Reasons I'm now pumped for the season

[dbatesman]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh, it's not like Holmes' Jets stats annihilate Edwards' Jets stats. I realize it's a common deal to paint Edwards as a suck pump in retrospect, but what has Holmes ever done here to elevate him above anything Edwards did?

Edwards was basically the same guy here that he was in Cleveland. Holmes had a couple really good seasons in Pittsburgh. It's reasonable to say that any perceived deficiencies in his production as a Jet can be attributed in large part to Sanchez.

[T0mShane]

Holmes got a big contract that limits the FO's maneuverability?

Batesman is going to come back with some FO stuff that I won't be able to process. It's only a matter of time.

[SenorGato]

I know its not a great loss.

I'm laughing at you invoking system as a basis for performance outcome, given the way you've defended Schotty saying that system doesn't matter.

Meh it's how he was used...systems tend to be fluid towards talent...which is how it should be.

[dbatesman]

As to the premise of the thread, this season will look almost exactly like last season, except instead of Holmes and Plaxico tearing the locker room apart, it'll be Holmes and Tebow tearing the locker room apart. Sanchez is still here. Holmes is still here. There is no RT. You're hoping for rookies and a gimpy Laron Landry to fix the safety positions. Buffalo is better. The Pats are better. The only thing going for this Jets squad is the hope (based on hope) that Sparano conceives of a way to hide Sanchez enough vis a vis some weird faux-wildcat offense that he won't lose games for you. You're all nuts if you think otherwise. Nuts.

This x10000000

Sorry guys.

[Bleedin Green]

Calvin Johnson career college stats.

Career Receiving: 178 Rec, 2927 Yds, 16.4 Avg, 28 TD

Demaryius Thomas career college stats

Career Receiving: 120 Rec, 2339 Yds, 19.5 Avg, 15 TD

Alshon Jeffery career college Stats (who we should have drafted)

Career Receiving: 183 Rec, 3042 Yds, 16.6 Avg, 23 TD

Stephen Hill career college stats

Career Receiving: 49 Rec, 1248 Yds, 25.5 Avg, 9 TD

When based on averages, Stephen Hill is off the damn chart. I see that. But when it comes to production..........exactly.

And just to throw in

Jordan White career college stats.

Career Receiving: 306 Rec, 4187 Yds, 13.7 Avg, 32 TD. >>>>>>>>>>>Thats production. I dont care how close he was to being undrafted.

So, Jordan White >>>>>>>>>>>> Calvin Johnson??

[Integrity28]

you have no idea what you're talking about... Miami fans were sicker of Sparano then Jets fans where of Schotty.. Your just making things up at this point

Is there a metric for this?

If not, then I'd say you are making this up... not me.

[T0mShane]

Edwards was basically the same guy here that he was in Cleveland. Holmes had a couple really good seasons in Pittsburgh. It's reasonable to say that any perceived deficiencies in his production as a Jet can be attributed in large part to Sanchez.

Ah. I agree that Sanchez holds Holmes down statistically, but how can you say he didn't do the same to Braylon? It's not like Braylon had better QBing in Cleveland outside of his monster 07 campaign.

[Integrity28]

Meh it's how he was used...systems tend to be fluid towards talent...which is how it should be.

What if the talent is use to run 5 yard routes, on 3rd and 7? Then is it the talents fault?

[Integrity28]

So, Jordan White >>>>>>>>>>>> Calvin Johnson??

In summary, yes, it would appear so. lol

[dbatesman]

Ah. I agree that Sanchez holds Holmes down statistically, but how can you say he didn't do the same to Braylon? It's not like Braylon had better QBing in Cleveland outside of his monster 07 campaign.

I guess it's possible, but his catch rate sucks and generally speaking he's just not an efficient player, and that includes 2007. His DVOA in 2007 was +3.3%. In 2010 it was +2.4%. The logical counterargument would be that he's a big-play guy so a cumulative counting stat could better measure his value, but Holmes beats him in DYAR too.

[JustInFudge]

Calvin Johnson career college stats.

Career Receiving: 178 Rec, 2927 Yds, 16.4 Avg, 28 TD

Demaryius Thomas career college stats

Career Receiving: 120 Rec, 2339 Yds, 19.5 Avg, 15 TD

Alshon Jeffery career college Stats (who we should have drafted)

Career Receiving: 183 Rec, 3042 Yds, 16.6 Avg, 23 TD

Stephen Hill career college stats

Career Receiving: 49 Rec, 1248 Yds, 25.5 Avg, 9 TD

When based on averages, Stephen Hill is off the damn chart. I see that. But when it comes to production..........exactly.

