Possibilities for Passing Game in Sparano's Offense

[SenorGato]

I think everyone wants better QB'ing.

To join the 21st century NFL, to get over the "every OC sucks" crap fans do, and to be a legitimately competitive franchise for the long term the Jets need better QB play.

[RutgersJetFan]

Coaching is useless isn't agreeing with me, it's actually just ignoring what I'm saying. It was pretty fun to type that post out. I really had to DIG DOWN DEEP within myself to get it out.

So nothing on what he brings btw? Is it a NEW ATTITUDE and IDENTITY?

I have no clue what he brings. Wasn't a fan of the hire at all. Knew the second they got him that it meant we were holding on to Sanchez with more ground and pound bullsh*t.

[slats]

To join the 21st century NFL, to get over the "every OC sucks" crap fans do, and to be a legitimately competitive franchise for the long term the Jets need better QB play.

The century doesn't matter, an OC that doesn't suck will tailor his offense to the players he has, and put them in the best position to succeed.

[flgreen]

Chad Henne approves of this article.

yeah

It's a vision that keeps bugging me. Henne throwing to a spot during a blitz. No one is there except a DB. Very troubling

[slats]

I have no clue what he brings. Wasn't a fan of the hire at all. Knew the second they got him that it meant we were holding on to Sanchez with more ground and pound bullsh*t.

If the guy brings nothing but discipline, it will be a plus. If the Jets aren't shooting themselves in the foot, turning 3rd & 2 into 3rd & 7 without even getting the snap off, it will be a welcome change. The players didn't respect Schottenheimer, and the lack of discipline and sloppiness made its way onto the field. Sparano seems to have their attention.

[flgreen]

If the guy brings nothing but discipline, it will be a plus. If the Jets aren't shooting themselves in the foot, turning 3rd & 2 into 3rd & 7 without even getting the snap off, it will be a welcome change. The players didn't respect Schottenheimer, and the lack of discipline and sloppiness made its way onto the field. Sparano seems to have their attention.

For now this is what I'm buying into. And his ground and pound does seem to fit Rex's style. 3rd and 2 is a lot more desirable then 3rd and 7.

For this to work though the OL is going to have to be very good in the running game. You have to be able to run at a lot of 3rd and 2's with a great deal of confidence that you will cover it. If not you get a lot of 3 & outs

[RutgersJetFan]

If the guy brings nothing but discipline, it will be a plus. If the Jets aren't shooting themselves in the foot, turning 3rd & 2 into 3rd & 7 without even getting the snap off, it will be a welcome change. The players didn't respect Schottenheimer, and the lack of discipline and sloppiness made its way onto the field. Sparano seems to have their attention.

Completely agree. With Sanchez under center our season hinges on turnovers, Miami's offense wasn't exactly TO'less under him though, so I'm taking a wait and see approach. I think if he can mitigate the total to less than 15 (like he did with Pennington), we'll win 11-12 games. I think he's much better suited to let the defense take care of games on most weeks.

[SenorGato]

The century doesn't matter, an OC that doesn't suck will tailor his offense to the players he has, and put them in the best position to succeed.

Yes, that's a nice cliche and I can't imagine there's an OC out there who would disagree with that or doesn't try to do that. In 2011 the Jets tried to join the 21st century, found out their QB is still pretty bad, so they went out and got an OC and backup QB from the 50's. In 2010, they did exactly what their personel (including a bad QB) calls for. I think this new offense will use 2010 as a base and hope Sanchez can bring more.

Edit: Very agreed that turnovers are the key.

[flgreen]

Completely agree. With Sanchez under center our season hinges on turnovers, Miami's offense wasn't exactly TO'less under him though, so I'm taking a wait and see approach. I think if he can mitigate the total to less than 15 (like he did with Pennington), we'll win 11-12 games. I think he's much better suited to let the defense take care of games on most weeks.

Agree 100%

The two keys to this O is going to be the OL, belting the D off the LOS in the running game, and Sanchez not turning the ball over. Picks or fumbles.

