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someone got into moms wine coolers.

we had to get him in early..... to learn these advanced root trees (designed to get first downs)

Our kid in Uniform

the read was clearly mcnight... first down was there if sanchez makes the correct play. Whie i agree atlast 1 reciever should've run a clearing route of some kind, you can't completely knock schotty when there was an easy first down there for the taking

As you alluded to, that's one of those instances where Jets fans need to learn to accept the fact that more than one person can suck at their job at the same time. It was a crappy read by Sanchez for sure, but it was also a completely moronic play call to start with. The only difference is that one of those guys sucked at their job for a lot longer while also having a lot less invested in him, so that's why he was the one who got his a$$ booted to the curb.

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As you alluded to, that's one of those instances where Jets fans need to learn to accept the fact that more than one person can suck at their job at the same time. It was a crappy read by Sanchez for sure, but it was also a completely moronic play call to start with. The only difference is that one of those guys sucked at their job for a lot longer while also having a lot less invested in him, so that's why he was the one who got his a$$ booted to the curb.

Well that and one guy isn't relying on someone else to make him look good like an OC has to do.

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the read was clearly mcnight... first down was there if sanchez makes the correct play. Whie i agree atlast 1 reciever should've run a clearing route of some kind, you can't completely knock schotty when there was an easy first down there for the taking

Exactly. I'm not trying to defend schotty too much here, but I've seen this same route combination run by the Colts, Pats and Packers numerous times; the only difference is that Manning, Brady and Rodgers make the correct read and get it to the receiver perfectly in stride so as to get the first down the vast majority of the time. Let's not all pretend that we're the only team to have receivers break off their routes prior to a first down, we just happen to have a QB and receiving corp that were fairly inept at it.

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the read was clearly mcnight... first down was there if sanchez makes the correct play. Whie i agree atlast 1 reciever should've run a clearing route of some kind, you can't completely knock schotty when there was an easy first down there for the taking

Read ?? No.... the read is before the play you have no idea of the progression or how the play was designed. You cant make the statement McKnight was the read. Once again McKnight was clearly 3 yards before the marker with a defensive player closing, McKnight goes down if someone breathes on him, so its doubtful he converts in that situation When Sanchez turned to that side of the field the RT and DE were right in his field of vision and IN NO WAY was he going to try and float a ball over those guys heads which would have led to an INT Pick Six. It was a poorly designed play from the start and half the players were not even looking at the QB (Dustin Keller) . Sanchez only option was to either throw the ball to the player he did thorw it too or Scramble to extend the play IMO he should have scrambled but once again if he was expecting his players to be at the marker (like all good OC design plays) its not his fault everyplayer on the field failed to get to that point. This has been a problem here since sh*tty became a Jets coach right up there with the 3 yard out to gain 8 yards for the first. Sorry but the guy is an Idiot

All I have to say is thank god we dont have to deal with this bullsh*t anymore since sh*tty is the hell out of here,

Edited by Smashmouth
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Read ?? No.... the read is before the play you have no idea of the progression or how the play was designed. You cant make the statement McKnight was the read. Once again McKnight was clearly 3 yards before the marker with a defensive player closing, McKnight goes down if someone breathes on him, so its doubtful he converts in that situation When Sanchez turned to that side of the field the RT and DE were right in his field of vision and IN NO WAY was he going to try and float a ball over those guys heads which would have led to an INT Pick Six. It was a poorly designed play from the start and half the players were not even looking at the QB (Dustin Keller) . Sanchez only option was to either throw the ball to the player he did thorw it too or Scramble to extend the play IMO he should have scrambled but once again if he was expecting his players to be at the marker (like all good OC design plays) its not his fault everyplayer on the field failed to get to that point. This has been a problem here since sh*tty became a Jets coach right up there with the 3 yard out to gain 8 yards for the first. Sorry but the guy is an Idiot

All I have to say is thank god we dont have to deal with this bullsh*t anymore since sh*tty is the hell out of here,

you are clueless

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Well that and one guy isn't relying on someone else to make him look good like an OC has to do.

