Mike T's Road to Nowhere

[sirlancemehlot]

bump again from jan 12 and march 12....fun to see how opinions have developed.

[NJ]

Mike T needs to be replaced or teamed with someone. This thread probably won't be bumped next January - unless it's an I told you so.

[stoicsentry]

It hasn't been a single season of failure. It's been three seasons of failure. "But we made it the playoffs! Deep into the playoffs!", you say. And you are right. The team has had two succesful seasons followed by a season of Nowhere. Home. Season over. No playoffs, no playoff caliber team. The three season of failure belong to Mike Tannenbaum. Lets see, where to start.

WTF

Worst thread.

[stoicsentry]

And the two draft picks we gave up for a player thats no longer on the team. Or did you miss that part? because the loss of draft picks with no long term contributions from those we spent them on was the entire point, SMFH

Jason Trusnik.. a 5th round selection... Chansi Stuckey... garbage... all of these things are kinda like the others.

[dbatesman]

Jason Trusnik.. a 5th round selection... Chansi Stuckey... garbage... all of these things are kinda like the others.

17th overall pick...52nd overall pick...

[sirlancemehlot]

WTF

Worst thread.

It's actually a pretty good (but old) thread. Hell, it went six pages. Our little spat at the end was just happenstance--I didn't bump it to re-ignite hostilities. It was for the entire spirit of the JN community then and now. It's fun to look back sometimes and see how things have evolved, especially when the same issues arise that have been debated in the past. Like Tanny ignoring the Oline, and we still have a bad oline. I've been right and it's been born out...and I've been wrong and it's been born out months or years later. I only bump the ones that make me look good though. The ones where I totally suck are doomed to revel in the depths of obscurity, like the gimp child in the attic Grandma never acknowledged. But we all knew was there. We all knew.

[stoicsentry]

It's actually a pretty good (but old) thread. Hell, it went six pages. Our little spat at the end was just happenstance--I didn't bump it to re-ignite hostilities. It was for the entire spirit of the JN community then and now. It's fun to look back sometimes and see how things have evolved, especially when the same issues arise that have been debated in the past. Like Tanny ignoring the Oline, and we still have a bad oline. I've been right and it's been born out...and I've been wrong and it's been born out months or years later. I only bump the ones that make me look good though. The ones where I totally suck are doomed to revel in the depths of obscurity, like the gimp child in the attic Grandma never acknowledged. But we all knew was there. We all knew.

Hahah

Still don't think you're right though, well partially right but definitely not all right...

[BornJetsFan1983]

It hasn't been a single season of failure. It's been three seasons of failure. "But we made it the playoffs! Deep into the playoffs!", you say. And you are right. The team has had two succesful seasons followed by a season of Nowhere. Home. Season over. No playoffs, no playoff caliber team. The three season of failure belong to Mike Tannenbaum. Lets see, where to start.

Jets needs the past three years have been basically the same. O-line depth. Pass rusher. Safety. Tight end. Three seasons have passed and what have we done to correct these weaknesses?

For one, we addressed these weaknesses by ignoring them, dismantling a decent recieving corps and chasing cornerbacks. "But what sense does that make?" you ask. Dunno, ask MT.

To be fair, we did get a first round cornerback to contribute in Wilson. And we did address O-line depth by drafting Vladimir Ducasse with a second round pick. Of course they both suck and were not worth their picks. No biggie, I guess.

We lose D. Woody. Uh, Oh. Now that O-line is even thinner. We are now starting Slauson and Hunter and have lost Turner in the preseason. Good thing we lost him early enough to replace hime with a veteran backup. Colin Baxter. Who starts at Center when Mangold goes down and we scratch two games right off the bat. Seriously should not have happened. Ducasse doesn't make the field.

We trade mid-season for Caleb Shladeraff.

Lets go back a bit further though, shall we? Say, 2009

Jets traded for cornerback Lito Sheppard of the Philadelphia Eagles, sending the Eagles a 2009 fifth-round draft pick and a 2010 conditional draft pick.^[14] The pick can be as high as second and as low as fourth. Upon the trade, Sheppard received a four-year, $27.2 million contract extension.