And just to throw in

Jordan White career college stats.

Career Receiving: 306 Rec, 4187 Yds, 13.7 Avg, 32 TD. >>>>>>>>>>>Thats production. I dont care how close he was to being undrafted.

I get it brother. I really do. But I think you missed my point. The GT gravy train is freakishly large and fast WR's who turnout to be good pro's, with (CJ) or without (DT) production.

Maybe the well ran dry and Hill's a bust. But I certainly see the logic.

[Villain The Foe]

So, Jordan White >>>>>>>>>>>> Calvin Johnson??

In summary, yes, it would appear so. lol

lol. Im saying that Jordan White had a very productive College career, along with Thomas and Johnson. Hill has off the richter scale averages, but he has very little production.

why is this being lost in translation? It surely shouldnt be.

[Bleedin Green]

I guess it's possible, but his catch rate sucks and generally speaking he's just not an efficient player, and that includes 2007. His DVOA in 2007 was +3.3%. In 2010 it was +2.4%. The logical counterargument would be that he's a big-play guy so a cumulative counting stat could better measure his value, but Holmes beats him in DYAR too.

I'll be honest, I was one of the biggest supporters of Edwards over Holmes last offseason (although I really wanted both back), but that didn't even come down to him necessarily being a better player. I said all along that I thought the biggest issue on that debate was simply that Edwards was a better fit, given a variety of reasons for this team, most notably the various issues with the Jets QB play. In the case of Edwards, you were talking about a bigger target for an inaccurate QB, and fairly good deep threat for a guy who, up until last year, had his most success with his deep throws. Those are the things that made Edwards stand out in his time here.

That's long since over and he's not coming back (certainly not after this draft), so there's no point in really worrying about it, but the point is that's just not the type of player Holmes is whatsoever. If the Jets actually had some accurate QB play, it might be a whole different story. Of course, all of that only gets further compounded when a player is as much of an enormous douchebag as Holmes.

[Villain The Foe]

I get it brother. I really do. But I think you missed my point. The GT gravy train is freakishly large and fast WR's who turnout to be good pro's, with (CJ) or without (DT) production.

Maybe the well ran dry and Hill's a bust. But I certainly see the logic.

No, I got it. I really see what you mean and I know why im doing this. I was really big on Jeffery. I see what you see about Hill, kids are not made like that everyday. I get it bro, All im presenting is that there was atleast production on Johnson/Thomas part. If there is another GT WR who's doing it big in the NFL right now who's numbers resembles Hill then maybe I should pipe down.

You know what this pick reminds me of? Jason Pierre Paul from the Giants. The Giants picked this guy 15th overall but there were plenty of question marks with him because he didnt have alot of production but had only 1 year where he showed enormous flash. The Giants took him and it worked out.

Here's the difference. The Giants werent necessarily depending on him because they already had two pass rushers on the team, however they wanted to make Umenyoria expendable. The Jets NEED this pick to work because they have no #2 WR to make expendable. Thats where I feel that the jets should have taken production (jeffery) over probability (hill).

But trust me Jif, I follow you.

[Matt39]

Edwards was basically the same guy here that he was in Cleveland. Holmes had a couple really good seasons in Pittsburgh. It's reasonable to say that any perceived deficiencies in his production as a Jet can be attributed in large part to Sanchez.

Edwards never played with a good QB either though

[CTM]

As to the premise of the thread, this season will look almost exactly like last season, except instead of Holmes and Plaxico tearing the locker room apart, it'll be Holmes and Tebow tearing the locker room apart. Sanchez is still here. Holmes is still here. There is no RT. You're hoping for rookies and a gimpy Laron Landry to fix the safety positions. Buffalo is better. The Pats are better. The only thing going for this Jets squad is the hope (based on hope) that Sparano conceives of a way to hide Sanchez enough vis a vis some weird faux-wildcat offense that he won't lose games for you. You're all nuts if you think otherwise. Nuts.

Disagree.. I think that Tebow motivates previously coddled Sanchez and he gives a more focused effort. I think that Hill will make 10--15 big plays, and that Tebow will provide a spark when Sanchesa is struggling.. I think the defense is better, provided that Revis doesn't hold out. I believe Miami is worse. The Bills are pretenders and the Pats have nobody in secondary + are 1 awkward fall from TB12 away from thier own 6 win season.. I like our shot

I also think that knuckleheads will credit Sparano for a modest improvement in offense, and then they will hate him in a few years when the offense never becomes anything better then avg

[lanightmare225]

I think Antonio Allen will take over eric smiths spot at some point or at least see a lot of playing time. Im excited about this kid he can play close to the line and be a ball hawker.

