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has anyone ever found the fountain of youth like Kevin Garnett this post season?

Blackout

By Blackout
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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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He's always been one of those players that I undoubtedly want on my team and would love if he were, but on any of the other 29 teams he's absolutely one of my least favorite players. Can't deny he's playing his a$$ of, nor can you take away that he gives it 110% every time he steps out on the court. If he weren't such a giant douche I would respect him that much more.

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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Wha? It's not even up for debate. There's Duncan at 1 and there is no 1B.

Fact, if we consider him a 4. The harder question for me has been if we consider him a 5, which is what he's really been, where does he rank then, six?? I'd be hard-pressed to put him over Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Hakeem or Shaq, but it's hard to imagine Duncan not being in the top 5, not sure who to bump.

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RyanBe_Tweetin

RyanBe_Tweetin

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Fact, if we consider him a 4. The harder question for me has been if we consider him a 5, which is what he's really been, where does he rank then, six?? I'd be hard-pressed to put him over Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Hakeem or Shaq, but it's hard to imagine Duncan not being in the top 5, not sure who to bump.

Its not hard to imagine when you look at the names in that top 5. The truth is theres been more amazing players at the 5 than the 4.

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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Its not hard to imagine when you look at the names in that top 5. The truth is theres been more amazing players at the 5 than the 4.

Without a doubt and if it were me, I would bump Russell and add Duncan, but I know I'd catch a lot of sh*t for that. The thing I love about Duncan, is that he gets better in every single facet of the game once he gets to the playoffs.

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RutgersJetFan

RutgersJetFan

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Fact, if we consider him a 4. The harder question for me has been if we consider him a 5, which is what he's really been, where does he rank then, six??

Nah. That's just now. Switching back and forth throughout a career between the two doesn't necessitate it, otherwise you really should be saying the same thing about Garnett. Even Barkley's been saying for years that he's the greatest PF of all-time. All of his All-Star appearances were at PF. Just because he guarded Shaq doesn't mean he was a center. He saw time at center sure, but so have plenty of 4's. Including Garnett who's seen a ton of time at the 5. Stat too. Still a 4.

Garnett can probably be inserted anywhere between 2 and 6 depending on what you're looking for. Bob Pettit probably doesn't deserve to be kicked down to 9, but I'm a Knicks homer and would take Dave D over him. Guy was Rodman before Rodman ever existed.

1. Duncan

2. Malone

3. Barkley

4. Garnett

5. McHale

6. Dirk

7. Debusschere

8. Hayes

9. Pettit

10. Rodman

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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Nah. That's just now. Switching back and forth throughout a career between the two doesn't necessitate it, otherwise you really should be saying the same thing about Garnett. Even Barkley's been saying for years that he's the greatest PF of all-time. All of his All-Star appearances were at PF. Just because he guarded Shaq doesn't mean he was a center. He saw time at center sure, but so have plenty of 4's. Including Garnett who's seen a ton of time at the 5. Stat too. Still a 4.

Garnett can probably be inserted anywhere between 2 and 6 depending on what you're looking for. Bob Pettit probably doesn't deserve to be kicked down to 9, but I'm a Knicks homer and would take Dave D over him. Guy was Rodman before Rodman ever existed.

1. Duncan

2. Malone

3. Barkley

4. Garnett

5. McHale

6. Dirk

7. Debusschere

8. Hayes

9. Pettit

10. Rodman

I think everyone is in agreement that Duncan is 1 and then 2 is a ways below. I was just posing the question as ever since Pop told the media prior to the Jazz game that "Duncan would be the center, just as he has been for the last 15 years," had me wondering if we did judge him a center, would he be able to crack the top five. Gun to your head and you had to consider him as a center, would you be able to put him over Wilt, Russell, Hakeem, Shaq or Kareem?? (Assuming your top five without Duncan is similar to mine.)

As far as Garnett, I agree on the anywhere from 2-6; my only major knock on him is his playoff performances. His first seven playoff appearances he was bounced in the first round. Yea, I know he was on some dreadful teams, but I remember reading that in his nine or so elimination games he had a 18-11-6 line on 40 percent shooting and had that 7 pts and 10 TO game against Seattle, which is something I wouldn't expect from a first ballot HOFer. Regardless, even though I have a tough time getting by all those first round exits, I'd still have no problem with him as the 2nd best PF of all time.

