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Jets Building towards a 4-3 Defense???


Villain The Foe

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Like I told you more than once, my post was not only directed at you. Just like mafia, you think everything revolves around you and it does not. Im sorry I quoted you making you think thats all I was responding too. Next I time I quote you, Ill respond with one sentence so I dont get you all confused and sh*t you monkey loving bastard :) ...And yes most of this post was me trying to mess with you and be funny so dont get too mad at me magilla

I'm not mad. I just had no idea wtf you were talking about... And don't put it on me that I expected that when you quoted me you'd actually be responding to me, not the other 20 people you are arguing with instead. Dopey.

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He's a versatile player. He was BAP. And no, you cant find 6-6 298lb players with his athleticism anywhere in the draft. Big boys who can move go early. Thats the draft. Look at Poe, nobody was taking about him till his combine and ended up going before Coples who is 100x the Football player. He fits the scheme. He's another player Rex can move around in multiple fronts.

Whoa whoa whoa JiF...Poe was known long long long before the combine. Maybe you mean the 2010 combine?

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No they moved him outside. You probably read the article on him about pad level. It was a good read. The author said they moved him to DT. Then he enclosed several pictures to illustrate his point, and in every one he was at 4-3 DE.

I think the Author just misspoke.

He was moved out side and struggled. Soon as Rex drafted him and pronounced him starter Ryan said he was going to play inside. He said there were two type of pass rushers. "Ones that make the QB step up, and ones that make the QB's step back. Coples is going to make the QB step back"

Fortunately, the Jets have both types in Maybin, and Coples. As I said, in passing situations, expect to see Coples at DT, and Maybin hand in the dirt off his right shoulder. Should be fun

j

Thanks for the correction. And the last part of your statement is going to be wonderful to see. Damn I cant wait for the season to start.

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Thank you for clearing this up for these guys to read. I think the 16th pick was too early to pick Coples He very well might create some opportunities for LB's but we could have got that player in the later rounds if we traded out of the spot. Some people here actully think Coples will be lined up on the outside as an OLB at well as DL yet another spot hes got no exp doing.. What this all comes down too is we drafted a DE for the 3-4 who will be trying to create things for our aging OLB's and Aaron Maybin who is a one dimentional player that did nothing for the last 4 games of the season last year. ONE DIMENTIONAL PLAYERS MAKE YOU PREDICTABLE AND THATS EXACTLY WHY MAYBEN WAS SHUT DOWN AT THE END OF LAST SEASON Expect more of the same this year.

Once again lets see how it all works out.

I don't think they could have gotten that player in later rounds. You mentioned Maybin's lack of production late in the season. Now think about what Rex said here, and how many times Maybin just shot past the QB a yard to deep. What would have happened if they had an inside guy that made the QB step back two yards?

Bam! a sack for Maybin.

I suspect late in next season we are going to have a lot of threads with posters, who are good fans, but don't realize what their seeing out there squaking about Couples only having 6-8 sacks, and raving about Maybin going to Hawaii with 14-16 sacks.

DT's who get in the QB's face on a regular basis improve the entire front 7. Another benefit is Coples length. Tipped balls, and hurried throws, are what send DB's to the Pro Bowl with big pic numbers.

As you said lets see how it all works out. I personally think they got great value at 16

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Whoa whoa whoa JiF...Poe was known long long long before the combine. Maybe you mean the 2010 combine?

I think what JiF means is that to people who may not follow College ball like that. To be honest, I didnt know who Poe was until he put up crazy numbers at the Combine.

This. Poe was known if you follow college Football. He was not a top 10 pick until combine. Big guys that can move go early. Thats the draft. Bottom line.

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I don't think they could have gotten that player in later rounds. You mentioned Maybin's lack of production late in the season. Now think about what Rex said here, and how many times Maybin just shot past the QB a yard to deep. What would have happened if they had an inside guy that made the QB step back two yards?

