Quinton Coples Merged

[afosomf]

How many Super Bowls did the greatest guard to ever play in the NFL win?

Steve Hutchinson is right there with him.

There's a reason five DEs came off the board before DeCastro. Guard is simply not an impact position. Not worthy of the 16th pick in the draft.

same amount as marino

[slats]

ever ask yourself this question, coples after junior yr was a consensus top5 pick, why would so many teams pass on him, if he was truly a peppers/jpp type of player?

His entire program got blown up, and his stock fell accordingly. I don't know who's comparing him to JPP or Peppers, either. A very good DE is more valuable than an elite guard. If he's Shaun Ellis, he's a good pick.

[slats]

same amount as marino

The Pats went 100-91 with the greatest guard of all time, how does that compare to Marino's won-loss record.

(and never, ever make me defend Marino again)

[bitonti]

so neither is decastro, you are downplaying the importance of guard play.

if the Jets draft Decastro, we are still making Wayne Hunter threads. Bottom line I don't think a right guard, left guard or right tackle is a good use of a first round pick for these Jets. they already have the best interior lineman in the world in Mangold. They already have a 3x Pro Bowl LT in Brick. Brandon Moore made his first pro bowl last year. The OL isn't as bad as people say. It's actually among the better units in the league (as long as Mangold stays healthy).

[Matt39]

Rex looks like he has more confidence with the D picks...wants to promote his legacy as a defensive genius...so he stockpiles defensive players...similar to the way his Dad built a team...clearly on the O side he hopes...doesn't like to draft O linemen...and tries to get away with gimmicks...similar to how his Dad did with a very athletic Randall Cunningham...Buddy never paired Randall with either a legit #1 WR or RB...Buddy hoped for one or two big offensive plays plus a defensive score and they could win.

Unless Rex changes his way...I see a similar career path.

Good post. its very possible. It wouldn't surprise me if Rex had a chip on his shoulder about winning with a better defense than offense....especially in this era where there seems to be an attack on how defenses can play. The league is geared toward offense. That probably motivates Rex...which really isnt good.

[afosomf]

if the Jets draft Decastro, we are still making Wayne Hunter threads. Bottom line I don't think a right guard, left guard or right tackle is a good use of a first round pick for these Jets. they already have the best interior lineman in the world in Mangold. They already have a 3x Pro Bowl LT in Brick. Brandon Moore made his first pro bowl last year. The OL isn't as bad as people say. It's actually among the better units in the league (as long as Mangold stays healthy).

then why does running game suk so bad? besides not respecting who the qb is

[SenorGato]

It does if you pick right DL

from the short window of tape i have seem, coples is not a JPP clone, or a Chandler Jones , time will tell

Hmmm....I see.

Don't follow college closely, but I liked the pick. Build a dominant D-Line and the entire defense is good. The Ravens and Giants both have done it. Guards and RT's can be found. The QB is the real missing piece. Until that's fixed, an intimidating defensive line continues to keep this defense at the top of the league.

Have to figure that they saw that an elite OL did nothing to make the offense elite while the Giants and Packers have recently won SBs without that. Then looking at how the Jets win games and making sure that stays a strength...It just made sense. The OL prospects were all solid...Mike Adams, DeCastro, Schwartz, and Glenn were all really nice talents, but none go towards fixing what really ails the Jets' offense.

I'm hoping the DL being stacked with a couple of 6'5+ 305+ guys on it, I'm sure it will make it a little easier to find that elusive pass rushing DE/LB in the coming years. I don't doubt that it will help the secondary and the coverage schemes. I've always wanted to replicate the Pats' Seymour/Wilfork/Warren DL somehow, and maybe Wilkerson (6'5" 315 easy), Coples (6'6" 305), and Ellis (6'5" 335) is a step towards that.

[afosomf]

His entire program got blown up, and his stock fell accordingly. I don't know who's comparing him to JPP or Peppers, either. A very good DE is more valuable than an elite guard. If he's Shaun Ellis, he's a good pick.

the kid was playing for zillions, not the time to take a year off and cost himself 10 million

[afosomf]

Hmmm....I see.

