

Is it unreasonable to believe that in yr 4 he'll continue his steady uptick to a QBR in the 90s with a high 20s TDs?

Further, with respect to him being "behind where any reasonable person would hope he'd be at this point," that hope was premised on constant variables that haven't been there. Strong running game and good protection. We would hope that if everything stayed the same he would me much better. BUT, everything didn't stay the same.

[CTM]

My problem is with the notion that he needs a "massive turnaround." In Year 3 he'll likely end up with a QBR in the 80s and 20+ TDs, after his 2nd yr with a QBR in the 70s and a high teens TD, following a rookie yr of QBR in 60s and 12 TDs. That's a steady uptick.

Is it unreasonable to believe that in yr 4 he'll continue his steady uptick to a QBR in the 90s with a high 20s TDs?

Further, with respect to him being "behind where any reasonable person would hope he'd be at this point," that hope was premised on constant variables that haven't been there. Strong running game and good protection. We would hope that if everything stayed the same he would me much better. BUT, everything didn't stay the same.

but those same variables are the only thing that kept him from getting benched and this being a moot point.. now he's in a situation more similiar to what most young qb's are faced with

imo, by year 3 you want to see something click that i haven't seen yet. Even with "average" stats, his variance drive to drive is huge.. Monday night he looked completely lost (read:like a rookie) for almost the entire first half.. again none of this condemns him to being a long term failure, but the signs are starting to crop up

[SMC]

but those same variables are the only thing that kept him from getting benched and this being a moot point.. now he's in a situation more similiar to what most young qb's are faced with

imo, by year 3 you want to see something click that i haven't seen yet. Even with "average" stats, his variance drive to drive is huge.. Monday night he looked completely lost (read:like a rookie) for almost the entire first half.. again none of this condemns him to being a long term failure, but the signs are starting to crop up

I don't disagree on the variance, which is troubling, but the variables can't be ignored. A crappy running game and crappy protection are not a "similar" situation to what most young QBs face today. That stopped in the David Carr era.

That said, I agree that there hasn't been the "click" yet, but the crappy run game & crappy protection has retarded his growth, but he still his has shown an improvement in his numbers from last year. THAT gives me hope that he has a change to further improve.

[JoeWillie]

I'm not on a side other then reality.. i like the kid and think he has potential, further, as a jets fan, I'd l<3 to see him lighting up the league a aaron rodgers does.. Unfortunately, the reality is that he's behind where any reasonable person would hope he'd be at this point. Does that mean he sucks and will never be good? Of course not, it just means the potential for some kind of massive turnaround is declining..

With all due respect, your "reality" is just "your version of reality".

In YOUR mind, he may be "behind where any reasonable person would hope he'd be at this point".

That doesn't make the statement any more true.

From my perspective, I'd say he's progressed pretty well for any young QB drafted in the 1st round. Can he be better? Sure. So can Josh Freeman, Matt Stafford, Jay Cutler, or any other guy.

But has there ben any other QB drafted in the last 5 years that has played like Sanchez when it matters most, in the post-season. 4 road playoff wins and 2 Championship Games games all by the age of 24?

Do you perhaps allow for the fact that maybe you're expectations are just a bit higher than a reasonable person should have?

[CTM]

I don't disagree on the variance, which is troubling, but the variables can't be ignored. A crappy running game and crappy protection are not a "similar" situation to what most young QBs face today. That stopped in the David Carr era.

the protection is no worse then what rothilisberger has regularly gotten the last few years, and some of the running games troubles directly relate to the lack of respect given to sanchez... cam newton was throwing for a ton of yards when defenses were keying run on Carolina

[Bleedin Green]

Yes, but I'd like to to wait for FO's numbers at the end of the season. This weekly temperature take means nothing more than a snapshot. After 16 games we'll get a better barometer.

That said, OCs are always the fall guy. It's actually the norm. Again, I go back to Coughlin first stripping OC Hufnagel of his playcalling duty and then firing him because Eli was not playing well.

I don't really think you qualify as a "fall guy" when you get fired after sucking at your job for 6 years.

[Matt39]

You'd think the Panthers were 5-1 with the Cam coverage

[CTM]

With all due respect, your "reality" is just "your version of reality".

