slats Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Lol. Keep fighting the good fight. Okay. Cowboys offensive rankings, 92-95, the championship era: 92. #5 passing yards, #5 passing TDs, #5 rushing yards, #2 rushing TDs. 93. #7 & 13 passing, 2 & 1 rushing. 94. #19 & 16 passing, 5 & 1 rushing. 95. #18 & 22 passing, 2 & 1 rushing. He was a game manager. He managed games. He had a prolific OL, and a prolific RB, and when he had to throw, he had a prolific receiver to throw to. But mostly he just managed games. Second, then first in rushing TDs over the next three years. Unheard of. Very fortunate situation for him. He was Bernie Kosar on a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbone Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Yup. And Sanchez is nipping at his heels.lol P.S. Since you are such a stickler for only measuring YDs and TDs as the end all be all. Aikman career YDs > Kosar career YDs by about 9000 Aiman career TDs > Kosar career TDs by about 40 Aikman career completions > Kosar career completion by about 1000 By your definition, Aikman is better than Kosar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Yup. And Sanchez is nipping at his heels.lol P.S. Since you are such a stickler for only measuring YDs and TDs as the end all be all. Aikman career YDs > Kosar career YDs by about 9000 Aiman career TDs > Kosar career TDs by about 40 Aikman career completions > Kosar career completion by about 1000 By your definition, Aikman is better than Kosar. 1.) never claimed Sanchez was nipping at Aikman's heels, only that the Aikman bar isn't that high. 2.) thanks! And being that you seem to think that the QBR is the be all end all stat for a QB, I'll give you this: Bernie Kosar career QBR: 81.8 Troy Aikman career QBR: 81.6 Bernie's better than Aikman by your standard, and managed to be better without the benefit of the best OL/RB in football drawing every defense's attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbone Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 If you call throwing for 23000 yds and 125 TDs better than 33000 yds and 165 TDs. Sure he was. I have no doubts you will. Unlike you (who claimed only YDs and TDs matter as production), I never claimed QBR was the end all be all, I just chose to use it because it encompasses far more variables than the only 2 you insist on using. I used his consistent top 6 QBR rating as evidence of his skills, while you use counterfactual statements that cannot be either proven or disproven. You just assume anyone could win three super bowls when plugged into the cowboys and have better production than Aikman with zero ability to support such a claim. You are literally completely taking every iota of credit Aikman ever EARNED in his career away from him. It interesting how you are so quick to marginalize him. It's almost as if you are a closet Giants fan or something. I dare you to find one single post where I used Aikman's career QBR as evidence to his greatness. I'll save you the time, I haven't. You just made that up. I made statements like "he was top 6 in QBR for 6 or 7 seasons" or something like that, but never used that 81.6 number as proof of anything (as it averages in some of his more terrible years, so why would I?) Plus, I dont mind conceding that QBR point you made, as the magnitude of difference is much larger in the areas I pointed out. I was off by .2, you were off by 10000 yds and 40 TDs. If this was the price is right, I win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 I demonstrated statistically that he was a game manager. You're the one who feels that takes credit away from him, not me. I pointed to his game manager capabilities as something I'd like to see from Sanchez, and you got your panties all bunched over it. Sorry if the numbers make you upset. The Cowboys had a middle of the pack passing offense and prolific rushing offense while Aikman was at the helm, and he managed it very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 This is getting ridiculous. Troy Aikman WAS a game manager in an incredibly powerful offense that was built to Ground and Pound and move the chains when needed with one of the best posession WR's ever to play the game. Honestly Bernie Kosar should not even be into the equasion because thats just giving jbone the option of comparing Aikman to Kosar which really cant be done in my opinion due to extensively different circumstances. The Jets are trying to emulate exactly what the Cowboys were able to do in the early to mid ninties with talent thats not even remotely colse to what that football team had, and YES, that does include the offensive line, the Running back, the TE, the Fullback, and the WR's. The Jets had the chance after their first run to the AFCCG to make some smart moves to better the team and in all their glory the fix was adding Santonio Holmes and then 1 year later sign him to probably the stupidest (on so many levels) contract in team history . The Jets claim to be a ground and Pound football team yet in the Rex Regime they refuse to spend an early pick on an every down back and refused up till this year to get a real WR who usually take more than their first year to develop . And the one pick they used on an offensive