Bam! a sack for Maybin.

I suspect late in next season we are going to have a lot of threads with posters, who are good fans, but don't realize what their seeing out there squaking about Couples only having 6-8 sacks, and raving about Maybin going to Hawaii with 14-16 sacks.

DT's who get in the QB's face on a regular basis improve the entire front 7. Another benefit is Coples length. Tipped balls, and hurried throws, are what send DB's to the Pro Bowl with big pic numbers.

As you said lets see how it all works out. I personally think they got great value at 16

Good point.

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Jenny Vrentas@JennyVrentas

Caught up with David Harris and Darrelle Revis at Harris' golf tournament to benefit Give the Kids Hope Foundation.

Harris + Revis have seen more actively involved Rex Ryan. Revis said @ end of last yr Rex "did fade off a little bit" in daily coaching

Revis: "Maybe he thought he put more trust in the coaching staff, and seeing that it kind of hurt us last year, maybe, a little bit."

Revis said Rex thought locker-room problems were a "done deal" and realized at the end of the season they weren't.

Revis met with Rex after season. "It's not him being ignorant ... sometimes you might need somebody to come shake you up."

Harris is embracing "one step faster" on defense by watching what he's eating. He's down 4 lbs and targeting low 240s.

Harris said Pettine's "dinosaur-ish" assessment of the defense could be seen on film.

Harris said everybody knows what Tebow can do. "He beat us singlehandedly, so we’ve seen it up close and personal."

Harris also guesses the Jets will use more 4-3 fronts after adding Coples, but he deferred to the coaches b/c he said he's not sure.

Harris never doubted Bart Scott would be back. "I knew he wasn't going anywhere. He's looking great. He lost 12 lbs already.

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This. Poe was known if you follow college Football. He was not a top 10 pick until combine. Big guys that can move go early. Thats the draft. Bottom line.

I barely follow college football..Eh I guess I do it more than most. He was really, really well known before that and got first round talk in 2011 if he came out.

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Jenny Vrentas@JennyVrentas

Caught up with David Harris and Darrelle Revis at Harris' golf tournament to benefit Give the Kids Hope Foundation.

Harris + Revis have seen more actively involved Rex Ryan. Revis said @ end of last yr Rex "did fade off a little bit" in daily coaching

Revis: "Maybe he thought he put more trust in the coaching staff, and seeing that it kind of hurt us last year, maybe, a little bit."

Revis said Rex thought locker-room problems were a "done deal" and realized at the end of the season they weren't.

Revis met with Rex after season. "It's not him being ignorant ... sometimes you might need somebody to come shake you up."

Harris is embracing "one step faster" on defense by watching what he's eating. He's down 4 lbs and targeting low 240s.

Harris said Pettine's "dinosaur-ish" assessment of the defense could be seen on film.

Harris said everybody knows what Tebow can do. "He beat us singlehandedly, so we’ve seen it up close and personal."

Harris also guesses the Jets will use more 4-3 fronts after adding Coples, but he deferred to the coaches b/c he said he's not sure.

Harris never doubted Bart Scott would be back. "I knew he wasn't going anywhere. He's looking great. He lost 12 lbs already.

Well I'll be damned..... maybe Harris slipped a bit ?? When you have LB's dropping weight for more speed and sign young fast LB's thats leaning to front 4's with the big men IMHO because if guys like Scott are losing lots of weight who's going to be taking on the O-Lineman to free things up for Harris like Scott has done his whole time here ? I'll stand by my idea the Jets are transitioning to much more of a base 4-3. Fully understand they use multiple fronts as well but I will say this if the Jets go with a 4-3 al;ignment of Coples Wilk Pace at DE Rotation and Ellis Pouha Divito as a DT rotation and it works well and they are killing QB's there wont be any reason do anything else.