On October 7, the Jets made a blockbuster deal with the Cleveland Browns to send Wide Receiver Braylon Edwards to the Jets for Wide Receiver Chansi Stuckey, Linebacker Jason Trusnik, and 2 draft picks.

Niether player is still with this team. Total cost: 4 draft picks and two players. There is way too much of this trading away of picks for me to go on that tangent, but suffice to say, our depth is horrendous due to this very problem. Add to that the waste of picks like Scotty McKnight (when Joe Lefeged-S and Herzlich-LB were stuill available at positions of need) and two picks for Joe McKnight when we already had Woodhead and...you get the picture.

Finally...The WR corps. Sanchez had a decent corps in Holmes, B. Smith, Cotchery and Braylon. In fact, he had great relationships with three of those four, who even flew out to LA in the offseason to get better aquainted and work on the playbook and timing. One of those receivers didn't bother to go. The one we kept. The other three were let go for the likes of Plaxico Burress and Derrick Mason. A position of strength became a position of need that quick. And down goes Sanchez (who admittedly needs all the help he can get.)

In the end I'm just scratching the surface here. So much more can be said about the retaining of Schottenheimer, lousy drafts, and on and on. Bottom line, Tanny has done a poor job and this team has suffered tremendously for it.

i like this post

[Lizard King]

It hasn't been a single season of failure. It's been three seasons of failure. "But we made it the playoffs! Deep into the playoffs!", you say. And you are right. The team has had two succesful seasons followed by a season of Nowhere. Home. Season over. No playoffs, no playoff caliber team. The three season of failure belong to Mike Tannenbaum. Lets see, where to start.

Jets needs the past three years have been basically the same. O-line depth. Pass rusher. Safety. Tight end. Three seasons have passed and what have we done to correct these weaknesses?

For one, we addressed these weaknesses by ignoring them, dismantling a decent recieving corps and chasing cornerbacks. "But what sense does that make?" you ask. Dunno, ask MT.

To be fair, we did get a first round cornerback to contribute in Wilson. And we did address O-line depth by drafting Vladimir Ducasse with a second round pick. Of course they both suck and were not worth their picks. No biggie, I guess.

We lose D. Woody. Uh, Oh. Now that O-line is even thinner. We are now starting Slauson and Hunter and have lost Turner in the preseason. Good thing we lost him early enough to replace hime with a veteran backup. Colin Baxter. Who starts at Center when Mangold goes down and we scratch two games right off the bat. Seriously should not have happened. Ducasse doesn't make the field.

We trade mid-season for Caleb Shladeraff.

Lets go back a bit further though, shall we? Say, 2009

Jets traded for cornerback Lito Sheppard of the Philadelphia Eagles, sending the Eagles a 2009 fifth-round draft pick and a 2010 conditional draft pick.^[14] The pick can be as high as second and as low as fourth. Upon the trade, Sheppard received a four-year, $27.2 million contract extension.

On October 7, the Jets made a blockbuster deal with the Cleveland Browns to send Wide Receiver Braylon Edwards to the Jets for Wide Receiver Chansi Stuckey, Linebacker Jason Trusnik, and 2 draft picks.

Niether player is still with this team. Total cost: 4 draft picks and two players. There is way too much of this trading away of picks for me to go on that tangent, but suffice to say, our depth is horrendous due to this very problem. Add to that the waste of picks like Scotty McKnight (when Joe Lefeged-S and Herzlich-LB were stuill available at positions of need) and two picks for Joe McKnight when we already had Woodhead and...you get the picture.

Finally...The WR corps. Sanchez had a decent corps in Holmes, B. Smith, Cotchery and Braylon. In fact, he had great relationships with three of those four, who even flew out to LA in the offseason to get better aquainted and work on the playbook and timing. One of those receivers didn't bother to go. The one we kept. The other three were let go for the likes of Plaxico Burress and Derrick Mason. A position of strength became a position of need that quick. And down goes Sanchez (who admittedly needs all the help he can get.)

