Good Article for those who hate football know-it-alls...

[JustInFudge]

Cam Newton.

Huh? You meant the first overall pick. lol

Okay. Wow.

All remember was that he wasnt accurate and had a bad attitude. Otherwise, why would he go 1st overall.

This thread is really sad.

[RutgersJetFan]

Are we taking crazy pills today?

The Bostonian arguing that it's stupid to factor in race. Real original world, real original.

[Garb]

Cam Newton was blasted, BLASTED before the draft. There were analysts and fans who actually felt that CAR drafted him with more of an intent to sell jerseys and put themselves on the map over building a winning team. How's THAT for insulting?? Let's face it, if Tim Tebow is a black, non religious QB with the same resume and skillset there would be no push at all. In fact, we'd probably be wondering how he would transition to TE.

Tebow was as well....you just don't want to hear it.

Personally, I could not care less how well, or poorly, either of them do. They do not lead my team.

I just think some of the people here are front Planet Wowzer.

I mean, they blast racism...hidden or not...then partake in stupid stereotypes themselves. I call that hypocrisy. No, not you, Boozer. I'll say this...you are genuine and consistent.

[Klecko73isGod]

The Bostonian arguing that it's stupid to factor in race. Real original world, real original.

I don't know how to post what I really want to post without risking a banning. I'll just say that I know you know exactly what I really want to say right now with a Bahston accent.

[JustInFudge]

That's kind of the point though. Guys like Newton, Vick, Culpepper, McNabb, Young, all experienced similar degrees of negativity towards their ability to play from a technical standpoint, but none experienced the same level of masses dying for them to succeed sans their alma maters. Can't say the same for Tebow at all. It's not lame to claim that race, religion, or both, plays a part in that. The majority of this country is white and Christian, that factors into enough mobilizations in itself, it certainly has the ability to carry into the sports realm.

I'm so confused right now. Boozer said Tebow was above criticism because he was white and that the black guys that played the position similar to him had to deal with much more criticism. You agreed and commended him for his post. And I may have said this before, but this takes the cake as the stupidest thing I've ever heard on this board.

Tebow was considered a reach, blasted on everything from form, footwork, delivery, to being able to read defenses and everything in between. He's still considered a bust and horrible Qb and 90% of the experts think he'll never pan out. And all of a sudden an article from dead spin erases all thoes critics?

And the thought the black guys received more is easily shown as moronic by simply looking at their draft positioning.

Cam Newton - 1st overall pick

McNabb - 2nd overall pick

Vick - 1st overall pick

Young - 2nd overall pick

Culpepper - 11th overall pick

Tebow was considered a 3rd round prospect till Josh McDaniels busted his load and took him in what, the 20's? But he wasnt more scrutinized than the black guys? Again, wow.

Now, in terms of the overall adoration for the kid...sure, maybe its because of his outward faith in God and he's white. But thats not what Boozer was talking about.

[T0mShane]

If Tebow was a black dude, he'd still be shopping for apartments in Saskatchewan. Or trying to get a gig running the point for the Knicks.

[RutgersJetFan]

I don't know how to post what I really want to post without risking a banning. I'll just say that I know you know exactly what I really want to say right now with a Bahston accent.

Oh nice. Two Jewish guys from Jersey joking about how it's kind of racist. Real original also, you PC hippie douche.

[RutgersJetFan]

If Tebow was a black dude, he'd still be shopping for apartments in Saskatchewan. Or trying to get a gig running the point for the Knicks.

You bite your tongue, I'd give my left nipple to have Charlie Ward running the 1 again.

[Boozer76]

Tebow was as well....you just don't want to hear it.

Personally, I could not care less how well, or poorly, either of them do. They do not lead my team.

I just think some of the people here are front Planet Wowzer.

I mean, they blast racism...hidden or not...then partake in stupid stereotypes themselves. I call that hypocrisy. No, not you, Boozer. I'll say this...you are genuine and consistent.