Also I forgot to add the Jets could also use Coples as a DT in the 4 man front I think he actully did better there in college. Which would mean you could rotate Thomas Pace and Wilk at DE. I would also like to see Bellore get more playign time at LB hes a very active player who could do well in a 4-3.

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Well I'll be damned..... maybe Harris slipped a bit ?? When you have LB's dropping weight for more speed and sign young fast LB's thats leaning to front 4's with the big men IMHO because if guys like Scott are losing lots of weight who's going to be taking on the O-Lineman to free things up for Harris like Scott has done his whole time here ? I'll stand by my idea the Jets are transitioning to much more of a base 4-3. Fully understand they use multiple fronts as well but I will say this if the Jets go with a 4-3 al;ignment of Coples Wilk Pace at DE Rotation and Ellis Pouha Divito as a DT rotation and it works well and they are killing QB's there wont be any reason do anything else.

Also I forgot to add the Jets could also use Coples as a DT in the 4 man front I think he actully did better there in college. Which would mean you could rotate Thomas Pace and Wilk at DE. I would also like to see Bellore get more playign time at LB hes a very active player who could do well in a 4-3.

Him "guessing" that they are switching to the 4-3 and that you'd have to defer to the coaches because he's "not for sure" is making you pound your chest right now? lmfao. You never let me down Smash. And I highly doubt that was in response to a leading question like, Are you guys moving toward the 4-3 with all the weight you are losing and adding Coples? No. No way that happened. He was just popping off ideas that were coming to his head to talk about. Yeah, thats it.

And I told you 100 times they could use Coples all over the line in the 4 man fronts.

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Him "guessing" that they are switching to the 4-3 and that you'd have to defer to the coaches because he's "not for sure" is making you pound your chest right now? lmfao. You never let me down Smash. And I highly doubt that was in response to a leading question like, Are you guys moving toward the 4-3 with all the weight you are losing and adding Coples? No. No way that happened. He was just popping off ideas that were coming to his head to talk about. Yeah, thats it.

And I told you 100 times they could use Coples all over the line in the 4 man fronts.

JIF hes a player on the team and hes having these notions ya think maybe he might know a little something ? Not pounding my chest just yet bro but my feelings on the matter just got a little stronger. Honestly I dont give a damn what they do as long as it works,,,,, all we can do is take some gusses as to what we think might happen.

I know they can use Coples all across the line but I think he was most effective at DT that does not mean it transitions to the NFL but its where he has excelled in college

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Dunbar

Drafting Davis and Coples

Scott losing weight Harris trying to as well

just a few little hints.

For what its worth what Scott does in the 3-4 is taking on OL to free things up for Harris you dont lose weight to take on the big boys. Possible were looking at harris scott davis at LB with Davis playing MLB

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JIF hes a player on the team and hes having these notions ya think maybe he might know a little something ? Not pounding my chest just yet bro but my feelings on the matter just got a little stronger. Honestly I dont give a damn what they do as long as it works,,,,, all we can do is take some gusses as to what we think might happen.

I know they can use Coples all across the line but I think he was most effective at DT that does not mean it transitions to the NFL but its where he has excelled in college

Ugh, I'm sure he was responding to someone hinting toward the 4-3 in some fashion. You think he was just reeling off random thoughts for anyone who was listening? And he basically said, he has no idea if they are planning on doing that.

The Jets use multiple fronts, always have. They play a lot of 4 man fronts. They dropped back in coverage quite a bit last season. Having players that are versatile on the line and quicker LB'ers to cover TE's in those situations, fits what they want to do.

I would find it very odd if Rex decided to up and completely change his defensive scheme when its been one of the most successful systems in the league. What coach doesnt want more speed in the middle of the field? What coach doesnt want versatile big many on the line? All he did was get a guy to help coach them when they are in those fronts (Dunbar). His forte is teaching 3-4 DL technique. Does it as a HC. You always see him locking up with his guys and coaching that aspect of the game.

