I see Santonio hasn't changed a bit since Miami....

[T0mShane]

for all his BS

the team is far better with him, than without him

he's not easily replaceable.

.

On Madden, yes. But he's essentially this organization's Jeremy Shockey. Shockey was a good, dynamic TE for the Giants, but they were a better team with Kevin Boss. Being a piece of crap in the locker room is a factor in how valuable a football player is to your team. Add to that how grossly overrated Holmes is by Jets fans, (simply because our GM sucks so hard at drafting skill position players) and the end result is that Holmes is a walking mistake.

Edited April 20, 2012 by T0mShane

[bitonti]

There's a difference between wanting choir boys and not wanting to deal with a complete piece of crap who's personal problems spill out onto the field and ultimately have a negative affect on the team's performance. The guy is a locker room cancer who doesn't even bother to play when he doesn't feel like it.

I dont see it as personal problems spilling onto the field. I see it as professional problems (running around all game and not getting looks) spilling on to the field. NO there isn't a good reason why Santonio shut it down. but watch the tape again, he's open... alot. Mark wasn't looking at him, and eventually he stopped caring. I know we want football players to try 100% all the time, no matter what, but they aren't robots. IF you want Santonio involved you have to give him looks. It's like that with every #1 WR in the league. What do you guys think Calvin Johnson would do if his QB never threw him the ball? these guys are all divas and they will get disgruntled.

[bitonti]

.

Being a piece of crap in the locker room is a factor in how valuable a football player is to your team.

again holmes' problems were not off the field. they were ON the field. his QB was ignoring him and he eventually lost it. I'm fairly confident every other #1 WR in the league would do the same thing.

think about the mindset of an NFL WR, especially a star receiver. THese guys want the ball. they need the ball. Deny them that, eventually they will go rogue. There's nothing wrong with Santonio Holmes that throwing him the ball more won't fix. If the Jets want WR who basically blocking dummies, who won't care if they never get looks... they can start Patrick Turner and let's see how far that gets em.

Edited April 20, 2012 by bitonti

[T0mShane]

again holmes' problems were not off the field. they were ON the field. his QB was ignoring him and he eventually lost it. I'm fairly confident every other #1 WR in the league would do the same thing.

think about the mindset of an NFL WR, especially a star receiver. THese guys want the ball. they need the ball. Deny them that, eventually they will go rogue. There's nothing wrong with Santonio Holmes that throwing him the ball more won't fix. If the Jets want WR who basically blocking dummies, who won't care if they never get looks... they can start Patrick Turner and let's see how far that gets em.

Dude, he was forcibly ejected from Pittsburgh--a Super Bowl team with a burgeoning superstar QB. Holmes is all out of excuses.

[bitonti]

Dude, he was forcibly ejected from Pittsburgh--a Super Bowl team with a burgeoning superstar QB. Holmes is all out of excuses.

he was scapegoated cause they couldn't discipline rapeyburger... who actually is a terrible person and deserved to be sent away.

football isn't about being a good person it's about being a good performer. Santonio can perform, at a very high level. He just needs looks.

[T0mShane]

he was scapegoated cause they couldn't discipline rapeyburger... who actually is a terrible person and deserved to be sent away.

football isn't about being a good person it's about being a good performer. Santonio can perform, at a very high level. He just needs looks.

It's not like they picked Holmes' name out of a hat and decided to exile him in lieu of Roethlisberger. The dude still had a file of sh*thead maneuvers ample enough to put him at 1b on Puttsburgh's list of exilable scumbags. And the reality is, Holmes isn't going to get the ball and he's not going to get the looks and he knew that when he took $50 mil from the Jets, so he doesn't get a pass for locking himself into a bad situation. He's a greedy little semi-talented sociopath who we're all stuck with until the next, real GM comes in and cuts him.

[Bleedin Green]

Dude, he was forcibly ejected from Pittsburgh--a Super Bowl team with a burgeoning superstar QB. Holmes is all out of excuses.

Very well said.