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RutgersJetFan

RutgersJetFan

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I think everyone is in agreement that Duncan is 1 and then 2 is a ways below. I was just posing the question as ever since Pop told the media prior to the Jazz game that "Duncan would be the center, just as he has been for the last 15 years," had me wondering if we did judge him a center, would he be able to crack the top five. Gun to your head and you had to consider him as a center, would you be able to put him over Wilt, Russell, Hakeem, Shaq or Kareem?? (Assuming your top five without Duncan is similar to mine.)

Oh what the hell does Gregg Popovich know anyways.

Gun to head? 3rd behind Russell and Kareem. Definitely ahead of Wilt and Dream. If I needed Shaq or Duncan for one game, obviously Shaq in his prime. But as a player and for a career I think you'd have to give the nod to Duncan. The thing about Shaq, a lot of people forget that for quite a while Robinson and Hakeem used to beat the living sh*t out of him all up and down the court. No one at any point in his career has owned Duncan. Even during his early years. Not to mention he's one of two players in history that actually could handle Shaq in his prime, Wallace being the other.

As far as Garnett, I agree on the anywhere from 2-6; my only major knock on him is his playoff performances. His first seven playoff appearances he was bounced in the first round. Yea, I know he was on some dreadful teams, but I remember reading that in his nine or so elimination games he had a 18-11-6 line on 40 percent shooting and had that 7 pts and 10 TO game against Seattle, which is something I wouldn't expect from a first ballot HOFer. Regardless, even though I have a tough time getting by all those first round exits, I'd still have no problem with him as the 2nd best PF of all time.

I can't even hate too much those playoff performances. The next best guy on the court with him was Terrell Brandon and later on Troy Murphy. All of a sudden you put him next to Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and the guy turns into a beast in the playoffs. (Ditto for Pierce). That's kind of what I've been saying in the Knicks thread for a while now. All of this criticism about Melo, it was the same thing year in and year out for those two guys every single season. Garnett got it way worse than Melo did actually. At the end of the day, basketball is a team game and the right teammates are sometimes all you need.

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Matt39

Matt39

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Oh what the hell does Gregg Popovich know anyways.

Gun to head? 3rd behind Russell and Kareem. Definitely ahead of Wilt and Dream. If I needed Shaq or Duncan for one game, obviously Shaq in his prime. But as a player and for a career I think you'd have to give the nod to Duncan. The thing about Shaq, a lot of people forget that for quite a while Robinson and Hakeem used to beat the living sh*t out of him all up and down the court. No one at any point in his career has owned Duncan. Even during his early years. Not to mention he's one of two players in history that actually could handle Shaq in his prime, Wallace being the other.

I can't even hate too much those playoff performances. The next best guy on the court with him was Terrell Brandon and later on Troy Murphy. All of a sudden you put him next to Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and the guy turns into a beast in the playoffs. (Ditto for Pierce). That's kind of what I've been saying in the Knicks thread for a while now. All of this criticism about Melo, it was the same thing year in and year out for those two guys every single season. Garnett got it way worse than Melo did actually. At the end of the day, basketball is a team game and the right teammates are sometimes all you need.

No Cassell mention? Nor I gotta a family to feed?

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Matt39

Matt39

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Also if we're knocking Garnett for years of struggling in the playoffs, you have to do the same with Malone; who shrunk like a bitch in the Finals when him winning the MVP pissed Jordan off.

Agreed. But at the same time, Mailman was A LOT better than Barkleys fat a$$. I hate that debate so I hope no one is going to come in here and say Chuck was better than Malone.

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RutgersJetFan

RutgersJetFan

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Agreed. But at the same time, Mailman was A LOT better than Barkleys fat a$$. I hate that debate so I hope no one is going to come in here and say Chuck was better than Malone.

Malone hands down was better and more complete, but Barkley was more a hybrid guy and probably crashed the boards better on the offensive end, also developed that wicked 3-point shot as his career went on. He's the second toughest player of that generation after Oakley. If the guy had a better work ethic he probably would have at least won a championship.

