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2016 WS Champions/Cubs Thread


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Just now, dbatesman said:

People are literally lighting fireworks in the street up here. Not shooting them up into the sky from the street, just detonating them right there on the street.

Welp, I'd say that sums up the Northside about as well as I've ever seen.

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Congrats to Troll and NJ.  Real fans even back during the tough times.  Hoping the Cubs win the WS for you guys. 

Ironically enough, in 1997, I was a 13 year old Indians fan. It wasn't my first baseball heartbreak. That would be whenever Albert Belle signed with the White Sox. That son of a bitch. It's tough to r

Thanks Rob - it was a phenomenal season. I think it gave  - truth be told - my favorite sport a shot in the arm too which just adds to the special nature of what happened here. I was at the first

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The Troll's only been a fan since 1998, when he was only 13? Looks like you qualify as #NotaRealFan! That's when I hopped on the bandwagon, Kerry Wood's 20 K game was it for me. Seeing this franchise, a team in - at worst - the third largest market, lag behind broke clubs in the draft, player development, and player evaluation for so long was horrendous. They basically ignored the analytics up until hiring Epstein even though the Yankees, a franchise that should be more of a peer than they've been, and Cardinals relied heavily on them to become the alpha franchises in the two leagues decades ago and the 2000s made in depth baseball stats mainstream. Everything that is happening now could have happened in the 2000s if the franchise chose to join the 21st century and caught up with modern FO management. Instead they lagged behind, shrunk the FO, shrunk the scouting department, hired one guy in the late 2000s to crunch numbers and thought that was major progress....We got moves like Juan Pierre to hit leadoff but passed on Carlos Beltran, the near complete collapse of the pitching depth the org thought would turn things around, and no star hitter developed in house since the 80s...The turnaround is amazing. Now they pretty much lead the world in player development with more scouts than everyone, more coaches, and an absolutely loaded FO. The on field product is the best in baenall with room to grow offensively, largely developed in house. The money is about to pile up to where they can spend with teams like the Dodgers and Yankees. Basically, they are lined up to be this century what the Yankees were to the MLB in the last century like I've been saying all year and it feels gooooood. It feels good to finally root for an organization that is smart, good at executing, and is fully aware that they are both of those things. 

 

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5 hours ago, The Troll said:

Ironically enough, in 1997, I was a 13 year old Indians fan. It wasn't my first baseball heartbreak. That would be whenever Albert Belle signed with the White Sox. That son of a bitch. It's tough to root for a team that you only get to watch in the playoffs, especially when all your favorite players are leaving. That led to the fateful day I flipped over to WGN. June 13, 1998. The Cubs beat the Phillies 10-8. Sammy Sosa hit a two run homer and Rod Beck pitched the 9th and I suddenly had two new favorite players and a new favorite team. That began a roller coaster ride for the next 18 plus years, occasionally bringing me near the summit, but without fail, crashing back down without ever reaching it. McGwire winning the home run chase. Brant ******* Brown. 2003. Having the two best young arms in baseball flame out when they should have been in their prime. The 07 and 08 teams that didn't bother showing up to the postseason. Corey Patterson. Felix Pie. Josh Vitters. The complete inability of this franchise to develop any offensive talent under Jim Hendry. The hiring of the savior, Theo Epstein. The years of losing knowing that it all had a purpose. Trading for Rizzo and Russell, signing Lester, developing the best group of young offensive talent since my formerly beloved mid-90's Indians.

Game seven was a perfect encapsulation of everything I've felt in the two decades I've bled blue. I felt these things tonight. All of them.

Even though I've only been a fan for a small fraction of the drought, I carried the weight of 108 years on back, just like carrying the Jets 50 years. I can honestly say that weight is finally gone. Take a load off, Fannie. The Chicago Cubs are the champions of the world.


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Congrats. Great way to win your first, and I hope the memories last a lifetime for you. Savor it, as nothing is guaranteed in the future. Classic series and great for the sport

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1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Right? 108, but no way is this trash as bad as that trash. No. Way.

