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How Bad IS Wayne Hunter?


SoFlaJets

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Sanchez holds the ball and takes sacks more than the average NFL QB.

I think that's because no one on the team can get open. When was the last time Santonio's overpaid butt got a few yards of separation? If Sanchez didn't hold on to the ball so long, bet you he would have thrown a pick on many of those plays.

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I think that's because no one on the team can get open. When was the last time Santonio's overpaid butt got a few yards of separation?

Holmes is certainly not blameless either... but he gets open. Sanchez usually locks on to his first read. I was actually at the game, sec 302 (behind the end zone) and Mark was missing tons of open men... before he imploded in the 2nd half.

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Wayne Hunter is an integral part of 4 DL guys getting NFL Defensive Player of the Week (Via deadspin.and NYDN)

"The Daily News points out a common thread in one of the NFL's weekly awards:

Jason Pierre-Paul just received his after a five-tackle, two-sack Christmas Eve against the Jets.

• Jason Babin earned his with four sacks on Mark Sanchez.

• Von Miller only had one-and-a-half sacks of Sanchez, but racked up nine tackles.

Andre Carter took down Sanchez 4.5 times for his award—nearly half his season total.

It doesn't matter what position you play, or what conference you're in, or even whether you're a particularly great defensive football player: the Jets' offensive line is the path to stardom and laurels".

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This. For some bizarre reason the notion that Sanchez had the best line in the league for two seasons and yet this season was statistically his best year gets completely ignored. Hunter sucks but no line in the league can be consistent on the sacks end when the QB is holding onto the ball for 4+ seconds regularly, or stepping straight into the line of fire rather than side-stepping anything. Wayne Hunter wasn't the one double clutching on a jailbreak against Baltimore.

so why aren't all the jets lineman at the bottom ? they should be the bottom 5 with your logic

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Yea I know I saw that stat yesterday too. All I know is I have been watching Brandon Moore play RG on this team for years now and this was the worst I have seen from him sice he became the starter. Besides, if you're a defensive coordinator and you are drawing up a way to attack the Jets QB, who would YOU design it around, going through Brandon Moore or would you slide it over one slot to the left and attack Wayne Hunter and/or Vlad DuCasse and Matthew Mulligan? Yea, me too...

Doubt it's that simple. I'm sure teams go for a receiver covered by a rookie corner all the time, but it doesn't begin and end there. The defense starts rolling over the safety to his side, pick 6. Just sayin, I'm sure that Moore has had to handle his fair share of rush, and you don't get through the entire season the way he has without being good...

As far as the Rob Turner situation, the CS did choose to start Hunter over him, but that was before *this*. Absolutely no question in my mind that Turner would have been starting at RT weeks ago if he was healthy. I'm sure you agree. In fact, it's a wonder that some random FA signing isn't starting over Hunter at this point, so if Turner was available then absolutely he would have gotten the nod by now.

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The Jets sack totals are a bit overblown. They rank 21st in the NFL adjusted for attempt and are just slightly below average when you factor in strength of schedule. Hunter is horrendous and a RT should never give up those kind of sacks as it means they are just getting beaten without even putting up a fight, but Sanchez isnt really getting brought down much more than expected. It was far worse in 2009 when he was a rookie. Its just made to look worse here because Sanchez basically plays Tecmo Bowl in the pocket in the worst spots on the field and rather than stepping up and just taking a 2 yard sack goes back and back and back before going down

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The Jets sack totals are a bit overblown. They rank 21st in the NFL adjusted for attempt and are just slightly below average when you factor in strength of schedule. Hunter is horrendous and a RT should never give up those kind of sacks as it means they are just getting beaten without even putting up a fight, but Sanchez isnt really getting brought down much more than expected. It was far worse in 2009 when he was a rookie. Its just made to look worse here because Sanchez basically plays Tecmo Bowl in the pocket in the worst spots on the field and rather than stepping up and just taking a 2 yard sack goes back and back and back before going down

Ha, made this same point to my buddy yesterday....unforunately the ball doesnt go farther when he drops back and back and back.

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The Jets sack totals are a bit overblown. They rank 21st in the NFL adjusted for attempt and are just slightly below average when you factor in strength of schedule. Hunter is horrendous and a RT should never give up those kind of sacks as it means they are just getting beaten without even putting up a fight, but Sanchez isnt really getting brought down much more than expected. It was far worse in 2009 when he was a rookie. Its just made to look worse here because Sanchez basically plays Tecmo Bowl in the pocket in the worst spots on the field and rather than stepping up and just taking a 2 yard sack goes back and back and back before going down

You mean sacks allowed are only "slightly below average"?