lineman was Vlad Freakin Ducasse. I think this team still has the CORE players on both offense and Defense to make the playoffs, but with competitions like Ducasse/Hunter and settling for Slauson at LG and also dealing with the very possible decline of Moore (who I loved his whole time as a Jet) We will be extremely lucky to go far in the playoffs. You just do not get very far with glaring holes in so many areas along with very possible question marks at Safety. Theres a whole bunch to sink your teeth into Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Even mentioning Sanchez in the same sentence with Aikman is just absurd. Guy had way more talent in his pinky toe than Mark has in his whole body case closed. Troy could actually complete an accurate downfield pass. No really he could..... honest! Aikman may have been a great game manager ( god I hate that stupid term) but why wouldnt he be? Isnt that all he had to be on that team? Why run any other type offense with that line and E. Smith? As far as his fall off at age 31, Arent concussions what cut his career short? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbone Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 Even mentioning Sanchez in the same sentence with Aikman is just absurd. Or retarded, unreasonable, nonsensical, preposterous, insane.....there are other suitable words to describe such a comparison. BTW, slat, you compared Kosar to Aikman first. Be careful what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Aikman may have been a great game manager Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 This is poop sperm Yes Im being sarcastic When I make the case of getting Sanchez some weapons I get ripped for it yet your making the case that Aikman really didnt get better until the talent around him did. Why does the arguement work in some cases and not others keeping in mind Sanchez may never ever even come close to the supporting cast Aikman had around him. Aikman had absolutely nothing his first 2 years. Sanchez had a lot to work with, including a defense that kept the Jets out of must-pass situations. The Jets had the #1 defense and #1 rushing attack and the league's best OL as a rookie, and top-5 at worst in all those areas in his 2nd year. The Jets also were not totally devoid of receiving talent either no matter how bad you say they all are. Aikman's first 2 years in particular, Dallas had nothing in those categories. Sanchez has had it easy. By year 3 we had to rely a little more on our franchise QB, paid like he's among the best, and it was a huge flop. Look, I really hope he improves. GREATLY improves. I don't see it happening. There are just too many things he's very bad at all at the same time, and the team is too talented to just waste it so Mark Sanchez can get his reps in for the 4th straight year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Aikman had absolutely nothing his first 2 years. Sanchez had a lot to work with, including a defense that kept the Jets out of must-pass situations. The Jets had the #1 defense and #1 rushing attack and the league's best OL as a rookie, and top-5 at worst in all those areas in his 2nd year. The Jets also were not totally devoid of receiving talent either no matter how bad you say they all are. Aikman's first 2 years in particular, Dallas had nothing in those categories. Sanchez has had it easy. By year 3 we had to rely a little more on our franchise QB, paid like he's among the best, and it was a huge flop. Look, I really hope he improves. GREATLY improves. I don't see it happening. There are just too many things he's very bad at all at the same time, and the team is too talented to just waste it so Mark Sanchez can get his reps in for the 4th straight year. Great post. I agree 110%. Sanchez will have to change in major way. Hate to say it - but Tim Tebow is more ready to lead this team than Sanchez is. I think Jets fans are going to be pleasantly surprised with Tebow's performance this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 All I'm saying is that getting Sanchez to perform at the level of a competent game manager can yield super bowl championship results. I used Aikman and Simms as examples. I find it funny that in NY, no one came to Phil's defense the way they did Aikman's. I guess that's the power of highlight reels over watching the guy every week. Dilfer is usually the example, but he's an extreme example. There's Jim McMahon, Bob Greise, Jeff Hostetler, any QB Joe Gibbs won with.... For Sanchez, it's a mental hump he needs to get over. If he just doesn't make the dumb throws, he's well more than halfway there. I think he's performed pretty well for a kid who only started 16 games in college. I think there's still room for improvement. But it's not like I'm in love with the guy, or that I could guarantee that he can get there. He could regress this year under a new system. A part of me is concerned that they brought Tebow in to run some sort of caveman offense full time. Mark could be on a short leash, and all this could be moot. Just saying that playing at the level of Troy Aikman is no great leap from where he's currently at. He doesn't have to be Manning or Brady, he just needs to up his comp % a little bit, and