This O is going to drive a lot of people crazy. Most drives are going to be long, and end in FG's. One of the things the Jets have (I hope) is a potential good, lighting fast WR core. Maybe once a game, they should have to potential to spring one of those 4.3 guys for a long strike TD. Hopefully they will be good again in the Red Zone because of the tall, fast athletic WR's.

Think because of that the Jets will score more points per game then Miami did. The Defense should be outstanding. With what I hope is going to be a very strong pass rush there should be more turn overs.

I agree 11-12 wins.

The problem is in order for the Jets to really make a Super Bowl push, Sanchez has to play top shelf in the play offs against good D's. He's done it before, all they need is one good run from him

[T0mShane]

Yes, that's a nice cliche and I can't imagine there's an OC out there who would disagree with that or doesn't try to do that. In 2011 the Jets tried to join the 21st century, found out their QB is still pretty bad, so they went out and got an OC and backup QB from the 50's. If that gets the job done then great.

I still think it will mostly be on the shoulders of a 4th year QB and his immature band of misfit pass catchers.

Edit: Very agreed that turnovers are the key.

Let's be real, G. Let's keep it real. If Sparano finds a way to compleeeeeeetely bury Sanchez inside the cocoon of a running game and de-emphasize his impact on the outcome of games, he'll succeed. Whether we think Schottenheimer was good or bad, there's no denying that his great downfall was asking Sanchez to be the frontman for a fairly complex pa$$ing offense that he just couldn't handle.

Sparano is here solely to ensure that Sanchez's stats look like this every week: 13 for 19, 154 yards, 1 TD 0 INT.

[T0mShane]

Pa$$ing.

[T0mShane]

No sh*t? Pa$$ing.

[T0mShane]

Pas.sing.

[flgreen]

Let's be real, G. Let's keep it real. If Sparano finds a way to compleeeeeeetely bury Sanchez inside the cocoon of a running game and de-emphasize his impact on the outcome of games, he'll succeed. Whether we think Schottenheimer was good or bad, there's no denying that his great downfall was asking Sanchez to be the frontman for a fairly complex pa$$ing offense that he just couldn't handle.

Sparano is here solely to ensure that Sanchez's stats look like this every week: 13 for 19, 154 yards, 1 TD 0 INT.

If that is the stats the Jets will win a lot of football games with this D

I'm thinking with the WR core, if all goes well, it will look a bit more like this 18-25 230 2TD's and 0 int. That's if Sanchez can make the next step.

[SenorGato]

Let's be real, G. Let's keep it real. If Sparano finds a way to compleeeeeeetely bury Sanchez inside the cocoon of a running game and de-emphasize his impact on the outcome of games, he'll succeed. Whether we think Schottenheimer was good or bad, there's no denying that his great downfall was asking Sanchez to be the frontman for a fairly complex pa$$ing offense that he just couldn't handle.

Sparano is here solely to ensure that Sanchez's stats look like this every week: 13 for 19, 154 yards, 1 TD 0 INT.

Yeah, I get that the hope for Sanchez is 2011 Alex Smith. I still like him enough to say he can be a more explosive offensive player than that. He's also younger, healthier, and more physically gifted than Smith is at this point in his career.

Basically, I'm being greedy and want more.

[JustInFudge]

“What we want to try to do is put ourselves in the best play all the time,” Sparano said. “We’ve got to give them the flexibility to be able to play and be able to win in some of these situations.”

This was my favorite quote.

Does that mean TD's every play???

Woooohooo!!!

[Bugg]

The NFLN last night showed the 1986 Jets/Browns debacle. And what you saw was 2 teams who didn't want to throw the ball despite good if cold conditions. They interviewed Kosar, Marty, Walton, Russell Carter,Joe Fields and Gastineau among others.