In the end I'm just scratching the surface here. So much more can be said about the retaining of Schottenheimer, lousy drafts, and on and on. Bottom line, Tanny has done a poor job and this team has suffered tremendously for it.

Wonderfully said. So much covered yet just scratching the surface.

[Larz]

if the ducasse pick pans out, and edwards stays out of trouble, he's a legend

he's "trader mike" the super salesman who could even convince brett farve to play here

[Bugg]

Read bolded text. LMFAO.

Team had two successful seasons...Tanny had three unsuccessful seasons. Leading to the team having an unsuccessful season ultimately. Pretty clear. Three seasons of bad drafting and poor personnel moves eventually led to a less talented, competitve team. i think you understand the statement. Or perhaps you were just LMFAOing so hard you missed it.

Chansi Stuckey and Jerricho Cotchery?

Cotchery, Edwards, Smith but you knew that already

Wilson is a fine player.

first rounder. plays nickel. but you already knew that too.

What's your problem with Slauson, exactly?

No problem. but the quote was Hunter and Slauson. You can have a slow footed slauson who can't pull of block downfield, or a Wayne Hunter who can run block but is a turnstyle on the edge...just not both at the same time.

How will we recover from the loss of Chansi Stuckey and Jason Trusnik? SMFH.

And the two draft picks we gave up for a player thats no longer on the team. Or did you miss that part? because the loss of draft picks with no long term contributions from those we spent them on was the entire point, SMFH

No mention that Mike T. created that WR corps, huh?

Yep. Didn't mention that he assembled then dissassembled that WR corps within two seasons, leaving just the $50 million dollar man. Didn't mention it because I think it speaks for itself.

The NFL has a salary cap.

Sure does. which is why you draft and develop the cheap players. Draft and develop. There's a novel idea.

Please, don't. This is enough to hit the "ignore" button.

Such indignation! Such vitriol! It's enough to make me say something rude in response. But I don't do that.

I think the world of rex Ryan.

But here in year 4 we're looking into the abyss because in part we invested heavily in a llama ranch called Mark Sanchez and, as bad and may be worse, the GM has done practically nothing to develop talent and depth across all units. It's one thing to miss on a few picks, but quite another to trade away a mess of them to move up and then proceed to miss on the few depth slots later round picks you barely possess. You can justify trading up for Revis, but spare that one big exception going back as far as Roberston it's been a debacle of draft day misses. Either he is the GM and he's responsible or SOMEBODY(Clinkscale? Bradway?) is.

This is going to be as bad as Herman Edwards' last season.

[gangreenman]

Haven't taken the time to read the whole thread.... But disagree on several premises.

You claim three seasons of failure... Lets see. That would be referring to the off seasons leading to 2010, 2011, 2012.

2010:

Acquired Antonio Cromartie via trade (for picks)

Acquired Santonio Holmes via trade (for picks)

Drafted Kyle Wilson

Drafted Vlad Ducasse

Re-signed Mangold,Harris, Brick, Revis (holdout year)

Signed LaDanian Tomlinson

2011:

Drafted M Wilkerson

Signed Aaron Maybin

Re-signed Santonio Holmes

Re-signed Antonio Cromartie

Signed Plaxico Burress

Signed Derrick Mason

Drafted Jeremy Kerley

2012 (so far):

Signed Laron Landry

Signed Yeremiah Bell

Drafted Quinton Coples

Drafted Stephen Hill

Drafted Allen

Drafted Bush

Drafted White

Acquired Tebow via trade

So... going back to your point thet: "Jets needs the past three years have been basically the same. O-line depth. Pass rusher. Safety. Tight end. Three seasons have passed and what have we done to correct these weaknesses?"

Pass rusher: signed Maybin, drafted Coples, drafted Wilkerson

Safety: Signed Landry, Signed Bell, Re-signed Smith, Drafted Allen, Drafted Bush.