In YOUR mind, he may be "behind where any reasonable person would hope he'd be at this point".

That doesn't make the statement any more true.

From my perspective, I'd say he's progressed pretty well for any young QB drafted in the 1st round. Can he be better? Sure. So can Josh Freeman, Matt Stafford, Jay Cutler, or any other guy.

But has there ben any other QB drafted in the last 5 years that has played like Sanchez when it matters most, in the post-season. 4 road playoff wins and 2 Championship Games games all by the age of 24?

Do you perhaps allow for the fact that maybe you're expectations are just a bit higher than a reasonable person should have?

No, he was drafted fourth overall.. If he's going to ascend to elite status, you'd hope to see signs by now.. (like stafford shows)... That's what were talking about right? Sanchez becoming a top QB? If all of this arguing is about exactly how average he'll be, it's kind of silly..

[SMC]

No, he was drafted fourth overall.. If he's going to ascend to elite status, you'd hope to see signs by now.. (like stafford shows)... That's what were talking about right? Sanchez becoming a top QB? If all of this arguing is about exactly how average he'll be, it's kind of silly..

*cough*Megatron*cough*

And, he has shown signs, in the postseason. Against the Texans with no TOs and down 4 with a little over a minute left. It troubles me that what Sanchez has done exceptionally well gets ignored.

[SMC]

I don't really think you qualify as a "fall guy" when you get fired after sucking at your job for 6 years.

I was being kind to Schitty. If his name was Brian Smith and Rex wasn't such a 1 dimensional HC, he would've been canned a long time ago.

[Matt39]

This certainly isnt helping Sanchez, either

- Shonn Greene had an ‘Elusive Rating’ of 0 after picking up just 2.19 yards after contact, and forcing no missed tackles.

[JoeWillie]

No, he was drafted fourth overall.. If he's going to ascend to elite status, you'd hope to see signs by now.. (like stafford shows)... That's what were talking about right? Sanchez becoming a top QB? If all of this arguing is about exactly how average he'll be, it's kind of silly..

You continue to dismiss the best part of this QB's play, which is his post season success, because doing so helps support your argument.

You want to judge players by numbers.

I judge QB's by winning and how he plays when it counts most, and in the post season, even when the Jets have lost, he's played very well.

My QB doesn't need to statistically be the best. He doesn't even need to be in the Top 10. He only needs to lead the team to wins, and he has done that over his first two years.

It's about winning championships, not throwing for 400 yards, or 60% completion percentages.

That said, even if you want to JUST go by the numbers, Sanchez HAS improved, year over year.

That IS reality.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

[CTM]

I dismiss it cause it's an anomoly.. 4 games in which he played above average (and we won with good defense and running) does not outweigh 38 games of below average play

and tbh, what he did that was most shocking was not lose any of those games.. It's not like he went out there and had dominant performances

[JustInFudge]

You continue to dismiss the best part of this QB's play, which is his post season success, because doing so helps support your argument.

You want to judge players by numbers.

I judge QB's by winning and how he plays when it counts most, and in the post season, even when the Jets have lost, he's played very well.

My QB doesn't need to statistically be the best. He doesn't even need to be in the Top 10. He only needs to lead the team to wins, and he has done that over his first two years.

It's about winning championships, not throwing for 400 yards, or 60% completion percentages.

That said, even if you want to JUST go by the numbers, Sanchez HAS improved, year over year.

That IS reality.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

So you are happy with his progress and he's met your expectations?

[CTM]

And the whole thing about sanchez getting a boost due to w/l is something I can't subscribe to given the fact that he's had a top defense, s/t's and running game for the majority of his career in support

[SMC]

I dismiss it cause it's an anomoly.. 4 games in which he played above average (and we won with good defense and running) does not outweigh 38 games of below average play

and tbh, what he did that was most shocking was not lose any of those games.. It's not like he went out there and had dominant performances

But an anomoly is a sign!!!

[Bleedin Green]

*cough*Megatron*cough*

And, he has shown signs, in the postseason. Against the Texans with no TOs and down 4 with a little over a minute left. It troubles me that what Sanchez has done exceptionally well gets ignored.