The things that stay with you; Walton was scared to death to throw it despite Al Toon getting behind the Browns all day. And Marty (and Cowher) being scared to death to pass until they had no choice. Kosar said emphatically in so many words he hated Ol'Man Schitty and the run/run/pass nonsense. "Take off the dress and call a pass on 1st down". Ol'Man Schitty still looks and sounds like a total fool.Understand; as awful as we all think Brian Schitty was, what the Jets and Sparano are saying they want to do is little different except the play calls will be simplified and the pointless motion mostly gone.

There is nothing we have seen about Sanchez to date to recommend him as even an adequate NFL pa$$er.

Point being; winning demands pa$$ing effectively. It did in 1986 i does now. I would love to see some Woody Hayes offense work here, but it's not likely, it's easily defensed and since at least 2001 no run first team has won doing so. You margin for error is practically nothing. We either have a lot of dishonesty coming from our CS because they know ll this or they are delusional and as a fallback want to keep their jobs by making Sanchez the fall guy when it goes to hell.

[Matt39]

The NFLN last night showed the 1986 Jets/Browns debacle. And what you saw was 2 teams who didn't want to throw the ball despite good if cold conditions. They interviewed Kosar, Marty, Walton, Russell Carter,Joe Fields and Gastineau among others.

The things that stay with you; Walton was scared to death to throw it despite Al Toon getting behind the Browns all day. And Marty (and Cowher) being scared to death to pass until they had no choice. Kosar said emphatically in so many words he hated Ol'Man Schitty and the run/run/pass nonsense. "Take off the dress and call a pass on 1st down". Ol'Man Schitty still looks and sounds like a total fool.Understand; as awful as we all think Brian Schitty was, what the Jets and Sparano are saying they want to do is little different except the play calls will be simplified and the pointless motion mostly gone.

There is nothing we have seen about Sanchez to date to recommend him as even an adequate NFL pa$$er.

Point being; winning demands pa$$ing effectively. It did in 1986 i does now. I would love to see some Woody Hayes offense work here, but it's not likely, it's easily defensed and since at least 2001 no run first team has won doing so. You margin for error is practically nothing. We either have a lot of dishonesty coming from our CS because they know ll this or they are delusional and as a fallback want to keep their jobs by making Sanchez the fall guy when it goes to hell.

I watched that as well. I was only 3 when that game happened so I had never really seen it in full. The Gastineua penalty sucked, but it didnt end the game. The Jets just totally choked.

[dbatesman]

No sh*t? Pa$$ing.

This happened to Jason in the Finals thread. I don't get it either.

[Joe Jets fan]

Well here is the thing, we get to find out if Sanchez just sucks or was it the system and lack of WR's.

kind of the chicken or the egg.

but we will get a answer

[Jet-T's]

Well, now that the starting QB has been well discussed, maybe the backup QB should get a peak?

Turnovers have NEVER been a problem for Tebow.

In this kind of run heavy offense at UF, 88 TD passes to just 16 Ints, for a 5.5 to 1 Ratio.

As a Bronco with his Top 2 WR from 2010 traded away and the 1st Rnd starting RB injured out:

Tebow went 8-5 with a playoff win.

Two seasons as a cold off the bench Bronco - 17 TD's to 9 Ints, 12 Rushing TD's to just 6 lost possession fumbles.

29 TD's to 15 Total Turnovers.

So Tebow's comp % is necessarily a little bit lower, (only 7 more incompletion per 100 passes than Mark).

And that is more than made up for imo by Tim's T-O Ratio.

With the run heavy Spread/Option offense at UF, Tebow's Senior UF class went 48-7 with 2 NC's.

That's in an era where the SEC has won 6 Consecutive BCS-NC's.

In the Meyer S/O offense, the QB has to read the D before the snap, and then again after the snap, to direct the actual flow of the play.

And Tim excelled at doing both reads as the ONLY 3X Heisman Finalist, and with 145 TD's, (88+57).

As to the TE position, Tebow helped send TE Aaron Hernandez to the Pats as an early departure Jr.

Keller should have an inside shuttle pass incorporated into his resume imo.

Tebow introduced about a dozen of those Read/Option plays to the Bronco OC McCoy and they went from #25 in the NFL in rushing to #1 in the NFL rushing.

