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Opinion Welcomed Regarding San-blow-me-oh Holmes


Jet27
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After watcing these videos I just cant for the life of me figure out why we didnt throw down field this year. Obviously Mark is better at those passes than some short ones! I guess it comes back to time in pocket though.

There is one in there where he throws about 60 yards while on the run.

At 1:45 in the last video posted. TD to Holmes in Pitt game.

Edited by sh4dy15
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Of course he's fast, he's just not a burner take the top off of the defense fast like you can see Braylon was for us in that clip.

I disagree, Braylon ran more deeper routes cause that's basically all he was good at as a receiver. ( was a good blocker though ;) )...He had no quickness in the middle of the field to take short passes for big gains like Santonio, I'm sure I can find highlights of Santonio running straight down the field and getting hit deep. Ultimately can't prove it I'm almost certain Holmes 40 time was faster then Edwards, but that's not proof

Edited by CTM
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1:25.....dragging two Pats into the endzone. Damn I miss that guy.

They were great together, i know its wishful thinking but it would be great to see them attempt it.

Why is it wishful thinking? Braylon is unemployed right now. After his two drunken stunts at the end of last season. The one car 3am crash, and the fight in the bar the day after he went to court that two guys got stabbed in. he played for near min. last year.

Now an early season injury that left him with 17 catches, his options are very limited.

Rex lays a lil charm on him he'll be on a plane back to NYC before Rex get the slice of pizza down

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I disagree, Braylon ran more deeper routes cause that's basically all he was good at as a receiver. ( was a good blocker though ;) )...He had no quickness in the middle of the field to take short passes for big gains like Santonio, I'm sure I can find highlights of Santonio running straight down the field and getting hit deep. Ultimately can't prove it I'm almost certain Holmes 40 time was faster then Edwards, but that's not proof

Coles had one of the fastest 40's ever and he never played to that speed.

I mean Braylon was never Calvin Johnson, but he had the ability to run the power fade down the sideline and score on the bomb, which defenses obviously had to respect. We had none of that this year, and it hurt our passing game. FWIW, Megatron doesnt take many short passes for big gainers either.

Holmes is quicker in and out of cuts but Braylon was the better deep threat.

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Not fast enough to be a break away threat

Not big enough to be a physical imposition

A "me first" attitude (the dropping the ball after each first down is real annoying)

The first to shrink at the first sign of adversity on the club

Not respected in the locker room or huddle

What is there to like? If the Jets had a qb that could make lots of time in the pocket by scurrying, he would be more valuable (they don't, and the line is bad).

With a talent like Chad Johnson or Terrell Owens, you could understand the prima donna attitude. When it comes from a middling WR as this, it is downright annoying

Oh, and ever notice how when there is a route miscommunication between qb and wr, it is 90% of the time on a route that Holmes ran. Think that is just coincidence?

This.

and Ill add OVERRATED and OVERPAID

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Watching those videos are good for the soul

Completely different QB. Looks off the safety...pocket presence.....throws on the run...steps up in the pocket...throws to other than his primary receivers......deep balls.

WTF happened? Had to be some combo of shell shocked, locker room cancers and injury that has seen him fall to the horrific QB we saw down the stretch this season.

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Completely different QB. Looks off the safety...pocket presence.....throws on the run...steps up in the pocket...throws to other than his primary receivers......deep balls.

WTF happened? Had to be some combo of shell shocked, locker room cancers and injury that has seen him fall to the horrific QB we saw down the stretch this season.

I know...its actually strange to watch. But if you notice he has so much more time in the pocket.

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He did...he stumbled out his break on that one...never got his feet. Did he look slow when he burned 3 DB's vs. Cleveland or how bout when he beat Clark long in the AFCG?

Are you actually using a play where the D Back fell down as an example of how he is a deep threat?

What a holmes homer you are.

And by the way that was a great throw by Sanchez on the run...

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The bomb is an easy throw to make....we just didnt have a guy on the outside this year with the ability to beat his man.

Dome game, bad defense...Sanchez will always look decent in those games.

Edwards had his man beat by 2 yards. Sanchez underthrew it, Edwards had to slow down for the pass, and the only reason it was completed was the DB fell down.