[Bleedin Green]

they aren't paying him to give great interviews

ya know who gave great interviews? Chad Pennigton. Absolute garbage as an athlete but a heck of a nice guy. I'd like to have lunch with him, maybe some dumplings at a Cracker Barrell.

Who friggin cares?

Bah, Chad was a douche, just a different kind of douche.

[pointman]

Agreed. We would have to sweeten the deal by adding picks. LOL

Seriously. And then, rely on some moron like Shanahan taking it on. Still a long shot.. but worth trying.

[JiF]

Nothing but haters around here.

You go Tone, you go.

[JiF]

Dude, he was forcibly ejected from Pittsburgh--a Super Bowl team with a burgeoning superstar QB. Holmes is all out of excuses.

Zero SB's since Holmes bailed them out with the greatest catch in the history of the SB.

[pointman]

Nothing but haters around here.

You go Tone, you go.

Troll sighted.

[bitonti]

i just think it's short sighted to blame Santonio for reacting badly when he didn't get the ball

all of the famous WR act this way. Jerry Rice wanted the ball. Larry Fitzgerald wants the ball.

Whether a player is a "good guy" has nothing to do with him wanting to do his job at a high level.

Name a good WR i assure you that player wants the ball, and if he doesn't get it, he will disengage.

[Matt39]

i just think it's short sighted to blame Santonio for reacting badly when he didn't get the ball

all of the famous WR act this way. Jerry Rice wanted the ball. Larry Fitzgerald wants the ball.

Whether a player is a "good guy" has nothing to do with him wanting to do his job at a high level.

Name a good WR i assure you that player wants the ball, and if he doesn't get it, he will disengage.

Problem with Santonio is, his talent doesn't back up getting 15 targets a game. He's average physically. Megatron makes Stafford look really good because he has that type of ability. Ditto Fitz with whatever bum they have throwing it in Arizona. Santonio doesnt have that ability.

And yes, he made a nice catch in the Super Bowl. It's been done before though. Cotchery used to make those types of catches at least 3 times a year.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Matt39

[JiF]

Problem with Santonio is, his talent doesn't back up getting 15 targets a game. He's average physically. Megatron makes Stafford look really good because he has that type of ability. Ditto Fitz with whatever bum they have throwing it in Arizona. Santonio doesnt have that ability.

And yes, he made a nice catch in the Super Bowl. It's been done before though. Cotchery used to make those types of catches at least 3 times a year.

It has? Must have missed that Super Bowl.

[Matt39]

It has? Must have missed that Super Bowl.

I'm talking about the type of catch. The tiptoe sideline catch is done pretty much in every NFL game. But to put in in perspective, Manninghams was just as nice.

[bitonti]

I'm talking about the type of catch. The tiptoe sideline catch is done pretty much in every NFL game. But to put in in perspective, Manninghams was just as nice.

ok and Manningham got a $7+ mil per year contract as a reward

im not saying Santonio needs 15 looks a game. But he needs more than he was getting in the 2nd half of the season. by the end he was disgruntled and ya know what, alot of other top WR would have been as well. Santonio Holmes is not a "I'm just happy to be here" guy. The top WR are all divas. That's how it works.

Edited April 20, 2012 by bitonti

[Matt39]

ok and Manningham got a $7+ mil per year contract as a reward

im not saying Santonio needs 15 looks a game. But he needs more than he was getting in the 2nd half of the season. by the end he was disgruntled and ya know what, alot of other top WR would have been as well. Santonio Holmes is not a "I'm just happy to be here" guy. The top WR are all divas. That's how it works.

Im not denying that. Our offense was a disaster. Our line stunk, Sanchez was shell shocked, Burress should have never been signed.

We need to get Santonio the ball, but he's not the type of player where you can just force it to and good things will happen.

[Bleedin Green]

i just think it's short sighted to blame Santonio for reacting badly when he didn't get the ball

all of the famous WR act this way. Jerry Rice wanted the ball. Larry Fitzgerald wants the ball.

Whether a player is a "good guy" has nothing to do with him wanting to do his job at a high level.

