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Question: Why are all the regulars here so anti-Jets?


pointman

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and the direction we are headed.. they don't belong here. These are good, exciting times. I can't understand "fans" who don't see that.

What proof do you have that we are "headed" in a good direction. Evidence shows we are trending downward. I think we'll be better than last year, but Quinton Coples is pretty much the only (potential) improvement we have to go on right now.

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What proof do you have that we are "headed" in a good direction. Evidence shows we are trending downward. I think we'll be better than last year, but Quinton Coples is pretty much the only (potential) improvement we have to go on right now.

Sanchez in his fourth year should be an improvement if the line can block for him. The speed on D seems to be improved. There is no true evidence for either opinion.

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Sanchez in his fourth year should be an improvement if the line can block for him. The speed on D seems to be improved. There is no true evidence for either opinion.

We've heard the same thing about Sanchez every year. And, though sample size is tiny, there's been no evidence of improvement yet.

Defense looks to be improved, but the biggest problem with the defense last year IMO was the offenses excessive 3-and-outs.

Regardless of what happens, point being, it's not so crazy to think things aren't any better right now.

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We've heard the same thing about Sanchez every year. And, though sample size is tiny, there's been no evidence of improvement yet.

Defense looks to be improved, but the biggest problem with the defense last year IMO was the offenses excessive 3-and-outs.

Regardless of what happens, point being, it's not so crazy to think things aren't any better right now.

There are a lot of NFL QB's that would like to win one playoff game. Last year's O-line was horrific and the wideouts quit if they weren't the first look. He needs weapons and protection.

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What proof do you have that we are "headed" in a good direction. Evidence shows we are trending downward. I think we'll be better than last year, but Quinton Coples is pretty much the only (potential) improvement we have to go on right now.

We went from sh*t to two consecutive AFC Championship games. Yes, last year was a flop. But I think overall we are moving forward in a good light. Every few steps forward is met with a step backwards. Before Rex, we weren't doing too hot in recent times.
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I suspect you're the one focusing on the negative. No one here is negative about everything, and many posters are positive about practically everything. If you don't agree with a point someone is making, make the counterpoint.

I can promise you that threads like this won't get you anywhere, though.

Not at all! I am a pretty happy dude. And I laugh at much of the negative posted. But as a newer member here I just see that most stuff is met with such negativity even the most trivial stuff, and even steps towards good moves. I do try to make counterpoints, but lets be real... when its just negative Nancy trolling there is no point in doing that. I hope you can see what posts I am talking about. Its not just me who sees it, its prevalent.

This thread wasn't made to upset so many. It was just a legit question, light hearted. I didn't mean to change the rotating axis of the Earth. I am still smiling over here, so if some people got butt hurt, oh well. I guess written word doesn't express actual attitude.

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I'm with you Pointman, I can be down on the Jets after 30 Years (personally) of routing for them, but some of the negativity on here at times make the Legendary "PatsTX" seem like a blind Jets homer...

Yeah man. I am just trying to say the gimmick of pissing on the Jets constantly is old.
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We went from sh*t to two consecutive AFC Championship games. Yes, last year was a flop. But I think overall we are moving forward in a good light. Every few steps forward is met with a step backwards. Before Rex, we weren't doing too hot in recent times.

Those AFC Championships weren't out of nowhere. We'd been building towards that even with Mangini. In 2008, had Favre not gotten hurt, we had a real shot. The concern is that we missed our window and that flop wasn't a fluke.

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Those AFC Championships weren't out of nowhere. We'd been building towards that even with Mangini. In 2008, had Favre not gotten hurt, we had a real shot. The concern is that we missed our window and that flop wasn't a fluke.

How exactly did the window close? Losing Kris Jenkins? Leon Washington? Brad Smith? Lito Sheppard? Alen Faneca? Bart Scott is not as good anymore?

If the window closed, there has to be a reason as far as the personnel is concerned. I don't see it.

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How exactly did the window close? Losing Kris Jenkins? Leon Washington? Brad Smith? Lito Sheppard? Alen Faneca? Bart Scott is not as good anymore?