That's a USC Sanchez play. Sanchez didn't have a good game. Everyone looks like they had a good game years later when all you show are the completed passes (completed to his own receivers).

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Edwards had his man beat by 2 yards. Sanchez underthrew it, Edwards had to slow down for the pass, and the only reason it was completed was the DB fell down.

That's a USC Sanchez play. Sanchez didn't have a good game. Everyone looks like they had a good game years later when all you show are the completed passes (completed to his own receivers).

Yeah thats because every throw other QB's in the NFL make always hit the WR in stride perfectly.

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hehe :) . Lets see what happens with the changes this offseason

I have to tell you bro, I wish like crazy you're right & I'm dead wrong. I don't see how anyone can look at Sanchez and see the seeds of a decent QB. He doesn't see, he doesn't throw accurately, he doesn't process information quicky on the fly, and he's HS girl sulky.

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I have to tell you bro, I wish like crazy you're right & I'm dead wrong. I don't see how anyone can look at Sanchez and see the seeds of a decent QB. He can't see, he doesn't throw accurately, he can't process information quicky on the fly, and he's HS girl sulky.

I think the throwing and accuracy is the least of his problems and will be different in a new offense. He has a strong arm so Im not sure what your problem is there . When it comes to reading defenses and going through his progressions thats where we need to see Improvement and maybe a fresh perspective is what he needs along with a less predictable offense and play caller.

We need a few playmakers on offense so we can spread out the defense and that will work wonders IMO. Our Offense scares no one and its obvious everyone plays us up tight you mix that in with bad protection and you have major issues going through reads or getting the ball downfield. Its easy to Blame all of that on Sanchez but I have seen instances contrary to that belief.

Like I said Sperm I could be 100 % wrong we'll just have to wait and see what happens this year with hopefully some new players and a new system in place. Remember this team was built to run the football so expecting them to put up large passing numbers or turning a switch on and off is not fair. We are bad at protecting the QB and we are even worse at reading blitzes and once again thats not just the QB.

With an outsiders fresh persepctive (sparano) I think shotty's offense will be exposed. God only knows what his methods were in teaching this kid to play the position as well

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I think the throwing and accuracy is the least of his problems and will be different in a new offense. He has a strong arm so Im not sure what your problem is there . When it comes to reading defenses and going through his progressions thats where we need to see Improvement and maybe a fresh perspective is what he needs along with a less predictable offense and play caller.

We need a few playmakers on offense so we can spread out the defense and that will work wonders IMO. Our Offense scares no one and its obvious everyone plays us up tight you mix that in with bad protection and you have major issues going through reads or getting the ball downfield. Its easy to Blame all of that on Sanchez but I have seen instances contrary to that belief.

Like I said Sperm I could be 100 % wrong we'll just have to wait and see what happens this year with hopefully some new players and a new system in place. Remember this team was built to run the football so expecting them to put up large passing numbers or turning a switch on and off is not fair. We are bad at protecting the QB and we are even worse at reading blitzes and once again thats not just the QB.

With an outsiders fresh persepctive (sparano) I think shotty's offense will be exposed. God only knows what his methods were in teaching this kid to play the position as well

I never said squat about his arm strength (which is more than adequate) or large passing totals. That has never been a gripe of mine.Arguably the best game of his entire career was the Bengals playoff game and he had under 200 yards and 1 TD. NFL history is overloaded with big arm QBs who sucked. No one is making that argument so your response doesn't address the problems outlined.

We were particularly bad at times at protecting the QB, but not as bad as Sanchez made it seem. Watch the playoffs and you'll see plenty of plays where a QB would have been sacked in under 2 seconds if he didn't step up in or out of the pocket, and the result is a completed pass instead of a sack. Every good or great QB doesn't have 4-6 seconds of non-pressure to do something, but the excuses for Sanchez would seem to indicate people think that is the case.

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I think the throwing and accuracy is the least of his problems and will be different in a new offense.

Why? Does a new offense not require him to put the ball in the correct spot? What about a new offense stops him from throwing behind receivers?

These are exactly the reasons people say the coordinator is not the problem. I can't imagine Schotty calling for an inaccurate pass or a late throw.