Yeah, while I agree Sanchez has plenty of work to be done, Stafford is so vastly overrated it's not even funny. Every time I watch him play I come away extremely unimpressed by a guy who gets bailed out from a lot of REALLY stupid decisions by guys like Johnson and Pettigrew. Even if they ended up just as successful, Sanchez would be crucified if he made some of those same throws. Let's be honest, it's no coincidence that every time Stafford gets hurt his nobody backups manage to come in and put up some just fine numbers themselves and I don't think anyone is about to argue that Shaun Hill and Drew Stanton don't completely suck a$$.

[Bleedin Green]

I was being kind to Schitty. If his name was Brian Smith and Rex wasn't such a 1 dimensional HC, he would've been canned a long time ago.

Troof.

[Bleedin Green]

I dismiss it cause it's an anomoly.. 4 games in which he played above average (and we won with good defense and running) does not outweigh 38 games of below average play

and tbh, what he did that was most shocking was not lose any of those games.. It's not like he went out there and had dominant performances

While I'm not going to argue this point, the truth is that even if he never gets any better, I will forever respect Sanchez more than I ever did Pennington because Sanchez repeatedly showed he was capable of stepping up and playing at his best when his team needed it the most. Not to say he was going out and dominating the game by any means, but he held his own and did his part and most of all, put together some game-winning drives when they needed it. That alone won't do the trick without him getting the rest of it together, but there's a lot of allegedly very good QBs in this league who were completely incapable of ever doing that (including the great Peyton Manning for the vast majority of his career).

[NYJ37/12]

you guys against Sanchez are nuts. lets see how the next two years play out. And please stop comparing him to Brady, Manning, and Rodgers, he is never going to be one of those qb's, and that's fine by me. JUST WIN!!

[NYJ37/12]

and the last time I checked throwing for 3 td's on the road against your division rival in the divisional round of the playoffs is dominant football. If thats not good enough, nothing will ever be.

[CTM]

While I'm not going to argue this point, the truth is that even if he never gets any better, I will forever respect Sanchez more than I ever did Pennington because Sanchez repeatedly showed he was capable of stepping up and playing at his best when his team needed it the most. Not to say he was going out and dominating the game by any means, but he held his own and did his part and most of all, put together some game-winning drives when they

needed it. That alone won't do the trick without him getting the rest of it together, but there's a lot of allegedly very good QBs in this league who were completely incapable of ever doing that (including the great Peyton Manning for the vast majority of his career).

yea.. I said earlier that I liked sanchez.. Pennington I had no respect for .. He is/was probably my least favorite player of all time

[CTM]

and the last time I checked throwing for 3 td's on the road against your division rival in the divisional round of the playoffs is dominant football. If thats not good enough, nothing will ever be.

bologna... I'm pretty sure most came away from

that game talking about the defense.. He had 16 completions and 190 yards.. That's not exactly shredding the opposition.. He played a good, smart game.. Certainly something to be proud of, but a term like dominate shouldn't be thrown around lightly

[JoeWillie]

So you are happy with his progress and he's met your expectations?

For the most part, yes.

If you told me that the Jets would play in 2 AFC Championship Games in his first two years on the day they drafted him, I would not have believed it. You can say he fell into a good situation, and there is some truth to that, but I've seen young QB's hold back better teams than the Jets.

There are areas he can improve, no doubt.

I'd like to see him more accurate, no doubt.

I'd like to see him more consistent throughout the entire course of a mid-season regular season game, no doubt.

But he's 24 f$%^ing years old, guys. He's already brought this team to more post-season victories than ANY QB we've ever had here.

And he IS getting better.

[Bleedin Green]

yea.. I said earlier that I liked sanchez.. Pennington I had no respect for .. He is/was probably my least favorite player of all time

Exactly, Sanchez can bring out feelings of frustration, but with Pennington it's just unbridled hatred.

[CTM]

Brady's the best qb of all time cause he has the best w/l percent..

[JohnnyHector]

Perhaps there's some folly in hanging your hat on back-to-back AFC Championship Games when it took nothing short of a perfect storm of events to make it there each time.

[Jetsfan80]

Perhaps there's some folly in hanging your hat on back-to-back AFC Championship Games when it took nothing short of a perfect storm of events to make it there each time.

Did that "perfect storm" include facing back-to-back Hall-of-Fame quarterbacks on the road?