Name a good WR i assure you that player wants the ball, and if he doesn't get it, he will disengage.

I think it's absolutely asinine to try to make up excuses for why it's ok for Holmes to act like a complete piece of crap. There have been plenty of good WRs (many better than Holmes) that have had to deal with crappy QB play and less passes than they wanted, yet still haven't acted the way Holmes did. For all of the other receivers who have been unhappy with their situation, why don't you tell me the last time one was told off by not just one, but two different offensive teammates during the game, on the field, in the huddle. Not to mention then being benched for a 4th stringer who immediately out-produces him. There's a difference between just being unhappy with your situation and the sh*t the Holmes pulled, they're nowhere close to the same thing.

Besides, what's to say the reason he was getting targeted less wasn't his crappy, lazy route running and poor hands late in the year? The last game that Sanchez was targeting him a lot, against the Eagles, he was absolutely horrendously awful, so what's his excuse there?

[vinnys025]

they aren't paying him to give great interviews

ya know who gave great interviews? Chad Pennigton. Absolute garbage as an athlete but a heck of a nice guy. I'd like to have lunch with him, maybe some dumplings at a Cracker Barrell.

Who friggin cares?

You didn't address the Owens point I made.

[bitonti]

I think it's absolutely asinine to try to make up excuses for why it's ok for Holmes to act like a complete piece of crap. There have been plenty of good WRs (many better than Holmes) that have had to deal with crappy QB play and less passes than they wanted, yet still haven't acted the way Holmes did. For all of the other receivers who have been unhappy with their situation, why don't you tell me the last time one was told off by not just one, but two different offensive teammates during the game, on the field, in the huddle. Not to mention then being benched for a 4th stringer who immediately out-produces him. There's a difference between just being unhappy with your situation and the sh*t the Holmes pulled, they're nowhere close to the same thing.

Besides, what's to say the reason he was getting targeted less wasn't his crappy, lazy route running and poor hands late in the year? The last game that Sanchez was targeting him a lot, against the Eagles, he was absolutely horrendously awful, so what's his excuse there?

first off I'm not making excuses for Holmes. I'm explaining why it happened. If you can show me examples of WR who were better than holmes and happy to not get the ball, please name names. As for the Eagles game he was done by that point. Again not excusing his behavior. there is no excuse for it.

and just FYI I went to 2 home games last year, sat in the upper ez and there were plenty of times Santonio was open. Sometimes wide open. saying Holmes didn't get separation, _that's_ making excuses (and it's wrong).

Mark was a 1 read QB and a shell of a player last year. let me also add the Jets OL wasn't that bad. They were still a top 10 line. Eli Manning had over 100 more pressures from scrimmage than Mark and they won the Super Bowl. His left guard was playing left tackle. How do you think Mark would do with Slauson in Dbrick's spot?

my point about Holmes isn't to excuse him... it's that any half way decent receiver is gonna shut it down after 10 weeks of running around, wide open and not getting looks. Mark was targeting Plex and Keller WAY too much and he was throwing into double coverage. by the end he was throwing picks to DT trying to check down to RB.

[bitonti]

You didn't address the Owens point I made.

i disagree that he's as good as any #2 in the league. He's not. He aged quick and his skills went off a cliff. If he was the same TO as he was 10 years ago, absolutely he'd have a job. the dude's been around since forever. He played with Jerry Rice for pete's sake.

[Bleedin Green]

first off I'm not making excuses for Holmes. I'm explaining why it happened. If you can show me examples of WR who were better than holmes and happy to not get the ball, please name names. As for the Eagles game he was done by that point. Again not excusing his behavior. there is no excuse for it.

and just FYI I went to 2 home games last year, sat in the upper ez and there were plenty of times Santonio was open. Sometimes wide open. saying Holmes didn't get separation, _that's_ making excuses (and it's wrong).

