bkjetfan Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Mr. Miyagi said "No such thing as bad student, just bad teacher, teacher say, student do" - makes so much sense How important is coaching and the system? Shotty's system was never more then mediocre, even Favre had issues with it. I think the "coaching and system" = Sanchez's gameplay. Always taught "not to lose the game". (bad coaching). 3 different people in Sanchez's ear (Shotty, Rex, Tom Moore) leads to the demise of Sanchez and the poor play. Here's a perfect example. Rex brought in 2009, defensive minded coach, great system, great teaching.. #1 defense in 2009, #3 2010 and #7 or 8 in 2011. Why should we believe that left overs from the Mangini era with Shotty as the play caller and his coaching staff was going to lead us to be a more then average offense when they were never really successful to begin with? This whole season was run the ball, no throw the ball, no run it, no throw it, if I were Sanchez i'd be confused as sh*t. Sanchez needs a system he's comfortable in, and you could see by the way he plays, he's lost. It's just point and shoot. There is no reading a coverage, reading a safety, knowing how to use your receivers. He's just taught to throw to the open guy. Mark thinks of it as throwing it to a guy that has 3-5 yards separation which he won't get with Santonio and Plax. All of that is the result of bad coaching. Yet you see Brady throw to Gronkowski with 2 people on him but he positions himself to make the catch and knows where to throw it. People still talk about when they are going to take the handcuffs off and let him just play. Name one other starting QB that doesnt try to extend the field? 2 plays of 40+ yards and Kerley threw the second longest pass of the season on Sunday for 41 yards! What kind of system is like Shotty's where everything is a pass within 10-15 yards 95% of the time? Is that good coaching? Is that playing it safe? NO, its just letting the opposing defense know we won't throw past 15 yards, we have no deep threat and Sanchez is limited which makes it easier for them to defend and our offense look worse then what it really is. It's common sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Sanchez needs a system he's comfortable in, and you could see by the way he plays, he's lost. Maybe send him back to USC? Where the receivers are always open and the line protects you forever and I think there's a unicorn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Mr. Miyagi said "No such thing as bad student, just bad teacher, teacher say, student do" - makes so much sense so eric smith is rex's fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkjetfan Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Eric Smith is just bad period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Eric Smith is just bad period but miyagi say no such thing as bad student Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Both. Fault is rarely the province of a single man in a team sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetman_67 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 The Coaching staff gets the fail here. Especially the OC and QB coach. They are responsible to identify problems and correct them in practice. Big time Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Clearly Sanchez cant even run a basic WCO (gee let me throw this 5 yrd pass to a D lineman.......twice) so how is that a coaching issue? Kinda like entrering a donkey (burro?) in the Kentucky Derby no? Jets clearly needed a splash to sell PSLs and with the demographics involved the spanish guy was a natural. From that perspective he did his job. Funny part is, NYJ wanted a hispanic superstar and paid a kings ransome while the Giants get one as a UFA in Victor Cruz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Clearly Sanchez cant even run a basic WCO (gee let me throw this 5 yrd pass to a D lineman.......twice) so how is that a coaching issue? Kinda like entrering a donkey (burro?) in the Kentucky Derby no? Jets clearly needed a splash to sell PSLs and with the demographics involved the spanish guy was a natural. From that perspective he did his job. Funny part is, NYJ wanted a hispanic superstar and paid a kings ransome while the Giants get one as a UFA in Victor Cruz. Something Sanchez said yesterday was very telling when he was talking about the 2nd pick. "Obviously, at all costs, we can't take a sack there." Someone has told him that because anyone with common sense knows a sack there wasn't the end of the world... So, I'd put that on coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetman_67 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Clearly Sanchez cant even run a basic WCO (gee let me throw this 5 yrd pass to a D lineman.......twice) so how is that a coaching issue? That is something that should have been corrected in practice. Technique and understanding in a real situation is what you practice for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffreon Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Look at Sanchez's progress.Its gone downhill just like the teams performance.I wanted him gone too, i was so pissed this year, but as I'm pondering what to do this offseason,I can't blame the kid.I don't think he knew which end was up as the year progressed, since all we heard was ground and pound which described pretty much what happened to the kid.He about got gun shy for a while especially when Mangold was out as he got his a$$ kicked every weekend.Lets not forget. He played much better the 2 previous years when he had some protection.Now for the real matter at hand. Improve the O line, get a big running back, Get a dam WR that can beat a defender down the field, and finally....shotty must go...MUST GO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Sanchez had 16 starts at USC. 16. No one else thought about that 3 years ago??