Pretty much...One has been one of the all around best young players of this decade, including one of the handful best defensive players of the decade (going into last year was the highest rated defender in the league this decade according to The Fielding Bible and UZR). The other has been an above average regular 3 times in 12 years, never in consecutive seasons and one of the 3 was a partial season. One owns a career .346 OBP with an 18% K rate in an era where the league OBPs something like .316 with a 21% K rate, the other owns a career .303 OBP with ~half his career spent playing when the league had a ~.330 OBP and less swing and miss. One has a career .761 OPS during an era where the league has a ~.715 OPS, the other has a .719 OPS taking nearly 3000 PAs when the league averaged close to .740. Whereas one is bad at baseball on a consistent basis, the other had a bad 2016 at the plate while overall still being more valuable than a typical Francouer season thanks to his defense. 

It's just a dumb, poorly thought out, even more poorly argued comparison that fits the pattern of what the average JN Mets fan delivered to this thread for some six months.

I can't brush it off because:

Someone-is-wrong-on-internet.png

 

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15 minutes ago, JiF said:

Oh yeah, one more thing.  While I'm happy for Cubs fans, I literally never want to hear a Chicago sports fan complain ever again.

Yup. And they're set up to be competitive and put runs on for the next few years, but it's hard to make it back and repeat because the seasons are so long, baseball injuries are typically from overuse, and free agency. Theo's ultimate undoing in Boston was meddling owners and boredom after breaking one curse. I don't think he has the former in Chicago but he could get the latter. Maybe he'll want to go somewhere to win a title where he doesn't get to spend ungodly gobs of money in order to win. That'd be his next challenge, I think. 

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It should be left unsaid, but I walk away tremendously impressed with the analysis of John Smoltz during this season. He was insightful, prepared, and was not afraid to "first guess" decisions and predict how each manager my approach certain situations. Many color guys do not have the guts to do that, out of fear of being proven wrong.

I had not listed to Smoltz a lot before this Series, but I walk away impressed with his knowledge and candor.

 

 

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It should be left unsaid, but I walk away tremendously impressed with the analysis of John Smoltz during this season. He was insightful, prepared, and was not afraid to "first guess" decisions and predict how each manager my approach certain situations. Many color guys do not have the guts to do that, out of fear of being proven wrong.
I had not listed to Smoltz a lot before this Series, but I walk away impressed with his knowledge and candor.
 
 


I used to despise Joe Buck. The Cardinal association, his smugness, and monotone announcing style. What no one ever seems to acknowledge is that in recent years, Buck has become a tremendous announcer. Where hearing his voice once inspired me to groan, it now sounds like October baseball and America's Game of the Week.


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12 minutes ago, The Troll said:

 


I used to despise Joe Buck. The Cardinal association, his smugness, and monotone announcing style. What no one ever seems to acknowledge is that in recent years, Buck has become a tremendous announcer. Where hearing his voice once inspired me to groan, it now sounds like October baseball and America's Game of the Week.


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Agree. He has gotten better. There is still a smugness that exists (like what McCarver became), but it seems like he is trying.

His interview series "Undeniable" is a very good watch, and he is actually a decent interviewer.

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7 hours ago, The Troll said:

Ironically enough, in 1997, I was a 13 year old Indians fan. It wasn't my first baseball heartbreak. That would be whenever Albert Belle signed with the White Sox. That son of a bitch. It's tough to root for a team that you only get to watch in the playoffs, especially when all your favorite players are leaving. That led to the fateful day I flipped over to WGN. June 13, 1998. The Cubs beat the Phillies 10-8. Sammy Sosa hit a two run homer and Rod Beck pitched the 9th and I suddenly had two new favorite players and a new favorite team. That began a roller coaster ride for the next 18 plus years, occasionally bringing me near the summit, but without fail, crashing back down without ever reaching it. McGwire winning the home run chase. Brant ******* Brown. 2003. Having the two best young arms in baseball flame out when they should have been in their prime. The 07 and 08 teams that didn't bother showing up to the postseason. Corey Patterson. Felix Pie. Josh Vitters. The complete inability of this franchise to develop any offensive talent under Jim Hendry. The hiring of the savior, Theo Epstein. The years of losing knowing that it all had a purpose. Trading for Rizzo and Russell, signing Lester, developing the best group of young offensive talent since my formerly beloved mid-90's Indians.

