JustInFudge Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 How does that stat back up anything? Because he's the only RB that did it? Circles. Thats what we talk in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Because he's the only RB that did it? Circles. Thats what we talk in. Finishing in the top 20 for 3 years in a row is hardly impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REAMDE Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Finishing in the top 20 for 3 years in a row is hardly impressive. Top 20 DVOA for 3 years in a row has identifiable quantifiable meaning. 'Impressive' doesn't. So you're right. They're hardly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Finishing in the top 20 for 3 years in a row is hardly impressive. Only player to do it. Yipeee!!! More circles. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Finishing in the top 20 for 3 years in a row is hardly impressive. No one said Greene was impressive. He's an average-to-above-average player. The argument is with your characterization of him as being terrible or garbage or the worst back in the league or whatever invective you're slinging his way this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Top 20 DVOA for 3 years in a row has identifiable quantifiable meaning. 'Impressive' doesn't. So you're right. They're hardly the same. Greene finished behind Jackie Battle last season in DVOA. I just went and checked Greene was 21st with a 2.2 DVOA. Start the parade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 top 20 in dvoa as a back 3 years in a row isnt exactly impressive. It sounds like a made up ESPN stat. That's a "made up ESPN stat" but yards after contact isn't? That isn't exactly an official stat. The fact is, Greene gained significantly more yards per carry than the team average in 2011 as the starter and 2009. In 2010 he did a bit worse than LT (0.10 of a yard) and considerably worse than the team average which (as the year before) was skewed by Brad Smith's success. "Yards after contact" sounds nice, but the fact is a RB should avoid contact and IMO it mostly just means he is running up the gut for 4 yards at a time, getting 1 or 2 after contact. What he is supposed to do. I fail to see how his failure to break any big runs is some kind of huge indictment when the guy has good ypc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 No one said Greene was impressive. He's an average-to-above-average player. The argument is with your characterization of him as being terrible or garbage or the worst back in the league or whatever invective you're slinging his way this week. When you're clinging to top 20 in DVOA for his first 3 seasons like it means anything....it sounds awfully similar to the 4 road playoff wins argument. I mean stop blowing Aaron Shatz for a second and watch Greene run. He runs like he has a paper bag over his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REAMDE Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 his failure to break any big runs Again, Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 That's a "made up ESPN stat" but yards after contact isn't? That isn't exactly an official stat. The fact is, Greene gained significantly more yards per carry than the team average in 2011 as the starter and 2009. In 2010 he did a bit worse than LT (0.10 of a yard) and considerably worse than the team average which (as the year before) was skewed by Brad Smith's success. "Yards after contact" sounds nice, but the fact is a RB should avoid contact and IMO it mostly just means he is running up the gut for 4 yards at a time, getting 1 or 2 after contact. What he is supposed to do. I fail to see how his failure to break any big runs is some kind of huge indictment when the guy has good ypc. DVOA is a good stat. When youre saying he finished top 20 his first three years...that's like saying Phil Hughes pitches well in day games in August. Who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 DVOA is a good stat. When youre saying he finished top 20 his first three years...that's like saying Phil Hughes pitches well in day games in August. Who cares? Educate me on DVOA. It's some kind of value assigned for time on the field or replacement value, right? Top 20 does not sound like it makes him a home run draft pick, but it's not exactly bad territory for a third rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REAMDE Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 DVOA is a good a good stat. When youre saying he finished top 20 his first three years...that's like saying Phil Hughes pitches well in day games in August. Who cares? It's more like saying that Shonn Greene is consistently above-average on a per-play basis while playing on a team that has Mark Sanchez at quarterback and against the defensive fronts that that entails, which is actually fairly impressive to everyone who is able to conceptualize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I mean stop blowing Aaron Shatz for a second Hitting all your spots today. Once you make the tranny crack, I've got bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 It's more like saying that Shonn Greene is consistently above-average on a per-play basis while playing on a team that has Mark Sanchez at quarterback and against the defensive fronts that that entails, which is actually fairly impressive to everyone who is able to conceptualize it. He finsihed 17th, 10th and 21st in DVOA over his first 3 years. That actually rounds out to exactly average. But you are also held hostage by DVOA and its the only stat that matters to you, so whatever. edit- Greenes rookie season he was 19th in DVOA. He performed slightly above average with an all world offensive line. Jones actually graded out even worse. Hell the 2009 Jets have a great back...who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Hitting all your