avoid the boneheaded throws into the DL. That's not really that much of a reach. I don't think Aikman was as great as he gets credit for being either. But Sanchez is a long way off from where Aikman was. Saying he just neds to up his comp % a bit is a stretch, and is more difficult than you're making it out to be. Sanchez has terrible accuracy despite having thrown to receivers capable of some pretty impressive acrobatics. From point-blank range, he rifles fastballs at the top of the helmet of a RB whose hands are down near his waist. He has terrible feel for where his receivers are expecting a football to be. Like I said during the season, he's not just a little ahead or a little behind always. That is easier to fix. He's all over the friggin' place. There is no pattern, there is no one thing he's doing. He's high, he's low, he throws too hard, he throws too soft, he leads too much, he throws behind them. Compound that with him getting rid of it too quickly when protection is there and standing there like a dummy (with the ball away from his body) for too long when protection is breaking down. Three years into his career he still stares down his primary target like he's never played the position before. He double-pumps when he's in (or should be in) a hurry to get rid of it. And not even a fake pump to one receiver to get coverage to cheat one way, only for Sanchez to make them pay by throwing it so someone else. He fake pumps at the same receiver in the same place. So his "fake" pump is effectively a split-second warning to the defense where (and when) he's going to throw the ball to. He's just a bad QB. Now a lot of it gets masked because, despite what people read here, receivers do actually get open and defenses he plays against also are capable of playing badly at times. He also clearly has some talent and that can hide a lot of things. Some things I've never bought into were notions of him being too short or not having enough arm strength. He's plenty tall and can throw plenty hard enough. And none of this critique gets into any maturity or leadership questions surrounding him plus all financial incentives for the season being taken away by the next 2 seasons being the 100% guaranteed starter no matter who else they added from Denver. So he's a long way from being the QB Aikman was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Aikman had absolutely nothing his first 2 years. Sanchez had a lot to work with, including a defense that kept the Jets out of must-pass situations. The Jets had the #1 defense and #1 rushing attack and the league's best OL as a rookie, and top-5 at worst in all those areas in his 2nd year. The Jets also were not totally devoid of receiving talent either no matter how bad you say they all are. Aikman's first 2 years in particular, Dallas had nothing in those categories. Sanchez has had it easy. By year 3 we had to rely a little more on our franchise QB, paid like he's among the best, and it was a huge flop. Look, I really hope he improves. GREATLY improves. I don't see it happening. There are just too many things he's very bad at all at the same time, and the team is too talented to just waste it so Mark Sanchez can get his reps in for the 4th straight year. Say what you will about Aikmans first 2 years having nothing when his Offensive line was in place he had Micheal Irvin Jay Novachek Emmitt Smith and Daryl Johnston. He didnt have Emmitt until year 2 but at least they built around him and like all smart teams they got him playmakers to grow with at an early stage. Once again who did the Jets get for Mark Sanchez to throw the ball to in his first year ? No one. They had to trade in the 4th game of the season in desparation to get Braylon Edwards in here a guy most thought was trouble and on a major down trend other than that he had no one to throw the ball too or grow with over his first 3 years as a QB. Then in year two we bring in a guy who had to sit the first 4 games due to suspension amd a 31 year old washed up RB and you want to compare what the cowboys had their first 2 years to what the Jets had ?? You must be kidding me . Lets not forget we added a guy fresh out of jail last year and a 38 year old mini cancer to help our young QB break out.. You may not believe this but QB's do very well when given young talent to grow with Aikman Irvin Smith Novachek and Johnston were all there in Aikmans first 2 years and in year 3 it started to pay huge dividends and you compare that to the Jets situation ? With complete sh*t at WR Sanchez happened to play very well at the QB position both of his first 2 years in the playoffs. Aikman also had a better defense in place than most give credit for the first 2 years but Aikman was horrific at the QB position pretty amazing that same defense was number one in the NFL when Aikman and the players he was able to grow with started doing great in year 3. Comparing that entire situation to what Sanchez has had is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Saying he just neds to up his comp % a bit is a stretch, and is more difficult than you're making it out to be. Sanchez has terrible accuracy despite having thrown to receivers capable of some pretty impressive acrobatics. From point-blank