But here's the difference Garb-Black QB's have been told that they need to change to conform to the game. The Tebow movement has been throwing all caution to the wind, saying he will revolutionize the game. I literally have seen countless statements where h is going to suddenly make the spead option offense successful in the NFL because he's just a winner. I mean, REALLY!? So Tebow doesn't need to conform and improve his horrible flaws? The game will change for him? REALLY!? Guess what, if he were black you'd never hear that kind of talk, that's for sure.

[Garb]

But here's the difference Garb-Black QB's have been told that they need to change to conform to the game. The Tebow movement has been throwing all caution to the wind, saying he will revolutionize the game. I literally have seen countless statements where h is going to suddenly make the spead option offense successful in the NFL because he's just a winner. I mean, REALLY!? So Tebow doesn't need to conform and improve his horrible flaws? The game will change for him? REALLY!? Guess what, if he were black you'd never hear that kind of talk, that's for sure.

The only person I have heard say this is Skip Bayless and he's a moron. Listen to real analysts who understand the position - Trent Dilfer, for example - and he pretty much says Tebow sucks...in a nice way, of course.

The real loser in all of this is the Denver Bronos. They trade away their receivers, pretty much give the reigns to Tebow in hopes that he falls flat on his face - he pulls a victory out of his arse against a team that has mailed it in - and all of a sudden it's team Tebow. What a joke. Blame the media. I do.

[JustInFudge]

But here's the difference Garb-Black QB's have been told that they need to change to conform to the game. The Tebow movement has been throwing all caution to the wind, saying he will revolutionize the game. I literally have seen countless statements where h is going to suddenly make the spead option offense successful in the NFL because he's just a winner. I mean, REALLY!? So Tebow doesn't need to conform and improve his horrible flaws? The game will change for him? REALLY!? Guess what, if he were black you'd never hear that kind of talk, that's for sure.

Right, thats why Tebow didnt throw at the combine and waited to show his "new release" at his pro-day.

1 article defending his play by dead spin does not erase the millions of critics, including his own HC and GM that dont think he's better than Orton because he's more of an typical NFL QB yet only won 4 of his last 20 starts.

Bro, you are wrong and misguided. If you were right then Cam, Vick, McNabb, Young would not have been 1st and 2nd overall selections.

Wow.

[Klecko73isGod]

You bite your tongue, I'd give my left nipple to have Charlie Ward running the 1 again.

He'd still be the best QB in NY.

[Klecko73isGod]

Right, thats why Tebow didnt throw at the combine and waited to show his "new release" at his pro-day.

1 article defending his play by dead spin does not erase the millions of critics, including his own HC and GM that dont think he's better than Orton because he's more of an typical NFL QB yet only won 4 of his last 20 starts.

Bro, you are wrong and misguided. If you were right then Cam, Vick, McNabb, Young would not have been 1st and 2nd overall selections.

Wow.

If Tebow played his college ball at Florida State or Tennessee what would you think of him?

[JustInFudge]

If Tebow played his college ball at Florida State or Tennessee what would you think of him?

I'm not sure what this has to do with the context of this thread, but I'd think the same thing I do now. Great kid, top 5 all time college Football players, winner, horrible NFL QB. Only difference is I'd probably hate him. lol

I'd like to point out that no where in this thread did I say he was a good QB. I'm just laughing at all the people that agreed with some seriously racist sh*t that Boozer threw out there, that is totally misguided and false.

[Klecko73isGod]

I'm not sure what this has to do with the context of this thread, but I'd think the same thing I do now. Great kid, top 5 all time college Football players, winner, horrible NFL QB. Only difference is I'd probably hate him. lol

I'd like to point out that no where in this thread did I say he was a good QB. I'm just laughing at all the people that agreed with some seriously racist sh*t that Boozer threw out there, that is totally misguided and false.

LMFAO. At least you admit it.

