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I give him plenty of credit for those picks, though it's worth noting that he's paid the absolute premium for all of them.

I don't remember you giving high credit for those picks, but even so it doesn't seem like you give them much weight in your overall opinion of Tanny.

As far as premium, are you referring to draft picks, or contracts? If contracts, IMO the only one you could complain about is Harris. Revis and Mangold are the best in the league at their positions so you are going to pay a premium to retain them.

If you are referring to draft picks, to me the trade ups for Revis and Harris were well worth it.

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Skeptics: 42 Homers: 0

Blah Blah

This is the younger than 35 we still have hope thread. Us old farts are already picking out our coffins.

To say any of us aren't fans is ridiculous. Some of you spend more time posting on here about this team than you do at your jobs haha We are all fans but some people just have different perspectives. I honestly think a lot of it has to do with age. I notice an extreme amount of impatience from a lot of you (jiF, T0mshane, EY..etc) and I just haven't gotten to that point yet. Maybe because I am only 25 but I can definitely understand it.

I just have a serious question for those of you who have an intense dislike for Mark Sanchez and blame him and his small steps forward for all of the Jets woes this year. What is it about him that you guys are so ready to give up on so quick when there are other examples of other QB's (who are now some of the great ones) struggling the same way early in their career? I dont know all the stats but just off the top of my head I know Eli Manning and Drew Brees are the two biggest I can think of. Eli was almost ran out of town the year before they won the Superbowl and he was awful as well. I just dont get why you wouldnt want to give this guy a chance with a new OC and at least be sure. But I guess it all comes down to that lack of patience that I cant blame you older guys for having.

Excellent post. I'm an older guy (younger guy at heart, lol) and I'm more than willing to see what Sanchize can do in the next 2 years. I think a lot of fans have been spoiled by the recent success of guys like Cam Newton who light it up in their first season or two. What they seem to forget with Sanchez is that he only started 1 year in college (unlike these other guys) and it normally takes at least 3 years to develop a QB. Sanchez also lost training camp this season - critical to his development, and has had an incompentent OC and QB coach. Cavanaugh, really? These facts are swept aside by the detractors, but as you mentioned guys like Eli went through the same stuff, but with better coaches.

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I disagree. It shows progress and instilling a winning attitude and culture.After about 40 years of following this team, I can say I expect the team to win on any given Sunday, and feel that we will win the SB with this regime. I felt that a little bit with the Tuna, but knew he would quit.

What you're basically saying in your post is that it doesn't matter unless you win the SB. So in essence, Tanny is no better than Ireland or any of the other countless GM's that haven't won a SB. I just don't buy that.

the journey as a fan is more fun making 2 championship games, but in terms of overall success, yes... if you dont win the super bowl then its a failure. Close isnt good enough. I dont care about being close anymore. I want to win the whole f#cking thing and everything else is a failure. And this year's journey has sucked.

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I just have a serious question for those of you who have an intense dislike for Mark Sanchez and blame him and his small steps forward for all of the Jets woes this year. What is it about him that you guys are so ready to give up on so quick when there are other examples of other QB's (who are now some of the great ones) struggling the same way early in their career? I dont know all the stats but just off the top of my head I know Eli Manning and Drew Brees are the two biggest I can think of. Eli was almost ran out of town the year before they won the Superbowl and he was awful as well. I just dont get why you wouldnt want to give this guy a chance with a new OC and at least be sure. But I guess it all comes down to that lack of patience that I cant blame you older guys for having.

anyone thinking we can get a top-line QB to magically come here and replace sanchez are deluded. Its not happening. The problem I see is the argument about sanchez has gone from "is he elite, good or awful?" to should he stay or go. Thats what happens when people dig in their heels to fight their side of an issue. For me, my opinion about sanchez hasnt changed. He's a middle-of-the-road average QB who has moments of brilliance. Ive accepted Sanchez probably wont be the one to carry a team on his back, and that the Jets need all facets of the game being very good in order to win. This year, they have sucked in so many areas, it makes Sanchez look worse than he really is. My biggest problem is the team doesnt work to his and the other players strengths and build from there. That is coaching. That goes to Rex, Shotty, and all the other coaches who dont play to their players strengths. Sanchez will become an above average QB, but he'll never be good enough for NYJ fans to love.

