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Sanchez with 4 TD's; And the Jets win during a last minute drive!!

JetsFanFromQueens

By JetsFanFromQueens
in NY Jets Forum

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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This guy, sorry to lump you in with him:

Building around a bad QB and sitting on your hands are not the same thing. The 1st implies that the QB's job is secure and the team does everything it can to upgrade talent around him. The latter implies not doing anything until you find your QB.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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Upgrading at QB is the toughest roster move in sports. Building around a bad QB is practically spinning your tires in the mud, but its you're only option as of now. Unless you thought Kyle Orton was the answer. The problem is- many of the pieces they've put around Sanchez on offense stink just as much as he does. The line sucks, Greene is a joke, Holmes isn't the physical specimen you'd expect a #1 to be, Plax is old, Keller put on weight this offseason and still cant block etc, etc...and he's the only guy Sanchez has had any consistent rapport with.

The Jets took a chance less than 3 years ago because they thought Sanchez was the guy. I can't fault them for that, at some point they needed to draft a QB. Freeman looks to be pretty crappy himself.

Even with the public support he gets from the organization, I doubt everyone within is confident in Sanchez being the franchise QB and are probably evaluating ways to improve the position.

I actually think we'd be a significantly better team with Orton, but obviously he's not the long term answer, nor a possibility based on the waiver system.

I'm not as down on the other guys as you are. I think we have plenty of weapons on offense, even if they're not superstars that a QB with some real ability would be able to take advantage of the situation and make us a good enough offense to compete with the better teams in the league. I also think a good QB would make a lot of these weapons look better. Holmes being the biggest one, IMO.

It sucks, but the way the league is run, you're really best off drafting and dumping QBs until you hit on one. Look at the Super Bowl winners over the last decade... Elite QBs, or QBs at that point in their career playing at a near elite level. That's what wins in today's NFL. Ground and Pound and Game Managers are dead.

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Matt39

Matt39

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I actually think we'd be a significantly better team with Orton, but obviously he's not the long term answer, nor a possibility based on the waiver system.

I'm not as down on the other guys as you are. I think we have plenty of weapons on offense, even if they're not superstars that a QB with some real ability would be able to take advantage of the situation and make us a good enough offense to compete with the better teams in the league. I also think a good QB would make a lot of these weapons look better. Holmes being the biggest one, IMO.

It sucks, but the way the league is run, you're really best off drafting and dumping QBs until you hit on one. Look at the Super Bowl winners over the last decade... Elite QBs, or QBs at that point in their career playing at a near elite level. That's what wins in today's NFL. Ground and Pound and Game Managers are dead.

Hey, I have zero issues with this philosophy....if the Jets hadn't gotten lucky with their improbable runs to the title game(lets be honest, they did) that process might have even started already. Depends on how you look at it I guess....

edit- Mccelroy they drafted, so who knows...

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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Hey, I have zero issues with this philosophy....if the Jets hadn't gotten lucky with their improbable runs to the title game(lets be honest, they did) that process might have even started already. Depends on how you look at it I guess....

edit- Mccelroy they drafted, so who knows...

I think it was tremendous luck, which including the Colts laying down when they were 7-7. But, I think the team was good enough to get there, and Sanchez was holding them back, which I don't think you're arguing.

As for McElroy, I don't think he was brought in to be anything more than a back up, guy has nothing resembling the physical tools to be a player.

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SMC

SMC

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What points are "the professionals" making?

No professionals are saying Schotty is horrible and incompetent.

The point I'm making is not that a guy looks clueless, as that's an opinion, but that coaches are made by players more often than the other way around. Things as simple as the way Sanchez holds the football that causes him to fumble... Do you really think none of the offensive coaches have pointed this out and tried to work with him on it? Maybe he's just not getting it when he has a split second to think.

The professionals are not saying Schitty is horrible or incompetent. The professionals are pointing out things that are the purview of coaching. We're not simply talking about being careless with the football. It's more. They're mentioning technical aspects.

Is it your view that Schitty & Cavanaugh are giving him all this coaching and "in the line of fire" he's forgetting it all? They've instructed him on HOW not to throw the ball high, or HOW to throw the TE screen, etc.

Again, it's not merely telling him not to do something. That's like telling a young Tiki Barber not to fumble. That's useless. Instead, Coughlin tought Barber HOW to handle the ball correctly so he wouldn't fumble.

I'm questioning whether the coaching staff is teaching Sanchez the "how."

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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Tebow is the wildcat. Teams will adjust.

They're winning on D now anyway.

They are winning on Tebow's late game heroics and defense.

Doesnt change the fact that Orton is the mush, got benched for Tim Tebow, and now currently backs up Tyler Palko. The guys is 4-14 as a starter in the past 2 seasons with the same team that Tim Tebow is 7-3.

All the frustration you have with Sanchez, you'll have with Orton minus the ability to step it up when you most need it. Guy is the mush. No thank you.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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The professionals are not saying Schitty is horrible or incompetent. The professionals are pointing out things that are the purview of coaching. We're not simply talking about being careless with the football. It's more. They're mentioning technical aspects.