Game seven was a perfect encapsulation of everything I've felt in the two decades I've bled blue. I felt these things tonight. All of them.

Even though I've only been a fan for a small fraction of the drought, I carried the weight of 108 years on back, just like carrying the Jets 50 years. I can honestly say that weight is finally gone. Take a load off, Fannie. The Chicago Cubs are the champions of the world.


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For some reason I thought you were way older. Good stuff regardless. Congrats bud! 👏

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29 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

It should be left unsaid, but I walk away tremendously impressed with the analysis of John Smoltz during this season. He was insightful, prepared, and was not afraid to "first guess" decisions and predict how each manager my approach certain situations. Many color guys do not have the guts to do that, out of fear of being proven wrong.

I had not listed to Smoltz a lot before this Series, but I walk away impressed with his knowledge and candor.

 

 

He called the Baez bunt too. I thought he was insane when he said they'd try that. Go figure.

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7 hours ago, The Troll said:

Ironically enough, in 1997, I was a 13 year old Indians fan.

Even though I've only been a fan for a small fraction of the drought, I carried the weight of 108 years on back, just like carrying the Jets 50 years. I can honestly say that weight is finally gone. Take a load off, Fannie. The Chicago Cubs are the champions of the world.


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Not to take away from your enjoyment; but I'm curious how one can identify as a fan of multiple teams at various points in their lives. Especially two that are nowhere near each other in proximity. 

I can (marginally and barely) see a case being made for someone to flip from, say a cubs to white sox fan, or jets to giants...something along those lines where it's at least the same place where that person may have grown up or associated with. But Cleveland to Chicago....what?

Also, don't understand how you can carry the weight of 108 years when you were a fan of a completely different team for a portion of your life. I can see second or third generation cubs fans that carry that weight, but....what?

Hell, I've been only a Jets fan my whole life, and even I don't feel the burden of anything except the 23 years that I've been a fan. 

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Not to take away from your enjoyment; but I'm curious how one can identify as a fan of multiple teams at various points in their lives. Especially two that are nowhere near each other in proximity. 
I can (marginally and barely) see a case being made for someone to flip from, say a cubs to white sox fan, or jets to giants...something along those lines where it's at least the same place where that person may have grown up or associated with. But Cleveland to Chicago....what?
Also, don't understand how you can carry the weight of 108 years when you were a fan of a completely different team for a portion of your life. I can see second or third generation cubs fans that carry that weight, but....what?
Hell, I've been only a Jets fan my whole life, and even I don't feel the burden of anything except the 23 years that I've been a fan. 


There's a pretty simple answer there: not everyone lives near a thriving metropolis. I live in Louisiana, four hours from New Orleans, two from Houston. The local FOX affiliate showed Cowboys games instead of the Saints.

So, I became a fan of what team I enjoyed watching the most and while that changed a lot when I was a kid, my roulette wheel landed on Jets/Cubs long ago.


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3 minutes ago, The Troll said:

 


There's a pretty simple answer there: not everyone lives near a thriving metropolis. I live in Louisiana, four hours from New Orleans, two from Houston. The local FOX affiliate showed Cowboys games instead of the Saints.

So, I became a fan of what team I enjoyed watching the most and while that changed a lot when I was a kid, my roulette wheel landed on Jets/Cubs long ago.


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Normally I would prod you on that because that categorically does not answer either of my questions....but hey, your most recent team just won the series and 108 years is lifted from your shoulders, so congrats! No ill will here.

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14 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I can (marginally and barely) see a case being made for someone to flip from, say a cubs to white sox fan...