Mark was a 1 read QB and a shell of a player last year. let me also add the Jets OL wasn't that bad. They were still a top 10 line. Eli Manning had over 100 more pressures from scrimmage than Mark and they won the Super Bowl. His left guard was playing left tackle. How do you think Mark would do with Slauson in Dbrick's spot?

my point about Holmes isn't to excuse him... it's that any half way decent receiver is gonna shut it down after 10 weeks of running around, wide open and not getting looks. Mark was targeting Plex and Keller WAY too much and he was throwing into double coverage. by the end he was throwing picks to DT trying to check down to RB.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that Sanchez sucks a$$, and I don't expect Holmes to be happy about that (although he was well aware of that fact long before signing on the dotted line for that idiotic contract the Jets gave him). The difference is that I see that as absolutely no excuse whatsoever for his behavior. The bottom line is he is paid a whole lot of money to do a job that he stopped bothering to even try to do, while actually making the team worse with his presence. The Jets have garbage at QB, and that's not going to change any time in the next two years barring Sanchez suddenly getting his crap together, so that's all the more reason to get rid of a player who you know is going to be a problem under that circumstance, particularly when you're pissing away as much of your cap on him as the Jets are.

The fact is I don't give a crap if he's unhappy, that's his prerogative, but when it starts to affect the job he's paid insane amounts of money to do, that's a problem, and then when he starts causing problems in the locker room and affecting others, that's completely unacceptable.

[RSJ]

he was scapegoated cause they couldn't discipline rapeyburger... who actually is a terrible person and deserved to be sent away.

football isn't about being a good person it's about being a good performer. Santonio can perform, at a very high level. He just needs looks.

Thats where you are wrong. Watch the philly game again, or any other game for that matter. Dude is a horrible route runner with unreliable hands EXCEPT in the clutch. His unreliability is the reason he stopped getting looks. If you go back to 2010 and watch those close games again you will see that those games were close BECAUSE of key early drops by Holmes. Holmes is a nice little situational WR. The fact that you call him a #1 is an absolute joke. He cant do everything a number one like Calvin or Andre can. He doesnt have the god given size to. Signing Holmes to that contract is the single reason Tannenbaum and Rex should be shown the door if 2012 is a disaster. You give the Andre's that contract, not the Victor Cruz's.

[Matt39]

Thats where you are wrong. Watch the philly game again, or any other game for that matter. Dude is a horrible route runner with unreliable hands EXCEPT in the clutch. His unreliability is the reason he stopped getting looks. If you go back to 2010 and watch those close games again you will see that those games were close BECAUSE of key early drops by Holmes. Holmes is a nice little situational WR. The fact that you call him a #1 is an absolute joke. He cant do everything a number one like Calvin or Andre can. He doesnt have the god given size to. Signing Holmes to that contract is the single reason Tannenbaum and Rex should be shown the door if 2012 is a disaster. You give the Andre's that contract, not the Victor Cruz's.

The only reason I called Holmes a good route runner was because I had to have something positive to say.

But you're right. He's more of an improvise player...he was a perfect weapon for Ben in that sense. But his mechanics are pretty bad. He never catches the ball with his hands...and obviously he's physically limited.

[RSJ]

The only reason I called Holmes a good route runner was because I had to have something positive to say.

But you're right. He's more of an improvise player...he was a perfect weapon for Ben in that sense. But his mechanics are pretty bad. He never catches the ball with his hands...and obviously he's physically limited.

I agree, He is perfect for the playground style that Ben played or that Tebow plays. Ask him to run a precise route and catch with his hands and he is garbage. If he was picked by any other team except Pitt he would be considered a bust at this point. His numbers arent even that good. He is living off of one catch,

Edited April 20, 2012 by RSJ

[whodeawhodat]

i just think it's short sighted to blame Santonio for reacting badly when he didn't get the ball

all of the famous WR act this way. Jerry Rice wanted the ball. Larry Fitzgerald wants the ball.

Whether a player is a "good guy" has nothing to do with him wanting to do his job at a high level.

Name a good WR i assure you that player wants the ball, and if he doesn't get it, he will disengage.

true story, a wide receiver aint worth sh*t if he aint getting the ball. see "he is a good downfield blocker" quote...