Have to figure that they saw that an elite OL did nothing to make the offense elite while the Giants and Packers have recently won SBs without that. Then looking at how the Jets win games and making sure that stays a strength...It just made sense. The OL prospects were all solid...Mike Adams, DeCastro, Schwartz, and Glenn were all really nice talents, but none go towards fixing what really ails the Jets' offense.

I'm hoping the DL being stacked with a couple of 6'5+ 305+ guys on it, I'm sure it will make it a little easier to find that elusive pass rushing DE/LB in the coming years. I don't doubt that it will help the secondary and the coverage schemes. I've always wanted to replicate the Pats' Seymour/Wilfork/Warren DL somehow, and maybe Wilkerson (6'5" 315 easy), Coples (6'6" 305), and Ellis (6'5" 335) is a step towards that.

well it is clear to me coples was a rexey pick, and his career depends on it imo.

[SenorGato]

the kid was playing for zillions, not the time to take a year off and cost himself 10 million

He lost all of 2 sacks from his junior to senior year in college then went and wrecked sh*t at the Senior Bowl. Quite possibly the most overblown "no motor" call in recent memory after Williams in '06.

He'll make back that lost draft bonus money. He's in the right place for someone with his talents and has Trevor Pryce potential.

[JollyGreenGiant]

if the Jets draft Decastro, we are still making Wayne Hunter threads. Bottom line I don't think a right guard, left guard or right tackle is a good use of a first round pick for these Jets. they already have the best interior lineman in the world in Mangold. They already have a 3x Pro Bowl LT in Brick. Brandon Moore made his first pro bowl last year. The OL isn't as bad as people say. It's actually among the better units in the league (as long as Mangold stays healthy).

Our LT, C, and RG are fine but its the RT that should have us worried. Going from Woody to Hunter has downgraded our runblocking quite a bit. That unit is as good as it's worst part.

[RutgersJetFan]

How many Super Bowls did the greatest guard to ever play in the NFL win?

Steve Hutchinson is right there with him.

There's a reason five DEs came off the board before DeCastro. Guard is simply not an impact position. Not worthy of the 16th pick in the draft.

It's not so much the impact of the position as it is the disparity in talent. DL, CB, OT, even QB...the grades on guys at those positions are at premiums because a 1st rounder and 3rd rounder are so far apart it's insane. Positions like G, C, even S, not so much. The difference between a guard or center in the 1st or 2nd isn't going to be that large between ones you'll land in the 3rd or 4th. But there's a reason why guys like Mangold, Hutch, DeCastro, Pouncey...etc. still get graded accordingly and drafted high, they're scouted as game changers and having the rare ability of turning OG or C into an impact position. It's rare and it happens once or twice a draft, but it exists.

[RutgersJetFan]

if the Jets draft Decastro, we are still making Wayne Hunter threads. Bottom line I don't think a right guard, left guard or right tackle is a good use of a first round pick for these Jets. they already have the best interior lineman in the world in Mangold. They already have a 3x Pro Bowl LT in Brick. Brandon Moore made his first pro bowl last year. The OL isn't as bad as people say. It's actually among the better units in the league (as long as Mangold stays healthy).

Of course it's not a good idea. But we're hamstrung by Sanchez or hamstrung by any o-line that isn't All-World because of Sanchez. Not exactly the best plan to go all-in on the shoulders of your center, is it?

[#27TheDominator]

Cris Carter wasn't a #1 WR? He drafted the ****ing guy. Keith Jackson and Byars weren't legit offensive options? Guy went 10-6 and was canned. Classic overreaction of ownership probably bowing to a moronic fanbase. Sound familiar?

[T0mShane]

Guards and RT's can be found.

cc: Tannenbaum, Mike

[JustInFudge]

meh. I dont think there's such thing as a reach anymore. Plus the Jets were ready to take Bruce Irvin anwyays.

So if the Jets took Chris Rainey in the 1st round it wasnt a reach?

[Matt39]

So if the Jets took Chris Rainey in the 1st round it wasnt a reach?

if the Jets thought he was the best back on the board, why risk waiting?

Obviously if they did they need their heads examined, but I'd understand that type of pick if they were adamant that they thought he was the best player there.

