sirlancemehlot Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 He's fully guaranteed for 2012's salary. The Jets have ZERO leverage here, plus he's untradable with his ridiculous contract. I mean seriously, what was the FO thinking with some of these contracts? He's not going anywhere, so speculating who will replace him is fruitless. Yeah this is about how I see it. Why would Scott seek a trade? It's not like someone is going to offer him more than he'll make in 2012. And if a team was willing to absorb his contract, would they be willing to part with a draft pick to boot? This seems like another FO ploy to push scott into yet another re-structure. Except they have nothing to offer Scott and nothing to threaten him with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GronkWelkHead Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 This is great. From here on out, when ever I want to try telling someone they're wrong, I'm just going to repeat what they said verbatim and put a question mark on the end of it. Or you could selectively edit the offending post and again ignore the points made. I'll type more slowly so maybe you can comprehend my meaning. Reducing the cap by $29 million is not only NOT easy and a pipe dream, it is impossible. Finding another team who will want to trade for a slow, part time, 32 year old linebacker with a bad attitude and a lousy, bloated contract is quite unlikely. Good luck with that. Savvy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Or you could selectively edit the offending post and again ignore the points made. Cutting out retarded uses of diareses and quotation marks isn't selective editing. It's help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'm not 100% sure but I think this is what may happen, if the Jets are able to trade Scott. Let's say they give a team Scott and a 5th round draft pick and say get a 7th in return. The Jets will save under the salary cap if this were to happen. Only the prorated bonus will accelerate the rest will be wiped out so about $3m saved under the cap. I think that the Jets would still have to pay Scott the $4+m in guaranteed money, not 100% sure but I think so. This is why he'd take the minimum to play somewhere else, I mean he's already getting paid by the Jets but it won't count on the cap. Would you take on Scott's current contract, no way, and Scott would not just give up $4m, so I think that is how it works but I'm trying to find out for sure. http://www.nyjetscap...tscotttrade.php Its salary though. I think his new team would have to pay that and of course they would restructure. The Jets have left themselves an out. Thats why theyve allowed Scott to seek a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Not sure why you are pointing me to a post that is rife with inaccuracies and incorrect assumptions? Play hardball with Sanchez by threatening to cut him? If I were he I call that bluff. Who are you going to replace him with? His salary is guaranteed as well, no? Convert Bart Scott's salary to a three year prorated signing bonus? This is the same guy you hope to trade? Saying it's "easy" to create $29 million in cap room is really quite funny in its naïveté. Popularity Actually Sanchez contract is not guaranteed. If he is cut the team saves $9m. The Jets are going to lower sanchez number, it counts ove $14m against the cap right now, and than guarentee his 2012 salary. Do you think he is worth $14m. If the Jets pushed $3m of is non-guaranteed salary into 2013 then he'd make $8.25m in 2012. If they guarantee the money over $8m guaraneteed, you think he can go on the open market and get that, be my guest. Second just like D'brick did, anyone can convert salary into signing bonus as long as their salary is at least the leugue minumium. It changes nothing for the player. Also the Jetsa are going to conver Roster Bonuses into signing bonuses and save about $4m that way. If you were to make the D'brick move with Holmes you'd save $5m. The bottom line is you can save as much as you want depends how far you want to go. I'm sure the Jets don't want to push Scotts salary into futrure years but it is possible. Forgot a $1.5 expention under the new CBA for 2012 so add that on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Its salary though. I think his new team would have to pay that and of course they would restructure. The Jets have left themselves an out. Thats why theyve allowed Scott to seek a trade. No team would pay that money for Scott, so he'd have to restructure I'm trying to get Jason to help he knows the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Actually Sanchez contract is not guaranteed. If he is cut the team saves $9m. The Jets are going to lower sanchez number, it counts ove $14m against the cap right now, and than guarentee his 2012 salary. Do you think he is worth $14m. If the Jets pushed $3m of is non-guaranteed salary into 2013 then he'd make $8.25m in 2012. If they guarantee the money over $8m guaraneteed, you think he can go on the open market and get that, be my guest. Second just like D'brick did, anyone can convert salary into signing bonus as long as their salary is at least the leugue minumium. It changes nothing for the player. Also the Jetsa are going to conver Roster Bonuses into signing bonuses and save about $4m that way. If you wee to make the D'brick move with Holems you'd save $5m. The bottom line is you can save as much as you want depends how far you want to go. I'm sure the Jets don't want to push Scotts salary into futrure years but it is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Savvy? When