What the hell are you talking about? It's football, absolutely everybody involved is relying on others to help make them look good. Just hate to break it to you, that doesn't excuse any of them from numerous instances where they quite clearly suck at their jobs completely independent of anyone else.

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Exactly. I'm not trying to defend schotty too much here, but I've seen this same route combination run by the Colts, Pats and Packers numerous times; the only difference is that Manning, Brady and Rodgers make the correct read and get it to the receiver perfectly in stride so as to get the first down the vast majority of the time. Let's not all pretend that we're the only team to have receivers break off their routes prior to a first down, we just happen to have a QB and receiving corp that were fairly inept at it.

Sorry but you dont hit players in stride on curl routes. Throwing five guys out in basicly the same pattern all stopping a few yards before the first down in man coverage is stupid. Forcing the QB to try and make a play with his entire option being spread across the entire field is bad news. And trust me the Colts and Pats and Packers dont call this play they usually bunch 3 receivers to one side and cross up the defense totally differnt than the crap we see here

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you are clueless

Sorry but your clueless No way no how you run a play with 5 receivers all 2-3 yards short of the marker. Its dumb and I dont give a crap what you think this is basic football . You run patterns past the marker or at the marker and when there are 5 yards to go there is no excuse to call a play like this

Edited by Smashmouth
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Thats great chan you explain to the football world how not running to the first down marker is a good thing . I'll wait

What is there to explain smash, the bottom corner is playing off and darts back at snap, the read is McNight for a fairly easy first down. I've already said I would've had someone run a clearing route, I really don't understand what is so complicated. What I and anyone who isn't bonkers can plainly see is an easy first down if the QB makes a fairly simple read. He threw it to the worst possible choice. Your guy blew it.. The thread dbatesman linked has more explanation (including Holmes and Plax running lazy routes, you'll like that)

I mean seriously Smash, you really think Schotty doesn't run the same types of plays as everyone else. It's absurd. You must think you're smarter then Jeff Fischer (who scooped him up to be OC). You must also realize that the vast majority of people, including his own teammates know that Sanchez is the problem. But here's smash, arrogant as hell, claiming that only he and a band of looney's know better then the entire football establishment.

Edited by CTM
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What is there to explain smash, the bottom corner is playing off and darts back at snap, the read is McNight for a fairly easy first down. I've already said I would've had someone run a clearing route, I really don't understand what is so complicated. What I and anyone who isn't bonkers can plainly see is an easy first down if the QB makes a fairly simple read. He threw it to the worst possible choice. Your guy blew it.. The thread dbatesman linked has more explanation (including Holmes and Plax running lazy routes, you'll like that)

I mean seriously Smash, you really think Schotty doesn't run the same types of plays as everyone else. It's absurd. You must think you're smarter then Jeff Fischer (who scooped him up to be OC). You must also realize that the vast majority of people, including his own teammates know that Sanchez is the problem. But here's smash, arrogant as hell, claiming that only he and a band of looney's know better then the entire football establishment.

Schott sucks and a rehire isn't indicative of anything, but hitches are a staple in pretty much any offense and Walsh used to run that play all the time.

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It's like if you combined him and Smash, you'd get an uber-storyteller with the capability of structuring narratives only rivaled by R.L Stine.

Did you just compare me to Smash?

See now...just go **** yourself...that's just looking to be hurtful. Stick to pop culture references and trying to be Aten.

Edited by SenorGato
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Did you just compare me to Smash?

See now...just go **** yourself.

Handselectedness vs It'severyoneelse'sfault. Smith/Vlad/Sanchez are secretly good vs Holmes/The Line are secretly bad, Different verbiage but at the end of the day it's still the same wet crap sitting on the tip of the camel's nose.

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Handselectedness vs It'severyoneelse'sfault. Smith/Vlad/Sanchez are secretly good vs Holmes/The Line are secretly bad, Different verbiage but at the end of the day it's still the same wet crap sitting on the tip of the camel's nose.