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I never said squat about his arm strength (which is more than adequate) or large passing totals. That has never been a gripe of mine.Arguably the best game of his entire career was the Bengals playoff game and he had under 200 yards and 1 TD. NFL history is overloaded with big arm QBs who sucked. No one is making that argument so your response doesn't address the problems outlined.

We were particularly bad at times at protecting the QB, but not as bad as Sanchez made it seem. Watch the playoffs and you'll see plenty of plays where a QB would have been sacked in under 2 seconds if he didn't step up in or out of the pocket, and the result is a completed pass instead of a sack. Every good or great QB doesn't have 4-6 seconds of non-pressure to do something, but the excuses for Sanchez would seem to indicate people think that is the case.

Why? Does a new offense not require him to put the ball in the correct spot? What about a new offense stops him from throwing behind receivers?

These are exactly the reasons people say the coordinator is not the problem. I can't imagine Schotty calling for an inaccurate pass or a late throw.

Sperm I did state in my post that he needs to improve his reads and going through his progressions quicker. I think this is his main problem and I think it is correctable. Hurrying can cause accuracy problems.

Some posters here compared Eli Mannings first 3 years to Sanchez . If you look closely at Mannings first 3 years he was even worse in Comp. Percentage than Sanchez to the tune of low to mid 50's he was very innacurate. Now he has weapons all over the field and a different OC and all of a sudden the guys is in the mid 60's so yes talent and a new system does make a difference. Not to mention at some point with these QB's a light goes on and they become much more comfortable in what they are doing or asked to do. All we can do is hope the same thing happens with Sanchez if it does not we ship his a$$ out of here and Im fine with that as well. i think we will have our answers at some point next year.

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Some posters here compared Eli Mannings first 3 years to Sanchez . If you look closely at Mannings first 3 years he was even worse in Comp. Percentage than Sanchez to the tune of low to mid 50's he was very innacurate. Now he has weapons all over the field and a different OC and all of a sudden the guys is in the mid 60's so yes talent and a new system does make a difference. Not to mention at some point with these QB's a light goes on and they become much more comfortable in what they are doing or asked to do. All we can do is hope the same thing happens with Sanchez if it does not we ship his a$$ out of here and Im fine with that as well. i think we will have our answers at some point next year.

Eli Manning is one player. N=1. He's also a very different player, so I don't why people are hanging their hat on this comparison.

Our "awful WRs, TEs, and RBs" still get open from time to time, and when that happens, Sanchez still throws behind them or over their heads. It's not really about completion percentage, it's about throwing the ball in the right spot so the receiver can keep going after the catch as well as not having to turn around to grab the ball.

But, ultimately, you did say it, "all you can do is hope". If your entire feeling on Sanchez is admittedly predicated on "hope", then I get it. That's fine.

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How about the time he criticized the o-line?

For those that think Holmes is a whiney bitch JUST because the qb had an erratic year, well you are dreaming. As much as you criticize the Sanchez supporters, you deserve back for backing the cancer that is Holmes

I missed it last year. My bad.

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Eli Manning is one player. N=1. He's also a very different player, so I don't why people are hanging their hat on this comparison.

Our "awful WRs, TEs, and RBs" still get open from time to time, and when that happens, Sanchez still throws behind them or over their heads. It's not really about completion percentage, it's about throwing the ball in the right spot so the receiver can keep going after the catch as well as not having to turn around to grab the ball.

But, ultimately, you did say it, "all you can do is hope". If your entire feeling on Sanchez is admittedly predicated on "hope", then I get it. That's fine.

Yes it always is predicated on hope when you look for a player to improve from year to year. Im very confident the problem with the Jets is at every level of the offense and yes some of that includes Mark Sanchez. We all saw how bad the O-Line played this year and while some of the plays can be chalked up to bad decisions by Sanchez you cant ignore the fact at times he got hammered before he could even set himself, many times blindsided. That messes with your internal clock and disrupts the entire offense. Thats just the O-Line.

Many times this year we saw QB and WR NOT on the same page none of us can make a call on that because we dont have the playbook and we dont have the film but Im pretty sure its not just the QB every single time. Most offensive coordinators adapt to the problems a team faces due to liabilities in personnel especially when facing a team like the Ravens without your center and a RT and LT that could not pass block to save their lives. Yet we did not see adjustment we saw our QB get hammered on damn near very throw and hammered HARD. This did not only happen in the Ravens game it happened all year long and if you think that does not effect a QB I dont know what else to tell you.