If the window closed, there has to be a reason as far as the personnel is concerned. I don't see it.

All the LBs have taken a step back. As ridiculous as it is, we've never really effectively replaced Rhodes. No replacement for Woody. Sanchez not panning out. Very few developing mid-round players.

But, the real issue is that all of that is happening while we're in salary cap trouble.

That said, if Sanchez takes 2 giant leaps forward, this is a great team. I just don't see it though.

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All the LBs have taken a step back. As ridiculous as it is, we've never really effectively replaced Rhodes. No replacement for Woody. Sanchez not panning out. Very few developing mid-round players.

But, the real issue is that all of that is happening while we're in salary cap trouble.

That said, if Sanchez takes 2 giant leaps forward, this is a great team. I just don't see it though.

If Sanchez takes one step forward, I believe that is all this team needs to get it done. A big step but you know what I am saying. They need good play out of the QB position. A lot of teams need great play.

This defense is going to be the best that the Jets have had in a long time. The knock on the LBers is a good one. Two things that should help that is the new safety tandem and Demario Davis. The 4 man line could actually help the LBers as well, as it seems the Jets are actually considering generating a pass rush from the line now.

Getting rid of Kerry Rhodes really made no sense. They make some puzzling roster moves, I am with you on a lot of that. I just believe they are close...

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All the LBs have taken a step back. As ridiculous as it is, we've never really effectively replaced Rhodes. No replacement for Woody. Sanchez not panning out. Very few developing mid-round players.

But, the real issue is that all of that is happening while we're in salary cap trouble.

That said, if Sanchez takes 2 giant leaps forward, this is a great team. I just don't see it though.

Your last statement says it all. I don't think any of the items on the defensive side are all that much of an issue. I think the problem is that, as you said, QB is still an issue and in the meantime, the rest of the offense isn't able to compensate for that as well as they once did. Part of that is that the talent isn't what it once was, particularly on the OL, while the other part is the lack of quality QB play has given opposing defenses less reason to worry about how they play the Jets.

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If Sanchez takes one step forward, I believe that is all this team needs to get it done. A big step but you know what I am saying. They need good play out of the QB position. A lot of teams need great play.

This defense is going to be the best that the Jets have had in a long time. The knock on the LBers is a good one. Two things that should help that is the new safety tandem and Demario Davis. The 4 man line could actually help the LBers as well, as it seems the Jets are actually considering generating a pass rush from the line now.

Getting rid of Kerry Rhodes really made no sense. They make some puzzling roster moves, I am with you on a lot of that. I just believe they are close...

I really believe in the DLine and what they are trying to do there. "It all starts up front", cliche as it may be. But, too soon to say about Demario Davis and I'm not sure I agree with the Safety moves. I like Landry, but what does that do for us as far as a coverage safety. A better Eric Smith doesn't do much to stop the biggest issue we face, which is covering TEs.

Where we apparently really differ though is in thoughts on QB play. I think great QB play wins, not good. I think the Jets have a championship caliber team (if healthy, and that's a problem because of all the trades and some poor drafting we have 0 depth at certain positions) but we see championship caliber teams lose year after year to better QBs. I think Sanchez is all that stands in our way between championship, but that that is the biggest issue, and we've seen nothing to demonstrate that he can come close to a top tier QB.

The other problem is due to the drafting, and trades. We're in poor shape via the cap, and are going to be limited going forward in what we can do. We've got some bad contracts and limited young talent. If all our rookies pan out this year, it'll be a good start, but when does that happen?

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A QB having 1.3 compared to having 2.8 seconds is a big difference. Playoff wins is a better way to see what a qb is capable of, Romo.

Is there data to support time to throw? And, a look at playoff wins by QB would quickly quiet that argument.

Trent Dilfer = Drew Brees = Jake Delhomme = Craig Morton = Danny White = Mark Brunell > Mark Sanchez = Aaron Rodgers = Brad Johnson = Otto Graham > Joe Namath = Chad Pennington

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How exactly did the window close? Losing Kris Jenkins? Leon Washington? Brad Smith? Lito Sheppard? Alen Faneca? Bart Scott is not as good anymore?