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Which is why I keep referring back to what happened with David Carr in Houston. After a while these beleaguered QB's get shellshocked and worry more about the pass rush coming than making the play-I fear that is what has happened to Mark Sanchez. As Jets fans we can only hope that it's a temporary and fixable problem or we ARE screwed and WILL need a new QB.

I am supposed to worry about this kid getting post traumatic stress disorder after two years behind the best line in the league? It's time to let him work for his money. The line isn't that bad, it's just way worse than it's been the last few years.

Oh, and BTW, SoFla, Brandon Moore, even with his bad hip, hasn't allowed a single QB hit this season. Hunter leads the NFL in that category. Of course, that's all Sanchez' fault.

If that is the statistic they are citing, then I think they are faulty. I know guards don't get much blame, but I can remember a couple where I'm convinced sacks were his fault. Particularly when passing guys off.

can we just draft 2 o lineman in this years draft and get it over with. Drafting oline is always a good move.

Like Ducasse? I think we are going to go after a sure thing and that means a FA. At least one. They may look to add a guard that *may* start in the draft and some depth, but we are probably going the other way, Faneca style at RT.

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As far as the Rob Turner situation, the CS did choose to start Hunter over him, but that was before *this*. Absolutely no question in my mind that Turner would have been starting at RT weeks ago if he was healthy. I'm sure you agree. In fact, it's a wonder that some random FA signing isn't starting over Hunter at this point, so if Turner was available then absolutely he would have gotten the nod by now.

I think Rob Turner is pretty small for a tackle. At least 10 lbs less than Hunter and the run game has taken a pretty big step back as it is. I don't think he has ever played tackle for the Jets. There is a difference between extra TE and RT. The fact that Ducasse and Slauson competed for the guard job and Turner wasn't even involved is pretty telling. I think that Turner is on a one year deal and will be a UFA. There is a good chance they will try to have him back, but I'm sure it will be as a backup. He should be a last resort even at guard, let alone tackle and I really like him.

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I understand the Sanchez holding the ball too long claim, but Hunter has allowed 22 of the 37 sacks allowed. With Moore not allowing a sack, that means the other 3 lineman have averaged giving up 5 sacks each. So why isnt Sanchez holding the ball too long causing the other lineman to have more sacks?

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I understand the Sanchez holding the ball too long claim, but Hunter has allowed 22 of the 37 sacks allowed. With Moore not allowing a sack, that means the other 3 lineman have averaged giving up 5 sacks each. So why isnt Sanchez holding the ball too long causing the other lineman to have more sacks?

Pressure comes from the edge generally. It's unfair to parallel sacks given up by a center rather than a tackle. There's a reason you've seen every single significant pass rusher in the league line up against Hunter and not over the interior. More importantly, the majority of the time they're not attacking Brick either.

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Its just sad. Hunter is the worst T in the NFL, but that is Sanchez's fault. Jets were 5th in passes over 40 yds last year, get rid of Braylon, have no WR speed, and are now last in that category, but itall Sanchez's fault because he sucks.

So, Tom, you ask if Sanchez would be better with a decent RT, the answer is yes. Good pass blocking helps any QB, even the worst QB in NFL like Sanchez

this guy gets it.

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Does the QB have a role in pass protection? How big is that role? I see guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, and so on move around and avoid guys all the time. Sanchez does this in flashes at most right now.

Brady, Rodgers and Rivers would kill to have the Jets' OL.

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Hunter isn't bad. It's all Schottenheimer's fault.

Well, when your offensive system is so tied to the short-short pass (yet uses five-step drops), and never even tries to threaten down the field, why would a defense do anything other than press the line with all eleven guys?

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Well, when your offensive system is so tied to the short-short pass (yet uses five-step drops), and never even tries to threaten down the field, why would a defense do anything other than press the line with all eleven guys?

That would be a great argument if Hunter never gets beat 1-on-1 and it was only double-teams that allowed defenders to pressure Sanchez.

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That would be a great argument if Hunter never gets beat 1-on-1 and it was only double-teams that allowed defenders to pressure Sanchez.

Ah ha! But if the defense even had to think about coverage, you'd be able to give Hunter help, etc. I read somewhere that Sanchez's completion percentage against the blitz was something like 51%. It just shows that he's reacting instead of having a plan on where to go with the ball pre-snap. Every QB has to deal with free runners and having weak-link OL allowing pressure. The good ones do it well. The bad (or, poorly coached) ones, well, they get to point at Wayne Hunter.