Hell I wanted the Jets to take Ray Rice where they took Gholston. Too many first round picks bust for anyone to be considered a reach. If you trust your scouting, you're not worried about reaching.

[SenorGato]

If there's a Mangold/Pouncey/DeCastro in every draft (and it's damn close to that), why not just pick one up next year? Why is it so key to have one this year? Where does another good OLman put this team really? What of the cost of passing on a potentially premium DL talent with the potential to be an above average player against the pass?

[bitonti]

cc: Tannenbaum, Mike

theres a spreadsheet out there, Matt Waldman created it, that allows people to make their own team, under the constraint of a salary cap. Just for fun i tried to recreate the Jets. Ya know what I found? When you count Revis, Mangold, Brick, Harris, Cro, Pouha, Holmes, Landry, 2 first round picks at DL, and all the other top talent on this team (Pace, Scott), there isn't enough room for an Aaron Rodgers at QB. there isn't enough room for Adrian Peterson instead of Shonn Greene. Heck there isn't even enough room for a decent RT and decent LG with the talent they have.

People talk about how the OL needs to be better, but no one mentions that if the jets had 5 high paid OL, that another part of the team would be even thinner. Would we rather have a great RT and great LG instead of Revis? Cause that's the type of decisions Tannenbaum has to make. this is life in the salary cap era, you need to have cheap starters or you'll never get under the cap. Could they cut Pace and Scott and replace them with OL? It would be easier to never sign them in the first place. Now they are here you can't make those moves without making swaths of dead money.

[JustInFudge]

if the Jets thought he was the best back on the board, why risk waiting?

The same reason according to you they apparently had Greene graded out in the 1st and took him in the 3rd? Because its smart to use picks based on their projected slot and pick up other players along the way?

[dbatesman]

theres a spreadsheet out there, Matt Waldman created it, that allows people to make their own team, under the constraint of a salary cap. Just for fun i tried to recreate the Jets. Ya know what I found? When you count Revis, Mangold, Brick, Harris, Cro, Pouha, Holmes, Landry, 2 first round picks at DL, and all the other top talent on this team, there isn't enough room for an Aaron Rodgers at QB. there isn't enough room for Adrian Peterson instead of Shonn Greene. Heck there isn't even enough room for a decent RT and decent LG with the talent they have.

People talk about how the OL needs to be better, but no one mentions that if the jets had 5 high paid OL, that another part of the team would be even thinner. Would we rather have a great RT and great LG instead of Revis? Cause that's the type of decisions Tannenbaum has to make. this is life in the salary cap era, you need to have cheap starters or you'll never get under the cap.

Great. If he had any clue how to find a QB, he wouldn't need to pay such astronomical sums to keep the rest of those guys.

[Matt39]

The same reason according to you they apparently had Greene graded out in the 1st and took him in the 3rd? Because its smart to use picks based on their projected slot and pick up other players along the way?

that's kind of my point from the beginning. The Jets cant scout offense

this predates rex. We havent had a QB since Namath.

[bitonti]

Great. If he had any clue how to find a QB, he wouldn't need to pay such astronomical sums to keep the rest of those guys.

Finding a franchise QB is really hard. There's like 10 of these guys in the league and everyone else is playing catch up.

[REAMDE]

I believe he heard that, I don't believe it's true.

It seems true to me. It's probably true. And likely for the best anyway. Irvin is nearly 25 years old and a ****ing criminal to boot.

[dbatesman]

Finding a franchise QB is really hard. There's like 10 of these guys in the league and everyone else is playing catch up.

So we're supposed to grade everyone else on a curve, or what?

[Klecko73isGod]

Looked like pretty hack journalism

#1. How do you get "struggling" from "it's a lot tougher"? Typical hack journalism, exactly what i'd expect from ESPN.

#2. The Steelers don't like starting rookies unless they're 100% sure that they'll be good day one. Even if DeCastro has looked good I doubt they'd hand him the starting job before they've even played one preseason game. I expect him to be starting by the end of the preseason.

#3. Ramon Foster isn't some scrub he's a very good run blocker and solid in pass defense, he's not a bad...more

I didnt see Pitt game, but asked a follower of steelers how he looks so far.