If the window closed, there has to be a reason as far as the personnel is concerned. I don't see it.

To me it is the guys that have replaced the likes of Thomas Jones, Tony Richardson, Damien Woody, Braylon Edwards not stepping up that makes me think the window is closing fast.

Throw those in there along with a QB that looked mentally destroyed by the end of the season last year. An owner that seems more worried about the back pages of the newspapers and selling PSL's, the whole Tebow fiasco and I see plenty of reason why I think the Jets will struggle again this year.

Does that make me "anti-Jet" ?

No: I'll still root for them the same way I have for nearly 40 years.

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A QB having 1.3 compared to having 2.8 seconds is a big difference. Playoff wins is a better way to see what a qb is capable of, Romo.

Over the last 3 years, the only QB's (that had enough attempts to qualify for passer rating) that had a longer mean sack time than Sanchez were Roethlisberger, Freeman, Cassel, and Flacco. His propensity to hold onto the ball for too long is just as much, if not more, at fault than the OL when it comes to sacks.

He was worst in the league in 2010 at 3.6 seconds. For reference, that's a full second longer than Eli Manning that same season. It's no wonder that Eli also had the best passer rating "under pressure". Sanchez's poor decision making in the face of pressure is one of his biggest faults.

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Is there data to support time to throw? And, a look at playoff wins by QB would quickly quiet that argument.

Trent Dilfer = Drew Brees = Jake Delhomme = Craig Morton = Danny White = Mark Brunell > Mark Sanchez = Aaron Rodgers = Brad Johnson = Otto Graham > Joe Namath = Chad Pennington

Yep, the speed of the pressure is meaningless. Schotty have anything to do with this?

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Those AFC Championships weren't out of nowhere. We'd been building towards that even with Mangini. In 2008, had Favre not gotten hurt, we had a real shot. The concern is that we missed our window and that flop wasn't a fluke.

What flop? The 8-8 season we had last year? The team was 8-5 and it took a Mark Sanchez collapse to not make the playoffs, which the team still technically had a shot in Week 17. And as we saw with the 9-7 Giants, the regular season means very little. They were a mediocre team who got hot at the right time.

The same team as last year with half the turnovers is easily a 10 win team. Easily. And while I keep hearing we havent addressed this, or improved here, that not necessarily true. They've addressed every major concern this offseason except maybe an in-line TE. Whether you think the moves they made were adequate enough is a debate, but they've made changes.

Also, there is something to be said about consistency and how it builds continuity . Meaning, while the Jets may not have upgraded at RT....I dont think its a major stretch to see Hunter take it up a notch and return to his '10 caliber play with another year under his belt as a starter, with a full offseason, in a power blocking scheme that favors his strengths.

And personally, I like the commitment to the skills positions instead of the stop gaps or overpaying for FA's. I believe Greene, McKnight, Powell, Turner and Kerley can all contribute on offense. Overpaying for guys like Garcon or Robinson would have been foolish.

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Is there data to support time to throw? And, a look at playoff wins by QB would quickly quiet that argument.

Trent Dilfer = Drew Brees = Jake Delhomme = Craig Morton = Danny White = Mark Brunell > Mark Sanchez = Aaron Rodgers = Brad Johnson = Otto Graham > Joe Namath = Chad Pennington

I could do nothing but just laugh at this post.

That sure is... something.

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Yep, the speed of the pressure is meaningless. Schotty have anything to do with this?

The question was, do you have any data to support the fact that Sanchez is, on average, under faster pressure than other QBs?

I ask with genuine interest.

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What flop? The 8-8 season we had last year? The team was 8-5 and it took a Mark Sanchez collapse to not make the playoffs, which the team still technically had a shot in Week 17. And as we saw with the 9-7 Giants, the regular season means very little. They were a mediocre team who got hot at the right time.