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Another thing here: seeing as how Wayne Hunter has been so catastrophically bad this season to the point where some of you believe that he's hurt Sanchez's development, can anyone explain why Tannenbaum gets an outright pass for a. Not having a worthwhile vet backup on the roster that Rex could have turned to or b. Not using his $8 million in cap room to pick up a replacement in-season, either via trade or as a FA pickup?

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Another thing here: seeing as how Wayne Hunter has been so catastrophically bad this season to the point where some of you believe that he's hurt Sanchez's development, can anyone explain why Tannenbaum gets an outright pass for a. Not having a worthwhile vet backup on the roster that Rex could have turned to or b. Not using his $8 million in cap room to pick up a replacement in-season, either via trade or as a FA pickup?

2 AFC Championship games, Rex Ryan, and Darrelle Revis. JMO, but I think the Jets front office realized that there was a good chance this was not going to be a 13 win team this year and decided to better plan for the future. Our team is way higher than the other teams in the AFC East, and probably a good portion of the NFL, in salary commitments in 2012 and 2013. I think the reality is they knew 8 million to carry over to next season is way more important than signing an off the scrap heap player to spell Hunter or re-signing Shaun Ellis to play DE and being up against the cap in 2011 and 2012. I doubt they thought Hunter would be this awful, but I think they knew this was not the year to go wild spending money.

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2 AFC Championship games, Rex Ryan, and Darrelle Revis. JMO, but I think the Jets front office realized that there was a good chance this was not going to be a 13 win team this year and decided to better plan for the future. Our team is way higher than the other teams in the AFC East, and probably a good portion of the NFL, in salary commitments in 2012 and 2013. I think the reality is they knew 8 million to carry over to next season is way more important than signing an off the scrap heap player to spell Hunter or re-signing Shaun Ellis to play DE and being up against the cap in 2011 and 2012. I doubt they thought Hunter would be this awful, but I think they knew this was not the year to go wild spending money.

This

Plus throw in the final 4 rules from last year, and their hands were really tied. The mark of a excellent GM is not only being able to build a competitive team, but to stay competitive while rebuilding on the fly.

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2 AFC Championship games, Rex Ryan, and Darrelle Revis. JMO, but I think the Jets front office realized that there was a good chance this was not going to be a 13 win team this year and decided to better plan for the future. Our team is way higher than the other teams in the AFC East, and probably a good portion of the NFL, in salary commitments in 2012 and 2013. I think the reality is they knew 8 million to carry over to next season is way more important than signing an off the scrap heap player to spell Hunter or re-signing Shaun Ellis to play DE and being up against the cap in 2011 and 2012. I doubt they thought Hunter would be this awful, but I think they knew this was not the year to go wild spending money.

Oof. Good points. Still, isn't that kind of damning that using a few mill to go out and sign an older cheap vet that may or may not have allowed them to at least consider benching Hunter? That they'd essentially fold up the tent on the season over a few mil is almost Mets-like.

BTW, your post leaves me paralyzed with fear as to the future prospects of the team moving forward, in terms of having financial flexibility to make significant moves to improve what has been exposed as an extremely flawed, slow roster. I don't pretend to know anything about maneuvering under the cap, but is it safe to say that Tannenbaum is going to have to rely on draft picks and lower-level FA pick-ups because he still owes Calvin Pace and Bart Scott and Cro big money?

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2 AFC Championship games, Rex Ryan, and Darrelle Revis. JMO, but I think the Jets front office realized that there was a good chance this was not going to be a 13 win team this year and decided to better plan for the future. Our team is way higher than the other teams in the AFC East, and probably a good portion of the NFL, in salary commitments in 2012 and 2013. I think the reality is they knew 8 million to carry over to next season is way more important than signing an off the scrap heap player to spell Hunter or re-signing Shaun Ellis to play DE and being up against the cap in 2011 and 2012. I doubt they thought Hunter would be this awful, but I think they knew this was not the year to go wild spending money.

I thought it was pretty obvious they were moving a bunch of money to next year. The question is why they didn't just front-load a couple of these contracts more? I understand a little "just in case" room through the trade deadline, but the type of space that's likely to ever be needed can be created by some mid-season restructuring I'd think. In the meantime, while the net cap hit is the same next year, these front-loaded players have far less trade value (if that came up) than if $3-4M of their 2012 figure had already come off the 2011 Jets cap.

I don't think they're looking to move anyone, but if they were having serious thoughts about moving on from Sanchez (which I think will disappear after the season's over, unfortunately), someone like Cromartie or Holmes would have a lot more trade value if $5M or more of their salaries over the next year or two was off the books already.