Hand selectedness >>>>>>>> ****in route design/gameplan/playcall.

Never said anything about secretly good either, but it's your game in your head so enjoy it. Smith is what he is...a third safety who's similarly JAGGY like every teams second safety.

Vlad/Sanchez are just plain optimism moving forward...I knows I knows...it means I hate TEHNUMBERZEVIDENCE because my meatball brain thinks they're...ack just go **** yahself. Like I didn't spend all season sh*tting on Sanchez.

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What the hell are you talking about? It's football, absolutely everybody involved is relying on others to help make them look good. Just hate to break it to you, that doesn't excuse any of them from numerous instances where they quite clearly suck at their jobs completely independent of anyone else.

Yep yep yep...how dare he not get more out Pennington/Clemens/Sanchez...Gems like that have obviously been repressed.

Imgoing to miss these Schotty things...Not really, but it still fascinates me that it's so easy to eliminate context from situations.

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Schott sucks and a rehire isn't indicative of anything, but hitches are a staple in pretty much any offense and Walsh used to run that play all the time.

Pretty sure the rehire is indicative of something, namely that a guy that's been around football his whole life and had a mildly successful HC stint, scouted schotty and thought a little more of him then message board experts.. Oh i know though, Kellen Clemens threw more INT's under Schotty then he did in the defenseless Pac -12. Also Favre threw a bunch of INT's, cause that's never happenned before. Even the noodle arm had a higher INT % in 2003 then and 2005 then he ever did under Schotty. The more INT's happen under schotty theory has little merit, or Jeff Fischer and his multi million dollar organization didn't have access to these damning stats that are readily available everywhere

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Yeah, no. Degrees are non-existent when it comes to framing. It either qualifies or it doesn't.

I'm going to go ahead and yeah no that one. See its actually believable that Rex Ryan has a say in who his pass rusher/first round D pick would be, though sure its probably a "he seems nice with the size and the speed and the numbers" kind of thing (hence me dropping that once). Route design/gameplan/playcall just evolved into something truly special. Fckin just this week someone made the claim that Sporano will be introducing the first down route here...also something dropped once but still...common thought.

Alright still GFY.

Edited by SenorGato
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Pretty sure the rehire is indicative of something, namely that a guy that's been around football his whole life and had a mildly successful HC stint, scouted schotty and thought a little more of him then message board experts..

Not really. It's fallacy at it's best. If he wasn't good, he wouldn't be rehired. It completely ignores so many factors, namely that coaches who do nothing but produce bad results get rehired all the time. Then they produce bad results, get fired, and get rehired again. Rinse, repeat. Getting rehired is proof that experience weighs heavily in personnel decisions during the hiring process. It certainly isn't proof supporting a hypothesis that past performance may have been misinterpreted.

Edited by RutgersJetFan
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I'm going to go ahead and yeah no that one. See its actually believable that Rex Ryan has a say in who his pass rusher/first round D pick would be, though sure its probably a "he seems nice with the size and the speed and the numbers" kind of thing (hence me dropping that once). Route design/gameplan/playcall just evolved into something truly special. Fckin just this week someone made the claim that Sporano will be introducing the first down route here...also something dropped once but still...common thought.

Alright still GFY.

It's believable that EY loves the cock too. Yet I still made that up right on the spot.

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Pretty sure the rehire is indicative of something, namely that a guy that's been around football his whole life and had a mildly successful HC stint, scouted schotty and thought a little more of him then message board experts.. Oh i know though, Kellen Clemens threw more INT's under Schotty then he did in the defenseless Pac -12. Also Favre threw a bunch of INT's, cause that's never happenned before. Even the noodle arm had a higher INT % in 2003 then and 2005 then he ever did under Schotty. The more INT's happen under schotty theory has little merit, or Jeff Fischer and his multi million dollar organization didn't have access to these damning stats that are readily available everywhere

Yeah but he also wasted skill position champs like Braylon Edwards and Jerricho Cotchery (who was a trooper here for the most part).