[Boozer76]

I'm so confused right now. Boozer said Tebow was above criticism because he was white and that the black guys that played the position similar to him had to deal with much more criticism. You agreed and commended him for his post. And I may have said this before, but this takes the cake as the stupidest thing I've ever heard on this board.

Tebow was considered a reach, blasted on everything from form, footwork, delivery, to being able to read defenses and everything in between. He's still considered a bust and horrible Qb and 90% of the experts think he'll never pan out. And all of a sudden an article from dead spin erases all thoes critics?

And the thought the black guys received more is easily shown as moronic by simply looking at their draft positioning.

Cam Newton - 1st overall pick

McNabb - 2nd overall pick

Vick - 1st overall pick

Young - 2nd overall pick

Culpepper - 11th overall pick

Tebow was considered a 3rd round prospect till Josh McDaniels busted his load and took him in what, the 20's? But he wasnt more scrutinized than the black guys? Again, wow.

Now, in terms of the overall adoration for the kid...sure, maybe its because of his outward faith in God and he's white. But thats not what Boozer was talking about.

Jif,

I didn't even read the article. It has nothing to do with my opinion. As for the overall adoration for him because he's a white, religious, boy next door type of guy...actually that's exactly what I'm saying. Not sure what you're missing there? Experts pretty much have it right. Tebow sucks a$$. It's the huge public push to see him start that I am talking about. People are literally clamoring for DEN goes to an option offense and let him do his thing because he is a "winner". Where is this adoration for the black QB's, who are criticized by fans and experts alike that they must conform to the NFL style of QB? This is why the Tebow debate is so polarizing.

[SenorGato]

I challenge you to find anyone disparaging Cam Newton now. Unlike Tebow who was disparaged then and now.

I hate when people pull the race card in football. If anything, football is one of the most colorblind places in the world.

People haaaated Cam Newton. Can he learn an offense? He's so confident, does he deserve to be so? Is he Ryan Leaf 2.0 with the attitude? Is he a real passer? Etc etc

[JustInFudge]

Jif,

I didn't even read the article. It has nothing to do with my opinion. As for the overall adoration for him because he's a white, religious, boy next door type of guy...actually that's exactly what I'm saying. Not sure what you're missing there? Experts pretty much have it right. Tebow sucks a$$. It's the huge public push to see him start that I am talking about. People are literally clamoring for DEN goes to an option offense and let him do his thing because he is a "winner". Where is this adoration for the black QB's, who are criticized by fans and experts alike that they must conform to the NFL style of QB? This is why the Tebow debate is so polarizing.

This is not what you said earlier...not at all.

The back-up QB has always been the fans favorite player when their starter is awful, has only won 4 games out of thelr last 20 and their team sucks. I've lived in Jax for quite some time. David Garrard was adored by Jags fans when he was the backup...adored. His jersey was one of the hottest items in the city. People would chant his name at games while boo'ing Leftwhich, radio shows were filled with call-ins about why Garrard wasnt the starter and Leftwhich wasnt nearly as bad as Orton has been in Denver, nor was Garrard a 2 time National Champion, who broke all sorts of records and was one of the most popular players in the history of college sports. The fact that its Tebow, only magnifies this phenomenon which is very common in the NFL.

The adoration for the black the QB with a similar skill set comes in the form of the first overall pick in the NFL draft. Which makes your case that they are treated differently a complete and utter joke. If Denver drafted Cam Netwon, then decided not to start him and they went on to lose the next 16 of 20 games, you're kidding yourself if you dont think those fans wouldnt be calling for his name. Maybe not to the extent of buying billboards, etc, but please - its the NFL, people pay money to see their team win. Its the same reason why a guy who viciously murder dogs is welcomed back to the NFL with open arms. Race is irrelevant and you're original premise that they are treated differently was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

[T0mShane]

This is not what you said earlier...not at all.