The thing about Barkley is he had this crazy way of making space for himself in half-court ball that someone at that height shouldn't have had. He was just so tough and wide that he made it happen. He might be the most unique player the league's ever seen after Magic.

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Matt39

Matt39

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Malone hands down was better and more complete, but Barkley was more a hybrid guy and probably crashed the boards better on the offensive end, also developed that wicked 3-point shot as his career went on. He's the second toughest player of that generation after Oakley. If the guy had a better work ethic he probably would have at least won a championship.

The thing about Barkley is he had this crazy way of making space for himself in half-court ball that someone at that height shouldn't have had. He was just so tough and wide that he made it happen. He might be the most unique player the league's ever seen after Magic.

I had a 15 minute conversation with a guy at the bar tonight about Oak's elbow/wing jumper.

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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Oh what the hell does Gregg Popovich know anyways.

Gun to head? 3rd behind Russell and Kareem. Definitely ahead of Wilt and Dream. If I needed Shaq or Duncan for one game, obviously Shaq in his prime. But as a player and for a career I think you'd have to give the nod to Duncan. The thing about Shaq, a lot of people forget that for quite a while Robinson and Hakeem used to beat the living sh*t out of him all up and down the court. No one at any point in his career has owned Duncan. Even during his early years. Not to mention he's one of two players in history that actually could handle Shaq in his prime, Wallace being the other.

Pop seems like such a character. I got a good chuckle out of that story the article mentioned where a TV reporter asked him how long a certain player would be out with an injury and he responds "how the hell should i know, it only happened a few damned minutes ago" only to then call back the reporter and laughingly tell him if he's going to storm off at least flip him the bird.

As far as Wilt and Russell go, it's hard for me to really give any opinion as I wasn't able to watch them play. However, a lot of what I have read about the pace of play, calling timeouts and fouling has really detracted from the mystique that Wilt and his 100 game always had in my eyes. Playing in today's game, I would imagine his numbers would be similar to a KG.

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RutgersJetFan

RutgersJetFan

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Pop seems like such a character. I got a good chuckle out of that story the article mentioned where a TV reporter asked him how long a certain player would be out with an injury and he responds "how the hell should i know, it only happened a few damned minutes ago" only to then call back the reporter and laughingly tell him if he's going to storm off at least flip him the bird.

As far as Wilt and Russell go, it's hard for me to really give any opinion as I wasn't able to watch them play. However, a lot of what I have read about the pace of play, calling timeouts and fouling has really detracted from the mystique that Wilt and his 100 game always had in my eyes. Playing in today's game, I would imagine his numbers would be similar to a KG.

Wilt was incredible but so many of those numbers of his are bloated because of the era he played in. Russell unfortunately suffers an adverse effect. He's basically the Deacon Jones of basketball. If they tracked blocks it wouldn't even be up for debate even for people who didn't see him play live because he probably averaged over 10 a game. Wilt played with enough HOF'ers to the point where the ring disparity between him and Russell is completely devoid of any excuses. Not to mention he was 50 times the natural athlete than Russell was which makes it worse.

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Blackout

Blackout

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Nah. That's just now. Switching back and forth throughout a career between the two doesn't necessitate it, otherwise you really should be saying the same thing about Garnett. Even Barkley's been saying for years that he's the greatest PF of all-time. All of his All-Star appearances were at PF. Just because he guarded Shaq doesn't mean he was a center. He saw time at center sure, but so have plenty of 4's. Including Garnett who's seen a ton of time at the 5. Stat too. Still a 4.

Garnett can probably be inserted anywhere between 2 and 6 depending on what you're looking for. Bob Pettit probably doesn't deserve to be kicked down to 9, but I'm a Knicks homer and would take Dave D over him. Guy was Rodman before Rodman ever existed.

1. Duncan

2. Malone

3. Barkley

4. Garnett

5. McHale

6. Dirk

7. Debusschere

8. Hayes

9. Pettit

10. Rodman

i hate to say this but Barkley is not better than KG or McHale

and Barkley has been my favorite player since i was 7 years old, no lie!

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