Pretty well. I know that he flattened Fletcher Cox on one play that resulted in a big run. #DeCastro #Steelers

So this is hack journalism but similar stories about Coples work ethic in college were the epitome of award-winning journalism? Oh, I get it. When a story backs up your argument its just good, professional reporting but when it proves you wrong it's "hack journalism."

Get over yourself.

Bama sucks!

[bitonti]

So we're supposed to grade everyone else on a curve, or what?

the Jets got a franchise player it just happened to be a cornerback not a quarterback. I'm not saying it's right, but that's reality. If Mark doesn't pan out, Woody will probably fire Tanny.

[JustInFudge]

that's kind of my point from the beginning. The Jets cant scout offense

this predates rex. We havent had a QB since Namath.

Maybe I dont get your point then...because I think its pretty smart and is an indication the Jets know what they are doing in the draft if they have someone graded high but are able to get that pick later while adding other players along the way. IMO thats the definition of smart drafting.

And we just down right disagree about your opinion of the offense. Mangold, DBrick, Slauson, Leon, Smith, Keller, Kerley, Greene, McKnight - were all really good picks, especially if you base it on where they landed them in the draft. If Sanchez turns the corner, then the Jets fleeced the Browns for a franchise QB and if Hill turn out, the Jets have done a good job of drafting offensive talent. As of right now, the only clear miss is Vlad maybe Clemens to an extent, with Sanchez looking that way too...for now.

[JustInFudge]

So we're supposed to grade everyone else on a curve, or what?

No...but lets be honest. 3 of the best QB's in the league were found on pure luck. Brady was a 7th rounder. Rodgers was a late 1st who sat for 4 years, I think it safe to say the Packers didnt know they were getting the MVP of the league (though they did make the right decision going with him over Favre, so maybe not the best example) and how often do players like Brees hit the open market and become a HOF'er on their new team?

The rest of the great QB's, were first or 2nd overall picks. Lots of luck involved with finding a franchise QB.

[Matt39]

Maybe I dont get your point then...because I think its pretty smart and is an indication the Jets know what they are doing in the draft if they have someone graded high but are able to get that pick later while adding other players along the way. IMO thats the definition of smart drafting.

And we just down right disagree about your opinion of the offense. Mangold, DBrick, Slauson, Leon, Smith, Keller, Kerley, Greene, McKnight - were all really good picks, especially if you base it on where they landed them in the draft. If Sanchez turns the corner, then the Jets fleeced the Browns for a franchise QB and if Hill turn out, the Jets have done a good job of drafting offensive talent. As of right now, the only clear miss is Vlad maybe Clemens to an extent, with Sanchez looking that way too...for now.

How is Greene not a miss? You think he's good?

I swear its like Im watching a different sport.

How was McKnight a good pick? He doesnt play.

[RutgersJetFan]

Great. If he had any clue how to find a QB, he wouldn't need to pay such astronomical sums to keep the rest of those guys.

And even that aside, you know when this sh*t isn't a problem? When you don't consistently trade away mid rounders for guys who cost a billion dollars.

[Matt39]

Was the Cromartie trade unneccesary in your opinon?

[SenorGato]

Jets could have taken Stephen Hill, a prospect they really liked, at 16. Held off, landed arguably the draft's premiere DL talent, and still ended up with Hill. It cost them a 5th to do that.

[JustInFudge]

How is Greene not a miss? You think he's good?

I swear its like Im watching a different sport.

How was McKnight a good pick? He doesnt play.

Greene is a very good pick for the 3rd. Not only was he crucial in both playoff runs but whenever you have a player who can run for 1,000 yards and give you 30 receptions, while averaging 4.2 ypc, while playing behind a spotty OL and no threat at QB...I'd say that type of production out of a 3rd round pick is pretty damn good.

McKnight was a 4th rounder who was the best kick off return guy in the league. Is there no value in good field position? Especially for a sh*tty offense? And now that LT is gone, I'd expect to see more work on 3rd downs for him...so, yeah, once again, very good value for where they were selected.

[JustInFudge]

Jets could have taken Stephen Hill, a prospect they really liked, at 16. Held off, landed arguably the draft's premiere DL talent, and still ended up with Hill. It cost them a 5th to do that.

That sounds like a team that has no clue what they are doing in the draft.