The back-up QB has always been the fans favorite player when their starter is awful, has only won 4 games out of thelr last 20 and their team sucks. I've lived in Jax for quite some time. David Garrard was adored by Jags fans when he was the backup...adored. His jersey was one of the hottest items in the city. People would chant his name at games while boo'ing Leftwhich, radio shows were filled with call-ins about why Garrard wasnt the starter and Leftwhich wasnt nearly as bad as Orton has been in Denver, nor was Garrard a 2 time National Champion, who broke all sorts of records and was one of the most popular players in the history of college sports. The fact that its Tebow, only magnifies this phenomenon which is very common in the NFL.

The adoration for the black the QB with a similar skill set comes in the form of the first overall pick in the NFL draft. Which makes your case that they are treated differently a complete and utter joke. If Denver drafted Cam Netwon, then decided not to start him and they went on to lose the next 16 of 20 games, you're kidding yourself if you dont think those fans wouldnt be calling for his name. Maybe not to the extent of buying billboards, etc, but please - its the NFL, people pay money to see their team win. Its the same reason why a guy who viciously murder dogs is welcomed back to the NFL with open arms. Race is irrelevant and you're original premise that they are treated differently was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

tl;racist

[BroadwayJ667]

I still hate Tim Tebow

[JetsFanInDenver]

The only person I have heard say this is Skip Bayless and he's a moron. Listen to real analysts who understand the position - Trent Dilfer, for example - and he pretty much says Tebow sucks...in a nice way, of course.

The real loser in all of this is the Denver Bronos. They trade away their receivers, pretty much give the reigns to Tebow in hopes that he falls flat on his face - he pulls a victory out of his arse against a team that has mailed it in - and all of a sudden it's team Tebow. What a joke. Blame the media. I do.

McDaniels shat in that place so hard that it still stinks. They would have otherwise had Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Peyton Hillis on that team right now.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

McDaniels shat in that place so hard that it still stinks. They would have otherwise had Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Peyton Hillis on that team right now.

TBH, Marshall is meh. He drops almost as many balls as he catches.

[jason423]

I think there is some truth to the race thing. I disagree that it has anything to do with actual analysts talking about him since most bury him, but I do think it plays into the wish to succeed that seems to be presented by alot of guys. I think if you had a guy like Akili Smith do what Tebow did this last game the talk would not be about Akili Smith but almost all about how bad Miami was and how Denver might need a new QB next year. Now I do think the superstar aspect plays into it(Mike Vick would have gotten the same treatment when he was a rookie) But when you have guys like Francesa talking about how Tebow just has "it" and how "hes a winner", well lets just say they were not giving Vince Young the same benefit of the doubt when he started his downfall in his second year. For other guys Im guessing they are just fed things to talk about how great the young QBs are---Mike & Mike were praising the awesomeness of Christian Ponder and then started reading his stats and I think were floored with just how bad they were---but I think for more independent thinking journalists it probably does play a role.

[Larz]

they beat miami

settle down bevis

[The Troll]

The entire premise of the argument in this thread is borderline retarded.

Anyone remember Wins Young getting the most bullsh*t Rookie of the Year award in league history?

To say Tebow gets a pass because he's white is utterly ridiculous. Wonder how long until Timmy is on the Madden cover, or is he not black enough for that? The media desperately wants Tebow to fail, and they also desperately want a black QB to succeed. It's why Donovan McNabb was hailed as an elite QB for ten years despite being (for the most part) mediocre. If Jay Cutler pulled some of the playoff chokejobs that McNabb did, he'd be burned at the stake.

[dbatesman]

The media desperately wants Tebow to fail

[JetsFanInDenver]

TBH, Marshall is meh. He drops almost as many balls as he catches.

He was a monster for 3 seasons with the Broncos. The last season here he had 10 TD and 1000+ yards. Not too shabby.

But now he is with the Dolphags...Enough said!