McCoy admitted to having never run those types of plays in his coaching career, but somehow the media-morons gave HBC (defense minded) Fox the credit for the changes in the Bronco rushing offense.

WR's not only need to be able to run good hot-read routes and catch the damn ball, but they also need to be able to do down field blocking on the option plays.

And on those types of plays, the QB had better be able to withstand the occasional big hit.

So go ahead and start Mark and let's see what develops.

"Sparano often challenged his players to see plays from another spot on the field. He would call on a receiver

to line up at quarterback, or a quarterback at receiver, and give him a mock situation to walk through."

To that point there's this:

"Denver coaches and executives in the Bronco's room at the draft combine in 2010 were stunned by Tim's ability to not only break down his own offense at the University of Florida (A 3" thick book of Spread/Option plays) but theirs too,,, and San Diego’s,,, and New England’s.

The Denver coaches said they had never seen a college quarterback do such a thing."

Tebow also was awarded the Academic Heisman while at UF.

No player (Gator or Bronco) spent as much time studying as Tim did either. When he finally left the Broncos practice facility to go home at night, Tebow carried with him stacks of DVDs of different offenses that he would watch over and over, often calling his coaches several times at night to ask about things he noticed on the screen. He worked for hours before and during practice on his footwork, based on the Elway (flawed imo) belief that if Tim had the proper balance he would make more accurate throws. I guess that's better than El-dimway admitting his own incompetence in trading away the Top 2 WR's from 2010.“Tim made great strides both mentally and physically,” Broncos QB coach Adam Gase said two days after the season. “You could actually see it from game to game. You would say, ‘Oh, there’s a little improvement." Those who have worked with Tebow say he is really obsessed with one thing: getting better.

Remember Saint John El' Dim-way's 'public' complaint about Tebow's Completion % during Tim's 2011 playoff season?

Elway's first start as a Bronco, he was 1 of 8 passing, 12.5%.

Tebow's first start as a Bronco, he was 8 of 16, 138 yds, 1 TD, 0 Int's.

Elway's first season as a Bronco gave him a QB Pass Efficiency Rating of 54.9.

Tebow's first season as a Bronco gave him a QB Pass Efficiency Rating of 82.1.

(Elway's comp % and T-O Ratio sucked, so much for his 'fair' crit on Tim)

In his 4th season Mark has a new OC with a new offense.

In his 3rd cold off the bench backup season Tim has his third HBC and he's now with a different team.

"The general idea is that routes are adjusted to allow receivers to run into voids vacated by blitzing defenders and into the quarterback’s vision. Now included in the Jets’ lexicon is the “bandit,” usually a hot receiver on the weak side."

A role that WR/RB Percy Harvin played at UF with Tebow. They excuted it so well that both were 1st round picks to the NFL. Put Hill in the 'Bandit' spot.

Now, go right ahead and flame away at me and my 'football' opinions.

[Sperm Edwards]

Someday, Sparano will be run out of town for his boring, grind it out offense, but right now he's a good fit.

Schottenheimer's offense had too many reads and options. Of course Sparano will have hot reads, but there's no reason for alternate patterns for every receiver. When players are thinking too much, they move slower. There should be little doubt that this was a factor in sacks taken, and throws forced - and obviously those plays where the QB and receiver obviously didn't agree on where the ball was supposed to go.

People want to lay the blame on Sanchez, and that's fine, but you have to work with what you have - and that's Sanchez. No one likes the sound of "dumbing down" the offense, but the fact is that this has already worked for this QB. When they played red light, green light, 1 2 3, Sanchez' int rate dropped below 2 (lower than any season in Eli Manning's career, fwiw). Fvck Gary Myers, but Sanchez is immature. When he makes mistakes, he sulks. Putting him in a position that limits his mistakes will increase his confidence, and that should result in better QB'ing.

I think everyone wants better QB'ing.