[Bleedin Green]

Thats where you are wrong. Watch the philly game again, or any other game for that matter. Dude is a horrible route runner with unreliable hands EXCEPT in the clutch. His unreliability is the reason he stopped getting looks. If you go back to 2010 and watch those close games again you will see that those games were close BECAUSE of key early drops by Holmes. Holmes is a nice little situational WR. The fact that you call him a #1 is an absolute joke. He cant do everything a number one like Calvin or Andre can. He doesnt have the god given size to. Signing Holmes to that contract is the single reason Tannenbaum and Rex should be shown the door if 2012 is a disaster. You give the Andre's that contract, not the Victor Cruz's.

It really is funny, just about every game he gets credited for how clutch he is and supposedly winning the game by himself, the reason he needed to make those catches to begin with was because of a huge drop earlier in that game. For all the praise he gets for that Super Bowl catch, it wouldn't have been necessary if he didn't watch a ball go sailing through his hands one play earlier. Or to use an example from his Jets career, that catch and run late in OT against Cleveland was a near tie that should have ended in regulation had it not been for Holmes dropping the game-winner and the Jets having to settle for the tying FG.

[RSJ]

It really is funny, just about every game he gets credited for how clutch he is and supposedly winning the game by himself, the reason he needed to make those catches to begin with was because of a huge drop earlier in that game. For all the praise he gets for that Super Bowl catch, it wouldn't have been necessary if he didn't watch a ball go sailing through his hands one play earlier. Or to use an example from his Jets career, that catch and run late in OT against Cleveland was a near tie that should have ended in regulation had it not been for Holmes dropping the game-winner and the Jets having to settle for the tying FG.

It is hysterical. I said it last year and I will still say it again. In hindsight, Braylon got a crappy one year deal from the 49ers. It would not have been hard to beat that and let Holmes walk or franchise him and trade him. Even though Braylon hurt his knee, it still would have been the better move.

Edited April 20, 2012 by RSJ

[bitonti]

Even though Braylon hurt his knee, it still would have been the better move.

we'd be sitting here, wondering if Braylon (who got big money) would be coming back from a knee injury

say what you will about Holmes, at least he's healthy.

[RSJ]

we'd be sitting here, wondering if Braylon (who got big money) would be coming back from a knee injury

say what you will about Holmes, at least he's healthy.

Really? Braylon didnt get big money at all. Nothing NEAR what Holmes got. He got a one year deal worth 3.5 million. Holmes is getting 10 big ones a year for 5. Only the Jets would pay a speedy little, very easily replaceable WR like he is a legit number one pro bowler. What a joke.

Edited April 20, 2012 by RSJ

[SenorGato]

Really? Braylon didnt get big money at all. Nothing NEAR what Holmes got. He got a one year deal worth 3.5 million. Holmes is getting 10 big ones a year for 5. Only the Jets would pay a speedy little, very easily replaceable WR like he is a legit number one pro bowler. What a joke.

*WONDERS WHY*

They're all easily replaceable except for the ones who just that much better. That's why Vincent Jackson is in Tampa right now.

Edited April 20, 2012 by SenorGato

[RSJ]

*WONDERS WHY*

They're all easily replaceable except for the ones who just that much better. That's why Vincent Jackson is in Tampa right now.

I agree bro. There are about 3-5 legit WR's that are number one's in the league. Number one means you can run every route on the route tree effectively. Everyone else is situational and replaceable.

[Bleedin Green]

*WONDERS WHY*

They're all easily replaceable except for the ones who just that much better. That's why Vincent Jackson is in Tampa right now.

Agreed and Holmes doesn't come close to falling into "just that much better" category. Which is exactly why when one becomes as big of a problem as Holmes, there's little to no reason to put up with it other than cap implications once you've already made the stupid mistake.

[RSJ]

After the Sanchez pick, the Green pick, the Holmes trade and the Tomlinson signing its my opinion that this team would be better off if Rex just stayed the hell away from the offense. They should take Rex's keys away from the offenses meeting rooms.