Not for nothing, but this would never happen. I don't think many really grasp the vitriol between these two fanbases outside the city. It's not just about baseball like it is with Mets/Yanks. It's a genuine hatred that is also heavily rooted in things like race and politics too, way more so than A's/Giants simply due to some of the horrific history that geography has played here.

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^^^ This The Troll guy sounds like just another bandwagon hopping millenial to me. 

----

The thing I'll give the booth was that McCarver was gone. Buck and McCarver would have been insufferable. As it is, these guys were forgettable and easy to ignore thanks to the action. 

----

The ****in' man right here:

imagejpeg

 

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Normally I would prod you on that because that categorically does not answer either of my questions....but hey, your most recent team just won the series and 108 years is lifted from your shoulders, so congrats! No ill will here.


How did that not answer your question? You asked how I could be a fan of two separate franchises that are not in geographical proximity. Because I live in the middle of nowhere is not a sufficient answer for you?

As for 108 years lifted from my shoulders, you're damn right, I do feel that. Even though I've only been along for part of the ride, I still feel like it's just never going to happen. It hasn't happened yet in many people's lifetimes, why would it happen in mine? Not to mention the franchise being a punchline for futility and the whole "lovable losers" shtick.


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18 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Not for nothing, but this would never happen. I don't think many really grasp the vitriol between these two fanbases outside the city. It's not just about baseball like it is with Mets/Yanks. It's a genuine hatred that is also heavily rooted in things like race and politics too, way more so than A's/Giants simply due to some of the horrific history that geography has played here.

That struck me more than anything else, as I became familiar with the Chicagoland fan base.

I have a client who is a White Sx fan, and he told me as his son was 45 years old, and first collecting baseball cards, he would take them to his dad to show him new cards that he got. He told me he would take the Cub cards, and in front of his kid, spit on them and tear them up at the same time.

Pretty extreme, but cool at the same time.

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11 minutes ago, The Troll said:

 


How did that not answer your question? You asked how I could be a fan of two separate franchises that are not in geographical proximity. Because I live in the middle of nowhere is not a sufficient answer for you?

As for 108 years lifted from my shoulders, you're damn right, I do feel that. Even though I've only been along for part of the ride, I still feel like it's just never going to happen. It hasn't happened yet in many people's lifetimes, why would it happen in mine? Not to mention the franchise being a punchline for futility and the whole "lovable losers" shtick.


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I said it initially, I'll say it again. You don't need to answer if you don't want to. Enjoy the win.

However, if you really want to keep going, I'll play. Your answer provided the response to, "how are you a fan of THAT team, when you're not from there". That's fine. I have cousins in bumble**** South Carolina; brothers actually. One is a Mavs fan, one is a Raiders fan, and both are USC Gamecock fans. I get that when you're not from a place with a major team, you latch on to what you want.

My question was how that changed. I just don't understand how you can be a fanatic - going through the highs if there are any, and dreadful lows of which there are plenty; including something like the '90s Indians, and then just say, 'well, I'm done. I think I'll move on to another team, and not just that, but as a teenager, I'll take over their burden of 108 years too."

Again, it's clear from this thread that at least for the past 3-4 years, you've been a loyal cubs fan. So good on you. Enjoy the win. I'm not trying to take away from it....I'm just asking because I don't understand. 

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Back to the game...that was legit one for the ages. Every single person on my team is struggling this AM, because no one could turn it off last night.

As just a baseball fan with no pull in the series, I was wired for almost an hour after even the final out. Awesome, awesome series culminating in an incredible game 7.

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28 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Not for nothing, but this would never happen. I don't think many really grasp the vitriol between these two fanbases outside the city. It's not just about baseball like it is with Mets/Yanks. It's a genuine hatred that is also heavily rooted in things like race and politics too, way more so than A's/Giants simply due to some of the horrific history that geography has played here.

Goes back to Abraham Lincoln vs. Stephen A. Douglas, I would think.  Half of Illinois was split over slavery in the 1850s/early 1860s.

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