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Ugh, I'm sure he was responding to someone hinting toward the 4-3 in some fashion. You think he was just reeling off random thoughts for anyone who was listening? And he basically said, he has no idea if they are planning on doing that.

The Jets use multiple fronts, always have. They play a lot of 4 man fronts. They dropped back in coverage quite a bit last season. Having players that are versatile on the line and quicker LB'ers to cover TE's in those situations, fits what they want to do.

I would find it very odd if Rex decided to up and completely change his defensive scheme when its been one of the most successful systems in the league. What coach doesnt want more speed in the middle of the field? What coach doesnt want versatile big many on the line? All he did was get a guy to help coach them when they are in those fronts (Dunbar). His forte is teaching 3-4 DL technique. Does it as a HC. You always see him locking up with his guys and coaching that aspect of the game.

Look its obvious the Jets use alot of different fronts but they are not true 4-3 fronts so get that out of you head for a second. Lining up 4 Defensive Lineman is much different than the multiple sets your talking about. When we talk about BASE defense its a different story and IMO the Jets base defense will be 4-3 or a good chance it will be IMO. If im wrong who the hell cares Im making a jugement call on what I see no need to get all crazy about it JIF lets see what happens.

We finally got a WR this year Im a happy man. If im gonna pound my chest Ill certainly do it because I called the Hot mess we had on offense last year when it came to the OL and WR situation.

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Look its obvious the Jets use alot of different fronts but they are not true 4-3 fronts so get that out of you head for a second. Lining up 4 Defensive Lineman is much different than the multiple sets your talking about. When we talk about BASE defense its a different story and IMO the Jets base defense will be 4-3 or a good chance it will be IMO. If im wrong who the hell cares Im making a jugement call on what I see no need to get all crazy about it JIF lets see what happens.

We finally got a WR this year Im a happy man. If im gonna pound my chest Ill certainly do it because I called the Hot mess we had on offense last year when it came to the OL and WR situation.

I understand that and told you I find it very hard to believe that one of the best defensive minds in Football who has been using the same extremely successful schemes for years is going up and switch his base defense because he drafted a 6'6 285 DE/OLB and asked his LB'ers to lose a little weight so they could run faster.

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I understand that and told you I find it very hard to believe that one of the best defensive minds in Football who has been using the same extremely successful schemes for years is going up and switch his base defense because he drafted a 6'6 285 DE/OLB and asked his LB'ers to lose a little weight so they could run faster.

******* this.

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Dunbar

Drafting Davis and Coples

Scott losing weight Harris trying to as well

just a few little hints.

For what its worth what Scott does in the 3-4 is taking on OL to free things up for Harris you dont lose weight to take on the big boys. Possible were looking at harris scott davis at LB with Davis playing MLB

Harris would be the MLB, and the hints are that the defense was slow last year. Nobody cares what front they play because it's going to be more game and opponent specific anyway. You'll see plenty of everything. Coples and Davis are two guys who allow that flexibility.

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I mean, if we as fans all saw that the team speed was just slow as dirt last year, than of course Rex and the defensive staff knew that as well. I think part of the problem NE just killed us last year was that they started running on our smaller pass defense personnel. They couldn't do that in the playoff game the year before because we led most of the game. Lack of versatility from our defenders made us telegraph to the offense what we were stacking up against. Hopefully, if our LBers can cover better this year, we'd be able to be less transparent.

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The Jets are building towards a faster defense.

Coples adds speed, and moving him inside in the nickel gives them a fast, strong guy with a short path to the QB. Demario Davis has to be the Jets fastest LB. I'd like to see him and Maybin in a foot race, but in the nickel Maybin will be lined up at DE, anyway. Bart Scott lost weight to gain speed.

The Jets drafted with their sub packages in mind. I'm sure they're completely aware how the Giants beat the Pats when it mattered, and I'm sure they'd like to be able to put together that kind of front. Hopefully Coples is a start, but the Jets will probably be drafting another pass rusher in the first two rounds next year.