OL Depth: Drafted Ducasse, traded for Raff

Tight End: Acquired Baker and Cumberland

I think its unfair to say that Tannenbaum's last three years have been such a failure. Have they been mistake free? Of course not. Right Tackle is definitely a big issue, and I would like to see them add a better blocking TE. As for the other elements (Pass rusher and Safety)...I think those are two positions he has addressed the past couple of seasons.

Your next claim is that he dismantled our WR corps and chased cornerbacks... While I was never really on board with the whole Asomougha thingy, he still was able to keep Cro and add Wilson, who has become pretty solid. So can't blame him too much for that. As for WR, he re-signed holmes, and wouldn't give Braylon Edwards a contract...Something he didn't receive until TC started, a 1 year deal from the 49ers, who opted to let him go as well after the season. Not sure the reasoning exactly, but no one around the league seems to be able to trust the guy. Other then that, he honored Cotch's request to be released and signed vets like Plax and Mason. Did it work out? No. But where was he wrong?

God willing, Holmes and Kerley get healthy, and Hill steps up. That could turn into a pretty solid trio for the next few years. So I'm not with ya there either.

Right Tackle/OL I am totally with you. If there has been a glaring fault of Tanny's, its his failure to really shore up that unit over the past two off seasons. Especially this one, when the OL was clearly a big weakness of our team this past season. How he can sit back and just hope things turn around, without making any moves for even an insurance policy, is beyond me. Ridiculous.

As for '09... Thats the year he brought in Rex, Sanchez, Scott, Leonhard, and Edwards. Have all of his trades worked out for the long haul? Unfortunately, not. But hindsight is also 20/20. While it would be nice if he did keep more of his picks, I prefer a GM that is willing to go out and take risks to improve the team rather then one that sits on his hands just for the purpose of saving picks to draft for depth.

[CoachTsurfing]

Gholston would have burned every team in the leauge if they picked 6th that year. He was across the board the consensus... it just happened to be SOJ luck that we had that pick.

nope, I was so against it and new the guy was going to be a bust. and I wasn't the only one. there we plenty of people on this board calling him a bust. sometimes you just see a guy and know he's going to suck. and no i'm not a genius or football guru.

[RevisIsland610]

It's good to see people finally realizing the Tannenbum really isn't the genious so many professed him to be a few years ago. This team is less talented and has less depth than it did a few years ago. He has had a bad couple of years and it shows. The offense is pop warner quality and who should be faulted for that - the supposed GM. I will never understand how he could do absolutely nothing to upgrade the O-line which is arguably this teams biggest weakness. How he did nothing to upgrade the RT position when there were draft and FA options available is beyond my comprehension, plus the fact that the depth of this unit is a travesty. I'm usually optomistic about this team but I honestly feel the offensive line performance this year will be abysmal and be the main reason this team faulters. The good news is that this will probably lead to Tannebum packing his bags.

[gangreenman]

It's good to see people finally realizing the Tannenbum really isn't the genious so many professed him to be a few years ago. This team is less talented and has less depth than it did a few years ago. He has had a bad couple of years and it shows. The offense is pop warner quality and who should be faulted for that - the supposed GM. I will never understand how he could do absolutely nothing to upgrade the O-line which is arguably this teams biggest weakness. How he did nothing to upgrade the RT position when there were draft and FA options available is beyond my comprehension, plus the fact that the depth of this unit is a travesty. I'm usually optomistic about this team but I honestly feel the offensive line performance this year will be abysmal and be the main reason this team faulters. The good news is that this will probably lead to Tannebum packing his bags.

The D is all world type good. The offense is bad. Tanny missed on Sanchez and Ducasse, those two, more then anything, have done him in on that side of the ball.

And I hope Tanny stays for awhile. Six years ago he inherited a dumpy-old team of nobodies and has-beens and has turned them around to the extent that of the past six seasons, only one of them ended in a losing record, three of them resulted in playoff appearances (2 deep playoff appearances), and one with a .500 record. Is it OMGRIDCULAWESOME results? No. But it is far better then any other 6 year span in Jets history.