Is it your view that Schitty & Cavanaugh are giving him all this coaching and "in the line of fire" he's forgetting it all? They've instructed him on HOW not to throw the ball high, or HOW to throw the TE screen, etc.

Again, it's not merely telling him not to do something. That's like telling a young Tiki Barber not to fumble. That's useless. Instead, Coughlin tought Barber HOW to handle the ball correctly so he wouldn't fumble.

I'm questioning whether the coaching staff is teaching Sanchez the "how."

I'm just looking at a situation and saying that either 1 player is not good, or all of the coaches are completely missing the obvious.

My guess is, while they may not be doing a great job of it, Sanchez is being instructed on certain things. It would be shocking to find out that these things just get ignored and aren't worked on. If that's the case, everyone, including Rex, should be fired. Everyone.

It just seems more likely that Sanchez isn't taking to the material. It happens. Plenty of guys aren't good enough.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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They are winning on Tebow's late game heroics and defense.

Doesnt change the fact that Orton is the mush, got benched for Tim Tebow, and now currently backs up Tyler Palko. The guys is 4-14 as a starter in the past 2 seasons with the same team that Tim Tebow is 7-3.

All the frustration you have with Sanchez, you'll have with Orton minus the ability to step it up when you most need it. Guy is the mush. No thank you.

Maybe so. Either way, neither is really a guy I want running my team. As I said, draft and dump until you find one, because that's the way you win in today's NFL. Or, we could get lucky and a Drew Brees could shake loose.

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tparich

tparich

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It sucks, but the way the league is run, you're really best off drafting and dumping QBs until you hit on one. Look at the Super Bowl winners over the last decade... Elite QBs, or QBs at that point in their career playing at a near elite level. That's what wins in today's NFL. Ground and Pound and Game Managers are dead.

I'm sure everyone in San Diego agrees with this.

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SMC

SMC

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I'm just looking at a situation and saying that either 1 player is not good, or all of the coaches are completely missing the obvious.

My guess is, while they may not be doing a great job of it, Sanchez is being instructed on certain things. It would be shocking to find out that these things just get ignored and aren't worked on. If that's the case, everyone, including Rex, should be fired. Everyone.

It just seems more likely that Sanchez isn't taking to the material. It happens. Plenty of guys aren't good enough.

Sanchez may simply be "not good enough," but young QBs can be tought the things the commentators are referring to and have been.

And I'm not talking about decision making, because that just may be up to him. Heck, Jim Kelly went to the HOF and he loved throwing into triple coverage.

The issue is the throws Sanchez should be completing everytime, but doesn't because of wildness. That's what Kurt Warner referred to. Is the coaching staff working on that? Maybe. But maybe is all we got. We don't read about it although we read that Sanchez is working on other stuff in practice.

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Scott Dierking

Scott Dierking

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Sanchez may simply be "not good enough," but young QBs can be tought the things the commentators are referring to and have been.

And I'm not talking about decision making, because that just may be up to him. Heck, Jim Kelly went to the HOF and he loved throwing into triple coverage.

The issue is the throws Sanchez should be completing everytime, but doesn't because of wildness. That's what Kurt Warner referred to. Is the coaching staff working on that? Maybe. But maybe is all we got. We don't read about it although we read that Sanchez is working on other stuff in practice.

My laugh of the day yesterday, was when my 12 year old was watching with me and the announcers are discussing the litany of issues that Sanchez is having, and then they mention that for motivation they sat Sanchez during practice and gave first team reps to Brunell.

My 12 year old's response-heck, if he is that bad, why don't they give him MORE reps. That is stupid.

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Scott Dierking

Scott Dierking

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San Diego dumped the wrong guy. Look at Brees's stats for two years before they dropped him. They should have traded Rivers, and had it not been for the injury, they probably would have.

The injury was very risky for them-it was worse then Pennington's, as I recall. It happened on the last game of the year too.

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Smashmouth

Smashmouth

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I've been saying the same exact thing. Since when does the problem have to be one or the other? Why is it so hard to grasp that both Sanchez and Schitty are the problem? Of course if we had Peyton Manning in his prime our offense would be immensely better even in the same system. Of course Sanchez greatly handicaps what plays can be called.

But that doesn't change the fact that Schotty makes some ridiculously head-scratching play-calls. That doesn't change the fact that over his tenure all of our QBs have been turnover prone and the offenses have all ranked at the bottom half of the league year in and year out. Doesn't change the fact that some play designs are just idiotic. Schotty is capable of calling good games, but he's grossly inconsistent and can be slow to make adjustments. Yes, fans are using Schotty as a scapegoat for the problems, but that doesn't mean he isn't a contributing force in the problems of our offense. I just don't understand CTM's feeling that the OC has absolutely no contribution to an offense's problems and that's it's all QB driven.

Just because you see a complete troll at the bar doesn't mean her slightly less ugly friend is suddenly hot.

Explain how Sanchez handicaps play calls ? if its what coaches percieve than thats one problem but he can make every throw and he can move around very well so what do you mean ?