[T0mShane]

I think there is some truth to the race thing. I disagree that it has anything to do with actual analysts talking about him since most bury him, but I do think it plays into the wish to succeed that seems to be presented by alot of guys. I think if you had a guy like Akili Smith do what Tebow did this last game the talk would not be about Akili Smith but almost all about how bad Miami was and how Denver might need a new QB next year. Now I do think the superstar aspect plays into it(Mike Vick would have gotten the same treatment when he was a rookie) But when you have guys like Francesa talking about how Tebow just has "it" and how "hes a winner", well lets just say they were not giving Vince Young the same benefit of the doubt when he started his downfall in his second year. For other guys Im guessing they are just fed things to talk about how great the young QBs are---Mike & Mike were praising the awesomeness of Christian Ponder and then started reading his stats and I think were floored with just how bad they were---but I think for more independent thinking journalists it probably does play a role.

Agreed with the above. Tebow is just a walking perfect storm of qualities that appeal to the white establishment-- overt Conservative Christian values, winning, good-looking kid, charismatic and humble. He's like a Norman Rockwell picture of a QB. The only thing holding him back is an inability to throw the football at an NFL level.

[JonEJet]

The only thing holding him back is an inability to throw the football at an NFL level.

If your history of choosing a QB with a long expectancy of greatness is any indication as to what Tebow will be as an NFL QB, I have to think Tebow is headed for greatness

[T0mShane]

The entire premise of the argument in this thread is borderline retarded.

Anyone remember Wins Young getting the most bullsh*t Rookie of the Year award in league history?

To say Tebow gets a pass because he's white is utterly ridiculous. Wonder how long until Timmy is on the Madden cover, or is he not black enough for that? The media desperately wants Tebow to fail, and they also desperately want a black QB to succeed. It's why Donovan McNabb was hailed as an elite QB for ten years despite being (for the most part) mediocre. If Jay Cutler pulled some of the playoff chokejobs that McNabb did, he'd be burned at the stake.

I think the media is desirous of good QBs in general, regardless of color. Let's face it: the great QB, in our culture, is generally considered the highest incarnation of Man.

[T0mShane]

If your history of choosing a QB with a long expectancy of greatness is any indication as to what Tebow will be as an NFL QB, I have to think Tebow is headed for greatness

DAVID CARR FTW

[The Troll]

I think the media is desirous of good QBs in general, regardless of color. Let's face it: the great QB, in our culture, is generally considered the highest incarnation of Man.

I agree with that to a point, but black QBs are handled with kid gloves by the media. Except for JaMarcus Russell, the media tends to make a lot more excuses with black QBs and heaps praise on them that is undeserved.

Back to the McNabb example, he never met a big game he didn't choke in. The only reason those loaded Eagle teams ever made it to the Super Bowl is that they ran into an even bigger choker in Michael Vick. McNabb wasn't nationally criticized for loafing on a supposed two minute drive in the Super Bowl and PUKING IN THE ******* HUDDLE. Meanwhile, Jay Cutler gets absolutely killed for leaving the NFC championship game with a legit injury.

Not to mention that for years, all you had to do to make the cover of Madden was to be a black QB and be ok. Culpepper, McNabb, Vick, Vince Young. And all that hype is media driven. They put them on the cover to sell games based on the media felatio over those guys. Casual fans buy into sh*t like that. "The media says Vince Young is good, so he must be good." Remember when they used to compare Vince to Elway? JOHN ******* ELWAY! Tebow doesn't get compared to Elway and he plays for the ******* Broncos!

[jason423]

I agree with that to a point, but black QBs are handled with kid gloves by the media. Except for JaMarcus Russell, the media tends to make a lot more excuses with black QBs and heaps praise on them that is undeserved.

Back to the McNabb example, he never met a big game he didn't choke in. The only reason those loaded Eagle teams ever made it to the Super Bowl is that they ran into an even bigger choker in Michael Vick. McNabb wasn't nationally criticized for loafing on a supposed two minute drive in the Super Bowl and PUKING IN THE ******* HUDDLE. Meanwhile, Jay Cutler gets absolutely killed for leaving the NFC championship game with a legit injury.