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the journey as a fan is more fun making 2 championship games, but in terms of overall success, yes... if you dont win the super bowl then its a failure. Close isnt good enough. I dont care about being close anymore. I want to win the whole f#cking thing and everything else is a failure. And this year's journey has sucked.

I hear you on that. The Jets are the only team for me that hasn't won a championship during my fandom. But I feel this regime has the best chance of getting it done than any other before. My biggest complaint about this regime is not getting rid of Schitty. If they don't do that this offseason then my feelings may change. They have brought in good talent and have taken chances, something missing previously.

I'm pessimistic by nature, so me being optimistic is saying something, lol. Getting rid of Schitty and acquiring some key FA's will get us there IMO.

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I hear you on that. The Jets are the only team for me that hasn't won a championship during my fandom. But I feel this regime has the best chance of getting it done than any other before. My biggest complaint about this regime is not getting rid of Schitty. If they don't do that this offseason then my feelings may change. They have brought in good talent and have taken chances, something missing previously.

I'm pessimistic by nature, so me being optimistic is saying something, lol. Getting rid of Schitty and acquiring some key FA's will get us there IMO.

i hope it gets us there... but i dont think shotty is the only weak link on the coaching staff... there needs to be a complete review of the entire staff and see why our players arent playing to their abilities.

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I have been a Jet man since the age of 4 when I attended my first games at Shea, My entire family (yes the ladies too) BLEED green. While sitting back for the past 35 years and watching hope quickly fade and yelling same old Jets, we never EVER abandoned the team. From the Sack exchange, to Boomer, from Mangini and Vinnie, To Rex and Sanchez.... we will always be there. But we have certainly earned the right to bitch and moan about it. You'd think in 35 years we would have at least made it to the big dance.....

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I have been a Jet man since the age of 4 when I attended my first games at Shea, My entire family (yes the ladies too) BLEED green. While sitting back for the past 35 years and watching hope quickly fade and yelling same old Jets, we never EVER abandoned the team. From the Sack exchange, to Boomer, from Mangini and Vinnie, To Rex and Sanchez.... we will always be there. But we have certainly earned the right to bitch and moan about it. You'd think in 35 years we would have at least made it to the big dance.....

Nice post...I understand all too well, cause I am in the same boat..........

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How did the Jets get hosed with that pick? They got rid of a bunch of dead weight and a couple of picks (highest was a 2nd IIRC) for a potential franchise QB. That's not getting hosed.

I'm not a huge Sanchez supporter, but I'm willing to give him the rest of his contract to prove himself. Hopefully the fish hire Schitty and we can see what he can do with a compentent OC. Regardless of all that lets remember that he was at the helm for 2 AFCCG, something a Clemmens or noodle arm could never do.

Agree with this post 100%

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typical reaction of people who jump on the bandwagon, instead of having stuck through the really bad times. Is this season bad, sure, is it one of the worst, hell no. In perspective, it isn't really even that bad, it's just disappointing. The team still has a good framework and can bounce back quickly with some strong tweaks.

I have to agree! can it get worse? YOU BET! late 80's jets were GOD AWFUL!

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Honestly, I'll never uderstand this phenomenon. What makes someone feel they are a better fan than another person or that they are going about it the right way? I'd love to have EY psycho-analyze this because its very strange. Like, what made this dude start this thread? Whats he trying to prove? Does he think he's going to change people with a thread on a message board? Or did he hit "post" and feel relief like he just stuck it to someone? lol

I've been a fan since birth. Essentially didnt have a choice in the matter. When the team sucks, I say they sucks. When a player sucks, I say that players sucks. I gave up on this season a couple of weeks ago because of the product I saw on the field. Doesnt mean I havent watched every game and been cheering like a normal fan - I just set my self up for the dissapointment. Maybe you are the eternal optimist. Good for you. I'm not. Doesnt make me a bad fan or you a good one. It makes me well, me. And you, you.