spots today. Once you make the tranny crack, I've got bingo. Not afraid to go up against the 3 bullies. I got thick skin. No worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REAMDE Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 He finsihed 17th, 10th and 21st in DVOA over his first 3 years. That actually rounds out to exactly average. Yes, exactly average assuming that you are for some reason dividing by the number of teams in the league rather than by the number of running backs with a hundred carries in a given year. Boooring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Yes, exactly average assuming that you are for some reason dividing by the number of teams in the league rather than by the number of running backs with a hundred carries in a given year. Boooring. That's not what I did though. And you're initial point of him finishing top 20 wasnt even accurate, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 No one said Greene was impressive. He's an average-to-above-average player. The argument is with your characterization of him as being terrible or garbage or the worst back in the league or whatever invective you're slinging his way this week. Thank you! Why do some people see everything in black and white terms? Matt, saying Greene is an overachiever or saying that he is better than you think isn't remotely the same as saying he is a great running back. I agree that Greene isn't great. I also disagree that he sucks. He's somewhere in between the two extremes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 DVOA is a good stat. When youre saying he finished top 20 his first three years...that's like saying Phil Hughes pitches well in day games in August. Who cares? Teams who have to face him in day games in August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Teams who have to face him in day games in August. btw I had a feeling Melky was cheating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REAMDE Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 That's not what I did though. And you're initial point of him finishing top 20 wasnt even accurate, Okay. What did you do to determine that top 20 out of the 50 or so guys that get 100 carries in a given year is not above average? And why does the fact that he was 21st instead of 20th one year matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Okay. What did you do to determine that top 20 out of the 50 or so guys that get 100 carries in a given year is not above average? And why does the fact that he was 21st instead of 20th one year matter? lol, because you were barking about him finishing in the top 20 his first three seasons as some sort of accomplishment. And hell my eyes suck, Greene finished 25th last season in DVOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REAMDE Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 lol, because you were barking about him finishing in the top 20 his first three seasons as some sort of accomplishment. And hell my eyes suck, Greene finished 25th last season in DVOA. Considering they were also Sanchez's first three seasons, of course it's an accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 The problem with the running game the Jets is Sanchez. Fixed. Good to be back, old friends... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Hitting all your spots today. Once you make the tranny crack, I've got bingo. Think you may win this one. Last box I need is where he lectures everyone on what people should and shouldn't get offended about. And we don't have any threads about Islam or child rape going today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 And we don't have any threads about Islam or child rape going today. You want me to start an "Underrated Comedy: The Kite Runner" thread to kill two birds with one stone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 RJF sending out the bat signal. Good lord. What a whining silver spooned douchebag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 RJF sending out the bat signal. Good lord. What a whining silver spooned douchebag. I like JiF's pet name for him better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Educate me on DVOA. It's some kind of value assigned for time on the field or replacement value, right? Top 20 does not sound like it makes him a home run draft pick, but it's not exactly bad territory for a third rounder. Defense Adjusted Value Over Average. It breaks down how much success a player or unit achieves in specific situations compared to the league averages in those situations. Some situations are worth more than others. So basically, it measures actual success against expected success. League average is standardized at 0%. Negative is good for defense, positive is good for offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I like JiF's pet name for him better. JIF told me to say that but hell, continue to try and bait me with the Kite Runner or perhaps Sandusky's new book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 RJF sending out the bat signal. Good lord. What a whining silver spooned douchebag. Lighten up, Andre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I like JiF's pet name for him better. What, Pussy Faggot??? Its potent, I know. Silverspoon dbag is pretty accurate though. Guess I'm not invited to his Fantasy Football League this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REAMDE Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Fixed. I did mean the running game specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I like JiF's pet name for him better. Reese Witherspoon? (Fear jokes FTW). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Lighten up, Andre. what you start insinuating pro child rape..yeah idk if you are kidding or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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