The same team as last year with half the turnovers is easily a 10 win team. Easily. And while I keep hearing we havent addressed this, or improved here, that not necessarily true. They've addressed every major concern this offseason except maybe an in-line TE. Whether you think the moves they made were adequate enough is a debate, but they've made changes.

Also, there is something to be said about consistency and how it builds continuity . Meaning, while the Jets may not have upgraded at RT....I dont think its a major stretch to see Hunter take it up a notch and return to his '10 caliber play with another year under his belt as a starter, with a full offseason, in a power blocking scheme that favors his strengths.

And personally, I like the commitment to the skills positions instead of the stop gaps or overpaying for FA's. I believe Greene, McKnight, Powell, Turner and Kerley can all contribute on offense. Overpaying for guys like Garcon or Robinson would have been foolish.

The Giants were an injured team who got healthy at the right time too. Not just hot. As for their record, I will still maintain that the Jets did not beat a winning team last year, or beat just one. So, yeah, their record was 8-8, but to win in this league, you need to stack up well against the best teams. The Jets did not last year.

Sure, eliminate 10 turnovers... How many teams could you say that about though? Every team would be much better w/ 10 less turnovers. However, we have one of the leagues most turnover prone QBs. It is what it is.

I don't think we should be overpaying guys either. I think we need to develop our guys. The problem is, we're not drafting that many guys to develop. You don't think this has caught up with us?

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Over the last 3 years, the only QB's (that had enough attempts to qualify for passer rating) that had a longer mean sack time than Sanchez were Roethlisberger, Freeman, Cassel, and Flacco. His propensity to hold onto the ball for too long is just as much, if not more, at fault than the OL when it comes to sacks.

He was worst in the league in 2010 at 3.6 seconds. For reference, that's a full second longer than Eli Manning that same season. It's no wonder that Eli also had the best passer rating "under pressure". Sanchez's poor decision making in the face of pressure is one of his biggest faults.

In other words, the data suggests the exact opposite.

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The question was, do you have any data to support the fact that Sanchez is, on average, under faster pressure than other QBs?

I ask with genuine interest.

Sorry, no I do not. He was getting hit on 3 step drops for 7 yard slants numerous times. I think he was she'll shocked after getting his azz kicked in the Cowboy game. I honestly believe Shotty's predictable play calling was a major factor as well.

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I don't think we should be overpaying guys either. I think we need to develop our guys. The problem is, we're not drafting that many guys to develop. You don't think this has caught up with us?

It's only caught up to us because we don't have a QB. Belichick drafts tons and tons of busts and very few guys who actually develops into players. But he has Brady and we don't. Maybe some of the guys we have on O would be seen in a better light if we had a middle-of-the-pack QB rather than a bottom-5 QB.

And FWIW, we've developed D-Line guys just fine. We'll see if Davis or of these safeties end up players on D.

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Sorry, no I do not. He was getting hit on 3 step drops for 7 yard slants numerous times. I think he was she'll shocked after getting his azz kicked in the Cowboy game. I honestly believe Shotty's predictable play calling was a major factor as well.

I'm no Schotty fan, but I asked because it was my understanding that, as Hector posted, that Sanchez actually had more time to throw or until the sack.

My feeling on Sanchez has always been, that he barely played in college, and played in a system where he never got hit and his WRs were always open. I don't think he has the pocket awareness or the field vision to play in difficult situations. Now that he's facing that, I just don't think he's good enough. I think the NFL game is way too fast for him.

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It's only caught up to us because we don't have a QB. Belichick drafts tons and tons of busts and very few guys who actually develops into players. But he has Brady and we don't. Maybe some of the guys we have on O would be seen in a better light if we had a middle-of-the-pack QB rather than a bottom-5 QB.

And FWIW, we've developed D-Line guys just fine. We'll see if Davis or of these safeties end up players on D.

That I agree with. I was thinking more along the lines of O-line depth. Seems like other teams always have solid players waiting to step in. They're not 1st rounders, but they've been developed over the years. But, we want to be a power run team, so we need these guys.

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