I'm 100% positive at the end of the day the way I root for the Jets has no impact on the game. And if I choose to think Sanchez is utter garbage...thats my right and will continue to think that way till he proves me wrong.

Go Jets!

Excellent post JiF.

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Six years, two head coaches, two blown top-six picks, no impact players drafted since Mangini was holding his hand, no Super Bowls, bloated contracts comprising an aging, declining roster. It's fair to question Tannenbaum.

I think that it isn't fair to complain about the coaches and I don't have a huge problem with the drafts. Doesn't mean you can't complain about them. Mangini has been gone for 3 drafts. Under traditional reasoning, it's only just now that we can start rating the first draft without him. I think Tannenbaum has done a fine job. OTOH, I do think that it is fair to question him. Especially on any given decision. I am not a sunny Jets homer, but I think they are headed in the right direction. I spent my Saturday afternoon screaming at Sanchez, but I don't want him gone. I think Rex has been a great coach, but anybody talking about dumping him is a lunatic. This is a down season. The last time we had one, we reloaded and were rolling pretty well with Favre, Faneca and Woody. If the team is performing as well as they have you can complain, but talking about firing him or "blaming him" for being 8-7 is a bit much. 8-7 is not bad. We aren't the ******* Rams. Still, question away. The idea of firing him is just more fans calling for change for the sake of change though.

128 is a homer and wont bash his team when needed like a good fan should.

My pick for greatest fan ever?

PSMaxJets

I've met him. Not fat enough.

I was a big Leinart guy. Apparently, the book was out on him that he was an immature douche, making Brick the safe pick there. Still, going 1 for 3 on your top-six picks is pretty dubious stuff, regardless of whether or not they were the obvious pick there. Gholston still goes on Tannenbaum's résumé. To be clear, I'm not advocating firing the guy at thIs point. I'm just responding to Dom's claim that it's an extremist position to question Tannenbaum's record.

Also, I'm with you on Sanchez and I also got killed for saying that he should sit the bench for a year behind Clemens. I was at training camp that week, tweeting for JetNation, and I said that Erik Ainge was the best QB in camp at that point. There was much anger. Much vitriol.

Matt Leinart? Ewww! That was when I first started posting here. I was ready to go 4-12 with Patrick Ramsey that year. I agree that Sanchez may have benefitted a bit by sitting, but I don't think he or the team would have gained much by sitting behind stiffs like Clemens and Ainge. Those guys suck and are NFL backups at best. The team probably thought Clemens was better than he actually turned out. They probably could have inked a medium level vet looking to extend his career. Kerry Collins?

I give him plenty of credit for those picks, though it's worth noting that he's paid the absolute premium for all of them.

Absolute premium for Sanchez? C'mon. That wasn't much to move up that far. For Revis? Maybe, but I think that Tannenbaum should be commended for trying to lock him up longterm and going through all that the first year. It didn't work out, but it shows he knew the nature of the beast.

Your obsession with trying to discredit Bill Parcells always amuses, my friend. Tannenbaum would be working for H&R Block if it weren't for Parcells.

It's interesting. I HATE Parcells, particularly as a GM, but I do respect him a bit. Tuna always ran out of town after his turnarounds, but I'm pretty sure that he said that it was easier to get good than STAY good. I think that is what you are bashing Tannenbaum for now. Mike T is trying to improve a good team. It will be much easier to replace Wayne Hunter than to improve on a borderline starter type like Slauson or Smith.

Edited by #27TheDominator
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Are people deserting the team? I do not sense that. They have opinions. Call it freedom of speech, if you will. Me, for instance. I want BS gone, but I wanted him gone when Rex got hired. He has done nothing to change my mind. I want Sanchez to work with a new OC. If he shows no progress, then we talk. I wish Rex would stop being a defense only baby. He does it well. But he has to do more than say I don't have anything to do with the offense, but I am the head coach, so blame me. That kind of responsibiity taking is childish. I don't want to hear that. I want to know he has a hand in everywhere. Then if they fail he really is responsible. The head coach cannot abdicate. Lip service does not do it for me. We all know he is hands off. And you know what? If he really knows nothing about offense, he should not be the head coach.