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Sanchez had 16 starts at USC. 16. No one else thought about that 3 years ago??? Pete Carroll did. Said he could use a year more college time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Clearly Sanchez cant even run a basic WCO (gee let me throw this 5 yrd pass to a D lineman.......twice) so how is that a coaching issue? Kinda like entrering a donkey (burro?) in the Kentucky Derby no? Jets clearly needed a splash to sell PSLs and with the demographics involved the spanish guy was a natural. From that perspective he did his job. Funny part is, NYJ wanted a hispanic superstar and paid a kings ransome while the Giants get one as a UFA in Victor Cruz. Sanchez is the problem, Schott and Cavanaugh are good coaches, they are EZ targets resulting from Sanchize sukiness The New NFL,, where you cant hit either a QB (thanks to Phagboy in NE) and now WR's, has resulted in almost 6 QBS getting to 5000 yds G&P is dead, it is small ball, and leads to FG's, ask the Texans how running for 170 and passing just 16x went vs Indy. The rules say pass the ball and if your QB cant make all the throws, you are phucked in the arse. Sanchez is outright awful, terrible in pocket and is Tebow like in accuracy. There is so much effen film on him now, and everyone knows to jump his slants. He also is mentally incompetent and makes 5-6 major brainfarts each game(this came from my calls with gannon) he is making OL look gawd awful, changing into wrong plays, confusing the OL... I knew when he couldnt take advantage of the worlds worst ever secondary twice (patsies) it was a lost cause. Game Managers will be extinct as the NFL preaches safety and ties the hands of opposing Defenses. He is truly Trent Dilfer reborn Now can someone tell me what his suppose skill set is so that the new OC can fit plays to suit his lack of skill? Besides handing off. The Media and yes to a major extent the fans have crucified Schott, he knows 100x more than anyone of us. It is not his fault Tanny drafted a DUD. adieu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 More on Schitty and the Jets FO in my mind...anyone else catch the NFL Network interview with Matt Flynn...he discussed that he only started one year at LSU before coming out...appreciated the opportunity to work with the coaches and Aaron Rodgers to help him prepare for his opportunities... OTOH...Sanchez comes in with Schitty and a spanking brand head coach whose main focus was on the defense plus absolutuely zero competition for the QB job...add to this the absence of any facts that would suggest that Brian Schittenheimer can develop a QB or otherwise put together a quality offense and we have set the guy up for failure. IMO...we could pay big bucks to bring in Matt Flynn or even Cam Newton and within one season Schitty will turn him into the second coming of Chad Pennington... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 More on Schitty and the Jets FO in my mind...anyone else catch the NFL Network interview with Matt Flynn...he discussed that he only started one year at LSU before coming out...appreciated the opportunity to work with the coaches and Aaron Rodgers to help him prepare for his opportunities... OTOH...Sanchez comes in with Schitty and a spanking brand head coach whose main focus was on the defense plus absolutuely zero competition for the QB job...add to this the absence of any facts that would suggest that Brian Schittenheimer can develop a QB or otherwise put together a quality offense and we have set the guy up for failure. IMO...we could pay big bucks to bring in Matt Flynn or even Cam Newton and within one season Schitty will turn him into the second coming of Chad Pennington... Apples and Oranges in some regards. Flynn was not brought into to be the starter. He was drafted in the 7th round and was not even the first QB drafted by the Packers. He had no pressure on him. Sanchez was taken in the first round to be the savior. The "Sanchize". Couple that with over inflated expectations as the Jets made two improbable runs in the playoffs. All of sudden, entering 2011, your QB that was protected his first few seasons disappoints as he cannot compensate a worse team. I do agree that Flynn was set-up for success more than Sanchez due to coaching. McCarthy had the offensive pedigree. Flynn was allowed to develop and grow where as Sanchez was thrown feet first into the fire and had an average OC with a defensive HC. The Jets should have splurged on a upgrade at OC or a QB Coach that could be a bug in Sanchez's ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 That is something that should have been corrected in practice. Technique and understanding in a real situation is what you practice for. Sorry Jetman, when someone is short on natural ability it cant be fixed. I dont care if he had Bill Walsh or Vince Lombardi coaching him. Thats why the OCs game plan is so dumbed down and simple. He just cant do anything beyond small ball and other teams know it. Anything more is just well beyond the scope of his (lack of) talent. This guy really is Richard Todd 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenBeans Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I agree with Warfish, it is never just a single player or coach (especially in football). The facts are this: 1. Sanchez regressed in his ability to protect the football. This is true both in terms of fumbles and where he throws the ball. How many times did #6 throw into double/triple coverage this season? How many times did he get lucky and have a defensive back, line backer, or lineman drop a sure interception? This is an area you can fix, I think, via coaching. 2. Sanchez regressed in terms of throwing accurate passes. He was never Drew Brees accurate, but this season was his worst to date for delivering a well placed ball. This is not easy to correct, but it can be improved for certain. 