[Bleedin Green]

Perhaps there's some folly in hanging your hat on back-to-back AFC Championship Games when it took nothing short of a perfect storm of events to make it there each time.

That's certainly the case for 2009, I won't argue that, but I don't buy that for last season. Just taking Sanchez out of the equation, the Jets had their playoff spot locked up before even playing their last game, and they still tore the Bills a new one with nothing but backups in the game and ended up with their most wins in 12 years (and only 4 teams had more last year). Their playoff berth was certainly earned and it's not exactly like they got the luxury of facing post-season all-stars like the Chiefs or Seahawks come playoff time either. Hell, even the reigning Super Bowl champs backed into the playoffs last year thanks to the Giants losing to the single worst team in the league, so there's hardly much to apologize for regarding what the Jets did.

[JustInFudge]

For the most part, yes.

If you told me that the Jets would play in 2 AFC Championship Games in his first two years on the day they drafted him, I would not have believed it. You can say he fell into a good situation, and there is some truth to that, but I've seen young QB's hold back better teams than the Jets.

There are areas he can improve, no doubt.

I'd like to see him more accurate, no doubt.

I'd like to see him more consistent throughout the entire course of a mid-season regular season game, no doubt.

But he's 24 f$%^ing years old, guys. He's already brought this team to more post-season victories than ANY QB we've ever had here.

And he IS getting better.

Fair enough. He's actually exceeded my expectations because I thought he'd be an utter bust...but I dont think he's lived up to his draft status at this point. He's progressed and improved, I do believe that, but he's got a long way to go. And I'm ok with that, he's young and the book isnt closed.

Perhaps there's some folly in hanging your hat on back-to-back AFC Championship Games when it took nothing short of a perfect storm of events to make it there each time.

Yes, I'm sure everyone's perfect storm is facing Manning, Brady and Big Rape all on the road in the playoffs.

[JetsFanFromQueens]

I've noticed that most Sanchez critics, who enjoy criticizing him for his regular season numbers, are also the same fans who refuse to acknowledge the fact that he's played outstanding football come postseason play. Outstanding would be an understatement, he's performed phenomenally great. Yes, he's had his struggles during the regular season, he's still a young developing quarterback, but he's also been a clutch performer with the pressure on, during win or go home situations, when it's mattered the most; the playoffs. Stars have always been born come playoff time, and over the past two playoff apperances, Sanchez has distinguished himself as an up and coming franchise quarterback.

He's eliminated elite QB's such as Palmer, Rivers, Brady and Peyton Manning. How many quarterbacks can say they've eliminated Rivers and the Chargers, Manning and the Colts as well as Brady and the Patriots during the postseason? Sanchez can. He also played lights out while doing so. All 4 of our playoff victories have came on the road with Sanchez under center, which is astounding in it's own right in regards to our quarterback. He's gone into opposing stadiums, with 60,000+ fans going absolutely wild for their playoff teams, and he's shown me the heart, focus and overall composure of a playoff warrior. It doesn't get any better than that.

4-2 record during the playoffs and has gone 95/157, 1,155, yards, 60.5%, 9 TD's/3 INT's with a QB rating of 94.3 during 6 career playoff games. This kid is a winner. Only 5 quarterbacks have a playoff career rating that ranks higher than Sanchez' playoff performances. Aaron Rodgers. Bart Starr. Kurt Warner. Drew Bress and Joe Montana. I'm proud to say that Sanchez is our franchise quarterback. Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, Brett Favre, Steve Young, Tom Brady, Warren Moon and Ben Roethlisberger also rank top 15 amongst playoff quarterbacks. Sanchez may not have a ring, but then again, he hasn't even completed his 3rd season as a pro.

QB ratings of 63.0 his rookie season, 75.3 his sophmore year and has currently posted a rating of 82.3 (and climbing). He's improving, and if his 3 year trend of consistant improvement continues, he'll most definitely finish the year off with a QB rating of 90 or higher. I guess the critics of Sanchez can always label him a career loser, for the simple fact, he hasn't became a QB with a quarterback rating of 100+ before the end of his 3rd season...

[StraightCash]

He's definitely growing, but I don't think its fast enough compared to the QB inflation we are seeing around the league.

[Barton]

He's leading 1 of the worst offenses in the league. Improved what?