When the Jets want to stop the run, they will remain in their base 3-4. That's still going to be most of their schedule.

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With so many teams drafting for the 3-4 these days it makes it easier to get 4-3 talent in the draft. Its one of the reasons the Giants have been able to collect good 4-3 DE's.

Interesting, that would then mean that more teams play 3-4 than 4-3, no? Is that the case? Really dont know...curious. I always thought 4-3 was the more commonly used front.

Harris would be the MLB, and the hints are that the defense was slow last year. Nobody cares what front they play because it's going to be more game and opponent specific anyway. You'll see plenty of everything. Coples and Davis are two guys who allow that flexibility.

Pretty much. I do find it funny that all of this hoopla is because Rex wants faster LB'ers and drafted a monster for his DL. I mean, what is he thinking??? Must be switching to a 4-3 base. Otherwise, it makes no sense. I mean, what coach in their right mind wants fast LB'ers and big fast DE's?

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Pretty much. I do find it funny that all of this hoopla is because Rex wants faster LB'ers and drafted a monster for his DL. I mean, what is he thinking??? Must be switching to a 4-3 base. Otherwise, it makes no sense. I mean, what coach in their right mind wants fast LB'ers and big fast DE's?

I do find Rex adding those guys very suspicious.

Btw JiF do you know how close I was to typing out "The Jets will draft one of Zac Brown or DeMario Davis" in that prediction thread? For some reason it bothers me that I didn't, possibly because I need a hobby.

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I do find Rex adding those guys very suspicious.

Btw JiF do you know how close I was to typing out "The Jets will draft one of Zac Brown or DeMario Davis" in that prediction thread? For some reason it bothers me that I didn't, possibly because I need a hobby.

Agreed. Speed and size is just not something you need in the NFL.

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going back to the original post, I don't see how Coples is a 4-3 pick. He is scheme diverse and in fact might fit better as a 5-tech in a 3-4 than as a big LDE in a 4-3. He played DT as a junior. Demario Davis ok sure that guy is not a 3-4 OLB but Coples is like Shaun Ellis or Trevor Pryce. Tall, long arms, coples is as much as 3-4 pick as anyone. as for Davis I see him as a special teams dynamo/3rd down coverage or blitz linebacker and that role doesn't matter what defense you are in... it's gonna be Nickel or Dime for Davis.

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If you think Rex hasnt noticed that the G Men have beaten the patsies 2x in the SB with 4 down linemen you are smoking some serious shiz and I expect you to share at the Jax game. Why wouldnt he load up his line with 4 actual d-linemen(especially now since we have like 10 of them on our roster) instead of 1 nose, 2 ends and a LB with his hand in the dirt? It has been proven to beat the team that has owned the east, at least during the regular season.

It is a copycat league and if you think that Rex is married to the 3-4 just look at the beginning of last year and the ground and pound. He tried to adapt or at least let shottie try out the QB league and move away from the ground and pound. Lets not look at the results but look at the fact that Rex was willing to give up the ground and pound. Now lets look at the defense where Rex can and will have much more valuable input as a defensive minded coach. Add that to the fact that he has his MLBs dropping weight and I believe that we will line up at least in a few games in the 4-3, and not the "3-4 that looks like a 4-3". I completely understand that Rex lines up all sorts of defenses that we are currently calling a 3-4 but it is actually NOT a 3-4.

Point is, the "traditional" 4-3 beat the patsies and IMO our defensive talent is slightly better than the G MEN. They may have a small edge on the line and safety but we more than make up with our LBs and CBs. Going to be a fun year with opponents needing to practice against 2 types of offenses and 2 types of defenses.

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If you think Rex hasnt noticed that the G Men have beaten the patsies 2x in the SB with 4 down linemen you are smoking some serious shiz and I expect you to share at the Jax game. Why wouldnt he load up his line with 4 actual d-linemen(especially now since we have like 10 of them on our roster) instead of 1 nose, 2 ends and a LB with his hand in the dirt? It has been proven to beat the team that has owned the east, at least during the regular season.