[jack48]

Don't we all know that Sanchez is going to go down with an injury and Tebow will wind up starting? Face it---Tebow is a Star Child.

[BornJetsFan1983]

1. Agreed. I think the football fans with a housewives understanding of football sees Sporano and deduces ground and pound, and nothing more. However, if you look at how Sporano used Fasano, Davone Bess and Brandon Marshall in Miami's passing game, no matter who the mediocre QB was, you will quickly see he will be putting a route tree in place here designed for catches to be made past the 1st down marker. When Sporano's teams played terrible pass defenses, they exploited them or ....

thank god

[jack48]

P.S. Sparano has to put in an offense that Tebow is capable of running with some effectiveness-not just a package of plays. He is the backup. He could be the starter Week Two.

[Integrity28]

Disagree.. I think that Tebow motivates previously coddled Sanchez and he gives a more focused effort. I think that Hill will make 10--15 big plays, and that Tebow will provide a spark when Sanchesa is struggling.. I think the defense is better, provided that Revis doesn't hold out. I believe Miami is worse. The Bills are pretenders and the Pats have nobody in secondary + are 1 awkward fall from TB12 away from thier own 6 win season.. I like our shot

I also think that knuckleheads will credit Sparano for a modest improvement in offense, and then they will hate him in a few years when the offense never becomes anything better then avg

I think most people will recognize that any improvement on offense will come as a result of new faces contributing on/off field AND better play from the old.

I think miserable people like you will then spend an exorbitant amount of time on this website trying to make it sound like the so-called "knuckleheads" are saying things they aren't really saying, so that you can give your ego a little kick by trying slinging whatever bs you can at them to make it appear as though you might have proven some sort of point... and then you will go run over puppies and convince yourself that everyone else is the problem, not you.

[CTM]

I think most people will recognize that any improvement on offense will come as a result of new faces contributing on/off field AND better play from the old.

I think miserable people like you will then spend an exorbitant amount of time on this website trying to make it sound like the so-called "knuckleheads" are saying things they aren't really saying, so that you can give your ego a little kick by trying slinging whatever bs you can at them to make it appear as though you might have proven some sort of point... and then you will go run over puppies and convince yourself that everyone else is the problem, not you.

lol, say the guy that just said sparano will create route trees that are actually designed to get a first down.. maybe the dumbest thing i' ve ever read

[RutgersJetFan]

Disagree.. I think that Tebow motivates previously coddled Sanchez and he gives a more focused effort. I think that Hill will make 10--15 big plays, and that Tebow will provide a spark when Sanchesa is struggling.. I think the defense is better, provided that Revis doesn't hold out. I believe Miami is worse. The Bills are pretenders and the Pats have nobody in secondary + are 1 awkward fall from TB12 away from thier own 6 win season.. I like our shot

Defense should be pretty beast this year probabilistically. My money's on it jumping back up next season due to several factors. Mostly health, a full offseason, the way guys like Cro and Wilk looked completely different during the last 8 weeks, and several indirect effects from the offense. Better than '10 and '11, but slightly under '09. Defense numbers are by far the most consistent thing in the league and ours have had a weird fluctuation because of the jump from '08 to '09 with Rex. Given the consistency it's shown the two years after still near the top we're due for an up year. As long as Sanchez and Pseudo-Rex on offense don't eff it up we're good for 10-11 wins, but I'm done sleeping on what Brady can do even when the rest of his roster is sh*t.

[Villain The Foe]

I get it brother. I really do. But I think you missed my point. The GT gravy train is freakishly large and fast WR's who turnout to be good pro's, with (CJ) or without (DT) production.

Maybe the well ran dry and Hill's a bust. But I certainly see the logic.

You know Jif, maybe you're on to something. I just left the Jets website where they have a new interview with Stephen Hill and I just found out that on his 9 career TD catches in college he AVERAGED almost 55 yards per TD scored his entire career. I've never heard anything like that before in my life! lol.

He's a fly route receiver. If Hill can learn to run routes, catch the ball with his hands on those routes and eliminate the drops this could be ugly dude.

That just blew my mind!