Im not a big fan of our WR's corp. The only one I have any use for is Jeremy Kerley he seems like a very smart kid while Santonio seems like a moron and Plax was a temporary band aid and Keller needs to really toughen up over the middle and get rid of those freakin alligator arms. QB's and WR's build and grow by playing together for years you can see tons of examples as WR's and QB's grow together their stats grow as well as do the offenses in general. I do not believe Sanchez has had this luxury since he has had to deal with major changes in 2 sometimes 3 repl;acements at the position which tells you the Jets are not particularly happy with their Wideouts either. A problem must exist if they keep bringing in new guys.

There are a couple of true #1's out their this year in FA and Im not sure what the draft will bring or how the Jets will handle the draft but we need a #1 WR and a Dual Threat RB to get our offense where it needs to be to compete with the other explosive offenses in the league. If they can be loaded down with talent No reason why we cant After all this is as many of you say "an offensive league" So my answer to that is then give our QB weapons to succeed. The jets have ignored the offensive skill postions in the draft for long enough its time for a change .

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Yes it always is predicated on hope when you look for a player to improve from year to year.

Not really. The only elite player today that I can think of that didn't flash strong signals of being a great player in thier first 6-8 pro games is brees

I never hope Revis was going to be a great cb, it was obvious early. Same with Rodgers and Brady and manning and suh and aj green and megaton and cam newton , etc...

Edited by CTM
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Not really. The only elite player today that I can think of that didn't flash strong signals of being a great player in thier first 6-8 pro games is brees

I never hope Revis was going to be a great cb, it was obvious early. Same with Rodgers and Brady and manning and suh and aj green and megaton and cam newton , etc...

Wait some consider Eli moving to elite status yet his first season he didnt even break 50% completion (was 48.7) and played horribly actully he played bad his first 3 seasons but made huge strides with a new OC and the team surrounding him with Big,Tall, Fast, WR's and a nice duo in the back field.

Brady got no respect his first season and was basicly a game manager on a team with a great defense he didnt start to heat up until the playoffs and his Defense shut everyone down that year including the high powered Rams in the SB. If we had a truly elite defense in Sanchez first year in the playoffs they would have shut Manning down just like the Pats used to do every single year. Right ?

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Wait some consider Eli moving to elite status yet his first season he didnt even break 50% completion (was 48.7) and played horribly actully he played bad his first 3 seasons but made huge strides with a new OC and the team surrounding him with Big,Tall, Fast, WR's and a nice duo in the back field.

Brady got no respect his first season and was basicly a game manager on a team with a great defense he didnt start to heat up until the playoffs and his Defense shut everyone down that year including the high powered Rams in the SB. If we had a truly elite defense in Sanchez first year in the playoffs they would have shut Manning down just like the Pats used to do every single year. Right ?

Makes sense...we had the 3rd ranked D in 2009....slipped in 2010 and slipped even further in 2011. The only way is if our D cracks top 5 in 2012 and our running game cracks top 3....if that happens we will be in the AFCC game again and perhaps a first round bye.

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Makes sense...we had the 3rd ranked D in 2009....slipped in 2010 and slipped even further in 2011. The only way is if our D cracks top 5 in 2012 and our running game cracks top 3....if that happens we will be in the AFCC game again and perhaps a first round bye.

Its going to be hard to get a first round Bye in this division with the Pats because the Pats just dont lose often to teams they should beat ..... we do. Until we change that we wont be winning that division while the Pats have the type of offense they do.

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Its going to be hard to get a first round Bye in this division with the Pats because the Pats just dont lose often to teams they should beat ..... we do. Until we change that we wont be winning that division while the Pats have the type of offense they do.

I feel we will improve this coming year, it sucks that we have to wait but it is what it is, and to be honest if we would have won the Raiders game, or the Broncos game or the Giants game...we would be discussing something completely different right now.

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Its going to be hard to get a first round Bye in this division with the Pats because the Pats just dont lose often to teams they should beat ..... we do. Until we change that we wont be winning that division while the Pats have the type of offense they do.

No one is going to be winning the division while Brady is playing. Until he retires, the rest are playing for WC

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