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So let me get this straight. The Jets moved up in the draft to pick a QB 5th overall that is average or one day may be "above" average. Really? Well excuse this old Jet fan for running out of patience with the 5th pick in the draft who makes the same mistakes over&over, could get sacked by a 7th grader, can't step up in the pocket & throw a 25yrd. dart, and could never carry a team by himself. I saw Simms, Elway, Marino&Jim Kelly as rookies and they had the physical attributes that can't be taught: pocket presence& a powerful arm with accuracy. Throw Aikman in there too. A 5th pick should be a stud who can dictate a game by himself.

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So let me get this straight. The Jets moved up in the draft to pick a QB 5th overall that is average or one day may be "above" average. Really? Well excuse this old Jet fan for running out of patience with the 5th pick in the draft who makes the same mistakes over&over, could get sacked by a 7th grader, can't step up in the pocket & throw a 25yrd. dart, and could never carry a team by himself. I saw Simms, Elway, Marino&Jim Kelly as rookies and they had the physical attributes that can't be taught: pocket presence& a powerful arm with accuracy. Throw Aikman in there too. A 5th pick should be a stud who can dictate a game by himself.

Phil Simms? Seriously? He was a quality QB, but he never carried anything. The guy was so ****ed up early in his career that when Parcells took over he benched him for Scott Brunner. Scott Brunner! He was also made out of glass. Elway and Marino are two of the all-time greats and Jim Kelly didn't even play in the NFL until he had a few years under his belt in the USFL. Not liking Sanchez physically is fine, but acting like all these guys were so much better isn't the point and it isn't even correct. I think we would all be happy if he had the career of those guys and would have been when the pick was made. For the record, Troy Aikman was historically bad as a rookie. That may be the actual problem. The Jets haven't let Sanchez loose to make horrible mistakes. Sure he makes them anyway, but it's not just letting it rip like Manning was allowed as a rookie.

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I think that it isn't fair to complain about the coaches and I don't have a huge problem with the drafts. Doesn't mean you can't complain about them. Mangini has been gone for 3 drafts. Under traditional reasoning, it's only just now that we can start rating the first draft without him. I think Tannenbaum has done a fine job. OTOH, I do think that it is fair to question him. Especially on any given decision. I am not a sunny Jets homer, but I think they are headed in the right direction. I spent my Saturday afternoon screaming at Sanchez, but I don't want him gone. I think Rex has been a great coach, but anybody talking about dumping him is a lunatic. This is a down season. The last time we had one, we reloaded and were rolling pretty well with Favre, Faneca and Woody. If the team is performing as well as they have you can complain, but talking about firing him or "blaming him" for being 8-7 is a bit much. 8-7 is not bad. We aren't the ******* Rams. Still, question away. The idea of firing him is just more fans calling for change for the sake of change though.

I've met him. Not fat enough.

Matt Leinart? Ewww! That was when I first started posting here. I was ready to go 4-12 with Patrick Ramsey that year. I agree that Sanchez may have benefitted a bit by sitting, but I don't think he or the team would have gained much by sitting behind stiffs like Clemens and Ainge. Those guys suck and are NFL backups at best. The team probably thought Clemens was better than he actually turned out. They probably could have inked a medium level vet looking to extend his career. Kerry Collins?

Absolute premium for Sanchez? C'mon. That wasn't much to move up that far. For Revis? Maybe, but I think that Tannenbaum should be commended for trying to lock him up longterm and going through all that the first year. It didn't work out, but it shows he knew the nature of the beast.