Don't forget that Pennington and Favre went to new offenses (that's all that changed) and got better...CLEARLY something is trending.

Not saying that Schotty is the bees knees but pretty much every coordinator gets shat on at one point or another...usually one point and another until they run into the QB who doesn't suck, which are rare. Ever notice how little we talk about the great QBs OCs unless the HC is an "offensive genius" like Sean Peyton?

Edited by SenorGato
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It's believable that EY loves the cock too. Yet I still made that up right on the spot.

Im totally willing to say I made up that hand selected thing. Don't you think my time wasting a$$ would have went to bat for that the other times you've referenced it?

Smash....SMASH...

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Not really. It's fallacy at it's best. If he wasn't good, he wouldn't be rehired. It completely ignores so many factors, namely that coaches who do nothing but produce bad results get rehired all the time. Then they produce bad results, get fired, and get rehired again. Rinse, repeat. Getting rehired is proof of that experience weighs heavily in personnel decisions during the hiring process. It certainly isn't proof supporting a hypothesis that past performance may have been misinterpreted.

Coaches that are proven failures eventually stop getting jobs or take lesser jobs, see Edwards, Herm.. The worst defense in football 2 years ago was probably the Broncos, their DC ws fired, spent a year out of football and is now a LB coach in baltimore. Schotty doesn't have that kind of track record, yet people like Smash are insinuating that he was so incompetant that success was impossible with him.

WHat I'm saying is that the book isn't written on Schotty yet, there's been no definitive conclusion. The most compelling evidence is that he ran slightly below avg offenses, but he also did so with pretty piss poor situations at QB. My assertion is that the output is about what you'd exepct given then talent he was given. Therefore, he's probably done an average job so far.

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Im totally willing to say I made up that hand selected thing. Don't you think my time wasting a$$ would have went to bat for that the other times you've referenced it?

Smash....SMASH...

Meh, you made up the Eric Smith and Vlad crap too.

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Meh, you made up the Eric Smith and Vlad crap too.

Shut up already!

Actually thought Josh Bush's "I'm sure Eric Smith has tools as well" like was pretty funny/telling.

Vlad I remain as optimistic about as reason might allow me to, and there is reason he might become some kind of useful. If he doesn't...eh, oh well.

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Pretty sure the rehire is indicative of something, namely that a guy that's been around football his whole life and had a mildly successful HC stint, scouted schotty and thought a little more of him then message board experts.. Oh i know though, Kellen Clemens threw more INT's under Schotty then he did in the defenseless Pac -12. Also Favre threw a bunch of INT's, cause that's never happenned before. Even the noodle arm had a higher INT % in 2003 then and 2005 then he ever did under Schotty. The more INT's happen under schotty theory has little merit, or Jeff Fischer and his multi million dollar organization didn't have access to these damning stats that are readily available everywhere

Mangini got a rehire does that mean he's an amazing coach?

What is there to explain smash, the bottom corner is playing off and darts back at snap, the read is McNight for a fairly easy first down. I've already said I would've had someone run a clearing route, I really don't understand what is so complicated. What I and anyone who isn't bonkers can plainly see is an easy first down if the QB makes a fairly simple read. He threw it to the worst possible choice. Your guy blew it.. The thread dbatesman linked has more explanation (including Holmes and Plax running lazy routes, you'll like that)

I mean seriously Smash, you really think Schotty doesn't run the same types of plays as everyone else. It's absurd. You must think you're smarter then Jeff Fischer (who scooped him up to be OC). You must also realize that the vast majority of people, including his own teammates know that Sanchez is the problem. But here's smash, arrogant as hell, claiming that only he and a band of looney's know better then the entire football establishment.