[Damaged89]

Disagree.. I think that Tebow motivates previously coddled Sanchez and he gives a more focused effort. I think that Hill will make 10--15 big plays, and that Tebow will provide a spark when Sanchesa is struggling.. I think the defense is better, provided that Revis doesn't hold out. I believe Miami is worse. The Bills are pretenders and the Pats have nobody in secondary + are 1 awkward fall from TB12 away from thier own 6 win season.. I like our shot

I also think that knuckleheads will credit Sparano for a modest improvement in offense, and then they will hate him in a few years when the offense never becomes anything better then avg

I think there's a shot that you're right but there's a lot of "ifs". If Hill can be the deep threat, if Revis doesn't hold out, if Sanchez achieves a modicum of competency.. I dunno. A lot depends on the running game getting better IMO. If that happens and we can hide Sanchez/play to his strengths, the offense will be ok.

[RutgersJetFan]

He's a fly route receiver. If Hill can learn to run routes, catch the ball with his hands on those routes and eliminate the drops this could be ugly dude.

Yes. GOOD. I agree with this. Hill should learn to catch the ball with his hands and run routes.

[Integrity28]

lol, say the guy that just said sparano will create route trees that are actually designed to get a first down.. maybe the dumbest thing i' ve ever read

Sure it is.

[T0mShane]

I guess it's possible, but his catch rate sucks and generally speaking he's just not an efficient player, and that includes 2007. His DVOA in 2007 was +3.3%. In 2010 it was +2.4%. The logical counterargument would be that he's a big-play guy so a cumulative counting stat could better measure his value, but Holmes beats him in DYAR too.

sh*t.

[T0mShane]

Disagree.. I think that Tebow motivates previously coddled Sanchez and he gives a more focused effort. I think that Hill will make 10--15 big plays, and that Tebow will provide a spark when Sanchesa is struggling.. I think the defense is better, provided that Revis doesn't hold out. I believe Miami is worse. The Bills are pretenders and the Pats have nobody in secondary + are 1 awkward fall from TB12 away from thier own 6 win season.. I like our shot

I also think that knuckleheads will credit Sparano for a modest improvement in offense, and then they will hate him in a few years when the offense never becomes anything better then avg

I think you can implant the entire motivational ouvre of Tony Robbins into Sanchez's brain tomorrow and it still wouldn't make him a better QB. His issues are that he's immature and a slow processor of information. Only years and years of growth and experience fix that--not an offseason where he'll get to answer 9,000,000,000 questions about Tim Tebow. There's no chance Tebow's presence here does a single thing to cure Sulkatron of his preemie-baby malingering.

[T0mShane]

Yes. GOOD. I agree with this. Hill should learn to catch the ball with his hands and run routes.

F'in lol.

This thread is gold.

[LionelRichie]

I get it brother. I really do. But I think you missed my point. The GT gravy train is freakishly large and fast WR's who turnout to be good pro's, with (CJ) or without (DT) production.

Maybe the well ran dry and Hill's a bust. But I certainly see the logic.

Hill should be a good player for the Jets at some point, I just wouldn't expect much from him this year.

Rookie WR's rarely contribute in year 1. For whatever reason the transition seems to be the toughest at that position. With the exception of guys like johnson & johnson rookie's seem to take some time to develop.

[T0mShane]

Hill should be a good player for the Jets at some point, I just wouldn't expect much from him this year.

Rookie WR's rarely contribute in year 1. For whatever reason the transition seems to be the toughest at that position. With the exception of guys like johnson & johnson rookie's seem to take some time to develop.

+1

It's also going to be tough for him to gain any confidence while getting his a$$ kicked in practice by Revis and Cro. It'll be like when the Bulls would bring in young players and Jordan would brutalize them in practice for fun.

[Villain The Foe]

Yes. GOOD. I agree with this. Hill should learn to catch the ball with his hands and run routes.

lol. I guess WR's should already know how to do this before going pro, but im trying to establish some positive feelings here. I REALLY wanted Jeffery but it didnt happen. Its a long shot but if we hit on this Hill is going to be awesome.

He's very raw though. What the hell was Georgia Tech running out there? lol. (Option, I know...just sayin').

[SoFlaJets]

Right now as of the 30th of April I have no frigging idea if this is a Super Bowl team or a 4-12 team-I have never been so unsure about what a Jets season was going to look like as I am going into 2012...

[Villain The Foe]

Right now as of the 30th of April I have no frigging idea if this is a Super Bowl team or a 4-12 team-I have never been so unsure about what a Jets season was going to look like as I am going into 2012...

Its an 8-8 team, but has alot of potential to the upside.