clip art fails, it's time to draw the big guns: Jack Sparrow references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Or you could selectively edit the offending post and again ignore the points made. I'll type more slowly so maybe you can comprehend my meaning. Reducing the cap by $29 million is not only NOT easy and a pipe dream, it is impossible. Finding another team who will want to trade for a slow, part time, 32 year old linebacker with a bad attitude and a lousy, bloated contract is quite unlikely. Good luck with that. Savvy? The Jets are $7.7m under the cap. Maybin tender goes on the cap so they are at $6.5 they have lowered the cap $7.2m already, started $517,000 under. They can convert 2012 roster bonus, Sanchez, Revis, Cromartie, and Wilson, to signing bonus save $5m, just like D’Brick changes nothing for them. They renegotiate Eric Smith save $1.5m, prorate $4m Holmes save $3m, Push $3m Sanchez base into 2013, he'll do it, save $3m there is a veterans exemption in the CBA saving $1.5m. That is $21.2m in savings adding in the $500K of space. You have created like $22m in space and you can still get money from DeVito, Hunter, Scott, and Pace. So you can get $29 million if you want it. Just to sign six former Jet FA is like $8m then $5m for the draft that's $13m before you sign any FA from another team, backup QB, O-lineman, WR, or safety. So the Jets are going to have to make many of these moves, not all in the article, but it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Just to sign six former Jet former Jet FA is like $8m is Pouha in this projection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 When clip art fails, it's time to draw the big guns: Jack Sparrow references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 The Jets are $7.7m under the cap. Maybin tender goes on the cap so they are at $6.5 they have lowered the cap $7.2m already, started $517,000 under. They can convert 2012 roster bonus, Sanchez, Revis, Cromartie, and Wilson, to signing bonus save $5m, just like D’Brick changes nothing for them. They renegotiate Eric Smith save $1.5m, prorate $4m Holmes save $3m, Push $3m Sanchez base into 2013, he'll do it, save $3m there is a veterans exemption in the CBA saving $1.5m. That is $21.2m in savings adding in the $500K of space. You have created like $22m in space and you can still get money from DeVito, Hunter, Scott, and Pace. So you can get $29 million if you want it. Just to sign six former Jet former Jet FA is like $8m then $5m for the draft that's $13m before you sing any FA from another team, backup QB, O-lineman, WR, or safety. So the Jets are going to have to make many of these moves, not all in the article, but it can be done. The whole point of the article is to show ways to save under the cap and damage it does when such moves are made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 No team would pay that money for Scott, so he'd have to restructure I'm trying to get Jason to help he knows the contract. Teams know that the Jets need cap relief, Therefore, they likely wont give up much for Scott. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1082793-new-york-jets-allow-bart-scott-to-seek-trade-what-it-means-for-both-sides Scott will have a hard time finding takers. He will be 32 at the start of next season and is due $4.2 million in base salary, according to RotoWorld. A team that trades for him will likely ask him to rework his deal, and according to Shalise Manza Young of The Boston Globe, that could present a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 is Pouha in this projection? Yes, Pouha, $3-4m Maybin = $1.3m Cole, MTV, Pool, Turner = $2.6-$3m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Teams know that the Jets need cap relief, Therefore, they likely wont give up much for Scott. http://bleacherrepor...-for-both-sides Scott will have a hard time finding takers. He will be 32 at the start of next season and is due $4.2 million in base salary, according to RotoWorld. A team that trades for him will likely ask him to rework his deal, and according to Shalise Manza Young of The Boston Globe, that could present a problem. If the jets do trade Scott they will take a bath, they’ll have to give up Scott and a pick but may be worth it for cap relief. There is no team that's going to pay him $4m and he's not just going to give it up, so I'm assuming the Jets have to pay but they will get cap relief . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 If the jets do trade Scott they will take a bath, they’ll have to give up Scott and a pick but may be worth it for cap relief. There is no team that's going to pay him $4m and he's not just going to give it up, so I'm assuming the Jets have to pay but they will get cap relief . Why? Scott alone is enough. And, the trading team would be turning Scotts 4 mil into signing bonus, Scott wouldnt give up anything and he still gets 2012 salary. Its a good deal for the trading team and the Jets, because cap space is more valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Why? Scott alone is enough. And, the trading team would be turning Scotts 4 mil into signing bonus, Scott wouldnt give up anything and he still gets 2012 salary. Its a good deal for the trading team and the Jets, because cap space is more valuable. No I don't see any team but the Jets converting his money into signing bonus because if they did when they cut him next year the money they pushed would become dead on their cap. Like I said I'm trying to find the particulars but my guess is if he somehow gets traded