3. Brian Schottenheimer's play selection did not consistently compliment what Sanchez does well. Sanchez has always seemed more comfortable throwing on the move, yet the Jets never consistently utilized designed rollouts for the kid. The times Schotty did call for a Sanchez rollout, they never took a shot down the field. Sanchez throwing deep on the move was called a bunch last year - this never materialized this season. 4. In the games where #6 was clearly struggling, Schottenheimer did not (as far as we know) make it a priority to run the ball. To be fair, this might land on Sanchez since he seemed enamored with shouting "Kill! Kill!" a lot this year. 5. Schottenheimer continually calling for empty backfield in 3rd and less then 6 situations. I love the shootgun, spread'em out and sling it stuff as much as anyone, but it takes away a ton of options from the offense. If Wayne Hunter is getting his butt whooped, do you really need to have no one in the backfield to help him out? We all hated the "Hackett Draw", but can you honestly say that Greene might not have gotten 5-6 yards on draws against the Pats, Giants, and Broncos? And just in general, declaring "pass" by formation for 3rd and less than 6 is just dumb. That's just the Schotty v. Sanchez stuff, the Offensive Line issues, front office moves, and defensive breakdowns are another animal all together. Just my take... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffreon Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Sanchez is not short on natural ability..hes been dumbed down and I dont know why and yes hes looked terrible lately, but look at his last minute game winning throws from just a year ago with pin point accuracy. Hes had it in him..just don't know whats happened.Could be locker room problems we dont know about yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Sanchez had 16 starts at USC. 16. No one else thought about that 3 years ago??? I wanted him to sit for a few years becayse if it, as did plenty if others .. Not saying that was the right call in retrospect (who knows) , just saying it was discussed a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenBeans Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I wanted him to sit for a few years becayse if it, as did plenty if others .. Not saying that was the right call in retrospect (who knows) , just saying it was discussed a lot I think this would have helped him out a ton as well, provided the right #1 QB was in place (aka not Kellen Clemens) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Sanchez had 16 starts at USC. 16. No one else thought about that 3 years ago??? That and the fact he never saw any adversity was the reason he was the one player I didnt want the Jets to draft. He played on a Varsity team in a JV conference. They rolled over teams and the one time they didnt, they lost. I wasnt fooled by his Rose Bowl. He was playing pitch and catch it was so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Apples and Oranges in some regards. Flynn was not brought into to be the starter. He was drafted in the 7th round and was not even the first QB drafted by the Packers. He had no pressure on him. Sanchez was taken in the first round to be the savior. The "Sanchize". Couple that with over inflated expectations as the Jets made two improbable runs in the playoffs. All of sudden, entering 2011, your QB that was protected his first few seasons disappoints as he cannot compensate a worse team. I do agree that Flynn was set-up for success more than Sanchez due to coaching. McCarthy had the offensive pedigree. Flynn was allowed to develop and grow where as Sanchez was thrown feet first into the fire and had an average OC with a defensive HC. The Jets should have splurged on a upgrade at OC or a QB Coach that could be a bug in Sanchez's ear. Apples and oranges...usually implies a false analogy...I'd argue that...draft status only sets expectations for the players and the fans...sometimes the organizational structure plays a part...look at Rodgers...first round pick but diminished expectations because he's playing behind Favre and has the opportunity to learn and feed the fire of a desire to play...could make a similar case with your boy Brady...although he was obviously ready when the call came... The Jets...and many other teams looking to change the fortunes...often over-dramatize the expectation level in order to drive sales/interest...Sanchez is now in a state of coulda/woulda/shoulda...adversity has that affect...the next several months will tell us a lot about the character of this young man...is he capable of turning it arund ala Eli Manning....or is he the next Rex Grossman... I have no idea...but the question is why I still follow the Jets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KINGDIRK Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QB is the most important position in sports, not offensive coordinator. Regardless of Shotty's own awfulness (and he is awful), Sanchez is one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL. In 47 games, Sanchez has turned the ball over 63 times; including a career worst in his 3rd year with 26. His completion % lingers in the mid 50s. This is absolutely unacceptable. All I read and see in the media is that Sanchez needs to have a strong running game and good defense in order to suceed. That sentance should scare every Jets fan alive. Here is an idea - get a QB that doesnt require everything to be perfect to suceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Here's the best way I can describe it... If you want to learn how to paint, and the only people teaching you can only draw stick figures, how are you ever going to learn how to paint successfully? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QB is the most important position in sports, not offensive coordinator. Regardless of Shotty's own awfulness (and he is awful), Sanchez is one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL. In 47 games, Sanchez has turned the ball over 63 times; including a career worst in his 3rd year with 26. His completion % lingers in the mid 50s. This is absolutely unacceptable. All I read and see in the media is that Sanchez needs to have a strong running game and good defense in order to suceed. That sentance should scare every Jets fan alive. Here is an idea - get a QB that doesnt require everything to be perfect to suceed. Thats disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Its a failure of both. Sanchez seems to absorb little. The same mistakes he made as a rookie he pretty much still makes now, except he does slide more when he runs. But the way they ran the offense this year did not fit his talents at all. You cant turn a good armed guy with no accuracy into a Hackett style QB.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Square peg round hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Its a failure of both. Sanchez seems to absorb little. The same mistakes he made as a rookie he pretty much still makes now, except he does slide more when he runs. But the way they ran the offense this year did not fit his talents at all. You cant turn a good armed guy with no accuracy into a Hackett style QB.. that was rex and sanchez i think.. in 2009 Sanchez was one of the league leaders in YPC.. then rex wanted more conservative offense, and i think they began not to trust sanchez which is why there is so many check downs now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 that was rex and sanchez i think.. in 2009 Sanchez was one of the league leaders in YPC.. then rex wanted more conservative offense, and i think they began not to trust sanchez which is why there is so many check downs now That would seem to imply that Rex is at fault...it goes to the point that there was not a consistent approach to developing a QB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 you're down 13 - 10, 8 minutes to go 1st and 10 at your own 47 you get pressure, someone hits you...... throw it up for grabs at the big scrum of lineman ? shotty doesn't coach that, c'mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 That would seem to imply that Rex is at fault...it goes to the point that there was not a consistent approach to developing a QB... I agree with that, i think they'd have been better off letting sanchez wing it around and just get smarter with his reads, rather then mixed signals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I agree with Warfish, it is never just a single player or coach (especially in football). The facts are this: 1. Sanchez regressed in his ability to protect the football. This is true both in terms of fumbles and where he throws the ball. How many times did #6 throw into double/triple coverage this season? How many times did he get lucky and have a defensive back, line backer, or lineman drop a sure interception? This is an area you can fix, I think, via coaching. 2. Sanchez regressed in terms of throwing accurate passes. He was never Drew Brees accurate, but this season was his worst to date for delivering a well placed ball. This is not easy to correct, but it can be improved for certain. 3. Brian Schottenheimer's play selection did not consistently compliment what Sanchez does well. Sanchez has always seemed more comfortable throwing on the move, yet the Jets never consistently utilized designed rollouts for the kid. The times Schotty did call for a Sanchez rollout, they never took a shot down the field. Sanchez throwing deep on the move was called a bunch last year - this never materialized this season. 4. In the games where #6 was clearly struggling, Schottenheimer did not (as far as we know) make it a priority to run the ball. To be fair, this might land on Sanchez since he seemed enamored with shouting "Kill! Kill!" a lot this year. 5. Schottenheimer continually calling for empty backfield in 3rd and less then 6 situations. I love the shootgun, spread'em out and sling it stuff as much as anyone, but it takes away a ton of options from the offense. If Wayne Hunter is getting his butt whooped, do you really need to have no one in the backfield to help him out? We all hated the "Hackett Draw", but can you honestly say that Greene might not have gotten 5-6 yards on draws against the Pats, Giants, and Broncos? And just in general, declaring "pass" by formation for 3rd and less than 6 is just dumb. That's just the Schotty v. Sanchez stuff, the Offensive Line issues, front office moves, and defensive breakdowns are another animal all together. Just my take... I disagree, you do not take a QB in top 5 pick if his strength is throwing on the run. it also takes away 1/2 the field and with his accuracy issues, just leads to more Ints. Jets had no running game, greene is not an everydown back. I also do not have a problem going empty set as every good team in NFL team does it. Rules are geared to passing game. Been watching Steelers and ravens go emptyset all the time. I also believe a new OC cant help him. he is afraid of staying in pocket, never seen a QB backpedal so much. It is too bad we paid $50M for this jalopy. QB's make OC's. Contrary to what most fans believe cavanaugh and schott are sharp, Schott is a EZ target, fact is he had a sh*tty QB go to AFC Title game twice in a row, The Defense was a major reason during the first year, but has since declined to average. The 7th leading def is a joke. Doesnt pass eye test and has sucked in many spurts. 4 more years of hell comin imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Why does Mark Sanchez look exactly like Kellen Clemens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I agree with that, i think they'd have been better off letting sanchez wing it around and just get smarter with his reads, rather then mixed signals With the right offensive staff I'd agree with that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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