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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The injury was very risky for them-it was worse then Pennington's, as I recall. It happened on the last game of the year too.

Agreed. Not a crazy move by them at all. I don't blame San Diego. But, the response was with regard to them making a mistake by drafting Rivers. Jets should be so lucky to have two guys who can play the position well. When was the last time we had one?

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Smashmouth

Smashmouth

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the last difference maker at OC was named walsh... maybe Kubiak is the real deal, but most of them live and die by the QB...

I really can't believe there's anyone who thinks this isn't a top 5 offense with Manning here. Or that a top 5 offense would protect our defense better. It's like you guys don't pay attention at all. Have you seen the colts this year? I mean why the falloff? Do you really think it's not cause they lost Manning? This should be the last year anyone makes a QB's are overrated arguement, at least wait till 6 months have passed before pretending there's not glaring evidence of exactly what I'm talking about just west of us

It is because they lost Manning and they failed at grooming a decent back up and tried to get a 39 year old in there and running the offense in 2 weeks. There are some QB's that actully do suck and Painter is one of them thats the Colts fault . If collins was backing up Manning and knew the offense yiou think they would be losing every game ? No way....... I also do not think the Colts would be as good as they are with Manning either if Manning can take to Colts to 12-4 I would be willing to bet a guy like Collins with a year or more under his belt in that system could win 7-10 games. In other words he would be a good QB not a great QB Mannings the type of guy who you have to add a few more wins but a total team collapse is another story.

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Scott Dierking

Scott Dierking

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Agreed. Not a crazy move by them at all. I don't blame San Diego. But, the response was with regard to them making a mistake by drafting Rivers. Jets should be so lucky to have two guys who can play the position well. When was the last time we had one?

The Richard Todd/Matt Robinson debate.

At least we suckered a number 1 and 2 for Robinson.

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SMC

SMC

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My laugh of the day yesterday, was when my 12 year old was watching with me and the announcers are discussing the litany of issues that Sanchez is having, and then they mention that for motivation they sat Sanchez during practice and gave first team reps to Brunell.

My 12 year old's response-heck, if he is that bad, why don't they give him MORE reps. That is stupid.

LOL, your son & I think alike. Sanchez needs more reps, not less. Making him afraid or pissed off at losing his job is not going to stop him from throwing the ball 3 feet over a WRs head.

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Smashmouth

Smashmouth

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The way the Jets o-line played yesterday, Manning could hold up.

They way they played the bulk of the rest of this season, Manning would be a mark.

Nah with Manning here Hunter automaticly learns to stop QB's from getting completely steamrolled and Slauson easily stops the rush up the middle. It takes time for a QB to get comfortable in the pocket again after hes been crushed as many times as Sanchez has If people would remember Manning went through a similar stretch early in his career when he was labeled with "Happy Feet" because when he played good defenses he was not getting the protection he needed.

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#27TheDominator

#27TheDominator

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Explain how Sanchez handicaps play calls ? if its what coaches percieve than thats one problem but he can make every throw and he can move around very well so what do you mean ?

You think Sanchez knows what he is doing? In an informal poll (pole? I started counting during the 2nd NE game) the play fails 90% of the time when he calls "Kill! Kill!" I think he has trouble figuring out what is going on before the snap and he still is not close to being able to pull off the audibles as they had hoped. He also doesn't see the field very well and that makes alternate receivers useless much of the time.

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SMC

SMC

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You think Sanchez knows what he is doing? In an informal poll (pole? I started counting during the 2nd NE game) the play fails 90% of the time when he calls "Kill! Kill!" I think he has trouble figuring out what is going on before the snap and he still is not close to being able to pull off the audibles as they had hoped. He also doesn't see the field very well and that makes alternate receivers useless much of the time.

Good points. I've noticed that about the "kill! kill!" but they did seem to work on Sunday.

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Smashmouth

Smashmouth

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You think Sanchez knows what he is doing? In an informal poll (pole? I started counting during the 2nd NE game) the play fails 90% of the time when he calls "Kill! Kill!" I think he has trouble figuring out what is going on before the snap and he still is not close to being able to pull off the audibles as they had hoped. He also doesn't see the field very well and that makes alternate receivers useless much of the time.

Dom I was talking from a physical standpoint. I see what your saying and if most of his issues are mental that can be fixed in a lot of ways ...if your simply not physically gifted enough to carry out the offense then it becomes another Issue and you either design an offense that a QB can excell in or you simply get rid of the QB

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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Maybe so. Either way, neither is really a guy I want running my team. As I said, draft and dump until you find one, because that's the way you win in today's NFL. Or, we could get lucky and a Drew Brees could shake loose.

Franchise QB's dont shake loose. Jay Cutler type trades never happen. The only luck would be scoring an old vet who's got one magical season left.

To the Jets credit, they have drafted QB's in recent history. And have been aggressive trying to find one from Favre to trading up for Sanchez. They get the importance just havent hit, like 28 teams who may or may not have tried as hard. lol

Luck plays a huge factor. Hate to say it. And the NY Jets are anything but lucky.

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