the Jets get cap relief but owe him money. Once I know for sure will throw it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets23 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Just wow. You think that somehow that Tanny, with only $7 million and change to spend below the cap so far, can just cut Scott who has a $4.5 million guarantee, sign Williams to a monster contract that he will surely require, trade away picks to move up in the draft to snag Blackmon, AND still have both picks and money to fill multiple holes at safety and OL. Quite the dream world you live in there, bud. First off I posed a question asking what the chances were of getting Williams and then produced a scenario if it was to happen. Second from what I've seen here it is possible to clear enough cap space to sign him (though i think anything that includes guaranteeing sanchez a contract in 2013 should be avoided at all costs). Then the Blackmon theory is completely predicated on him falling down to possibly #10 or below where it wouldn't cost them too much. So whereas it is unlikely this is possible assuming a bunch of pieces fall in our favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Um...doesn't Scott's deal have some provision where any money paid him by another team comes off our cap? I would assume the "trade" talk would be to find a team that would make Bart happy and pay a decent part of his salary. Kind of yeah. If your drafting on combine and maybe one game alone. Draft production, not work outs. Gholston had plenty of production at Ohio State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Um...doesn't Scott's deal have some provision where any money paid him by another team comes off our cap? I would assume the "trade" talk would be to find a team that would make Bart happy and pay a decent part of his salary. I was going to write this just now and figured I'd go through the last 4 pages I hadn't read yet to see if someone brought it up. There's the possibility that a trade could include the Jets paying some of that salary and a new team paying some. If some team was willing to pay him $2M the Jets could be on the hook for $2.5M instead of $4.5M. Easy to restructure so $2.5M is a roster bonus the day before he's traded, and the remaining guaranteed $2M passes on to his new team. If constructed that way, the Jets absolutely could recoup a low pick. In the end, I think his greatest trade value would be late in the summer if someone loses a starting LB and has absolutely no one else who can start. But all off-season the Jets will have to prepare as though Scott will count his full amt off the 2012 cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 So whats the plan here if we dump Scott? Go to more nickle, or pick someone else up? Cause no way we are running with Mauga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 So whats the plan here if we dump Scott? Go to more nickle, or pick someone else up? Cause no way we are running with Mauga. Maybe they've been talking with a FA or really like a draftee. Mauga is serviceable at least and could be better the Scott this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 So whats the plan here if we dump Scott? Go to more nickle, or pick someone else up? Cause no way we are running with Mauga. I wouldn't be so sure about that. The team clearly really likes Mauga, and with two seasons under his belt and a full offseason to truly implement him they might be ready to make that move and give him his shot. When you combine that with them seeming to like Bellore as well, and the amount of money they have already sunk into Harris, I wouldn't be overly surprised if they stuck with what they had and just compliment that with another low dollar option (low-level FA / late round pick). This team has a lot bigger concerns than #2 ILB right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Any chance the Jets try a cut and resign? I just dont see teams taking on that big of a contract for a 32 yr old LB who cant play all 3 downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Any chance the Jets try a cut and resign? I just dont see teams taking on that big of a contract for a 32 yr old LB who cant play all 3 downs. Why do that? They would still be responsible for the majority of the salary. That is the problem, otherwise they would simply cut him outright (why would they want him back)? His value is negligible, particularly for a part time player. The fact that he is vocally problematic, only adds to the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 The Jets are $7.7m under the cap. Maybin tender goes on the cap so they are at $6.5 they have lowered the cap $7.2m already, started $517,000 under. They can convert 2012 roster bonus, Sanchez, Revis, Cromartie, and Wilson, to signing bonus save $5m, just like D’Brick changes nothing for them. They renegotiate Eric Smith save $1.5m, prorate $4m Holmes save $3m, Push $3m Sanchez base into 2013, he'll do it, save $3m there is a veterans exemption in the CBA saving $1.5m. That is $21.2m in savings adding in the $500K of space. You have created like $22m in space and you can still get money from DeVito, Hunter, Scott, and Pace. So you can get $29 million if you want it. Just to sign six former Jet FA is like $8m then $5m for the draft that's $13m before you sign any FA from another team, backup QB, O-lineman, WR, or safety. So the Jets are going to have to make many of these moves, not all in the article, but it can be done. Good breakdown, but what they really will have done is push the whole mess another year down the road. They