It's interesting. I HATE Parcells, particularly as a GM, but I do respect him a bit. Tuna always ran out of town after his turnarounds, but I'm pretty sure that he said that it was easier to get good than STAY good. I think that is what you are bashing Tannenbaum for now. Mike T is trying to improve a good team. It will be much easier to replace Wayne Hunter than to improve on a borderline starter type like Slauson or Smith.

Good stuff, Dom. I want to scream at you when I get to a computer.

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Phil Simms? Seriously? He was a quality QB, but he never carried anything. The guy was so ****ed up early in his career that when Parcells took over he benched him for Scott Brunner. Scott Brunner! He was also made out of glass. Elway and Marino are two of the all-time greats and Jim Kelly didn't even play in the NFL until he had a few years under his belt in the USFL. Not liking Sanchez physically is fine, but acting like all these guys were so much better isn't the point and it isn't even correct. I think we would all be happy if he had the career of those guys and would have been when the pick was made. For the record, Troy Aikman was historically bad as a rookie. That may be the actual problem. The Jets haven't let Sanchez loose to make horrible mistakes. Sure he makes them anyway, but it's not just letting it rip like Manning was allowed as a rookie.

Wait a second....in no way can anyone compare Sanchez to Marino or Elway...He will never be those guys. But in fairness to Sanchez as I have always said...he has not been given a chance...do I believe Sanchez can be a better QB yes with the proper guidance. Can Sanchez be a better game manager..yes with the proper OC....Sanchez makes stupid bone-headed mistakes that "some" past 3rd year QB's made, but not the really good ones like Elway and Marino etc.. You cannot place Sanchez in that category.

I still believe with a "proven" OC..Sanchez can and will improve..how much is the unknown....will it be enough to carry the team? That is unknown...will he be good enough to allow us or place us in a position to make the SB? most probably. Will he be good enough to win the SB?...unknown.

The x-factor in this discussion is are we as fans patient enough and is the Front Office patient enough to wait for Sanchez to potentially grow into a quality QB, especially with a team around him that can win the SB now? That's where I struggle....I like Sanchez...But I like Manning better.

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Simms never carried anything? How about Super Bowl MVP when the Giants beat Denver: 22-25 still a completion record for a SB. The whole point is Sanchez doesn't have the physical tools to keep any DC up all night and thats what a 5th pick overall should do. He looks a HS QB out there, what he lacks you can't teach.

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Simms never carried anything? How about Super Bowl MVP when the Giants beat Denver: 22-25 still a completion record for a SB. The whole point is Sanchez doesn't have the physical tools to keep any DC up all night and thats what a 5th pick overall should do. He looks a HS QB out there, what he lacks you can't teach.

Completion percentage is the #1 stat? He had an awesome game, but that team was built completely on, wait for it... defense and the running game. That was LT's team. I understand your point about the physical tools, but I don't fully agree. I see he won't be Marino or Elway, or Jeff George, or Drew Bledsoe, but I certainly think he could do what Simms did. Personally, I am actually bothered more by his head (seems to lock in on receivers, doesn't seem to see open guys, inaccurate) than his physical tools.

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Completion percentage is the #1 stat? He had an awesome game, but that team was built completely on, wait for it... defense and the running game. That was LT's team. I understand your point about the physical tools, but I don't fully agree. I see he won't be Marino or Elway, or Jeff George, or Drew Bledsoe, but I certainly think he could do what Simms did. Personally, I am actually bothered more by his head (seems to lock in on receivers, doesn't seem to see open guys, inaccurate) than his physical tools.

I am bothered by his head more than his physical tools myself. In game he's an idiot too often. That said, going forward the fact that he's got a 30/23 TD/TO and improved in his completion% is reason for optimism. It's a poor reason, but I think it says he's coachable. Even though he's really young and really dumb, he's still not a complete and utter dud all the time.

It just really sucks that he's such a reason this season is so meh.

Edited by SenorGato
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Completion percentage is the #1 stat? He had an awesome game, but that team was built completely on, wait for it... defense and the running game. That was LT's team. I understand your point about the physical tools, but I don't fully agree. I see he won't be Marino or Elway, or Jeff George, or Drew Bledsoe, but I certainly think he could do what Simms did. Personally, I am actually bothered more by his head (seems to lock in on receivers, doesn't seem to see open guys, inaccurate) than his physical tools.