2013 is looking like a potentially very ugly year cap-wise unless there's a $30M surge in the cap level. A bunch of guys idiotically overpaid who will have to be dealt with (Pace, Harris, Holmes, Scott) and others who will need their deals redone (Revis, Sanchez), and that doesn't address the holes we have entering 2012 or the players with contracts that expire after the 2012 season (a handful of current starters).

We'll see what happens I guess.

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Hunter's suckness might be a bit overstated. Honestly, if Anthony Muñoz was playing RT for the Jets, would Sanchez be a better QB? Would Schotty be a better OC?

The answer to both is yes. Sanchez would be a better QB with more time.

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The Jets sack totals are a bit overblown. They rank 21st in the NFL adjusted for attempt and are just slightly below average when you factor in strength of schedule. Hunter is horrendous and a RT should never give up those kind of sacks as it means they are just getting beaten without even putting up a fight, but Sanchez isnt really getting brought down much more than expected. It was far worse in 2009 when he was a rookie. Its just made to look worse here because Sanchez basically plays Tecmo Bowl in the pocket in the worst spots on the field and rather than stepping up and just taking a 2 yard sack goes back and back and back before going down

That is funny. I think in a few years Sanchez will be able to overcome an inferior OLine. His footwork is amazing. he had a play or two against the Giants were the pocket collapsed and he was moving laterally while looking down the whole time.

But then there are other plays where he looks like Tommy Brady collapsing under pressure. I think he will get better in this regard but right now he simply has no confidence.

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Oof. Good points. Still, isn't that kind of damning that using a few mill to go out and sign an older cheap vet that may or may not have allowed them to at least consider benching Hunter? That they'd essentially fold up the tent on the season over a few mil is almost Mets-like.

BTW, your post leaves me paralyzed with fear as to the future prospects of the team moving forward, in terms of having financial flexibility to make significant moves to improve what has been exposed as an extremely flawed, slow roster. I don't pretend to know anything about maneuvering under the cap, but is it safe to say that Tannenbaum is going to have to rely on draft picks and lower-level FA pick-ups because he still owes Calvin Pace and Bart Scott and Cro big money?

I think it would be considered damning if going into the year we knew that Hunter was this bad. The Jets seemed to have an indication he could be bad (his deal is only 1 year guaranteed with no dead cap if he gets cut) as they should from watching him last season in every game except the Bears game and Steelers playoff game. I think they also were hoping that Vlad Ducasse could be something and were worried that bringing in another guy might stunt his growth even further. What I disliked most was holding Rob Turner on the active roster because they dreamed he could play mid-year. To me that was completely grasping at straws.

In hindsight the Scott renegotiation may not have been the best idea since he looks shot, but its only $6 million in cap next season. None of the deals are really a killer. Everything is fixed by forcing Sanchez to take what he is worth right now and bringing his cap down from $14 million to $8 million or so. Thats the albatross on the roster. The other big money deals with Harris, Ferguson, and Holmes can easily be reworked if need be to lower cap charges in 2012 without much pain in the future. I think with the lower than projected cap figures this year and next teams that drafted well in 2006 and 2007 are in the same situation as the Jets. The new CBA did nothing to change the top of the market pay so if you resigned your guys you are going to have a hard time getting the mid tier free agents.

Once these new TV deals kick in on the cap my guess is everything goes back to normal.

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I think it would be considered damning if going into the year we knew that Hunter was this bad. The Jets seemed to have an indication he could be bad (his deal is only 1 year guaranteed with no dead cap if he gets cut) as they should from watching him last season in every game except the Bears game and Steelers playoff game. I think they also were hoping that Vlad Ducasse could be something and were worried that bringing in another guy might stunt his growth even further. What I disliked most was holding Rob Turner on the active roster because they dreamed he could play mid-year. To me that was completely grasping at straws.

In hindsight the Scott renegotiation may not have been the best idea since he looks shot, but its only $6 million in cap next season. None of the deals are really a killer. Everything is fixed by forcing Sanchez to take what he is worth right now and bringing his cap down from $14 million to $8 million or so. Thats the albatross on the roster. The other big money deals with Harris, Ferguson, and Holmes can easily be reworked if need be to lower cap charges in 2012 without much pain in the future. I think with the lower than projected cap figures this year and next teams that drafted well in 2006 and 2007 are in the same situation as the Jets. The new CBA did nothing to change the top of the market pay so if you resigned your guys you are going to have a hard time getting the mid tier free agents.

Once these new TV deals kick in on the cap my guess is everything goes back to normal.

Thanks, Jason. Max should really pay you.

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