range, he rifles fastballs at the top of the helmet of a RB whose hands are down near his waist. He has terrible feel for where his receivers are expecting a football to be. Like I said during the season, he's not just a little ahead or a little behind always. That is easier to fix. He's all over the friggin' place. There is no pattern, there is no one thing he's doing. He's high, he's low, he throws too hard, he throws too soft, he leads too much, he throws behind them. Compound that with him getting rid of it too quickly when protection is there and standing there like a dummy (with the ball away from his body) for too long when protection is breaking down. Three years into his career he still stares down his primary target like he's never played the position before. He double-pumps when he's in (or should be in) a hurry to get rid of it. And not even a fake pump to one receiver to get coverage to cheat one way, only for Sanchez to make them pay by throwing it so someone else. He fake pumps at the same receiver in the same place. So his "fake" pump is effectively a split-second warning to the defense where (and when) he's going to throw the ball to. No one, certainly not me, denies that Sanchez needs to improve. He does. Last year, he did manage to improve. Despite no off season and crap at the WR position, he Improved his comp% and his TD%. He capable of improvement. I absolutely hated Schottenheimer's offense, and I think a lot of these complaints can be traced back to it. All the pass plays in Schotty's offense are slow developing, with WRs making a read and adjusting their routes, and Sanchez needing to know every one of those adjustments, and figuring out who would be open and getting the ball there. All way too much thinking. It slows down all the reaction times and leads to the ball being held too long, miscommunications between the QB and receiver, and incompletions, interceptions, and sacks. Brett Favre came here, told Schotty to go fvck himself, and ran what he wanted to run. Sanchez obviously doesn't have that kind of juice, and was forced to run that crap system. It's gone now, time for Bradford to regress. I have some real optimism that a more straight forward offense will help Sanchez a lot. If he's thinking less, I'll expect fewer mental errors. I think the two speedy, 6'4" WRs could help, too. He's just a bad QB. Now a lot of it gets masked because, despite what people read here, receivers do actually get open and defenses he plays against also are capable of playing badly at times. He also clearly has some talent and that can hide a lot of things. Some things I've never bought into were notions of him being too short or not having enough arm strength. He's plenty tall and can throw plenty hard enough. And none of this critique gets into any maturity or leadership questions surrounding him plus all financial incentives for the season being taken away by the next 2 seasons being the 100% guaranteed starter no matter who else they added from Denver. You say he's just a bad QB, but then you say he has talent. I think he can be a good QB. He certainly deserves a shot at it minus Schottenheimer. Maturity and mental toughness are real issues for him, too. No disagreement there. If he can't get his head right, he'll never get there. That's the biggest wildcard. There's no question that he has a lot of confidence. That's a positive. I agree with the complaints that he's been coddled, and I think that came to a screeching halt with the acquisition of Timmy. Maybe sh!t gets real for him as a result. I definitely disagree that he's guaranteed to be the starter the next two years. I could see Rex going with Tebow if Sanchez continues to struggle with ball security. Anything short of dramatic improvement from Mark will lead to calls for Tim inside the stadium and in the papers. Rex will be happy with an offense that controls the clock and doesn't turn it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbone Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 So he's a long way from being the QB Aikman was. A voice of reason. You may not believe this but QB's do very well when given young talent to grow with Aikman Irvin Smith Novachek and Johnston were all there in Aikmans first 2 years and in year 3 it started to pay huge dividends and you compare that to the Jets situation ? With complete sh*t at WR Sanchez happened to play very well at the QB position both of his first 2 years in the playoffs. Aikman also had a better defense in place than most give credit for the first 2 years but Aikman was horrific at the QB position pretty amazing that same defense was number one in the NFL when Aikman and the players he was able to grow with started doing great in year 3. Comparing that entire situation to what Sanchez has had is ridiculous. Implicit in all these types of comments is the assumption it was a one way direction of improvement flowing from all the players making Aikman better. It works both ways, he also made the guys around him bettter. You can't have it just one way. It doesn't work like that. Aikman made Irvin a better player and vice versa and that is true with every position on the offense except for probably RB, Smith would have been great regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 And Aikman is .2 away from being Kosar. So close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbone Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 It funny you ignore the actual post because you can't address it w/o writing a short story. That and you probably didn't even realize you were applying such one sided assumptions in your argument. It doesn't surprise me you think someone with 23000 pass yds is on a Hall of famer level. Can't wait for Sanchez to pass him up. Any day now, right? Just bring that competion % up a bit. LMAO. Plus, you are just in stalker mode now, lurking behind a computer hoping to read one one of my posts. I didn't even address you, yet you feel the need to interject. Anxious much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 A voice of reason. Implicit in all these types of comments is the assumption it was a one way direction of improvement flowing from all the players making Aikman better. It works both ways, he also made the guys around him bettter. You can't have it just one way. It doesn't work like that. Aikman made Irvin a better player and vice versa and that is true with every position on the offense except for probably RB, Smith would have been great regardless. jbone Im not disagreeing young players growing together is a 2 way street but Sanchez was the only guy on the street surrounded by thugs and a moron for a OC. I think you will start to see a difference this year. While I still think we lack a real 3 down back and have a few holes in the O-line I think you will see a difference just because Shotty is way the hell out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbone Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 Fair enough, smash. I too am excited to see what Marky Mark can do in a system where he doesn't have to spend so much time memorizing proper alignments, motions and constant shifts. Just go out and play and see what happens. Sparano is definitely going to make it easier on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 It funny you ignore the actual post because you can't address it w/o writing a short story. That and you probably didn't even realize you were applying such one sided assumptions in your argument. It doesn't surprise me you think someone with 23000 pass yds is on a Hall of famer level. Can't wait for Sanchez to pass him up. Any day now, right? Just bring that competion % up a bit. LMAO. Plus, you are just in stalker mode now, lurking behind a computer hoping to read one one of my posts. I didn't even address you, yet you feel the need to interject. Anxious much? All I said was that there's nothing wrong with Mark developing into a game manager. Cited Troy Aikman as a game manager who won superbowls. Your panties got bunched. I get it, though. I had a poster of the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders in my bedroom growing up, you had one of Troy. It's cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbone Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 You have started to bore me with the same posts over and over. Seems more like you had a dart board with Troy's pic near the bulls eye growing up. Please, show me where I said Mark cannot turn into a decent game manager. I said he couldnt turn into Troy Aikman, which I am 100% confident in. You are equating the 2, which makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 You have started to bore me with the same posts over and over. Seems more like you had a dart board with Troy's pic near the bulls eye growing up. Please, show me where I said Mark cannot turn into a decent game manager. I said he couldnt turn into Troy Aikman, which I am 100% confident in. You are equating the 2, which makes no sense. Well jbone with all due respect I hope Sanchez turns into more than Troy Aikman because Aikman never really put up eye opening stats. He was an effiecient QB who played very well within Jimmy Johnsons system and he deserves a lot of credit for that no doubt. It was an easy system with overwhelming talent at damn near every position, HOF talent to be exact. We do not have that type of team, yet we will be running a similar type offense under Sparano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbone Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 Hey, I would like nothing more than for that to happen, as well. I am not going to sit here and say I wouldn't want that, cause I think our team is capable of very good things as long as we have a QB who protects the ball and operates efficiently. Sanchez doesn't do either of those things yet. Not saying he can't eventually. I just think it isn't very likely to happen. I am rooting hard for it to happen, but I wouldn't bet on it. A lot of cognitive dissonance when it comes to this. Lol This year should answer several of the questions most of us have regarding our QB situation. It does suck though, that going on year 4, he is still auditioning to see if he is our long term answer. That is a pretty long experiment to run. I doubt those who drafted him thought they would be in this situation going on his 4th season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Say what you will about Aikmans first 2 years