Sanchez has plenty in terms of tools. He has plenty of arm, he's physically capable of being mobile enough. The height thing is so overblown it's ridiculous. He's as tall or taller than the game's 2 best QB's. You throw a football from your point of release not from the top of your head. They should measure shoulder height more than top-of-the-scalp height for QBs.

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Wait a second....in no way can anyone compare Sanchez to Marino or Elway...He will never be those guys. But in fairness to Sanchez as I have always said...he has not been given a chance...do I believe Sanchez can be a better QB yes with the proper guidance. Can Sanchez be a better game manager..yes with the proper OC....Sanchez makes stupid bone-headed mistakes that "some" past 3rd year QB's made, but not the really good ones like Elway and Marino etc.. You cannot place Sanchez in that category.

I still believe with a "proven" OC..Sanchez can and will improve..how much is the unknown....will it be enough to carry the team? That is unknown...will he be good enough to allow us or place us in a position to make the SB? most probably. Will he be good enough to win the SB?...unknown.

The x-factor in this discussion is are we as fans patient enough and is the Front Office patient enough to wait for Sanchez to potentially grow into a quality QB, especially with a team around him that can win the SB now? That's where I struggle....I like Sanchez...But I like Manning better.

this is the thing that keeps getting thrown out there: that the Jets are a "Super Bowl ready" team. Maybe they were last year but this year and from what I see for next year they won't be then either. There are a lot of holes in every part or position shall I say of this team. Starting with the defensive backfield-we are two safeties short-our LBing corps is way too slow up the middle to compete against what this league is turning into, which is the 2011 NFL offensive philosophy of attacking the middle of the field with TE's and slot receivers who can go across the middle. The D-line while pretty much our best unit still scares no offensive coordinators when it comes to pass rushers.

On the offensive side of the ball now they can state that Brandon Moore should have made the pro bowl because he didn't allow any QB hits but I saw a once steady as a rock player have his worst year on that line and Wayne Hunter-well enough said there.

The QB position has been discussed and dissected ad infinitum but lets just look at the Plan B and C guys. NOBODY wanted to see Brunell or O'Connell in there so we were stuck with Sanchez all year-big mistake and had it not been that Sanchez is a tough Mexican kid we would have been in real bad shape there. the running backs position was the worst we've seen since 2005 with a fat and slow Shonn Greene who couldn't turn the corner a couple of non-factors as far as in the running game in McKnight and Powell and a Tomlinson who has been done for 2 years now. We have a lot of holes to fill

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this is the thing that keeps getting thrown out there: that the Jets are a "Super Bowl ready" team. Maybe they were last year but this year and from what I see for next year they won't be then either. There are a lot of holes in every part or position shall I say of this team. Starting with the defensive backfield-we are two safeties short-our LBing corps is way too slow up the middle to compete against what this league is turning into, which is the 2011 NFL offensive philosophy of attacking the middle of the field with TE's and slot receivers who can go across the middle. The D-line while pretty much our best unit still scares no offensive coordinators when it comes to pass rushers.

On the offensive side of the ball now they can state that Brandon Moore should have made the pro bowl because he didn't allow any QB hits but I saw a once steady as a rock player have his worst year on that line and Wayne Hunter-well enough said there.

The QB position has been discussed and dissected ad infinitum but lets just look at the Plan B and C guys. NOBODY wanted to see Brunell or O'Connell in there so we were stuck with Sanchez all year-big mistake and had it not been that Sanchez is a tough Mexican kid we would have been in real bad shape there. the running backs position was the worst we've seen since 2005 with a fat and slow Shonn Greene who couldn't turn the corner a couple of non-factors as far as in the running game in McKnight and Powell and a Tomlinson who has been done for 2 years now. We have a lot of holes to fill

Well after Sunday's game....your right........have a great 2012.

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