Not to mention that for years, all you had to do to make the cover of Madden was to be a black QB and be ok. Culpepper, McNabb, Vick, Vince Young. And all that hype is media driven. They put them on the cover to sell games based on the media felatio over those guys. Casual fans buy into sh*t like that. "The media says Vince Young is good, so he must be good." Remember when they used to compare Vince to Elway? JOHN ******* ELWAY! Tebow doesn't get compared to Elway and he plays for the ******* Broncos!

And Peyton Hillis made the cover because he was the most electric runner in the NFL? Vick got a pass because he was a larger than life star, Young because of what he did in college (similar to Bush, but neither was really praised and certainly not Young by year 2), and Culpepper was always linked to Moss. McNabb is the only guy that got a pass and he got it because he was the one QB that would bring up the race card whenever things went bad and I think the media (ESPN) didnt want to deal with it. They knew he had a rough time in Philly partially because he was black and partially because they wanted Ricky Williams and they had the firestorm with Rush Limbaugh. The Philly media killed him though for being a loser. He and Reid were pretty much vilified for years in Philly.

[Klecko73isGod]

I agree with that to a point, but black QBs are handled with kid gloves by the media. Except for JaMarcus Russell, the media tends to make a lot more excuses with black QBs and heaps praise on them that is undeserved.

Back to the McNabb example, he never met a big game he didn't choke in. The only reason those loaded Eagle teams ever made it to the Super Bowl is that they ran into an even bigger choker in Michael Vick. McNabb wasn't nationally criticized for loafing on a supposed two minute drive in the Super Bowl and PUKING IN THE ******* HUDDLE. Meanwhile, Jay Cutler gets absolutely killed for leaving the NFC championship game with a legit injury.

Not to mention that for years, all you had to do to make the cover of Madden was to be a black QB and be ok. Culpepper, McNabb, Vick, Vince Young. And all that hype is media driven. They put them on the cover to sell games based on the media felatio over those guys. Casual fans buy into sh*t like that. "The media says Vince Young is good, so he must be good." Remember when they used to compare Vince to Elway? JOHN ******* ELWAY! Tebow doesn't get compared to Elway and he plays for the ******* Broncos!

He wasn't?

[T0mShane]

I agree with that to a point, but black QBs are handled with kid gloves by the media. Except for JaMarcus Russell, the media tends to make a lot more excuses with black QBs and heaps praise on them that is undeserved.

Back to the McNabb example, he never met a big game he didn't choke in. The only reason those loaded Eagle teams ever made it to the Super Bowl is that they ran into an even bigger choker in Michael Vick. McNabb wasn't nationally criticized for loafing on a supposed two minute drive in the Super Bowl and PUKING IN THE ******* HUDDLE. Meanwhile, Jay Cutler gets absolutely killed for leaving the NFC championship game with a legit injury.

Not to mention that for years, all you had to do to make the cover of Madden was to be a black QB and be ok. Culpepper, McNabb, Vick, Vince Young. And all that hype is media driven. They put them on the cover to sell games based on the media felatio over those guys. Casual fans buy into sh*t like that. "The media says Vince Young is good, so he must be good." Remember when they used to compare Vince to Elway? JOHN ******* ELWAY! Tebow doesn't get compared to Elway and he plays for the ******* Broncos!

I don't know, dude. a lot of the hype surrounding those guys was earned. Look at their records early on: McNabb--56-23 his first six years; Vick--31-19; Young--30-17. Culpepper went 11-5 his first year starting with 33 TDs. Those guys produced, which led to the accolades. Look at the fellating that guys like Bradford, Stafford, Flacco, Sanchez and Matt Ryan get. Those dudes haven't achieved half of what McNabb or even Vick did early on.

Also--and you know I'm no McNabb fan--but he's a borderline Hall of Famer, at least statistically.