Sparano’s offense has a heavy emphasis on sight adjustments and hot routes — in which a receiver’s route can be adjusted in response to a blitzing defense — and it also includes a variety of tags and option routes that allow receivers to find open spaces against the coverage.

These are widespread concepts in the NFL, and they existed on some level in Schottenheimer’s system, too. But as receiver Santonio Holmes put it, “We have more than we did last year, let’s just say that.”

I didn't see anything that says only 1 receiver (or 2) per play will be allowed to adjust his route. If this was a huge problem for Sanchez last year it will be worse this year because Holmes said we're going to have more of it not less than we did with BS.

Talk me off the ledge.

[T0mShane]

Talk me off the ledge.

Because Eli Manning.

[Jet-T's]

Talk me off the ledge.

Step back, breath deep, and relax,,,, at least to start with.

The 2012 Jets are WAY better off now.

Depth across the board at ever position, including 3 deep with some pretty darn good QB's imoho.

Enough play makers to score and a good enough defense to get the wins if they all play as a team and hang together.

Better 'team' morale never hurts. -- No worries mates...

[Sperm Edwards]

Because Eli Manning.

I hate you.

[SenorGato]

Because Drew Brees?

[slats]

I didn't see anything that says only 1 receiver (or 2) per play will be allowed to adjust his route. If this was a huge problem for Sanchez last year it will be worse this year because Holmes said we're going to have more of it not less than we did with BS.

Talk me off the ledge.

I have nothing.

[Sperm Edwards]

I have nothing.

I'll bet this is half the reason he stares down his receivers. The other half of the reason is because he's dumb as dirt and doesn't realize how everyone on the field sees him doing it.

[Sperm Edwards]

Because Drew Brees?

See my reply to Shane.

[SenorGato]

Because Rich Gannon?

[Matt39]

yeah, but he's good at play action

[CTM]

Passing game will work if the running game works.. SAnchez, like almost any NFL QB, can be very effective when the defense is keying on the run.

[HDKostempski]

Passing game will work if the running game works.. SAnchez, like almost any NFL QB, can be very effective when the defense is keying on the run.

This is 2012 not 1982. Teams pass to get a lead and then run to keep it ... except for teams like GB or NE that barely have running games. Even successful teams that run alot like the Niners and Ravens, have good passing games, although they don't put up the big passing #s like some other teams. The Niners demonstrated their passing prowess against the Gnats in the NFCCG, with Alex Smith matching Eli pass for pass into OT. Without the ST booboos, it probably would have been the Niners vs the Pats.

[CTM]

This is 2012 not 1982. Teams pass to get a lead and then run to keep it ... except for teams like GB or NE that barely have running games. Even successful teams that run alot like the Niners and Ravens, have good passing games, although they don't put up the big passing #s like some other teams. The Niners demonstrated their passing prowess against the Gnats in the NFCCG, with Alex Smith matching Eli pass for pass into OT. Without the ST booboos, it probably would have been the Niners vs the Pats.

Hey I agree with you, just saying that's the plan here. It worked in 2009 when Shonn Greene was running, Sanchez was successful cause defenses were barely defending the pass... Same thing w/Tebow against Pitts last year. It's not the ideal strategy, but it can work if you can really run the ball

[Jet-T's]

Passing game will work if the running game works.. SAnchez, like almost any NFL QB, can be very effective when the defense is keying on the run.

"Passing game will work if the running game works.. SAnchez, like almost any NFL QB, can be very effective when the defense is keying on the run."

Tebow starts and the donkeys running game goes from #25 in the NFL to #1 in the NFL in 2011.

In only 16 starts, plus 13 backup plays in 2010 and 10 backup plays in game 5 of 2011, Tebow's TD to T-O Ratio is a sterling 2 to 1, 32 TD's to just 16 Turnovers.

Tim's 2011 'cold off the bench' Passing with both Lloyd and Gaffney gone/traded still yielded 12 TD's to just 6 Ints.

With a good 'TEAM' and competent coaches to work with, Tebow can get the job done,,,, if Mark doesn't.....