are in the mess with Scott this year because they thought they were in a win it all now situation last year, and wanted to free up money for Aso. Now it's pay back time. They might have to give up draft picks, not to gain a player, but to lose a player they still have to replace. Muga is not an upgrade over Scott. The last thing they want to do is to have more down the road commitment to Sanchez, Holmes, Pace and Cro. With all the holes they have have right now I don't think they are in a "Must win it All" mentality right now. IMO they will clear up enough cap space to be competitive this year, decide if Sanchez must be replaced, and reload for next year. Otherwise we will be having the same conversation next year with different players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I wouldn't be so sure about that. The team clearly really likes Mauga, and with two seasons under his belt and a full offseason to truly implement him they might be ready to make that move and give him his shot. When you combine that with them seeming to like Bellore as well, and the amount of money they have already sunk into Harris, I wouldn't be overly surprised if they stuck with what they had and just compliment that with another low dollar option (low-level FA / late round pick). This team has a lot bigger concerns than #2 ILB right now. Usually I am all for using in house talent.. but I don't know. The way things have gone for us, and the criticism of us not keeping high dollar vet players, kind of has me worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Why do that? They would still be responsible for the majority of the salary. That is the problem, otherwise they would simply cut him outright (why would they want him back)? His value is negligible, particularly for a part time player. The fact that he is vocally problematic, only adds to the problem. When has Bart been a problem in what he says? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 When has Bart been a problem in what he says? He is vocal about his play time, unhappy that he has become a situational backer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Unhappy Scott talks with Jets Monday, February 27, 2012 BY J.P. PELZMAN STAFF WRITER The Record Print | E-mail Unhappy linebacker Bart Scott recently had a meeting with Jets brass, and the team may be looking to trade the 31-year-old veteran, who is due a guaranteed base salary of $4.2 million for the 2012 season. Still, Scott’s agent Harold Lewis said Monday "the ultimate goal for Bart would be to stay a Jet." "It was a very productive meeting and I think we made it very clear Bart would like to stay a Jet," Lewis said. However, Lewis admitted Scott felt a "lot of frustration" over the Jets’ 8-8 season in 2011 in which Scott’s playing time was reduced. He often came out of the lineup on third downs and in hurry-up situations. A Jets spokesman declined to comment on the situation. Scott has three years left on a six-year, $48 million deal he signed in 2009. The Jets restructured Scott’s contract last summer and made him take a pay cut in 2011, with the provision that his 2012 salary would be guaranteed. That guaranteed salary may make it difficult for the Jets to find a trade partner for Scott and his contract. Lewis said he and Scott have not asked permission to seek a trade. Scott is considered a good influence in the Jets’ locker room, which came under fire last season for some fracturing. "Bart kept it together in there," Lewis said. "He wasn’t one of those guys having problems." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Scott is going nowhere, unless the Jets cut him outright and another team signs him on the cheap. And Scott will laugh all the way to the bank. These situations are the product of Tanny's smoke & mirrors approach to cap management by overspending on non-productive players and then creating cap space by restructuring contracts. This eventually comes back to bite us in the a$$. I think Tanny was moonlighting as the Greek Finance Manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Usually I am all for using in house talent.. but I don't know. The way things have gone for us, and the criticism of us not keeping high dollar vet players, kind of has me worried. Oh, I get what you're saying and I think those are the type of moves teams never particularly expect their fans to be happy with at the start. Let's not forget just under a year ago the kind of hissy fit Giant fans were throwing over their team letting Steve Smith go and replacing him with some loser UDFA by the name of Victor Cruz. Obviously they feel much different about it now. Of course none of that is to say it would work out as well for the Jets, but more the point being that nobody ever particularly likes those types of moves when they're first made. If the Jets have a way they think they can move Scott and save some money off the cap, while also feeling good about Mauga, they'd probably see themselves better served addressing other positions they consider to be of greater priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Can't Wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Why do that? They would still be responsible for the majority of the salary. That is the problem, otherwise they would simply cut him outright (why would they want him back)? His value is negligible, particularly for a part time player. The fact that he is vocally problematic, only adds to the problem. Oh yea, duh. Carry on. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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