having nothing when his Offensive line was in place he had Micheal Irvin Jay Novachek Emmitt Smith and Daryl Johnston. He didnt have Emmitt until year 2 but at least they built around him and like all smart teams they got him playmakers to grow with at an early stage. Once again who did the Jets get for Mark Sanchez to throw the ball to in his first year ? No one. They had to trade in the 4th game of the season in desparation to get Braylon Edwards in here a guy most thought was trouble and on a major down trend other than that he had no one to throw the ball too or grow with over his first 3 years as a QB. Then in year two we bring in a guy who had to sit the first 4 games due to suspension amd a 31 year old washed up RB and you want to compare what the cowboys had their first 2 years to what the Jets had ?? You must be kidding me . Lets not forget we added a guy fresh out of jail last year and a 38 year old mini cancer to help our young QB break out.. You may not believe this but QB's do very well when given young talent to grow with Aikman Irvin Smith Novachek and Johnston were all there in Aikmans first 2 years and in year 3 it started to pay huge dividends and you compare that to the Jets situation ? With complete sh*t at WR Sanchez happened to play very well at the QB position both of his first 2 years in the playoffs. Aikman also had a better defense in place than most give credit for the first 2 years but Aikman was horrific at the QB position pretty amazing that same defense was number one in the NFL when Aikman and the players he was able to grow with started doing great in year 3. Comparing that entire situation to what Sanchez has had is ridiculous. Where do you get this fictitious nonsense from? The Jets' OL in Sanchez's first 2 seasons was far better than the OL Aikman had. As a rookie he got knocked unconscious by that OL. Receivers: better overall on the Jets. Ground attack: better on the Jets. OL: better on the Jets. Defense (keeping tons of pressure off the QB): better on the Jets. You sure you watched football back then? The Cowboys sucked and that was the situation Aikman got thrown into. The Jets were a choke game or two away from being a playoff team the prior season and that's what Sanchez walked into. NFL's #1 OL, #1 rushing game, and #1 defense. You are on crack if you think Sanchez didn't walk into a cushy situation, and one far better than Aikman. I don't even know how this came up. Aikman, for all his shortcomings, was twice the QB Sanchez will ever be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 No one, certainly not me, denies that Sanchez needs to improve. He does. Last year, he did manage to improve. Despite no off season and crap at the WR position, he Improved his comp% and his TD%. He capable of improvement. I absolutely hated Schottenheimer's offense, and I think a lot of these complaints can be traced back to it. All the pass plays in Schotty's offense are slow developing, with WRs making a read and adjusting their routes, and Sanchez needing to know every one of those adjustments, and figuring out who would be open and getting the ball there. All way too much thinking. It slows down all the reaction times and leads to the ball being held too long, miscommunications between the QB and receiver, and incompletions, interceptions, and sacks. Brett Favre came here, told Schotty to go fvck himself, and ran what he wanted to run. Sanchez obviously doesn't have that kind of juice, and was forced to run that crap system. It's gone now, time for Bradford to regress. I have some real optimism that a more straight forward offense will help Sanchez a lot. If he's thinking less, I'll expect fewer mental errors. I think the two speedy, 6'4" WRs could help, too. You say he's just a bad QB, but then you say he has talent. I think he can be a good QB. He certainly deserves a shot at it minus Schottenheimer. Maturity and mental toughness are real issues for him, too. No disagreement there. If he can't get his head right, he'll never get there. That's the biggest wildcard. There's no question that he has a lot of confidence. That's a positive. I agree with the complaints that he's been coddled, and I think that came to a screeching halt with the acquisition of Timmy. Maybe sh!t gets real for him as a result. I definitely disagree that he's guaranteed to be the starter the next two years. I could see Rex going with Tebow if Sanchez continues to struggle with ball security. Anything short of dramatic improvement from Mark will lead to calls for Tim inside the stadium and in the papers. Rex will be happy with an offense that controls the clock and doesn't turn it over. One can be a bad QB and be talented. I don't see how that is contradictory. I don't think I'll miss Schottenheimer either. We'll see what the year holds in store for us. It would be awesome if I'm dead-wrong about Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Where do you get this fictitious nonsense from? The Jets' OL in Sanchez's first 2 seasons was far better than the OL Aikman had. As a rookie he got knocked unconscious by that OL. Receivers: better overall on the Jets. Ground attack: better on the Jets. OL: better on the Jets. Defense (keeping tons of pressure off the QB): better on the Jets. You sure you watched football back then? The Cowboys sucked and that was the situation Aikman got thrown into. The Jets were a choke game or two away from being a playoff team the prior season and that's what Sanchez walked into. NFL's #1 OL, #1 rushing game, and #1 defense. You are on crack if you think Sanchez didn't walk into a cushy situation, and one far better than Aikman. I don't even know how this came up. Aikman, for all his shortcomings, was twice the QB Sanchez will ever be. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damaged89 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 LOL Is it your position that the 2009-2010 Jets were holding back Mark Sanchez and not the other way around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I've been watching hard knocks ravens 2001, and it's pretty interesting with rex and matt cavanaugh on the staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Is it your position that the 2009-2010 Jets were holding back Mark Sanchez and not the other way around? Its my position we lacked talent at the skill positions and that Brian Shottenheimer did a horrible job with the offense and every QB hes touched since coming into the league. You can disagree with that all you like and I'll be fine with it. Now ...Comparing the Jets of 09 on offense to How the Cowboys built their team from 89 on is ridiculous. The 89 Cowboys were young and made mistakes but they were in place to grow together as a team and they did. What exactly did the Jets do for Mark Sanchez ?? His first year they didnt even get him a WR when they realized we had nothing they traded for Braylon Edwards in weeek 4, then traded for Holmes (on suspension) in year 2, then the next year they ignored the serious depth issue on the offensive line yet signed such stellar team players like Burress and Mason and Dumped Braylon the one guy Sanchez seemed to have the best chemistry with and was our only deep threat You can blame all of this on Sanchez and once again thats fine its your opinion I happen top think Sanchez has the talent to be a damn good QB in this league. For what its worth Damaged I have been saying this about the Jets offense for years I didnt come up with this crap overnight just to stick up for Sanchez. This team has been ignorant on offense for years. Mangini did the right thing building the offensive line first but we never filled any of the skill positions and the Rex regime has been no different a Player Like Hill should have been drafted in year one or two with Sanchez or at the very least a 3 down RB. All this being said I still think the biggest problem was Shottenheimer because that idiot thought by over complicating the offense he was doing something good now the players are slowly coming out saying they were all having issues grasping the offense. What the guy did was create confusion and when you see a QB miss a WR by a large margin its got NOTHING to do with accuracy and a lot to do with the players being on the same page. Sanchez had a comp percentage of 65 % in college if he was just plain inaccurate as a passer he would have never had those numbers. Yes college is different than the Pro's but confusion is much different than inaccuracy as well. I think we see a large difference in Sanchez this year and Im excited that Shott is out of here, If you have no faith what so ever in Sanchez getting better than all I can say to you is lets see what happens and we can revisit this at the end of the season. If Im wrong I will admit it with no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damaged89 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I think we see a large difference in Sanchez this year and Im excited that Shott is out of here, If you have no faith what so ever in Sanchez getting better than all I can say to you is lets see what happens and we can revisit this at the end of the season. If Im wrong I will admit it with no problem. I hope you're right. I wouldn't say I have no faith whatsoever, but there's just not any real reason to believe he's going to improve dramatically. I would love nothing more than for him to have an excellent year and prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbone Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 What the guy did was create confusion and when you see a QB miss a WR by a large margin its got NOTHING to do with accuracy and a lot to do with the players being on the same page. The consistency with which it seems to happen to Sanchez makes me think his deficiencies in the accuracy department play a role. Hard to say it had nothing to do with it. Perhaps the confusion the offense created was a very large factor, I don't know, but it certainly wasn't the only reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 The consistency with which it seems to happen to Sanchez makes me think his deficiencies in the accuracy department play a role. Hard to say it had nothing to do with it. Perhaps the confusion the offense created was a very large factor, I don't know, but it certainly wasn't the only reason. Very well could be we'll just have to see how it plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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