Schotty is a conservative play caller. Watch the 2011 Saints, Lions, Panthers, Eagles, Giants, Packers etc. Then watch the 2011 jet offense. Maybe 2 deep passes attempted a game by the Jets if that, and by deep I mean 20 + yard passes. All those other offenses listed are throwing it 20+ yards every 4 plays. Go ahead and say all those teams have good QBs but part of the OC's job is QB development and running an offense like you have Pennington behind center when you really don't is just doing a bad job. Maybe Fisher wants to have a San Fran/2010 Jet esque offense where they pound the ball and rely on their defense to win games you never know. A rehire IMO is indicative of nothing.

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Mangini got a rehire does that mean he's an amazing coach?

You mean the guy that you chuckleheads were calling a genuis in 2006?

Schotty is a conservative play caller. Watch the 2011 Saints, Lions, Panthers, Eagles, Giants, Packers etc. Then watch the 2011 jet offense. Maybe 2 deep passes attempted a game by the Jets if that, and by deep I mean 20 + yard passes. All those other offenses listed are throwing it 20+ yards every 4 plays. Go ahead and say all those teams have good QBs but part of the OC's job is QB development and running an offense like you have Pennington behind center when you really don't is just doing a bad job. Maybe Fisher wants to have a San Fran/2010 Jet esque offense where they pound the ball and rely on their defense to win games you never know. A rehire IMO is indicative of nothing.

Rex is the one that made Schotty be more conservative, he's the ground and pound guy..

Plus, Saints, lions, Eagles, Giants, Packers all have something we don't. A QB!!!

Edited by CTM
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Coaches that are proven failures eventually stop getting jobs or take lesser jobs, see Edwards, Herm..

Turner, Norv.

The worst defense in football 2 years ago was probably the Broncos, their DC ws fired, spent a year out of football and is now a LB coach in baltimore. Schotty doesn't have that kind of track record, yet people like Smash are insinuating that he was so incompetant that success was impossible with him.

Success correlates to turnovers. There's actually a degre of merit to that even though I'm 100% positive that's not what Smash was saying whenever he stated that. Watching Harbaugh cut Smith down from an abhorrent amount to 10 this season says coaching has its role. They don't design plays to create turnovers obviously, but you can't deny that some game plans are designed to protect the football and some aren't. The former is clearly what this team needed and that's clearly not the game Schott looks to run.

My assertion is that the output is about what you'd exepct given then talent he was given. Therefore, he's probably done an average job so far.

The main problem with this is that there's no case to even make the argument with. It's really not an insane notion to evaluate a coach or player based solely on results and results alone. At the end of the day when a coach is handed that much variety over this large of a tenure and the results are that consistent, you're better off erring on the side of inferences from that.

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You mean the guy that you chuckleheads were calling a genuis in 2006?

Rex is the one that made Schotty be more conservative, he's the ground and pound guy..

Plus, Saints, lions, Eagles, Giants, Packers all have something we don't. A QB!!!

Maybe you didn't read my post, but like I said earlier part of being an OC is developing a QB and running an offense around his strengths. He was the ground and pound guy the first two years under Rex when we had success, last year he threw the ball a lot but never tried to throw any passes relatively deep. He wanted to complete 2-3 passes to get the first down every time the offense took the field. If your argument is still they had QBs just look at offenses who didnt have great QBs. No team was as conservative throwing the football last season as the Schottenheimer led 2011 Jet offense was.

Edited by RyanBe_Tweetin
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Don't forget that Pennington and Favre went to new offenses (that's all that changed) and got better...CLEARLY something is trending.

Yes, there were a variety of changes (including a soft schedule), but the fact that Pennington left Scottenheimer to go to Sparano's fish only to have the best season of his career is certainly encouraging for Sanchez this year.

Schottenheimer's offense reminds me of Joe Walton's without Ken O'Brien running things. Overly complicated, slow developing, ridiculous presnap motion. I'm sure it would've worked better with a better QB at the helm, but that doesn't absolve Schotty in any way. The multiple reads required by both the QB and the receivers in the passing game -I'm sure- led to a lot of the poor reads people blame on Sanchez. The complexity leads to too much thinking, and that in turn slows down reaction times.

I'm not absolving Sanchez, either, but the Jets owe it to themselves to at least see how he performs under another coordinator.

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