It is a copycat league and if you think that Rex is married to the 3-4 just look at the beginning of last year and the ground and pound. He tried to adapt or at least let shottie try out the QB league and move away from the ground and pound. Lets not look at the results but look at the fact that Rex was willing to give up the ground and pound. Now lets look at the defense where Rex can and will have much more valuable input as a defensive minded coach. Add that to the fact that he has his MLBs dropping weight and I believe that we will line up at least in a few games in the 4-3, and not the "3-4 that looks like a 4-3". I completely understand that Rex lines up all sorts of defenses that we are currently calling a 3-4 but it is actually NOT a 3-4.

Point is, the "traditional" 4-3 beat the patsies and IMO our defensive talent is slightly better than the G MEN. They may have a small edge on the line and safety but we more than make up with our LBs and CBs. Going to be a fun year with opponents needing to practice against 2 types of offenses and 2 types of defenses.

Meh, they play a ton of 4 man fronts when they face the Pats. The reality is, this is the first season that he didnt have a least one game where they completely shut them down. I mean, yeah, the Pats had their way with the Jets this season but the offense kept handing them the ball over and over again. Rex has held them under 14 pts on 2 different occasions in his career and pretty much did in the playoffs till garbage time. Not many teams can say that, the Giants cant. In fact, the only teams in the last 3 years who have are the Browns (Rob Ryan) and the Ravens.

Anyway, it was noticeable the Jets had issues getting to the QB and covering the middle of the field. He's addressing that. Seems pretty logical to me.

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If you think Rex hasnt noticed that the G Men have beaten the patsies 2x in the SB with 4 down linemen you are smoking some serious shiz and I expect you to share at the Jax game. Why wouldnt he load up his line with 4 actual d-linemen(especially now since we have like 10 of them on our roster) instead of 1 nose, 2 ends and a LB with his hand in the dirt? It has been proven to beat the team that has owned the east, at least during the regular season.

It is a copycat league and if you think that Rex is married to the 3-4 just look at the beginning of last year and the ground and pound. He tried to adapt or at least let shottie try out the QB league and move away from the ground and pound. Lets not look at the results but look at the fact that Rex was willing to give up the ground and pound. Now lets look at the defense where Rex can and will have much more valuable input as a defensive minded coach. Add that to the fact that he has his MLBs dropping weight and I believe that we will line up at least in a few games in the 4-3, and not the "3-4 that looks like a 4-3". I completely understand that Rex lines up all sorts of defenses that we are currently calling a 3-4 but it is actually NOT a 3-4.

Point is, the "traditional" 4-3 beat the patsies and IMO our defensive talent is slightly better than the G MEN. They may have a small edge on the line and safety but we more than make up with our LBs and CBs. Going to be a fun year with opponents needing to practice against 2 types of offenses and 2 types of defenses.

good post yet some still dont get the difference between a 4-3 base defense and droping in a 4 man front with a LB with hand in the dirt. Its not the same.

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good post yet some still dont get the difference between a 4-3 base defense and droping in a 4 man front with a LB with hand in the dirt. Its not the same.

And some other people don't get that the defense is as much a 46 as it is a 34 and since they're in the nickel more often than not this is all semantics and kind of a stupid argument.

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And some other people don't get that the defense is as much a 46 as it is a 34 and since they're in the nickel more often than not this is all semantics and kind of a stupid argument.

I think I covered that when I stated that the 3-4 we line up in more often than not looks like anything but a 3-4. The point is that IMO we are going to run more of a traditional 4-3 with 4 actual defensive linemen rather than 3 DL + 1 LB. Seems like just semantics but there is a much bigger difference to having some big DEs and 2 tackles to cover your LBs than having 3 big guys and your LBs being asked to shed more blocks.

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